Then it depends on who is more social focused, the offender or the defender.

A great person being lead to ruin after they were seduced by a someone they should have been more careful of is a classical trope after.
Certainly, though most such examples have the unfortunate great person actually be attracted to the seducer, making it a known risk, rather than something completely foreign and alien to their personal identity forcing it's way in with magic.
 
I'm not the one who wrote the charms that let you seduce someone regardless of sexual preference, so don't bitch at me about it.
Not what I was addressing; you asserted that being seduced makes one's sexual orientation change. Saying it does is drawing on the same awful gross bullshit that "fucking them straight" does.

Honestly, the game line should have expanded a few Unacceptable Orders but by rules as written the social combat system is all kinds of gross.
Actually, violating sexual orientation is an unacceptable order in 3E.
 
This is not how sexual orientation works, and in fact it's working off of some pretty gross tropes.

I do not find men attractive. That said, if you handed me a pill that made me sexually attracted to men, I'd eat it, because that's just the sort of person I am. In a similar vein, if some guy hit me with a magic spell that made me attracted to him, AND I CONSENTED TO HAVING THAT SPELL CAST ON ME, I wouldn't mind.

(This is an anecdote; I'm not implying anyone else feels this way.)

As someone who is deeply in love with the transhumanist themes inherent in the Infernal powerset, I think that being able to alter the sexual orientation of yourself and others is an interesting topic worth exploring. Additionally I would say that altering someones sexual orientation is, morally speaking, no different than any other sort of mind-control. Evil, yes, but so is murder, and PC's do that all the time too.
 
As someone who is deeply in love with the transhumanist themes inherent in the Infernal powerset, I think that being able to alter the sexual orientation of yourself and others is an interesting topic worth exploring.
Sure.

"I fucked them that makes them straight/allo/whatever" is not an exploration worth considering, because fuck that noise. You don't responsibly explore IRL subjects by taking negative and false narratives around people who are discriminated against and making them literally true.
 
If I remember correctly, different orientation give -5 penalty, yes? It's fairly hefty, but not insurmountable if you're Exalt.
 
Hrm, that does bring up a question. Since being Asexual would make you immune to seduction attempts from any gender, is asexuality OP? Should it require a merit or charm or something to balance out it's benefits?
Bluntly put; no it doesn't. It makes you immune to sexual seduction attempts. Since - once again - seduction has very little to do with actually having sex, and indeed isn't necessarily related to sexuality at all.
seduce
sɪˈdjuːs
verb
verb: seduce; 3rd person present: seduces; past tense: seduced; past participle: seduced; gerund or present participle: seducing
  1. attract (someone) to a belief or into a course of action that is inadvisable or foolhardy.
synonyms: attract, allure, lure, tempt, entice, beguile, cajole, wheedle, ensnare, charm, captivate, enchant, hypnotize, mesmerize, tantalize, titillate, bewitch, ravish, inveigle, lead astray, trap
So how you actually handle asexuality or differing orientations is to say "yup, seducing them with sex is inapplicable" and then just seduce them with something else, for fuck's sake. Promises of power or wealth. Companionship and a trustworthy confidant. Exquisite food, beautiful music, eloquent storytelling. If the only way you can seduce someone is by waving tits in their face, you are a pretty shit socialite; there are hundreds of drives and desires that dictate what humans want. If sex is non-viable, a socialite worth the term will just switch to another quality they want and seduce them with that. And frankly, I'd write "seduction" Charms with that in mind, so that they never specify sex, and are just as applicable to seducing someone using their desire for the crown or a big bag of money as with flashes of thigh and smoky bedroom eyes.
 
Bluntly put; no it doesn't. It makes you immune to sexual seduction attempts. Since - once again - seduction has very little to do with actually having sex, and indeed isn't necessarily related to sexuality at all.

So how you actually handle asexuality or differing orientations is to say "yup, seducing them with sex is inapplicable" and then just seduce them with something else, for fuck's sake. Promises of power or wealth. Companionship and a trustworthy confidant. Exquisite food, beautiful music, eloquent storytelling. If the only way you can seduce someone is by waving tits in their face, you are a pretty shit socialite; there are hundreds of drives and desires that dictate what humans want. If sex is non-viable, a socialite worth the term will just switch to another quality they want and seduce them with that. And frankly, I'd write "seduction" Charms with that in mind, so that they never specify sex, and are just as applicable to seducing someone using their desire for the crown or a big bag of money as with flashes of thigh and smoky bedroom eyes.
On one hand, I'm glad someone brought up the point that seduction doesn't have to be sexual. (IIRC, of the WW games, Changeling was the one that pointed it out.)
On the other, I think "Just use a different approach!" isn't doing the Solar "dodge the undodgeable, detect the undetectable, apply the inapplicable" justice (when talking about those without Perfect Defences, anyway).
 
Yes, and I will once again bring up the fact that - to address @vali's point at the same time - being murdered is comparatively unlikely, especially in the context that Exalted frames it, while the possibility of being raped or sexually assaulted is a much clearer and more present reality for many of the players, and thus perhaps it might just possibly be an idea to steer away from territory like "I don't care about your sexual orientation or attraction to me, I'm going to have sex with you anyway by using mind-altering substances magic". And that this is not necessarily hypocritical in a game that also includes swording people to death. You don't have to categorically deny it's possible for Solars to do, you can just not go there in the books and also write tools that mean you don't need to do it. I'd personally say this is a much better tactic than "dodge the undodgeable, rape the unseduceable".

We are, as a culture, somewhat desensitised to violence. Call that good, bad or irrelevant, but it remains true. It's a recurring theme in vast swathes of our entertainment media; our films, our books, our games, etcetera.

The same does not hold true for rape.
 
Hey Thread, it's that time again!

Founder's Hauberk
Artifact 5
Attune: 10m

There is a kingdom that rises above the muggy swamps of the far south-east. Wide bright sandstone pavers stretch for hundreds of yards, rising in a sprawling ziggurat that stands miles across. It is a holy city, and though it lacks the fame of Whitewall, it has its own glory.

Central to this nation is the temple, where the gods of still waters, reeds, soil, earth and sky gather. Together this clique of once-petty gods agreed to stand by their mortal charges. A hero approached them, moved by the divine magnanimity. She was no warrior or courtier, but an armorer. Blessed by the gods, she crafted a bulwark against all who would threaten their people.

The Founder's Hauberk is that defense. This artifact is an ornate suit of Superheavy Plate, wrought of Orichalcum and White Jade. It was made by a hero for a hero to be. So treasured is the Hauberk, that it is worshiped in the same breath as the gods of the land. All temples to the gods spare a space for its own shrine, and begrudge no offerings made to the armor. Thousands make pilgrimage to its sacred armory every year, giving thanks to the legacy of heroes who wore it. Every breastplate in the land bears its symbol, a worn altar to this wonder's glory.

Before attunement, merely wearing armor increases the wearer's Appearance by 4 dots, to a maximum of 10. The artifact also restores youth and vitality, returning the wearer to their prime condition and healing any natural crippling, sickness or poison effects. Those blessed by it age normally but with utmost grace, rarely adding more than ten years to a natural lifespan.

When one attunes to the armor for ten motes, they gain a supernal awareness of the kingdom. Danger and threats are felt as a tingling hum against the skin, and the armor is tugged towards danger like a lodestone.

This grants a perfect awareness of the approach and direction of any knowingly hostile force, such as ravaging fae, mortal armies, or a natural disaster. This effect functions anywhere in Creation, though it is only often useful if the wearer is near the kingdom. The armor unfortunately cannot sense individuals such as assassins or small groups of infiltrators.

So long as the wearer remains within the bounds of the kingdom (and its territory has changed over the years), they may run or jump anywhere in that region within five minutes. The land protects the wearer, so they cannot suffer fall damage or other environmental pitfalls that are not authored by another character within the kingdom.

The wearer's strength is enhanced as well- when throwing a character or object after a successful clinch, the wearer may elect to fling them three seasons hard march away from the border. During warfare, it was said the Hauberk could lift whole battlefields and expel armies.

In mechanical terms, any character thrown by the artifact's wielder is sent at least 500 miles past the kingdom's borders, landing wherever the Storyteller deems appropriate. In Mass Combat, the wearer can, with three Speed 5 Clinch Attacks, lift and throw hunk of earth or rock large enough to encompass a Magnitude 5 unit upon it. This unique feat fails if the targeted unit is further than 250 yards away from the wearer at the end of the third action. These effects are incompatible with Charms or other magic that enhances throws.

The results of these feats of strength are best left as an exercise to the Storyteller. Though as a general rule, it would require a Difficulty 5 roll to recover from, likely using Athletics or Resistance before other magic. It's reasonable to assume that anything flung this way suffers from fall damage at terminal velocity, though the Hauberk does not actually enhance this damage either.
 
So long as the wearer remains within the bounds of the kingdom (and its territory has changed over the years)
What's meant by this; the original bounds of the kingdom or the new ones? Because I rather like the thought that it only works in the original boundaries of the kingdom that were set down and ingrained into the artifact's essence patterns when it was made, and that the kingdom has expanded since through the power of this incredible wonder keeping their core territory safe, but it doesn't work in their outlying lands. And there's a very large effort to keep this fact secret from anyone who might abuse it.
 
What's meant by this; the original bounds of the kingdom or the new ones? Because I rather like the thought that it only works in the original boundaries of the kingdom that were set down and ingrained into the artifact's essence patterns when it was made, and that the kingdom has expanded since through the power of this incredible wonder keeping their core territory safe, but it doesn't work in their outlying lands. And there's a very large effort to keep this fact secret from anyone who might abuse it.

When I wrote it, I intended it to be the newer borders, as to encourage a more conquest behavior- but to be perfectly honest, both approaches are evocative! I don't really want to overburden this with variant clauses, but I encourage anyone to take these things and tweak them to fit their own views.
 
Bluntly put; no it doesn't. It makes you immune to sexual seduction attempts. Since - once again - seduction has very little to do with actually having sex, and indeed isn't necessarily related to sexuality at all.

So how you actually handle asexuality or differing orientations is to say "yup, seducing them with sex is inapplicable" and then just seduce them with something else, for fuck's sake. Promises of power or wealth. Companionship and a trustworthy confidant. Exquisite food, beautiful music, eloquent storytelling. If the only way you can seduce someone is by waving tits in their face, you are a pretty shit socialite; there are hundreds of drives and desires that dictate what humans want. If sex is non-viable, a socialite worth the term will just switch to another quality they want and seduce them with that. And frankly, I'd write "seduction" Charms with that in mind, so that they never specify sex, and are just as applicable to seducing someone using their desire for the crown or a big bag of money as with flashes of thigh and smoky bedroom eyes.

Hell, asexual doesn't even mean aromantic. So you could even end up in a relationship with them to get what you want in at least some cases. It just, you know, wouldn't be a sexual relationship. Boo hoo. The world weeps for the Exalted. Tears of blood.
 
Fun fact! I went to the LAM [1] yesterday. And, well... my thought trains were set on certain predictable paths. And then this happened [2]. Commentary below the writeup:

Collar of Semastri
Artifact 3, Special Attune (mutual 4-dot Principles of love)
Who was Semastri? None can say, for only their name survives in the Age of Sorrows. But some light may be shed on their tastes by the artifact named for them. The Collar of Semastri is ancient beyond imagination - thought to date from before the Shogunate. An intricately patterned fabric band with a golden clasp, it is woven from threads of trust and submission; concepts made manifest through long-lost arts. When attuned by a couple whose love for one another is strong enough, it can be placed around the neck of one willing partner and sealed. As soon as the clasp locks, the collar sinks into its wearer's skin, becoming a tattoo that mirrors the beautiful knotted patterns and interwoven threads of the fabric. Should their love falter, it will deattune automatically.

Once on, the collar cannot be removed by characters other than the wearer or owner without the aid of powerful magic. Either partner may reflexively interrupt its effects at any time, ignoring any mental influence that would stop them from doing so. This does not come without cost - deactivating the collar for a scene causes both partners to lose 1wp from psychic shock, while reflexively breaking attunement without properly removing it causes a 3wp backlash. Should either partner not have sufficient temporary willpower to pay this cost, they take points of bashing damage instead.

Safewording in this way is not usually necessary, though. Under normal circumstances, the collar grants four boons to the partners who make use of it:
  • Should one partner have a longer lifespan, the other ages physically at the same rate. Their own longevity is not increased, but they will remain outwardly young until they die.
  • The collar is connected to an immaterial leash that leads to the owner's hand; visible to the couple and any other characters that can see the immaterial. The bearing and brightness of this ribbon of light indicate the direction and distance to each partner, allowing the couple to always find their way to one another. Anti-scrying wards interrupt the leash and prevent any powers that function through it.
  • Within a radius of (master's Enlightenment x 10) metres, the leash is strong enough that the couple may communicate silently through thought and feeling - though their words are audible to those who can hear the immaterial. At this distance, the couple may take mental Defend Other actions for one another as though the defender was the target of any mental influence directed at their partner.
  • Additionally, within this radius the attuned owner's will can subjugate their submissive's. The owner can freely subject the wearer to Compulsions and sensory Illusions - orders that must be obeyed, phantom touches or vivid waking fantasies. Unacceptable orders may not be given in this manner, and the Compulsions cannot prevent the wearer from reflexively breaking the collar's bond.

So yeah, I am pretty sure I worked out the balance and costs for this. It uses the Principle system, and 4-dot Principles are not cheap - that's "you killed my father; prepare to die" or "Tristain and Isolde" level territory; most social magic can only create 2- or 3-dot stuff without considerable effort applied. The dominant also has to care as much about the sub as the sub does about them, which limits potential abuse a bit more, and the safeword is baked in - the sub can always shatter the link; nothing can stop that (though then there's sub/top-drop and both need to be cuddled to regain wp).

I originally had trouble with mechanical balance, but eventually fixed the "socialite puts it on a fighty person and handles their MDV" problem by a) range-limiting it, b) making it interruptible by anti-scrying wards and most importantly c) making the leash a giant obvious glowing ribbon pointing to where the socialite is so that people can go stab them if they're trying to hide. So no hiding in a cave and sending your sub out to do stuff for you; you need to stay close and be findable and stabable. Rating-wise, it's pretty niche/narrow-focus and requires a willing subject, so 3 dots. Thanks to @Shyft for advice on that point as well as suggesting Special Attunement for the cost (though the Principles were my idea~).

So, that all said; whee magic D/s collar, yay. :p

[1] London Alternative Market - much kinky, many sexy, very fetish, wow.
[2] I'm not sorry. : 3
 
I never really saw the "transhuman" thing with Infernal Exalted. I'm curious what everyone bases this off.

Largely it's the large number of permanent Charms in the Charmtrees that make some sweeping adjustments to the Infernal's mentality or physical existence. An Infernal, more than any other type of Exalt, stops being human in mindset at some point, and becomes something beyond the human they were.

And they can't turn it back, nor is it very possible to advance much in their Charmtrees without taking on at least one such Charm.
 
Lehereca Va, the Tangerine Usurer
Demon of the Second Circle
Warden Soul of the Garden of Avarice


Upon many layers of Malfeas, there you will find citadels of black basalt with great doors of living wood painted a bright orange. Fruit-bearing trees grow along the battlements, weaving together to cover the compounds. This does not shade them against the light of the mad green sun, but it does serve to protect the wealth within, for these are the countinghouses of Lehereca Va.

The Tangerine Usurer is one of the leading bankers of hell and has fought tooth and nail for his position. Should one of the demon lords wish to fund a great war against a rival, they might go to Lehereca Va and exchange some words, lay down some holdings - or perhaps a great artefact - as a deposit and find themselves with the funds to hire the mercenaries they desire. He makes lavish and ostentatious donations to the priests of Cecelyne, and will use the laws and this curried favour as a weapon against his peers and rivals.

The demon himself has the form of a great orange swallow with a human head and hands at the end of his wings. He is overweight and flies only with difficulty, riding in a palanquin atop a six-legged giant crocodile when he leaves one of his fortress-vaults. Numbers dance upon paper when he approaches. His own holdings are extensive, gained through plunder and debtors' defaults. He is a cruel master who drains lands he does not plan to keep of everything of value and then sells the barren wastes to other citizens - and will freely offer loans to allow them to purchase the worthless domain.

He does not deal with serfs - what nonsense! - but lesser demons who hold citizen status may approach him and he is a significant backer of the trading houses of hell, who will deposit funds with him. The birds that fly between his fortress vaults bring news of deposits and withdrawals, allowing one - with a small percentage as a fee - to bear one of his promissory notes across many layers without having to carry precious metals or gems through the demon city. He has interests in Creation, too. Tales say that certain senior members of the Nexan Guild have traded countless slaves to him to get the capital that bought them their position on the Board.

He is no great general, but nevertheless he has a larger standing army than most demon lords. Within the demon realm, main force is often needed to collect owed debts and his force is specialised in locust-like assaults to seize areas and pillage them for payment. Seldom are his armies led by him, though - instead his general is One Ox, an outcaste Terrestrial and infernalist who is his trusted confidant and lover. Brilliant and mercurial, that man's leadership has made Lehereca Va a demon lord to be feared.

One Ox is an old man, though - nearing five hundred, and kept alive by the cunning mechanisms that riddle his flesh and the salvaged suit of Shogunate armour rebuilt by Alevua's hand. The two of them fear that some day in the near future the sorcery and drugs that purify his flesh and stop death from taking him will fail. None of the children One Ox has sired have Exalted, and the two of them look for a young Terrestrial who they can train to replace him.

Sorcerers call upon Lehereca Va as an accountant and a manager. The sight of a poorly constructed ledger or records which do not properly account for holdings cause him spiritual pain. A wise master will not give him too lax a hand if they care for their subjects, though, for the demon is ruthless and cruel in settling all debts. While he will invest wealth wisely, he spurns charity and respects no laws save Cecelyne's. When an enterprise at least a century old is on the verge of collapse due to mismanagement in handling the accounts, occasionally he will feel a twinge of pain and appear riding his crocodile to seize ownership and set the records right.
 
I never really saw the "transhuman" thing with Infernal Exalted. I'm curious what everyone bases this off.
To a certain extent all Exalted are Trans or Post-human (with high Essence Alchemicals and Infernals being the later.), with all of them being superior to a baseline human in every-way you can imagine; if there is something a normal person can do, an Exalted can probably do it better.

But Infernals are the on the nose about it; they're capable of forking themselves, they can impose changes upon their very nature that few other Exalted can at such a early stage of their development, such as acidic blood, the ability to go without food or air in a place of desolation and the irreversible alteration of their psyche that changes they way they think on the most basic levels; like being able to completely disregard any kind of order, their already extreme virtues capable of being taken to another level and being capable of using applied solipsism as a defensive measure.

That isn't to talk about the weirder effects; like removing the need for sleep completely or replacing with running, getting a full eight hours out of an underwater cat-nap.
 
Last edited:
His own holdings are extensive, gained through plunder and debtors' defaults. He is a cruel master who drains lands he does not plan to keep of everything of value and then sells the barren wastes to other citizens - and will freely offer loans to allow them to purchase the worthless domain.

I get that Malfeas has a certain aesthetic, but it still strikes me as weird that over thousands of years you don't see the systems that manage to settle into positive-sum equilibria and extract as many gains from trade as possible becoming dominant there. Frequently "strip the land bare and sell the remaining wastes" is a less economical strategy than carefully managing the investment to maintain or improve its value.
 
I get that Malfeas has a certain aesthetic, but it still strikes me as weird that over thousands of years you don't see the systems that manage to settle into positive-sum equilibria and extract as many gains from trade as possible becoming dominant there. Frequently "strip the land bare and sell the remaining wastes" is a less economical strategy than carefully managing the investment to maintain or improve its value.
This is a soul of Metagaos. Being wasteful in sating it's desires isn't that strange.

Not to mention that, simply by being a demon, he has an alien viewpoint and thought process. The goal isn't sustainability, it's going along with his maddened Urge.
 
I get that Malfeas has a certain aesthetic, but it still strikes me as weird that over thousands of years you don't see the systems that manage to settle into positive-sum equilibria and extract as many gains from trade as possible becoming dominant there. Frequently "strip the land bare and sell the remaining wastes" is a less economical strategy than carefully managing the investment to maintain or improve its value.
But Malfeas has a tendency to undergo regular natural disasters in the form of Yozi moving through, not to mention the constant wars between demons. Sure investing in improving things is nice, but when Adorjan comes through and kills everyone in the layer, or Kimbery floods the layer, or Malfeas shifts and crushes the layer...
 
This is a soul of Metagaos. Being wasteful in sating it's desires isn't that strange.

Sure, for this particular demon it may make sense. But these types of outcomes seem ubiquitous and persistent throughout Malfeas.

Not to mention that, simply by being a demon, he has an alien viewpoint and thought process. The goal isn't sustainability, it's going along with his maddened Urge.

Sustainability isn't a goal, it's a means.

The demons having "alien viewpoints and thought processes" just makes for greater heterogeneity of wants - which means even more opportunities for gains from trade. Agents don't (generally) trade out of a love of trade itself, but because it benefits them. Agents that are able to do so frequently will acquire more and more economic power, which is valuable to them because Malfeas has a functioning exchange economy and so wealth is fungible with desires. Networks of agents that manage to do this repeatedly should accumulate enough power to dominate the networks that don't.

None of this is deterministic or guaranteed but over long time periods the bad equilibria should have an easier time decaying into the good ones than vice versa.
 
Back
Top