Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Aside from Miracles of the Solar Exalted, the Tomb of Dreams jumpstart has been released, but nothing else so far.
General Exalted Thread
At the moment, the next book to be released (Arms of the Chosen) is currently been edited, and has its Art contracted. The Realm and Dragonblooded are following that, but both got knocked back to first draft status after the guys leading development on EX3 got changed. There are a few snippets being sold (like one or two antagonists) but they are not full books and are just pulled from a future antagonist book or something. No sales date for Arms of the Chosen has been announced.
Since Sidereals got brought up a bit back, I'm curious:
What were the Bronze Faction contingencies for threats outside of fate? There are at least three major factors that fall outsie of their ability to predict: Malfeas, the Underworld, and the Wyld. How did they sell that the Vision of Bronze was sure with at least three major factors that were outside of the Loom's ability to account for?
-3rd Circle Demons get out on a regular basis. It might not be a common thing, but it does happen, and without Solars, there's no effective way to sent them back to hell, save approaching the Unconquered Sun and asking for his help.
-The Wyld is fairly well understood and contained, despite being Chaos given form. The problem is that it's eternal and endless, and without Wyld Shaping Technique, every part of creation they lose isn't coming back.
-The Underworld is probably the least dangerous because up until this point, there haven't been many powerful ghosts, and Deathlords aren't a thing yet. There isn't a desperate need for Solar intervention with them, but he dead are pretty ubiquitous, don't have any real restrictions on their access to Creation, and can go pretty much anywhere.
I'm honestly curious how they managed to gloss over those three glaring issues as "covered."
I also kind of want to run a Sidereal Debate thread regarding the Usurpation.
What were the Bronze Faction contingencies for threats outside of fate? There are at least three major factors that fall outsie of their ability to predict: Malfeas, the Underworld, and the Wyld. How did they sell that the Vision of Bronze was sure with at least three major factors that were outside of the Loom's ability to account for?
-3rd Circle Demons get out on a regular basis. It might not be a common thing, but it does happen, and without Solars, there's no effective way to sent them back to hell, save approaching the Unconquered Sun and asking for his help.
-The Wyld is fairly well understood and contained, despite being Chaos given form. The problem is that it's eternal and endless, and without Wyld Shaping Technique, every part of creation they lose isn't coming back.
-The Underworld is probably the least dangerous because up until this point, there haven't been many powerful ghosts, and Deathlords aren't a thing yet. There isn't a desperate need for Solar intervention with them, but he dead are pretty ubiquitous, don't have any real restrictions on their access to Creation, and can go pretty much anywhere.
I'm honestly curious how they managed to gloss over those three glaring issues as "covered."
I also kind of want to run a Sidereal Debate thread regarding the Usurpation.
The Visions weren't made through the Loom. Remember, the Loom has trouble dealing with essence users. Using it to predict what would happen with Solars seems...unwise. The Sidereal do have means of determining the future outside of the Loom.
As for the rest, well, most Third Circles don't seem to be able to escape hell for long, so that helps. Moreover, they wouldn't have access to adamant sorcery, that doesn't mean that they suddenly had no recourse against a third circle. The Dragonblooded are a threat to demons, and Sidereals aren't exactly chumps in that department either.
The wyld was probably the biggest threat. But it's also one that had multiple defenses set up against, and until the double whammy of the Contagion and the Crusade (both rather anomalous events) one that was relatively under control.
As for the underworld, before the Contagion there don't seem to be that many shadowlands, which means there weren't many ways for a ghost to get to Creation. Moreover, with the numbers of dragonblooded available reigning in the ghosts that did come in was simplified. I'd say it likely ended up similar to how first circle demons are dealt with, with more vigilance in the areas around shadowlands.
TenfoldShields
Lounging on a Hoard of Words
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Given the structure of the Yozi's prison the big dudes themselves are never, ever, getting free and those are the real "Literally Everything Is Fucked" triggers. Individual 3rd Circles are city-destroying threats but they can be bargained with, sometimes bartered with, they almost always have things they want, enemies within Hell or Heaven, and very human drives. And, failing a semi-amiable thing, the Sidereals have heavy assets like the Aerial Legion and the Dragonblooded that can dogpile and properly ruin a 3CD's day. Not without a high cost mind but death isn't cheap, even for the Unquestionable, and their ability to affect things increasingly close to the Blessed Isle is going to be increasingly limited. Which means that they're restricted to operating in the periphery.
The Wyld's always been a prick and you can manage that with infrastructure, certain metals, etc. You don't need Solars to put down Raksha and while I prefer the Havoc interpretation I'm pretty sure that even canon dudes are pretty splintered and factional.
The Underworld naturally empties over time as ghosts either eat each other/wash away/fade into Lethe, everything in it gets fucked over by sunlight and certain proscriptions, and the more powerful stuff lives the farthest from the living world.
These are all concerns but, like, still not on the scale of "the Solars might drag all of Creation screaming into End of Evangelion".
- Location
- NOVA
A good number of their future seeing Charms work without any problems on beings Outside of Fate and there're also more mundane solutions to Malfeas and the Underworld.
A Sidereal can gather information about their plans from their own people because Sidereals can summon both ghosts and Second Circle Demons. The Wyld is trickier, but also more able to be handled by the DragonBlooded. It's also not too threatening normally, as @Cosar said.
The escape conditions of many, if not most, of the Third Circle Demons are likely known and should have alerts set in the Loom to notify the relevant departments whenever they might occur. The false positive rate would be horrendous, but acceptable considering the alternative.
They send a negotiator to make sure the demon understands what is and isn't allowed on penalty of calling the Aerial Legion and the demon risking death.
Those who escape more frequently might have standing agreements so they can be spared the lecture/paperwork.
Demon Oversight Committee: "Oh, Ligier's going to be able to send his sword out again tomorrow. We last spoke to him a decade ago so he's still within the last terms he agreed to."
Up until the Deathlords and Abyssals really got started with expanding the number of shadowlands, the Underworld didn't have any heavy hitters relative to the resources the Sidereals could call on. Spread around knowledge of the thaunmaturgy to keep ghosts away, along with making sure proper funerals are performed, and a great deal of the problem is solved.
If you use the canon Underworld, the biggest danger to most of Creation would be hungry ghosts rising up, which isn't something that's easy to fix structurally even for Solars. A more interesting Underworld could have other threats that need to be actively worked against besides the Deathlords.
This sounds like a great idea.
Pretty sure the Loom of Fate was used in the Great Prophecy.
3CD seem... tenuous. Granted, their conditions seem to be be uncommon but limited, or extremely rare but unlimited, but that doesn't mean much when it comes to them. They can maximize their impact beyond the ability of most to understand. The elder Sidereals might be able to predict them or form some type of rapport, but it's a risky proposition, especially given that there is little interaction between Creation and Malfeas most of the time.
As for killing them... it seems doubtful. Their attempts in Creation can be thwarted, but Second and Third Circle Demons can return to Malfeas any time they want, meaning to actually end the threat requires an invasion of Hell, which is... not a bright idea without heavy support. It's doable, but the price would be a lot higher than most would be willing to pay.
Bargaining could work, but appeasement seems like a bad idea in the long run. Might work with the full might of the Shogunate available, but it's a tricky proposition, especially if they start demanding some form of tribute on a regular basis, instead of accepting bribes when it becomes a problem.
Dragon Blooded could be a great asset for containing them, but the Aerial Legion is probably out of their reach, given how many gods feel about the Usurpation and the Sidereals in general. If there is a clear and present danger of the Yozis breaking out, sure; but if its a lone 3CD rampaging in a part of Creation, most of the Celestial Gods would probably say it's the responsibility of the Chosen. Good thing the Solars are... oh, that RIGHT, we don't have them anymore! You can clean up your own mess. The Unconquered Sun gifted Creation to the Exalted, so it's their problem, not ours.
Edit: Seems most 3CDs are either limited or predictable given their summoning conditions. Definitely something to be wary about, but in theory, could be contained given the appropriate resources. Since we're operating at the pre-Usurpation/Cantagion/Baloran Crusade, that's what we're going with. Still think some specific souls could be more trouble than they're worth, but it's not insurmountable.
None of you has really addressed the issue of the Wyld. Sure, the majority of encounters end with the Fair Folk losing, but victory always comes at a price. It's war between the Mountain and the Ocean. While the ocean cannot destroy the mountain with a single blow, it wears it down, over the course of millenia, the final result is inevitable.
Granted, that could just be short sightedness on their part, since that seems to be a problem for humanity in general. Who cares if Creation will die in a billion years? We have a serious crisis RIGHT NOW that needs to be addressed! This seems like it could be a significant rallying point for the Gold Faction, though it's effectiveness would be...debatable, given how long term the effects could be.
3CD seem... tenuous. Granted, their conditions seem to be be uncommon but limited, or extremely rare but unlimited, but that doesn't mean much when it comes to them. They can maximize their impact beyond the ability of most to understand. The elder Sidereals might be able to predict them or form some type of rapport, but it's a risky proposition, especially given that there is little interaction between Creation and Malfeas most of the time.
As for killing them... it seems doubtful. Their attempts in Creation can be thwarted, but Second and Third Circle Demons can return to Malfeas any time they want, meaning to actually end the threat requires an invasion of Hell, which is... not a bright idea without heavy support. It's doable, but the price would be a lot higher than most would be willing to pay.
Bargaining could work, but appeasement seems like a bad idea in the long run. Might work with the full might of the Shogunate available, but it's a tricky proposition, especially if they start demanding some form of tribute on a regular basis, instead of accepting bribes when it becomes a problem.
Dragon Blooded could be a great asset for containing them, but the Aerial Legion is probably out of their reach, given how many gods feel about the Usurpation and the Sidereals in general. If there is a clear and present danger of the Yozis breaking out, sure; but if its a lone 3CD rampaging in a part of Creation, most of the Celestial Gods would probably say it's the responsibility of the Chosen. Good thing the Solars are... oh, that RIGHT, we don't have them anymore! You can clean up your own mess. The Unconquered Sun gifted Creation to the Exalted, so it's their problem, not ours.
Edit: Seems most 3CDs are either limited or predictable given their summoning conditions. Definitely something to be wary about, but in theory, could be contained given the appropriate resources. Since we're operating at the pre-Usurpation/Cantagion/Baloran Crusade, that's what we're going with. Still think some specific souls could be more trouble than they're worth, but it's not insurmountable.
None of you has really addressed the issue of the Wyld. Sure, the majority of encounters end with the Fair Folk losing, but victory always comes at a price. It's war between the Mountain and the Ocean. While the ocean cannot destroy the mountain with a single blow, it wears it down, over the course of millenia, the final result is inevitable.
Granted, that could just be short sightedness on their part, since that seems to be a problem for humanity in general. Who cares if Creation will die in a billion years? We have a serious crisis RIGHT NOW that needs to be addressed! This seems like it could be a significant rallying point for the Gold Faction, though it's effectiveness would be...debatable, given how long term the effects could be.
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Mhm.
By sheer volume, I think "Killed by Raksha" is the most common cause of death among Raksha.
Getting killed normally means that a Second or Third Circle is out of commission for a year and a day, during which time their rivals in Malfeas will be cheerfully picking through their empire and taking whatever they like the look of.
Leaving that aside and that Third Circles getting out is a very rare thing and they don't stay out for long(I think they get, maybe a day? Ligier's the only one I really know off the top of my head and he gets like, five minutes tops), if they make a super big nuisance of themselves, the Sids or DBs could bust out the Spirit Killers.
Then they're dead for good.
The Wyld was a problem that was largely contained.
There were things like the Order Conferring Trade Nexus and the Jade Obelisks that kept the Wyld well back in the old days, along with other factors.
I recall that there was something about the Fair Folk only being able to enter/invade if given permission and that they couldn't launch the Crusade until the Death Lords opened the way for them. But that might have been something added in 2e. I don't have enough 1e books to really confirm that.
Besides which, "The Wyld might destroy Creation in the super distant future. Maybe." Isn't much of an argument when the Solars are going to accidentally Creation in the very near future.
notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
Does anyone have any good homebrew Thrown charms for 2e?
Leingod
Immaculate Blooming Lotus
True. I guess in that case the difference between him and Kejak (and there has to be some difference, otherwise there's no point to introducing Ozpin at all) is that Kejak was confronted with the same feelings of guilt and regret, but instead turned toward trying to justify it instead. Because unless I'm drastically misinformed, Kejak's Motivation these days is literally "Justify past sacrifices." Perhaps Ozpin's would be to find a way to "Atone for past mistakes?"
I don't think he'd be firmly against them or anything, but even if the bloodshed of the Usurpation didn't make him question whether it was really the best course of action, stuff like the Great Contagion and Balorian Crusade, and even just the way the Realm operates as a matter of course these days, might make him wonder whether Creation was really better off without the Solars.
I mean, I can certainly see Jaune as an Exalt (depending on when in his personal story it happens, either as an Infernal or a Solar) but come on, it's Pyrrha. She's awesome! Definitely a Dawn Caste, too. Though, much like her divine patron, she'd probably have several high Virtues that would pull her in a lot of different directions. You could make a very good case for Pyrrha having at least 3 points in everything except maybe Temperance.
And as for Nora and Ren, I think I'd make them Sidereals as well. If nothing else, it would justify why they have such a lesser role in the story than their teammates until Volume 4.
Nora seems like an obvious choice for a Chosen of Battles at first, but I think that she's actually more a fit for Serenity. Why? Because Nora's been described by the writers as thinking of fighting as essentially a game that she's really, really good at and loves to play. While she can take it seriously, something needs to force that on her. And Nora's behavior outside of combat seems to be on enjoying life with her friends. In fact, she's basically like her inspiration, Thor; fights all the time because it's both necessary and fun as hell, then spends the rest of the time feasting and bullsh*tting with his buddies. And she's already got the blue eyes.
As for Ren, I guess he's the best fit for the Chosen of Endings (and I'm actually saying that this time, not somehow typing it on accident instead of Secrets like I did with Ozpin). Ren's backstory is one that is very suited to instilling in him the idea that "life is defined by endings, both good and bad." He's appropriately solemn and serious for a Sidereal with those particular duties, but still not without warmth and compassion. Plus, it's got Martial Arts as one of its main skills IIRC and its color is purple, which is the closest to the pink in Ren's eyes and hair.
I guess they'd be members of the Gold Faction, to explain falling in with Pyrrha and Jaune. They might meet through the Cult of the Illuminated.
That's probably the best way for one to portray it, though I think Ozpin's time f*ckery might be better portrayed as a Sidereal Martial Art that allows the user to f*ck with time by alternately compressing and stretching it (but no time travel, of course). Though given what I've heard about SMA, I wouldn't be surprised if that was already a thing.
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- Location
- Singapore
......so it basically, what, lets you carry out several actions at the same time?
ES homebrew: Sorcerous Ascension
Sorcerous Ascension
Men cannot master sorcery. It is beyond them. A species that is born blind to the flow of essence and that must blast open its chakras of understanding to perceive the gods who live among them could never hope to master the birthright of the Primordials. This is an iron-clad law of the universe.
Ah, but men are cunning and men are greedy and men know hubris beyond reason. Is it any surprise that some mortals have found a path to ascension?
The Sacrifice of Humanity
A human cannot understand sorcery, but a prospective sorcerer can still undergo the Trials of Sorcery. They pass through the four Trials, but at the final Station of Choice the one who seeks ascension must choose to sacrifice their humanity in one way or another. To become a sorcerer, they must become something other than human. At this moment, their decision to become other completes their chrysalis. They lose their humanity and gain knowledge of sorcery. The balance of karma is maintained. This might seem impossible - like opening a box with a crowbar within it - but the first act of reality-warping the new sorcerer performs is to change themselves so that they might be a sorcerer.
Many die at this stage. Such power is terrible in its might, and mortals are so fragile. A mortal who tries this might dissolve into stinking toxic sludge, be torn apart by uncontrolled forces, or simply vanish never to be seen again. Let it never be thought that this path is without risk. The danger is great enough that many who could attempt this path never overcome the Station of Fear. Such is life - and such is man.
The nature of the Station of Choice that the sorcerer chooses is what determines their new nature. Not all once-human sorcerers are the same class of being. Some men commit ritual suicide in a way that means they transition to the afterlife and preserve their power, devouring their po to become life-drinking monsters. Others purify their nature and become elemental beings, or transmute themselves to gods or akuma. Others yet snatch up a title-fragment of the Wyld and become a living story; the Wise Man, the Sorcerer, the Wandering Sage. And some become stranger things yet.
Ascended sorcerers are too varied to fully describe and encompass. The power of sorcery is that it is many things, and so they are many things. The one thing they are not, and cannot be, is human.
A Few Sorcerers
In a remote valley in the North East dwells the knowledge-god Ildyr, Goddess of Discovered Lore, who lives among the overgrown ruins of Shogunate towers and maintains their records. Once a powerful Celestial God in the Bureau of Heaven, Ildyr drew the wrath of the Shogun of Paperwork for certain indiscreet comments and she left Heaven in a rage. The Children of Ildyr are curious mortals who she lures to her valley with puzzles and enigmas, requiring both curiosity and wit to solve, and from thereon in she teaches them as her disciples. Those who achieve ascension take on some of her nature as they sublimate their desires to her. Their hair turns snow-white regardless of their age, and their eyes become paper and ink. Ildyr sends her students out to copy rare lore and secret knowledge, making sure that copies are made of valuable things that might be lost forever. Other times, they plant duplicates of lore in libraries to be discovered by scholars.
The Perfected Drakes provide the only path to sorcerous ascension sanctioned by the Immaculate Order. Through long discipline and meditation on the Immaculate Texts, the adept purifies their essence and brings it into harmony with one of the elements. At the moment of their Station of Choice, they make the decision either to die - for the purity of their soul is such that the Texts teach them that they are guaranteed a reincarnation as a Terrestrial in their next life - or to step aside from the cycle of reincarnation and become a drake-bodhisattva. These sorcerers sacrifice their own reincarnation and become an imperfect dragon in this life, one who lives to guide others on the path to a better reincarnation. They wear mortal skin to teach and fight wickedness, but in truth they are serpentine elemental dragons. Perfected drakes are rare among the Order; most mortal monks and nuns who reach this point choose death and rebirth over the path of the drake.
One known now only as the Golden Devil-Sage was once a heretic who worshipped the anathema, seeking to recreate their power. He drank tinctures infused with sunlight, hunted down lesser servants of the Sun and drained their blood, and consorted with Hell. In the end, his sacrifices to the Street of Golden Lanterns paid off, and he tore away his mortality and gifted it to her. What remained in his pace was a perfect androgynous figure, with golden skin and a lust decadence to every move they made. Seductive and corrupt, the akuma now moves among Creation, captivating ambitious men and women with their magic and luring them to the path of Hell - for their magic lets them turn lead into gold and the souls of men into precious gems.
In the far east, a wise woman was betrayed by a rival and thrown into a deep pit to die. But she did not perish, and she listened to the spirits despite the pain of her broken legs. She lived off the moss and mushrooms that grew down there, and drank rainwater which dribbled down the rocks. In the first year, she raged. In the second, she prayed. In the third, she meditated. And in the fourth year, she came apart into the moss and mushrooms she had eaten. The next night, a female figure made of plantlife picked up the rival, and cast her into the pit. She did not survive. This was three hundred years ago, and now the Verdant Lady guards the eastern forests against the chaos princes. Her magic makes the trees grow to the size of mountains, and the forest spirits are her allies which let her do many mighty things.
The Naib of Huuza rules over an area of the South-Eastern country of Taira. In his youth he was vain and ambitious, and sought to never die. He studied forbidden arts and black magics. His knowledge grew so great that he laughed in the face of death, and tore out his po, stuffing it in a statue and replacing it with a bloated conglomerate made of the souls of the victims he sacrificed in his ascension ritual. The yidak-like monstrosity animates the golem statue and slays his foes for him, while he only grows more powerful as he devours more souls. He must digest these souls to cast magic and respire motes, though, and his subjects know never to let children and the elderly go unwatched lest they vanish. If it were not for the civil war and the large number of slaves he buys to fuel his life, questions would be asked - but as it is, he considers how to lever his power to seize the title of Shah for himself.
In the machine-realm of Autochthonia, the hegemonic Octet forbids the path of sorcerous ascension. In their hypocrisy, though, it is not unknown to the oligarchs and theocrats who keep their own grasping for personal power hidden from the proletariat. Outside of their dominion, the cities of the people sneered at as 'tunnel folk' are often ruled by Sorcerer-Executors who weave their magics through cunning implants that replace their chakra system - no longer human, but now something new.
Men cannot master sorcery. It is beyond them. A species that is born blind to the flow of essence and that must blast open its chakras of understanding to perceive the gods who live among them could never hope to master the birthright of the Primordials. This is an iron-clad law of the universe.
Ah, but men are cunning and men are greedy and men know hubris beyond reason. Is it any surprise that some mortals have found a path to ascension?
The Sacrifice of Humanity
A human cannot understand sorcery, but a prospective sorcerer can still undergo the Trials of Sorcery. They pass through the four Trials, but at the final Station of Choice the one who seeks ascension must choose to sacrifice their humanity in one way or another. To become a sorcerer, they must become something other than human. At this moment, their decision to become other completes their chrysalis. They lose their humanity and gain knowledge of sorcery. The balance of karma is maintained. This might seem impossible - like opening a box with a crowbar within it - but the first act of reality-warping the new sorcerer performs is to change themselves so that they might be a sorcerer.
Many die at this stage. Such power is terrible in its might, and mortals are so fragile. A mortal who tries this might dissolve into stinking toxic sludge, be torn apart by uncontrolled forces, or simply vanish never to be seen again. Let it never be thought that this path is without risk. The danger is great enough that many who could attempt this path never overcome the Station of Fear. Such is life - and such is man.
The nature of the Station of Choice that the sorcerer chooses is what determines their new nature. Not all once-human sorcerers are the same class of being. Some men commit ritual suicide in a way that means they transition to the afterlife and preserve their power, devouring their po to become life-drinking monsters. Others purify their nature and become elemental beings, or transmute themselves to gods or akuma. Others yet snatch up a title-fragment of the Wyld and become a living story; the Wise Man, the Sorcerer, the Wandering Sage. And some become stranger things yet.
Ascended sorcerers are too varied to fully describe and encompass. The power of sorcery is that it is many things, and so they are many things. The one thing they are not, and cannot be, is human.
A Few Sorcerers
In a remote valley in the North East dwells the knowledge-god Ildyr, Goddess of Discovered Lore, who lives among the overgrown ruins of Shogunate towers and maintains their records. Once a powerful Celestial God in the Bureau of Heaven, Ildyr drew the wrath of the Shogun of Paperwork for certain indiscreet comments and she left Heaven in a rage. The Children of Ildyr are curious mortals who she lures to her valley with puzzles and enigmas, requiring both curiosity and wit to solve, and from thereon in she teaches them as her disciples. Those who achieve ascension take on some of her nature as they sublimate their desires to her. Their hair turns snow-white regardless of their age, and their eyes become paper and ink. Ildyr sends her students out to copy rare lore and secret knowledge, making sure that copies are made of valuable things that might be lost forever. Other times, they plant duplicates of lore in libraries to be discovered by scholars.
The Perfected Drakes provide the only path to sorcerous ascension sanctioned by the Immaculate Order. Through long discipline and meditation on the Immaculate Texts, the adept purifies their essence and brings it into harmony with one of the elements. At the moment of their Station of Choice, they make the decision either to die - for the purity of their soul is such that the Texts teach them that they are guaranteed a reincarnation as a Terrestrial in their next life - or to step aside from the cycle of reincarnation and become a drake-bodhisattva. These sorcerers sacrifice their own reincarnation and become an imperfect dragon in this life, one who lives to guide others on the path to a better reincarnation. They wear mortal skin to teach and fight wickedness, but in truth they are serpentine elemental dragons. Perfected drakes are rare among the Order; most mortal monks and nuns who reach this point choose death and rebirth over the path of the drake.
One known now only as the Golden Devil-Sage was once a heretic who worshipped the anathema, seeking to recreate their power. He drank tinctures infused with sunlight, hunted down lesser servants of the Sun and drained their blood, and consorted with Hell. In the end, his sacrifices to the Street of Golden Lanterns paid off, and he tore away his mortality and gifted it to her. What remained in his pace was a perfect androgynous figure, with golden skin and a lust decadence to every move they made. Seductive and corrupt, the akuma now moves among Creation, captivating ambitious men and women with their magic and luring them to the path of Hell - for their magic lets them turn lead into gold and the souls of men into precious gems.
In the far east, a wise woman was betrayed by a rival and thrown into a deep pit to die. But she did not perish, and she listened to the spirits despite the pain of her broken legs. She lived off the moss and mushrooms that grew down there, and drank rainwater which dribbled down the rocks. In the first year, she raged. In the second, she prayed. In the third, she meditated. And in the fourth year, she came apart into the moss and mushrooms she had eaten. The next night, a female figure made of plantlife picked up the rival, and cast her into the pit. She did not survive. This was three hundred years ago, and now the Verdant Lady guards the eastern forests against the chaos princes. Her magic makes the trees grow to the size of mountains, and the forest spirits are her allies which let her do many mighty things.
The Naib of Huuza rules over an area of the South-Eastern country of Taira. In his youth he was vain and ambitious, and sought to never die. He studied forbidden arts and black magics. His knowledge grew so great that he laughed in the face of death, and tore out his po, stuffing it in a statue and replacing it with a bloated conglomerate made of the souls of the victims he sacrificed in his ascension ritual. The yidak-like monstrosity animates the golem statue and slays his foes for him, while he only grows more powerful as he devours more souls. He must digest these souls to cast magic and respire motes, though, and his subjects know never to let children and the elderly go unwatched lest they vanish. If it were not for the civil war and the large number of slaves he buys to fuel his life, questions would be asked - but as it is, he considers how to lever his power to seize the title of Shah for himself.
In the machine-realm of Autochthonia, the hegemonic Octet forbids the path of sorcerous ascension. In their hypocrisy, though, it is not unknown to the oligarchs and theocrats who keep their own grasping for personal power hidden from the proletariat. Outside of their dominion, the cities of the people sneered at as 'tunnel folk' are often ruled by Sorcerer-Executors who weave their magics through cunning implants that replace their chakra system - no longer human, but now something new.
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Leingod
Immaculate Blooming Lotus
I think the only real distinction with "Mortal" is that, in 3e's parlance, a "Mortal" is specifically a being that cannot shape Essence of their own will. Common animals are Mortal, as are most humans. Magical beasts, like the Beasts of Resplendent Liquid and such, are not Mortal, because even if it's only by instinct, they still actively shape Essence to some end. In that paradigm, to say "a Sorcerer is not Mortal" doesn't mean you're no longer human if you learn Sorcery, any more than it means you're no longer human if you Exalt. It just means that you are, by definition, no longer Mortal, because the whole point of Sorcery is that you're shaping Essence.
Also, the Shaping Rituals section includes five different ways for one to gain access to Sorcery, and none of them say they're Exalts-only. These also all include unique ways of accruing Sorcerous motes and Merits. To wit:
Pact with Mara: Exactly as it sounds, you do the same thing Brigid did (possibly) and make a pact with the demon Mara in exchange for Sorcerous power.
Pact with an Ifrit Lord: Doesn't have to specifically be an Ifrit Lord; it could just as easily be another powerful Elemental, though if it's not fire you'd get different stuff than what's offered in the book.
Scarred by Nightmares: Eldritch in every sense of the term, this means that you had some kind of encounter (which could easily just mean you saw it an didn't die) with something maddening and chaotic, either out in the Wyld or in your dreams.
Soul-Perfecting Elixir: This is gaining Sorcery through internal alchemy (kick-started by an actual elixir) and asceticism, which is probably the most common path to Sorcery since it's by far the safest.
The Talisman of Ten Thousand Eyes: A 4-dot Artifact that can grant initiation into Sorcery. This one might Exalts-only.
EDIT: Missed a sidebar specifically about this subject. Mortals can take a shaping ritual to initiate themselves into the Emerald Circle as a 5-dot Merit if they have Occult 3.
Also, the Shaping Rituals section includes five different ways for one to gain access to Sorcery, and none of them say they're Exalts-only. These also all include unique ways of accruing Sorcerous motes and Merits. To wit:
Pact with Mara: Exactly as it sounds, you do the same thing Brigid did (possibly) and make a pact with the demon Mara in exchange for Sorcerous power.
Pact with an Ifrit Lord: Doesn't have to specifically be an Ifrit Lord; it could just as easily be another powerful Elemental, though if it's not fire you'd get different stuff than what's offered in the book.
Scarred by Nightmares: Eldritch in every sense of the term, this means that you had some kind of encounter (which could easily just mean you saw it an didn't die) with something maddening and chaotic, either out in the Wyld or in your dreams.
Soul-Perfecting Elixir: This is gaining Sorcery through internal alchemy (kick-started by an actual elixir) and asceticism, which is probably the most common path to Sorcery since it's by far the safest.
The Talisman of Ten Thousand Eyes: A 4-dot Artifact that can grant initiation into Sorcery. This one might Exalts-only.
EDIT: Missed a sidebar specifically about this subject. Mortals can take a shaping ritual to initiate themselves into the Emerald Circle as a 5-dot Merit if they have Occult 3.
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Lealope
Not yet invincible
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- She/Her
They don't undergo transformations though? They can already use sorcery so there's no need for this rigmarole.
I don't follow.
A Dragonblooded doesn't need to twist themselves into a new class of being just to learn sorcery. All they need is Enlightenment 4 and to undergo the Trials of Sorcery. This is for beings that can reach Enlightenment 3, but can't reach Enlightenment 4.
A Dragonblooded sorcerer is a Dragonblooded who can use sorcery. They're weird, but only in the way all sorcerers are a bit weird for having gone through the Trials of Sorcery. From a certain point of view, they already had their dramatic transformation when their blood awoke. They're not a human who has to render them something else just to grasp the understanding of essence needed to practice sorcery.
Or are you asking if a Dragonblooded could try for sorcerous ascension to practice Sapphire Circle sorcery? Because to that, I'm not going to say it's impossible. I'm just going to say that would involve "not being a Dragonblooded anymore" and that means you lose all your DB Charms and benefits.
Hey, you know, the Yozis are offering a path for it already! All your Dragonblood has to do is to sacrifice their free will, and accept their place as the servant of the makers of the world. They'll totally get Sapphire Circle Sorcery out of that!
(There are no easier paths than that, and most of them are equally unpleasant in the "downsides" column)
Leingod
Immaculate Blooming Lotus
I wonder... Who are the most powerful Sorcerers in Creation at the moment? The Solars have only been back for 5 years, and I don't even remember if any Canon ones have reached the Adamant Circle.
My guess would be either Ayesha Ura or Raksi, since they're Elder Exalts noted to specialize in Sorcery. Are there any other contenders?
My guess would be either Ayesha Ura or Raksi, since they're Elder Exalts noted to specialize in Sorcery. Are there any other contenders?
- Location
- Library
ES, What would be a "standard" or maybe desired outcome of Salina's working as taught by Salina? A minor god themed around sun? Or did she just broke enlightenment model and said "everything goes, have fun kids " (*Sidereal screams in the background*)?
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- Location
- Singapore
.....i swear, i saw arianna cast adamant circle sorcery.
Are comics canon?
Comics are not canon unless you want them to be, same as everything else.
But yes, it's possible that someone as obsessed with it as Arianna could have reached the Adamant Circle if you go by the "five-ish years since the Solar Exaltations went free" thing.
She had access to it in the Under The Rose adventure, which is part of the notorious Return of the Scarlet Empress storyline, and so is not canon. The "canon" Arianna has Emerald Circle only. Chapter comics are definately not canon, though.
If we go by chapter comics, then Samea, the Bull's Zenith ally, also casted Demon of the Third Circle, and so has access to that level of sorcery.
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- Denmark
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"My name is Chiming MInaret and welcome to Jackass."
Presumably Salina just embedded sorcery into the weave of Creation so anyone could learn it, but not everyone could practice it, as it still requires you to blast open your soul and accept glorious power within. Maybe let your Humanity fester and grow until you become an abomination of winding limbs and crushing muscles and crimson eyes, whose very ascension to the vaunted heights of sorcery blew open an abyss in the world...
As has been stated a billion times before, no they are not.
Hi Manus, Father of the Abyss!
The purpose of the Salinian Working is to
a) Ensure all spells are recorded in the fabric of Creation so they cannot be lost forever - once a spell has been invented, it can always be re-invented
b) Ensure that anyone who wants to become a sorcerer and meets the prerequisites will - eventually - find a way.
I will not ascribe these Sorcerous Ascension paths to Salina. Indeed, they work against her core egalitarian principles. They demand that you sacrifice your humanity - in one way or another - for power. They select fairly strongly for people who consider humanity an impediment to having the will to warp the world as they want. She wouldn't want that.
I used to dislike Salina quite a lot, but now I'm very fond of her - since I basically just assigned her Usagi Tsukino's personality. And with my model of sorcery, the core tragedy of Salina is that she is fighting against the very essence of what sorcery is. Sorcery is privilege. Sorcery is a way of leveraging the fact that you have power to have even more power. Sorcery is not a weapon of the underdog; sorcery is what power uses to crush the underdog. It is the weapon of those richer than you, more knowledgeable than you, more enlightened than you. It's a tragedy, because she could never win like she wanted to. She couldn't touch the Enlightenment prerequisites, or the way it's fuelled by Backgrounds, which are privilege.
But the Salinian Working is her chipping away at the base of that, perhaps with a razor-edged frisbee. It means that you can learn sorcery from the world - you don't need to be chained to a master to learn their spells or to be guided into sorcery. But that's all it is; an attempt to chip away at the base of a towering edifice. Salina set herself against the very nature of the thing she mastered - and against the Deliberative which was entirely down with the fact that they benefitted from being top cat. Her victories are one woman's victories; amazing for what she did in the fact of such opposition and inertia, but fundamentally not enough from her point of view.
So, no, sorcerous ascension is no friend to her point of view. Not everything linked to sorcery has to be hers. That's just the same path which led to the "AUTOCHTHON DID EVERYTHING" that late 1e and early 2e displayed.
(And yet she's such a strong personality that in a few hours briefly possessing Sasi, without her excellencies and without her social charms, she hammered a wedge between Keris and the Yozis and the Unquestionable that is just growing wider over time. And was one of the contributing factors of pushing a hell-princess into getting Compassion 4. Even chipping away at the base of a mountain can make landslides occur.)
- Location
- Denmark
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- She/Her
Hi landcollector, poster on SV!Hi Manus, Father of the Abyss!