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General Exalted Thread

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EarthScorpion said:
... it probably gets to try to send you back to Hell in its place if you fail the binding roll.
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Either that or it possesses the guy anyway, being that you already summoned it, it's just that it's totally unbound? And then you find yourself in close personal quarters with a demon prince whom has reason to be personally peeved with you, so while you might get tossed into hell there's plenty of other fun things it might also do to you.

...On a totally separate note, I wonder how long it'll take someone to try working out a variant that works on Elementals or Gods.
 
Happerry said:
Either that or it possesses the guy anyway, being that you already summoned it, it's just that it's totally unbound? And then you find yourself in close personal quarters with a demon prince whom has reason to be personally peeved with you, so while you might get tossed into hell there's plenty of other fun things it might also do to you.

...On a totally separate note, I wonder how long it'll take someone to try working out a variant that works on Elementals or Gods.
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..... dragon kings had something similar.
 
Nervaqus987 said:
You don't summon blood apes when you want discrete leg breakers
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Clearly you aren't summoning the right Blood Apes, then. Because at least one of them is TOO SUBTLE FOR YOU

I always had this sense that Demon of First Circle could summon specific demons if the caster knew their names. Of course, sorcerers also want to keep these names secret, taught only to trusted apprentices if ever, since someone else binding your "heroic" demons is potentially deadly.
 
If y'all are in the mood for some Exalted fodder, Adult Swim is streaming the whole backlog of Samurai Jack in honor of the incoming 5th season. I never got to see a lot of the late season episodes, but holy shit it's crazy how good this show was.
 
samdamandias said:
I always had this sense that Demon of First Circle could summon specific demons if the caster knew their names.
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You can put really specific parameters on what you summon.
I think that one of the only things you can't ask for is a Demon that knows Sorcery, although I'm pretty sure that limitation is in there because IIRC it's illegal for First Circles to become Sorcerers.
 
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EarthScorpion Sorcery Homebrew: Spirit-Shackles
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    • Spirit-Shackles

    Sorcerers do not summon creatures that they cannot bind and must shackle, unless they are entirely consumed by hubris. While binding a demon via the Surrender Oaths or the Laws of Cecelyne calls upon well-established powers and principles, shackling a demon weaves a chain of spells around the creature's mind and body, forcing obedience through pain and compulsion. Each shackling is constructed anew, and must be customised to the spirit in question.

    A shackled spirit is not like a bound one. It does not wish to obey the orders it is given. The magic holds it like a choke-chain, and scours it if it does not obey. The spirit can resist the compulsions of the magic. The sorcerer must batter down their will if they wish their spirit to do something it does not wish to.

    This method of control comes in levels, with each increase in degree of shackling constraining the spirit's power, but making it more pliable.
    • Once-shackled spirits experience a Compulsion to obey their summoner's words, which can be resisted for one willpower and one level of lethal damage per action. The spirit only cares about the letter of the instruction, and may freely disregard the spirit of their orders. Should two orders clash, they may freely choose which one to obey. The sorcerer may impose pain on them with a word as an Emotion effect, imposing a phantom -4 wound penalty.
    • Twice-shackled spirits must spend two willpower and one level of lethal damage per action to resist the Compulsion of their summoner's orders. In addition, should two orders clash, the spirit must attempt to find actions which obey the letter of both orders. The sorcerer may now impose any negative emotion on the spirit with a word - anger, fear, pain and so on. The spirit effectively has a Permanent Essence one lower than usual when bound this way, and all mote costs of its charms are increased by 1m.
    • Thrice-shackled spirits must spend three willpower points and one level of aggravated damage per action to disobey their instructions, and may not egregiously breach the spirit (though they may still manipulate loopholes in phrasing). The sorcerer is now not limited to negative emotions and may make them feel any Emotion at all. The spirit effectively has a Permanent Essence two lower than usual when bound this way, and all mote costs of its charms are increased by 2m.
    Should a spirit undergo Limit Break while bound in this way, it reduces its level of Shackling by one. In addition, unless bound with the Anchor of a demesne, at the end of every Calibration the spirit's shackling reduces by one. Sorcerers may also increase the level of a spirit's shackling if permitted by the shackling spell, and many sorcerers who take these risks tend to concentrate on maintaining the safety of a thrice-shackled spirit.

    Shackling is an inferior method of control to the customary methods. That much is certain. Every sorcerer who knows much about the field agrees. Many of them would never shackle a spirit - either out of ethical obligation, or more commonly a healthy regard for their own skin. Why, then, might a sorcerer wish to shackle a spirit?
    • Shackling permits them to control creatures that cannot be bound conventionally; gods, fair folk, primordial akuma. There are even some spells which permit non-spirits to be shackled.
    • Shackling permits a sorcerer to reach beyond their normal limits. Demon lords can be shackled with Emerald Circle Sorcery and demon princes by Sapphire Circle Sorcery. In the High First Age, some Twilights wondered if they might be able to use their Adamant mastery of sorcery to shackle a Primordial.
    • Shackling may be indefinite, as long as the chains are renewed every Calibration.
    • The sorcerer has been mislead and doesn't understand the limitations and weaknesses of shackling. Such fools swiftly find that they cease to be the master in the situation.
    The following backgrounds are commonly used to anchor a shackling spell:
    • Artefact - the most common by a notable margin. Shackled spirits are literally trussed up in artefact soulsteel chains or collared in orichalcum. This is probably the safest form of shackling - relatively speaking - as the shackles must be removed physically to free the spirit, and should the Artefact fall off, it's an indication that a layer of binding has been broken, providing a warning to the master.
    • Demesne - also relatively common. Spirits shackled within a demesne are trapped within the sacred place, unable to leave it, and the power of such places strengthens the bindings so they degrade less each Calibration. However, a spirit shackled within a demesne slowly corrupts the essence flows of that place, tainting it towards its essence source. To some sorcerers this is a deliberate tool of geomancy.
    • Backing - the Immaculate Order has taught a few heavily monitored monks to shackle Second Circle demons through the authority of the Order. These monks do so to try to contain a rampaging demon lord, and force it to obey them and return to Hell. Such exorcists walk on a knife's edge, wary of allegations of heresy - but also rather more wary of being torn limb from limb by Octavian.
    • Cult - occasionally used, and often swiftly regretted. Cult has the fatal flaw that should the faith of the cult waver at all, the spirit may break a level of shackling - and that usually leads to a swift collapse in the remaining levels.
    • Ally - a character not party to the Surrender Oaths may try to bind a demon with borrowed influence from an Exalted Ally who could bind them. Make no mistake, though - such an attempt is a shackling, not a binding, and the demon is entirely aware that the chains on them are imposed with illegitimate, borrowed authority.
     
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    • I do like the imagery of the demon bound with cuffs of Orialcum that forces it to obey the Sorcerer even though it doesn't want to. I'm kind of getting the image of Genie from Aladdin with the cuffs from the Lamp.

    I rather like it ES, but would you consider writing up some kind of ways the demon can pull on the chains that bind them? I mean other than soaking the damage and spending willpower, is there any way a demon can try to resist or cause issues to the sorcerer that has shackled them?
     
    Bel said:
    I do like the imagery of the demon bound with cuffs of Orialcum that forces it to obey the Sorcerer even though it doesn't want to. I'm kind of getting the image of Genie from Aladdin with the cuffs from the Lamp.

    I rather like it ES, but would you consider writing up some kind of ways the demon can pull on the chains that bind them? I mean other than soaking the damage and spending willpower, is there any way a demon can try to resist or cause issues to the sorcerer that has shackled them?
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    Well, the most obvious way that they can cause issues is that they only have to obey the letter of commands they're given, even if they don't resist them.

    Hence, for the good ol' case of "make sure my son gets safely to that city over there", there's nothing in that order that stops them killing the child as soon as they step over the threshold of the city gates. Or more perniciously, indoctrinating them into the worship of the Yozis on the way there .

    (that is why you do not use shackled demons as childcare. Shackled demons are explicitly meant to be micromanaged and kept by your side at all times and not left alone. If you try to treat them like they're bound demons, you're making a huge mistake - and if treating them like bound demons seems to be working out for you, that means you're in even more trouble because you've managed to shackle a smart demon that's willing to tolerate discomfort as part of a longer-term goal)
     
    grommile said:
    Power is one hell of a drug.
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    The answer is, no, that's not going to work, bucko, because Primordials are all Adamant Circle casters so they can dispel their shackling.

    ... huh. Technically by RAW, there's nothing actually stopping 1CD and 2CDs who are sorcerers from using Banishment spells to Banish themselves as long as the sorcerer hasn't told them not to. Well, that's probably a loophole that should be closed because it means any Sapphire-Circle-knowing 2CD is only bound as long as it wants to be. That, or part of the binding ritual is an Old Realm phrase which means "take no action to free yourself".
     
    Bel said:
    I rather like it ES, but would you consider writing up some kind of ways the demon can pull on the chains that bind them? I mean other than soaking the damage and spending willpower, is there any way a demon can try to resist or cause issues to the sorcerer that has shackled them?
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    Using an extreme example, a shackled Liger that was bound as a 'trophy spouse' might decide to do their big 'NUKE EVERYONE FOR MY ENTRANCE' whenever entering a room, so that their 'partners' glory is understood by all.

    Zsofika might randomly enough all kinds of demonic prodigy follow behind in your wake, a trail of chaos and yozi taint that leads to you. Makarios does similar with his sigils, not to mention the usual complaints about cheated merchants and engaged guild allies.
     
    I dunno here. Maybe as an NPC thing it's alright, but I did remember a big argument a while back that making demons act as literal genie just added a frustrating element of exact-word gameism where you fight against the ST and have to pretend like you're writing up a contract, and apologies to @ManusDomine , but not everyone is a lawyerkin who loves RPing binding legal negotiations or exact wording. :V

    Basically, it seems that unless this is entirely meant to be an NPC thing, it introduces elements that I think it was pretty well argued (the hundreds of pages ago when it was) mess with using demons. That said, as an NPC thing it seems pretty thematic and cool.
     
    The Laurent said:
    I dunno here. Maybe as an NPC thing it's alright, but I did remember a big argument a while back that making demons act as literal genie just added a frustrating element of exact-word gameism where you fight against the ST and have to pretend like you're writing up a contract, and apologies to @ManusDomine , but not everyone is a lawyerkin who loves RPing binding legal negotiations or exact wording. :V

    Basically, it seems that unless this is entirely meant to be an NPC thing, it introduces elements that I think it was pretty well argued (the hundreds of pages ago when it was) mess with using demons. That said, as an NPC thing it seems pretty thematic and cool.
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    Eh, its mostly there to torment the Munchkin anyway.

    Most summoners have a safer way to do things!
     
    The Laurent said:
    I dunno here. Maybe as an NPC thing it's alright, but I did remember a big argument a while back that making demons act as literal genie just added a frustrating element of exact-word gameism where you fight against the ST and have to pretend like you're writing up a contract, and apologies to @ManusDomine , but not everyone is a lawyerkin who loves RPing binding legal negotiations or exact wording. :V
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    Well, just like @MJ12 Commando could tell you, that's because they are wrong.

    The Laurent said:
    Basically, it seems that unless this is entirely meant to be an NPC thing, it introduces elements that I think it was pretty well argued (the hundreds of pages ago when it was) mess with using demons. That said, as an NPC thing it seems pretty thematic and cool.
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    I don't know, it's an optional thing which means that lawyerkin like me can still use it and have fun with it; I can see no reason that it must be restricted so.
     
    The Laurent said:
    I dunno here. Maybe as an NPC thing it's alright, but I did remember a big argument a while back that making demons act as literal genie just added a frustrating element of exact-word gameism where you fight against the ST and have to pretend like you're writing up a contract, and apologies to @ManusDomine , but not everyone is a lawyerkin who loves RPing binding legal negotiations or exact wording. :V

    Basically, it seems that unless this is entirely meant to be an NPC thing, it introduces elements that I think it was pretty well argued (the hundreds of pages ago when it was) mess with using demons. That said, as an NPC thing it seems pretty thematic and cool.
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    Well, you could abstract that away by simply making it part of a roll for your Character to lawyer up with exact wordings. I may not be a lawyerkin, but maybe my Int 5 Twilight is? Though you'd probably need to make it so even with a really good roll, there's a chance of things going wrong.
     
    The Laurent said:
    I dunno here. Maybe as an NPC thing it's alright, but I did remember a big argument a while back that making demons act as literal genie just added a frustrating element of exact-word gameism where you fight against the ST and have to pretend like you're writing up a contract, and apologies to @ManusDomine , but not everyone is a lawyerkin who loves RPing binding legal negotiations or exact wording. :V

    Basically, it seems that unless this is entirely meant to be an NPC thing, it introduces elements that I think it was pretty well argued (the hundreds of pages ago when it was) mess with using demons. That said, as an NPC thing it seems pretty thematic and cool.
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    This may help put things into context.

    This isn't for Solaroids, not when it's being used for demons. Solaroids who do this are being fools, because they are effectively sticking their hand into a bear trap to recover a piece of chocolate that someone dropped on the ground when literally if they just waited they could get a piece of chocolate that someone didn't drop.

    This is mostly for other Celestials, Terrestrials, and non-gods. This is for the Lunar who really, really needs the services of a demon prince to restore an ancient manse. It's for the Sidereal who has a Genius Plan (tm) to shackle Ligier and interrogate him on the plans of the Yozis. It's for the Terrestrial who needs the power of a demon lord on their side when getting revenge on a Celestial.

    It's a carrot on a stick over a spiked pit, tempting those characters with being able to kinda-bind demons that they never normally could. The choice there isn't between "a safe way of summoning" and "a risky way of summoning" - it's between "a risky way of summoning" and "not being able to summon that class of being at all". It's so your Lunar sorcerer PC can, if they're really desperate, throw down with an Adamant Circle Twilight in a giant pokemon match.

    (and then it's also for everyone who decides to try to shackle a god and treat them like a demon, which ensues that Heaven really doesn't like you because gods hate being shackled. So there it's for hubrissssssssss)
     
    EarthScorpion said:
    This may help put things into context.

    This isn't for Solaroids, not when it's being used for demons. Solaroids who do this are being fools, because they are effectively sticking their hand into a bear trap to recover a piece of chocolate that someone dropped on the ground when literally if they just waited they could get a piece of chocolate that someone didn't drop.

    This is mostly for other Celestials, Terrestrials, and non-gods. This is for the Lunar who really, really needs the services of a demon prince to restore an ancient manse. It's for the Sidereal who has a Genius Plan (tm) to shackle Ligier and interrogate him on the plans of the Yozis. It's for the Terrestrial who needs the power of a demon lord on their side when getting revenge on a Celestial.

    It's a carrot on a stick over a spiked pit, tempting those characters with being able to kinda-bind demons that they never normally could. The choice there isn't between "a safe way of summoning" and "a risky way of summoning" - it's between "a risky way of summoning" and "not being able to summon that class of being at all". It's so your Lunar sorcerer PC can, if they're really desperate, throw down with an Adamant Circle Twilight in a giant pokemon match.

    (and then it's also for everyone who decides to try to shackle a god and treat them like a demon, which ensues that Heaven really doesn't like you because gods hate being shackled. So there it's for hubrissssssssss)
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    It's also there so that people who hate the gods can do shit like shackle the god of your hometown who didn't save them when bandit came by, so that he lives a life of torment and suffering at the feet of your Slayer, ordered not to do anything at all while being tortured, paraded around before the people you are trying to intimidate, and so on. It's cruel and unusual punishment, in addition to being a method of enslavement.
     
    Sydonai said:
    You can put really specific parameters on what you summon.
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    What's more specific than a name? And of course you can't specify that a demon knows sorcery, but there's nothing preventing you from specifiying Raris the flame-wasp, rather than some other, lesser, agatae that doesn't know sorcery. Of course, to do so requires that you know about Raris, Raris isn't bound by some other sorcerer, and that Raris hasn't been killed.

    The way I saw this handled was by spending some a dot or two on Ally(my personal demons) to represent the short list of, for lack of a better term, "heroic" 1CDs.
     
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