General Exalted Thread

[EarthScorpion]

Or to put it more accurately; "why bother, when you can't predict what your players are going to do and they keep gleefully running into what plans you have made and stabbing them to death in ways you didn't expect."

Click to shrink...

No, I was doing it back when I ran a 20 session Dark Heresy game back in sixth form. They went and pissed off the mutant tribe leader I'd deliberately made touchy, but potentially helpful. Then they got chased through toxic sewers by hundreds of giant mutated rats and rat-men and wound up using almost all their ammo by using too much full auto.

The guardsman with the lasgun was laughing at the priest who'd splashed out in Inferno Rounds for his combat shotgun.

 

[Aaron Peori]

Also, as soon as a player decides to use an unsafe summoning method, in my eyes they've just declared that the story is about their hubris and/or desperation. If they shackle a demon prince to aid them in their war against the invading Realm, that is a major strategic-scale action that the ST should be treating with similar importance to the Dawn's army.

Click to shrink...

Or perhaps instead of including a hidden 'fuck you player' spell that requires something on the order of ten paragraphs of explanation in a Storyteller section you can just... not include a hidden 'fuck you player' spell and instead just make it explicit that if the player wants to play a game about a dramatic hubris of reaching beyond his ability he can just say that to the GM and run that campaign than you stealth fucking him over?

 

[beowolf]

Or perhaps instead of including a hidden 'fuck you player' spell that requires something on the order of ten paragraphs of explanation in a Storyteller section you can just... not include a hidden 'fuck you player' spell and instead just make it explicit that if the player wants to play a game about a dramatic hubris of reaching beyond his ability he can just say that to the GM and run that campaign than you stealth fucking him over?

Click to shrink...

Where the hell is it hiding? This is the single most blatant thing I have ever seen, with the original description saying that this is dangerous, most people in universe are not arrogant enough to attempt it when there are better versions around, and it should backfire.

 

[Yonatan]

Where the hell is it hiding? This is the single most blatant thing I have ever seen, with the original description saying that this is dangerous, most people in universe are not arrogant enough to attempt it when there are better versions around, and it should backfire.

Click to shrink...

Except for vast majority of sorcerers in Creation, there is'nt a better version around. Offhand, there are around 1,000 sorcerers in the Realm alone, 400 of which are actually dedicated. The entire Lunar+Sidereal hosts number 400, and not all of them are sorcerers, let alone Sapphire Circle Sorcerers.

There are far more Dragon-Blooded around who know sorcery, as well as mortal sorcerers. In games that have more Dragon-Blooded around than canon's 10,000 for the Realm in total, you would have even more sorcerers.

In over 700 years since the Contagion, how many sorcerers do you think there would be? I realize ES intends this for the arrogant and hubristic character, but I don't think he fully considered the desperate character or the one who calculates risk-vs-reward. Think of how many wars or disasters in Creation would have a sorcerer benefit greatly from having a 2CD, or even allow them to survive at all. Sometimes a sorcerer could attempt this not because they are arrogant, but because they don't have a better option.

And when you bring that into play, you have others reacting to it. Consider a Dragon-Blooded Outacaste who's kingdom is invaded by the Realm. She desperately wants to save her homeland, and in desperation summons Octavian. "Ok", you think, "this is working as intended". Except now the Dynast commanders have to take this option into account. They might even decide that, with a couple dozen DB's around, including a group of Immaculate martial artists, they like their chances even if it backfires and summon their own 2CD. For this one war, the paradigm holds, more or less: a desperate sorceress summoned a being she could not fully control. A desperate Dynast general summoned his own 2CD in response.

Except now, its precedent. Next time, the Dynast commander will consider using a bound 2CD in a future encounter just in case the enemy is capable of summoning their own 2CD. Over time, the commander and his subordinates get pretty good at this. They use the same demons, they learn their tricks, they keep a significant amount of resources on hand to be able to deal with them. Sometimes it goes bad, and they have to fight a 2CD. Many other times, it works fine. They settle into a new routine, one where they are able to assess the risk of failure versus the reward of having a mostly reliable 2CD on their side.

You end up with a setting that will get used to the idea that you can summon a 2CD and has learned to work with it, because it lets any sorcerer potentially summon a 2CD. It is no longer the thing that happens once in a generation and becomes legend and a lesson in the Heptagram "this is why we don't summon 2CD's". It becomes routine. Risky, but people do risky shit on a routine basis all the time for the chance at high reward


This is my opinion, based on my own experience (which I admit is'nt much, since I only played one game for the past 2 years). Yeah, most players may look at this and go "nah, this is begging for trouble", but the setting as a whole will learn to live with it. This is why I believe this breaks the setting too much.

 

[azoicennead]

Or perhaps instead of including a hidden 'fuck you player' spell that requires something on the order of ten paragraphs of explanation in a Storyteller section you can just... not include a hidden 'fuck you player' spell and instead just make it explicit that if the player wants to play a game about a dramatic hubris of reaching beyond his ability he can just say that to the GM and run that campaign than you stealth fucking him over?

Click to shrink...

... How is this hidden? How is the fact that shackling spirits can screw you over hidden, Aaron?

A shackled spirit is not like a bound one. It does not wish to obey the orders it is given. The magic holds it like a choke-chain, and scours it if it does not obey. The spirit can resist the compulsions of the magic. The sorcerer must batter down their will if they wish their spirit to do something it does not wish to.

Click to shrink...

shackling a demon weaves a chain of spells around the creature's mind and body, forcing obedience through pain and compulsion.

Click to shrink...

Does this sound like a willing servant?
Do you assume that powerful entities who are bound against their will just shut up and accept the situation without attempting any retribution against their transgressors?

Question, @EarthScorpion: is the shackling spell cast once with 3 options for specific effect, or cast multiple times that gets stacked on itself for higher levels of control?

Man, that spell brings back some memories. Wow was that character a terrible person.

 

[Bursting Eagerness Soul]

Except for vast majority of sorcerers in Creation, there is'nt a better version around. Offhand, there are around 1,000 sorcerers in the Realm alone, 400 of which are actually dedicated. The entire Lunar+Sidereal hosts number 400, and not all of them are sorcerers, let alone Sapphire Circle Sorcerers.

There are far more Dragon-Blooded around who know sorcery, as well as mortal sorcerers. In games that have more Dragon-Blooded around than canon's 10,000 for the Realm in total, you would have even more sorcerers.

In over 700 years since the Contagion, how many sorcerers do you think there would be? I realize ES intends this for the arrogant and hubristic character, but I don't think he fully considered the desperate character or the one who calculates risk-vs-reward. Think of how many wars or disasters in Creation would have a sorcerer benefit greatly from having a 2CD, or even allow them to survive at all. Sometimes a sorcerer could attempt this not because they are arrogant, but because they don't have a better option.

And when you bring that into play, you have others reacting to it. Consider a Dragon-Blooded Outacaste who's kingdom is invaded by the Realm. She desperately wants to save her homeland, and in desperation summons Octavian. "Ok", you think, "this is working as intended". Except now the Dynast commanders have to take this option into account. They might even decide that, with a couple dozen DB's around, including a group of Immaculate martial artists, they like their chances even if it backfires and summon their own 2CD. For this one war, the paradigm holds, more or less: a desperate sorceress summoned a being she could not fully control. A desperate Dynast general summoned his own 2CD in response.

Except now, its precedent. Next time, the Dynast commander will consider using a bound 2CD in a future encounter just in case the enemy is capable of summoning their own 2CD. Over time, the commander and his subordinates get pretty good at this. They use the same demons, they learn their tricks, they keep a significant amount of resources on hand to be able to deal with them. Sometimes it goes bad, and they have to fight a 2CD. Many other times, it works fine. They settle into a new routine, one where they are able to assess the risk of failure versus the reward of having a mostly reliable 2CD on their side.

You end up with a setting that will get used to the idea that you can summon a 2CD and has learned to work with it, because it lets any sorcerer potentially summon a 2CD. It is no longer the thing that happens once in a generation and becomes legend and a lesson in the Heptagram "this is why we don't summon 2CD's". It becomes routine. Risky, but people do risky shit on a routine basis all the time for the chance at high reward


This is my opinion, based on my own experience (which I admit is'nt much, since I only played one game for the past 2 years). Yeah, most players may look at this and go "nah, this is begging for trouble", but the setting as a whole will learn to live with it. This is why I believe this breaks the setting too much.

Click to shrink...

Or, and I might be making wild claims here, it could just be too fucking hard to become the norm. Like, this doesn't have mechanics right now, but let's assume that it uses the same binding roll as the Akumatizing spell from a page before, where the difficulty is [Essence + 5]. For something of Essence 5 or above, you have a difficulty of 10 or more. Given that the Dragonblood dice cap is 23, there is a non-trivial chance of failure for even a relatively low-Essence 2CD. Once you get to the big boys (E7), you are hitting about a straight 50-50 success chance. For every person that tries to bind Octavian like this and succeeds, there's one that fails and likely gets their shit wrecked. And that's just looking at the hyper-optimised characters throwing the maximum amount of dice. Anyone with less than literally world class capabilities at this highly specifc thing is going to be facing an even higher failure rate.

 

[Yonatan]

Or, and I might be making wild claims here, it could just be too fucking hard to become the norm. Like, this doesn't have mechanics right now, but let's assume that it uses the same binding roll as the Akumatizing spell from a page before, where the difficulty is [Essence + 5]. For something of Essence 5 or above, you have a difficulty of 10 or more. Given that the Dragonblood dice cap is 23, there is a non-trivial chance of failure for even a relatively low-Essence 2CD. Once you get to the big boys (E7), you are hitting about a straight 50-50 success chance. For every person that tries to bind Octavian like this and succeeds, there's one that fails and likely gets their shit wrecked. And that's just looking at the hyper-optimised characters throwing the maximum amount of dice. Anyone with less than literally world class capabilities at this highly specifc thing is going to be facing an even higher failure rate.

Click to shrink...

True, but organized groups would have the resources to attain higher success ratios and at lower risk from failure. The Realm could have dedicated sorcerers who have achieved the needed skill and Essence levels to do this more or less reliably. So could Lookshy. They would also have the resources to avoid most of the negative results of a failure. This gives them a massive edge over the lone sorcerer desperate for power, because when the lone sorcerer summons Octavian and fucks it up, he dies messily. When the Heptagram sorcerer fails, he has a team of Immacualte Monks, a bunch of sorcerers and maybe a Warstrider Fang ready, so a failed roll results in Octavian getting sent back to Malfeas in short order rather than being free in Creation and easily killing the sorcerer.

The Realm and Lookshy are able to thus more or less reliably get 2CD's to add to their already large advantages. Over time, they get specific demons who's MO they've learned, so they minimise how much they can get screwed from a 2CD interperting orders to screw them, and can use said 2CD's for specific tasks.

Instead of the lone mad sorcerer, its the team of experts who gain a massive and unfair advantage. If the difficulty is indeed this high, no one other than such a team or a complete retard would use this. The entire point of this is to summon a demon and not have the risk be in the original binding roll (like normal summoning spells), but from having an unwilling demon bound to your service and trying to fuck you over at first chance. If you want that and make the binding roll even more difficult than normal, then hell, why even bother pretending the spell is ment to be used by hubristic characters with a chance of success? Its clearly aimed to fail 99% of the times and always Bad End. Every player who takes it would literally be asking his GM to fuck him over.

 

[pheonix89]

True, but organized groups would have the resources to attain higher success ratios and at lower risk from failure. The Realm could have dedicated sorcerers who have achieved the needed skill and Essence levels to do this more or less reliably. So could Lookshy. They would also have the resources to avoid most of the negative results of a failure. This gives them a massive edge over the lone sorcerer desperate for power, because when the lone sorcerer summons Octavian and fucks it up, he dies messily. When the Heptagram sorcerer fails, he has a team of Immacualte Monks, a bunch of sorcerers and maybe a Warstrider Fang ready, so a failed roll results in Octavian getting sent back to Malfeas in short order rather than being free in Creation and easily killing the sorcerer.

The Realm and Lookshy are able to thus more or less reliably get 2CD's to add to their already large advantages. Over time, they get specific demons who's MO they've learned, so they minimise how much they can get screwed from a 2CD interperting orders to screw them, and can use said 2CD's for specific tasks.

Instead of the lone mad sorcerer, its the team of experts who gain a massive and unfair advantage. If the difficulty is indeed this high, no one other than such a team or a complete retard would use this. The entire point of this is to summon a demon and not have the risk be in the original binding roll (like normal summoning spells), but from having an unwilling demon bound to your service and trying to fuck you over at first chance. If you want that and make the binding roll even more difficult than normal, then hell, why even bother pretending the spell is ment to be used by hubristic characters with a chance of success? Its clearly aimed to fail 99% of the times and always Bad End. Every player who takes it would literally be asking his GM to fuck him over.

Click to shrink...

Except at that point it's more efficient to summon high-end 1CDs.

Amping up the shackling weakens the demon. A 3 binding 2cd is NOT stronger than a mid-high DB, is just a bit stronger than a heroic 1CD, and is flat-out weaker than most sublimati.

For the effort you're proposing you get more bang with research and Demon of the FIrst Circle.

This spell is designed so that if you can use it safely, using it AT ALL is suboptimal.

 

[Yonatan]

Except at that point it's more efficient to summon high-end 1CDs.

Amping up the shackling weakens the demon. A 3 binding 2cd is NOT substantially stronger than a mid-high DB, is just a bit stronger than a heroic 1CD, and is flat-out weaker than most sublimati.

For the effort you're proposing you get more bang with research and Demon of the FIrst Circle.

This spell is designed so that if you can use it safely, using it AT ALL is suboptimal.

Click to shrink...

I'll bow out of this arguement then. I don't have much experience with demon summoning anyway, and my limited experience may not be enough to make a proper judgement.

 

[EarthScorpion]

Question, @EarthScorpion: is the shackling spell cast once with 3 options for specific effect, or cast multiple times that gets stacked on itself for higher levels of control?

Man, that spell brings back some memories. Wow was that character a terrible person.

Click to shrink...

As I currently envision it, you cast the spell once, successfully make the binding roll, and you now have a once-shackled spirit. Then you cast it again, successfully make the binding roll again, committing another background, and you have a twice-shackled spirit. And you cast it a third time, make the binding roll a third time, committing a third background, and you have a thrice-shackled spirit. And you can release shackles, and then spend time recasting them. And since they're independent spells, thrice-shackling a spirit serves to protect you somewhat from someone using Emerald Circle Countermagic to release a demon who really hates you and you've been torturing into obedience.

As I already said, that's a clear and present danger of shackling a demon. You get to use a lower level of circle to control it. Bully for you. That means that everyone else gets to dispel it more easily.

And yes, that does mean that the wise sorcerer keeps their spirit thrice-shackled even if they intend to unshackle them for a battle. And that enables "release control art restriction system" moments.

I can pretty much tell you how I'd use it if I was using it as a player, because I thought of how I'd abuse it, and there's basically two main uses that I might consider worth the risk:

1. Information. Thrice-shackle the demon, and basically pump it for information. You don't need it to be strong for that, and by thrice-shackling it it has to obey the spirit of your requests. That allows you to ask it questions and get knowledge from it - and takes advantage of how a 2CD, even a weakened one, will know things a 1CD doesn't. This also has the advantage of being one of the most common "historical" uses of demons - just look how many of the demons in the Ars Goetia are there to teach people things.
2. Alucard. Thrice-shackle the demon, and keep it hidden away, making sure to renew the shackles frequently. Keep it as my secret trump card. If things go really south for me, bring it out, and release it down to twice-shackled, fill it with rage against my enemies using the Emotion effect, and then unleash it on them. I never lower it to once-shackled, because a twice-shackled demon is one that when it gets countermagiced you can command to return to Malfeas while a demon that was once-shackled and then got hit with Emerald Circle Countermagic is right here on the battlefield, free, and exceedingly angry at you. And probably wants to drag you off to Hell with it. Or just eat your face.

 

[Ct613hulu]

How would the setting of Exalted change as a result of the presence of this new spell? I would imagine that giving sorcerers the ability to control entities that would normally be to powerful or of a class that cannot be bound could potentially lead to substantial changes in the setting.

One example of this is that it should be relatively simple for Elder Lunar Sorcerers to use this spell to acquire several Third Circle Demons that they could use as tools for the development of mega-projects or as weapons of mass destruction. I would expect that this would have significant implications for Creation as it would drastically increase the power of the Elder Lunar Sorcerers in their capacity of individuals actors and would mean that they could go much further in pursuing their personnel vendettas.

 

[azoicennead]

As I currently envision it, you cast the spell once, successfully make the binding roll, and you now have a once-shackled spirit. Then you cast it again, successfully make the binding roll again, committing another background, and you have a twice-shackled spirit. And you cast it a third time, make the binding roll a third time, committing a third background, and you have a thrice-shackled spirit. And you can release shackles, and then spend time recasting them. And since they're independent spells, thrice-shackling a spirit serves to protect you somewhat from someone using Emerald Circle Countermagic to release a demon who really hates you and you've been torturing into obedience.

As I already said, that's a clear and present danger of shackling a demon. You get to use a lower level of circle to control it. Bully for you. That means that everyone else gets to dispel it more easily.

And yes, that does mean that the wise sorcerer keeps their spirit thrice-shackled even if they intend to unshackle them for a battle. And that enables "release control art restriction system" moments.

I can pretty much tell you how I'd use it if I was using it as a player, because I thought of how I'd abuse it, and there's basically two main uses that I might consider worth the risk:

1. Information. Thrice-shackle the demon, and basically pump it for information. You don't need it to be strong for that, and by thrice-shackling it it has to obey the spirit of your requests. That allows you to ask it questions and get knowledge from it - and takes advantage of how a 2CD, even a weakened one, will know things a 1CD doesn't. This also has the advantage of being one of the most common "historical" uses of demons - just look how many of the demons in the Ars Goetia are there to teach people things.
2. Alucard. Thrice-shackle the demon, and keep it hidden away, making sure to renew the shackles frequently. Keep it as my secret trump card. If things go really south for me, bring it out, and release it down to twice-shackled, fill it with rage against my enemies using the Emotion effect, and then unleash it on them. I never lower it to once-shackled, because a twice-shackled demon is one that when it gets countermagiced you can command to return to Malfeas while a demon that was once-shackled and then got hit with Emerald Circle Countermagic is right here on the battlefield, free, and exceedingly angry at you. And probably wants to drag you off to Hell with it. Or just eat your face.

Click to shrink...

This is one of those moments where I realize I'm way too used to playing absolutely terrible people, because I saw these lines:

The sorcerer may now impose any negative emotion on the spirit with a word - anger, fear, pain and so on.

Click to shrink...

The sorcerer is now not limited to negative emotions and may make them feel any Emotion at all.

Click to shrink...

and my mind immediately jumped to "oh, hey, I can brainwash them."
... I worry myself sometimes.

 

[Salty]

That's...pretty clearly what those lines are intended to mean, though.

 

[Azrael]

That's...pretty clearly what those lines are intended to mean, though.

Click to shrink...

I believe he means... like, the Demon does something you don't like, you cause pain. It does something you do like, and you cause pleasure. If Demons are at all like humans and other animals, they'll start feeling those things even if you don't directly cause them.

Brainwashing.

 

[azoicennead]

That's...pretty clearly what those lines are intended to mean, though.

Click to shrink...

I suspect you're thinking of a less... thorough brainwashing than what I mean, because I mean "turn them into a willing servant that actively works to advance my interests as best as they're able and is bound to me as much by their own will as mine". Apply positive emotions when they're doing what I want them to, apply negative emotions when they don't. Reinforce with measures that don't rely on the shackle spell(s). Repeat until I've reached a point where someone hitting them with countermagic to remove the shackles just means they ask me to put the spell back on after the battle.
Y'know.
Brainwashing.

 

[SinisterPorpoise]

Y'know.
Brainwashing.

Click to shrink...

Yes, Pavlovian conditioning via emotion control is the obvious thing that the wording is hinting at.
It's really blatant.

 

[Accelerator]

How would the setting of Exalted change as a result of the presence of this new spell? I would imagine that giving sorcerers the ability to control entities that would normally be to powerful or of a class that cannot be bound could potentially lead to substantial changes in the setting.

One example of this is that it should be relatively simple for Elder Lunar Sorcerers to use this spell to acquire several Third Circle Demons that they could use as tools for the development of mega-projects or as weapons of mass destruction. I would expect that this would have significant implications for Creation as it would drastically increase the power of the Elder Lunar Sorcerers in their capacity of individuals actors and would mean that they could go much further in pursuing their personnel vendettas.

Click to shrink...

Well, since 2nd circle demons are the mores specialized ones that can do jobs you want...

I strongly suspect that the magical infrastructure of the shogunate and the realm would be better maintained.

 

[meianmaru]

Wave-and-Fire Possession Rite

Click to shrink...

I didn't comment this much when it was posted, but I'm qurious about how you are going to implement it in Kerisgame for the purpose Keris made it in the first place: letting her use her non-stupid Gales that (for pure storytelling reasons) freaked out when they were made and didn't have a coadjutor playing music in their head.

First off, this spell's ritual is pretty long and requires Resource 5 materials from the "parent titan" of the 1CD. Does that mean materials from Krisity, blood of Keris, and other such things? And if I'm right, wouldn't this make it massively cheaper and easier to access for Infernals delving in soul-heresy? Is that a purposeful design feature (again, if I'm even right in the first place about this)?

And how does reintegrating a Gale enhanced by this spell work? If its a coadjutor derived Gale-based 1CD (like in Kerisgame for Keris, obviously), does it get integrated back too to the coadjutor? Or does the ritual actually metaphysically separate the newborn akuma from the Infernal permanently, making reintegration impossible? The last doesn't seem likely if used with the specific example of coadjuator 1CD Gales, as it is pretty much against the interest of Keris who was been designing the spell mainly to accomplish a very specific purpose. But what about if you infuse a different kind of demon to the Gale?

And the timescale when compared to just making Gales is also pretty long. Could you develop some charm-tech expansion to the Splintered-Gale Shintai that would let you "store" Gales after the Shintai activation inside your lungs before actually externalizing them, holding them in a state where you could modify them before releasing them? Hopefully without a Chrysalis Grotesque suddenly popping up in your lungs if you cast the WaFPR on them while the half-formed Gale is still inside there. Maybe some kind of heretical Charm with a prerequisite of Mother of Monster or something like that?

 

[EarthScorpion]

I didn't comment this much when it was posted, but I'm qurious about how you are going to implement it in Kerisgame for the purpose Keris made it in the first place: letting her use her non-stupid Gales that (for pure storytelling reasons) freaked out when they were made and didn't have a coadjutor playing music in their head.

Click to shrink...

Honestly, I'm pretty bored of this plotline so once she casts the spell on a Gale and then reabsorbs her, her body will probably "learn" how to make Gales with Dulmea-Gales as coadjutor-Gales. The mechanical impact of a Gale having that background is slim and is mostly an RP thing.

Like, at a fundamental level, the spell is not "made" to resolve that issue - it's there to let me handwave it out the way. The spell exists so Keris has a tool to fuse her favoured human agents with demons that descend from her, making them her descendents (lol Kimbery, because if they're also loyal to her that makes them beloved) and helping Keris' "made from villain parts" schtick because it now means that the sinister villain with a contract with Hell can take mortal servants of hers and turn them into demonic hybrid monsters.

After all, those hybrids get (Coadjutor) Flesh Extravagance, so that means you can literally give them a mutant form that they can access by using Alternate Form and tying the mutations to that.

 

[meianmaru]

Honestly, I'm pretty bored of this plotline so once she casts the spell on a Gale and then reabsorbs her, her body will probably "learn" how to make Gales with Dulmea-Gales as coadjutor-Gales. The mechanical impact of a Gale having that background is slim and is mostly an RP thing.

Click to shrink...

I have to admit, that is more mechanically simplistic and elegant than any of my suggestions. I tend to go for convuluted solutions when there exist an obvious simple one.

Like, at a fundamental level, the spell is not "made" to resolve that issue - it's there to let me handwave it out the way. The spell exists so Keris has a tool to fuse her favoured human agents with demons that descend from her, making them her descendents (lol Kimbery, because if they're also loyal to her that makes them beloved) and helping Keris' "made from villain parts" schtick because it now means that the sinister villain with a contract with Hell can take mortal servants of hers and turn them into demonic hybrid monsters.

After all, those hybrids get (Coadjutor) Flesh Extravagance, so that means you can literally give them a mutant form that they can access by using Alternate Form and tying the mutations to that.

Click to shrink...

This raises another question of mine: how strong can they grow? If they are unaging like demons (or most non-mortal akuma by Kerisgame hacks), they might have the time to do by so gradually unless they meet their (probably violent) ends early on in their new state. Or could you strenghten them with other methods that are faster than just training plus other "natural" methods, or maybe take them even further than they naturally could? Could have, if you spent as much effort in them as other akuma-creation methods, have your quirky mini-boss squad of hybrid-leaders that with proper support could prove to be at least some hindrance to even to (some of) the Exalted?

 

[EarthScorpion]

This raises another question of mine: how strong can they grow? If they are unaging like demons (or most non-mortal akuma by Kerisgame hacks), they might have the time to do by so gradually unless they meet their (probably violent) ends early on in their new state. Or could you strenghten them with other methods that are faster than just training plus other "natural" methods, or maybe take them even further than they naturally could? Could have, if you spent as much effort in them as other akuma-creation methods, have your quirky mini-boss squad of hybrid-leaders that with proper support could prove to be at least some hindrance to even to (some of) the Exalted?

Click to shrink...

The mechanics are pretty clear as to their intended purpose and power level. They're 1CD-level, who can't be banished but who are always Material and who die when they're killed.

So, I mean, sure, if you want to put a lot more effort and investment into them you could make them more powerful. But that'll be other spells and workings doing it. This is just a way to basically cram a 1CD into a mortal servant and get a hybrid that's about as strong as the demon - and thus is literally a monster to mortals, but which is no replacement for having actual Dragonblooded working for you.

 

[BossFight]

Over at giant in the playground forums someone has started a series of homebrew that ports Exalted into 3.5. The state goal is to create 3.5 classes that are as good as casters, but it's pretty clear they are at the very least inspired by exalted. I really like his take on the anti-paladin as a Malfean infernal, though he has some other ones to.

[3.5] "Five billion souls incinerated in the doom of the gods."

Though his Abyssal is really good to.

"Your pain shall be legendary."

They aren't all 100% finished, but they still look really good, and have some great ideas for charms. One thing his anti-paladin gets at later levels is the ability to create warlocks, as part of his Magnanimous Warding Glyph charm tree, which I think works really well as an expansion of the existing charm.

 

[Cosar]

Over at giant in the playground forums someone has started a series of homebrew that ports Exalted into 3.5. The state goal is to create 3.5 classes that are as good as casters, but it's pretty clear they are at the very least inspired by exalted. I really like his take on the anti-paladin as a Malfean infernal, though he has some other ones to.

[3.5] "Five billion souls incinerated in the doom of the gods."

Though his Abyssal is really good to.

"Your pain shall be legendary."

They aren't all 100% finished, but they still look really good, and have some great ideas for charms. One thing his anti-paladin gets at later levels is the ability to create warlocks, as part of his Magnanimous Warding Glyph charm tree, which I think works really well as an expansion of the existing charm.

Click to shrink...

That project is close to two years old, so started isn't exactly the right word. It's also so far removed from Exalted that there's not much to talk about here: it's dnd with extremely lose exalted references. It would fit more into the DnD thread, especially if you want to talk about the mechanics.

 

[BossFight]

That project is close to two years old, so started isn't exactly the right word. It's also so far removed from Exalted that there's not much to talk about here: it's dnd with extremely lose exalted references. It would fit more into the DnD thread, especially if you want to talk about the mechanics.

Click to shrink...

Eh, I'm not really that interested in the mechanics. Just thought you guys might find it interesting.

 

[meianmaru]

The mechanics are pretty clear as to their intended purpose and power level. They're 1CD-level, who can't be banished but who are always Material and who die when they're killed.

So, I mean, sure, if you want to put a lot more effort and investment into them you could make them more powerful. But that'll be other spells and workings doing it. This is just a way to basically cram a 1CD into a mortal servant and get a hybrid that's about as strong as the demon - and thus is literally a monster to mortals, but which is no replacement for having actual Dragonblooded working for you.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, that was one of the things I wanted to know if you could do. I think it would be just a cool start-off point for slowly crafting your own elite minions, just as an alternative to other options and mostly for thematics. First, you continously handpick mortals you come across, who you then elevate to 1CD -level with a bit more versatility than your regular demons. If they survive for long enough and prove their worth, you further handpick those you favor most among them, and then gift them more and more power, making them better at their work while also giving them further incentives to fulfill your will (aside from those sorcerous compulsions).

That this would fit the thematic of a villain shoving more and more demonic power inside his minions to match the heroes and their companions who keep growing stronger by training/winning battles/etc. is something I find to desirable for how I believe people would play a game where you could do that. Maybe also teach a chosen few how to use Terrestial sorcery (or pick mortals who already know it), so that you can have cults who can slowly grow their number of hybrids by themselves via conducting foul infernal rituals.