- Location
- Singapore
Isn't that basically the Eclipse power?
General Exalted Thread
Technically, if you are skilled at Geomancy and have a long time to work with you can set up conditions where cultivating Jade is possible by duplicating the conditions where it would form naturally.
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EarthScorpion Sorcery Homebrew: Wave-and-Fire Possession Rite
Wave-and-Fire Possession Rite
Price: 20m, Resources 5; Circle: Emerald; Anchor: (Applicable Authority Over Demons or Devas) 3
Target: One willing mortal, enlightened mortal or akuma, one willing first circle demon or deva
Spell Duration: Instant; Casting Duration: 6 hour ritual
Essence Aspect: Hellish, Titanic; Favoured Aspect: None
There are many rites and spells within Hell that allow a demon to possess or impersonate a mortal. The Wave-and-Fire Possession Rite is a recent creation of a Green Sun Princess based on her own experience of her unwoven coadjutor, intended to allow a chosen cultist to transcend their mortality and fuse with a chosen demon. With research, a sorcerer might modify it to work for Gaian or Autochthonian devas instead.
Ritual: The sorcerer invokes their authority over the demon and commands it to inhabit the body of the host, who is ritually prepared to become a vessel for the demon. The targets must be willing if they are self-aware, though they need not fully understand what the consequences will entail. The six hour-long ritual involving the sorcerer, the demon and the host begins at sunset. The body of the host is prepared with lavishly expensive unguents and appropriate ritual ingredients from the demon's parent titan, costing Resources 5. Other ritual behaviour and preparation must also be carried out, in line with the demon's themes.
Mechanics: The host must have Essence 3 or lower. At the end of the ritual, the sorcerer rolls her Intelligence + Occult at difficulty (5+ demon's Essence). Failure means the spell shatters as if counterspelled. Success means the demon loses coherent form, coalescing around the host and forming something similar to the Chrysalis Grotesque. They remain in this chrysalis for an entire day, hatching at midnight the next day. The host must roll Stamina + Integrity, at a difficulty of the demon's Essence. Stunts by the sorcerer on the ritual roll also enhance this roll. On a failure the host and the demon both die messily.
Effects: If the spell succeeds, the host suffers a process metaphysically equivalent to death, permanently fusing with the demon and forming an akuma with Essence equal to the demon. The akuma resembles the mortal host, but he enjoys the benefit of (Coadjutor) Flesh Extravagance and possesses the Coadjutor background from the consciousness of the demon within his skull. He possesses the higher of the Attributes and Abilities of the demon and the host, and knows all the Spirit Charms that the demon or Host knew. Sentient hosts are usually in control of the new being, but if commanded by the sorcerer the demon assumes control. Commands from the sorcerer to the demon are unnatural Compulsions which cost 1wp per scene to resist. Non-sentient hosts are ruled by the mind of the demon, though they will display some of the host's instincts.
Price: 20m, Resources 5; Circle: Emerald; Anchor: (Applicable Authority Over Demons or Devas) 3
Target: One willing mortal, enlightened mortal or akuma, one willing first circle demon or deva
Spell Duration: Instant; Casting Duration: 6 hour ritual
Essence Aspect: Hellish, Titanic; Favoured Aspect: None
There are many rites and spells within Hell that allow a demon to possess or impersonate a mortal. The Wave-and-Fire Possession Rite is a recent creation of a Green Sun Princess based on her own experience of her unwoven coadjutor, intended to allow a chosen cultist to transcend their mortality and fuse with a chosen demon. With research, a sorcerer might modify it to work for Gaian or Autochthonian devas instead.
Ritual: The sorcerer invokes their authority over the demon and commands it to inhabit the body of the host, who is ritually prepared to become a vessel for the demon. The targets must be willing if they are self-aware, though they need not fully understand what the consequences will entail. The six hour-long ritual involving the sorcerer, the demon and the host begins at sunset. The body of the host is prepared with lavishly expensive unguents and appropriate ritual ingredients from the demon's parent titan, costing Resources 5. Other ritual behaviour and preparation must also be carried out, in line with the demon's themes.
Mechanics: The host must have Essence 3 or lower. At the end of the ritual, the sorcerer rolls her Intelligence + Occult at difficulty (5+ demon's Essence). Failure means the spell shatters as if counterspelled. Success means the demon loses coherent form, coalescing around the host and forming something similar to the Chrysalis Grotesque. They remain in this chrysalis for an entire day, hatching at midnight the next day. The host must roll Stamina + Integrity, at a difficulty of the demon's Essence. Stunts by the sorcerer on the ritual roll also enhance this roll. On a failure the host and the demon both die messily.
Effects: If the spell succeeds, the host suffers a process metaphysically equivalent to death, permanently fusing with the demon and forming an akuma with Essence equal to the demon. The akuma resembles the mortal host, but he enjoys the benefit of (Coadjutor) Flesh Extravagance and possesses the Coadjutor background from the consciousness of the demon within his skull. He possesses the higher of the Attributes and Abilities of the demon and the host, and knows all the Spirit Charms that the demon or Host knew. Sentient hosts are usually in control of the new being, but if commanded by the sorcerer the demon assumes control. Commands from the sorcerer to the demon are unnatural Compulsions which cost 1wp per scene to resist. Non-sentient hosts are ruled by the mind of the demon, though they will display some of the host's instincts.
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- Location
- Wörms, the half continent
Actually, can someone answer something for me?
What is a Gaian deva? Are they elementals?
What is a Gaian deva? Are they elementals?
IIRC they are called "Kami", next to nothing is known about them besides the fact that they are not Elementals.
They're just Gaia's soul hierarchy, her Third Circles and Second Circles and probably her First Circles.
Demons were known as Deva before the Primordial War. After their defeat, they became known as demons.
- Location
- Pittsburgh, PA
... Wouldn't the departure of Gaea's world-body mark the end of all life in Creation, since she's literally the bedrock on which Creation was built? Without her, Creation unspools, the Elemental Poles disintegrate, and all that is plummets into the Deep Wyld and is annihilated.
So, comments on the spell @Aleph invented for Keris (and then I actually implemented).
... yeah, it's pretty much classic "pact with a demon" tech. You willingly embrace a demon, shed your mortality, and the sorcerer binds a demon into you which you fuse with. You think you're in control, but actually the sorcerer can order the demon to take over any time. On the plus side, you're now already a demon (lulz), and you're much more than mortal - but you can still pass as mortal, or demon-blooded at worst.
Presumably there are higher essence upgrades to this kind of spelltech at higher Celestial Circles for things like the modified Demon of the Second Circle where you bind a 2CD into a mortal to make a 40k-style demonhost.
... hmm. Now that I think about it, I'm tempted to make the 2CD-level version of that into an Emerald Circle spell, and the 3CD version into a Sapphire Circle and then make it entirely clear that this is unsafe spelltech and that while standard demon summoning means you can avoid literal genie bullshit, making a demonhost gives you no such guarantees - and if someone breaks the binding collar on the demonhost, they're freed entirely.
Hmm. Does it break the setting too much if reckless Dragonblooded can try to bind a 2CD into a mortal and control it, at the small, small, not-actually-that-small risk of it subverting their intent? Obviously such a spell would be horribly illegal in the Realm and all civilised places, but there's always the temptation for a Terrestrial who needs a 2CD, or a Celestial who needs a 3CD, to try it.
And of course, obviously you're effectively capping their Essence while they're bound, which locks off their highest powers. And so the more lightly you bind them, the more powers your servant has...
... yeah, it's pretty much classic "pact with a demon" tech. You willingly embrace a demon, shed your mortality, and the sorcerer binds a demon into you which you fuse with. You think you're in control, but actually the sorcerer can order the demon to take over any time. On the plus side, you're now already a demon (lulz), and you're much more than mortal - but you can still pass as mortal, or demon-blooded at worst.
Presumably there are higher essence upgrades to this kind of spelltech at higher Celestial Circles for things like the modified Demon of the Second Circle where you bind a 2CD into a mortal to make a 40k-style demonhost.
... hmm. Now that I think about it, I'm tempted to make the 2CD-level version of that into an Emerald Circle spell, and the 3CD version into a Sapphire Circle and then make it entirely clear that this is unsafe spelltech and that while standard demon summoning means you can avoid literal genie bullshit, making a demonhost gives you no such guarantees - and if someone breaks the binding collar on the demonhost, they're freed entirely.
Hmm. Does it break the setting too much if reckless Dragonblooded can try to bind a 2CD into a mortal and control it, at the small, small, not-actually-that-small risk of it subverting their intent? Obviously such a spell would be horribly illegal in the Realm and all civilised places, but there's always the temptation for a Terrestrial who needs a 2CD, or a Celestial who needs a 3CD, to try it.
And of course, obviously you're effectively capping their Essence while they're bound, which locks off their highest powers. And so the more lightly you bind them, the more powers your servant has...
- Location
- Spain
Honestly? Probably yes. Because Exalted demons aren't in no way like 40k Daemons, and there are way too many of them that can be reasonably bargained with.
So unless the procedure is something utterly horrifying that no sane demon would voluntary subject itself too, is probably too abusable.
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- Location
- Pittsburgh, PA
The real concern would be a Second Circle soul (or Dragons forbid, an Unquestionable) trying to manipulate a cult into summoning them forth into living flesh, so that they could walk Creation hidden behind a mortal mask.
- Location
- Pittsburgh, PA
The downside is that you'd have to bank on the demon's priorities and your priorities remaining mostly simpatico - a Yozic cultist might well be fine with letting their lord take the wheel at its discretion, but a Dynast who thinks they can boss around something like Octavian is going to have a bad time.
I'd make it so that Terrestrial Circle Sorcerers who try to make an SCD daemonhost still have to attempt a binding check, or can otherwise end up in a situation where they're not entirely in control - and if things go wrong...
Well, the Bartimaeus Trilogy had some nice pointers on how inviting a powerful extradimensional being into your soul, then trying to give it orders, can turn out.
Aaron Peori
Rest in Peace
You probably meant ascetic here, unless they merely emulate the appearance of Immaculate lifestyles for the purposes of appreciating its beauty. Which may be entirely valid for what they are doing.
Azrael
Sakura Saber
- Location
- Throne of Heroes
In a word, no, because this is explicitly what she did- she packed up and left Creation on Gnosis to look for the Shining Answer. The only part of Gaia that remains on Creation is her human jouten.
Oh yes, the intent was fully that you'd have to make a normal binding roll to trap it in your mortal victim. If you fail, you just fucked up and released it entirely. The trick here is that you're getting a less secure binding at a lower circle where the demon gets to literal-genie you; you still have to bind it if you even want the literal-genie level of obedience.
And you have to bind it with that spell, because you're summoning it into the body directly. You can't just summon it and then let it go - you're basically summoning the demon into a metaphysical iron maiden.
... it probably gets to try to send you back to Hell in its place if you fail the binding roll.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
Annnnnnnd immediately upon reading this, the note that the chrysalis both forms and hatches at midnight means my first thought was to revise the scene showcasing the original Tripartite-Soul Akuma Rite in my own mind so that Keris would go "And here's one we prepared earlier!"
Also, I'm curious, is it the host specifically who's responsible for the roll to resist the sorcerer's command, or can the demon also make that roll?
Nope.
Creation was based on Gaia, but is not literally built on her.
Remember, Creation was a group project by the Primordials to make something new. If they were just hanging out in someone's world body, it wouldn't be much different from Zen-Mu.
*me waggles hand*
I'm honestly sort of hesitant for this sort of spell.
On one hand, trading more power for less control isn't a terribly new idea and it could reasonably fit in. On the other hand, the main reason that Exalted demon summoning sticks out is because of how it subverts things.
You aren't a dumbass or evil or a combination of the two just because you summon demons. When you summon something, you don't get a malicious literal genie out to dick you over at the earliest opportunity. You get a get a loyal(ish) servant that put sincere effort into fulfilling your orders.
Your demons can still screw you over if you're stupid about things, but its less active malevolence and more the result of an alien intelligence behaving in the manner it thought appropriate.
If you want to go break something's face, you can summon up a blood ape and tell it to go after the guy, it'll do just fine. If you tell it to guard a place, it'll probably do so by brutally slaughtering every possible threat nearby(along with every cat) and setting up grim trophies of its kills as a warning to others.
It does this because that's how a blood ape thinks. In its world view, those actions are completely logical ways to go about disposing of present threats, staving off future ones, and exterminating the abomination against nature that are cats.
It's not trying to betray you or to give away your position by guarding a place in a highly attention getting manner. It's just a blood ape being itself.
With Demon Summoning, your summons comes back to bite you if you pick the wrong demon for the job or if you aren't mindful of their needs. You don't summon blood apes when you want discrete leg breakers and if you're going to use decanthropes, you don't make two or more of them work together.
In short, demon summoning with the demon potentially subverting your orders as opposed to fulfilling them in accordance to an inhuman intellect doesn't really feel thematic for Exalted.
- Location
- NOVA
My immediate thought for a reason why the demon may not want to take part in this, and this not have a setting breaking issue, revolves around vulnerability.
If the mortal host of a second circle can hit just above DB level potency at best and the demon is vulnerable to spirit killers, then there's a very big risk to allowing this. They'll be 'free', but also in a form that's weaker than their normal form and also will be more directly hunted. Being summoned into a host by their culture would be very dangerous as a result.
In the summoner's side, binding a creature like this could leave them with a being that is not bound as strongly by the surrender oaths. Through the mortal, the demon can directly enact its own goals, which should give most DBs pause. The host probably shouldn't be able to play this off as just being demon blooded too. Each second circle should have specific traits that its hosts take on which mark them as more influenced than a mortal can be.
Hmm, for making it riskier for the demon, maybe a failed binding results in some of their essence being left behind, weakening them for a longer time than it takes to simply reform. 1 year per margin of failure?
I disagree here, and this is why:
The idea here is that this method would be hilariously illegal in the Realm. As, "no, you idiot, we send Wyld Hunts after Dragonblooded who do it". And likewise, Sidereals who do it and get found out get arrested on suspicions of Infernalism. And Lunars who do it... well, the Lunars are a little more liberal about it and it gets justified with "the ends justify the means", but even then you don't trust someone who binds a demon prince like that.
It's not a good method of binding demons. I want to make that clear. Wise sorcerers don't do it. Moderately hubristic sorcerers are tempted, but realise that it's too dangerous for their precious skin. It's unsafe, and you're not binding them using the Surrender Oaths. You're trapping them in a mortal vessel and weaving spells around them to compel them. They don't want to do what you tell them too when this spell affects them - they're forced to by Compulsions that they can resist and so you have to keep on shouting orders at them to grind down their will if they try to fight you. It's why it only gets used by three kinds of people; very, very desperate people, foolhardy people, and people who already work for Hell even if they don't realise it yet.
(Infernals are only tempted to use it if they've gone renegade and want to lord it over their former bosses, see "foolhardy people". Loyalist Infernals just call the 3CD as part of a pre-negotiated trade.)
But one of the things about demons in Exalted is there's a reason that all the commonly summoned ones are useful. It's because people don't summon useless demons. There are undoubtedly demon breeds in Malfeas that are, for example, worse than fighting than blood apes but even more aggressive - and hence they're obscure and never used, because no one does that when they can just summon a blood ape.
So to my way of thinking, when you have the very safe, very reliable normal Exalted way of demon summoning - there's certainly room for much less reliable, more dangerous ways of doing it that you might do it you can't do it the safe way. Hell, there's even canonical examples of this - thaumaturgy can summon 1CDs and 2CDs but can't bind them. No Exalt who can cast those spells would ever use the thaumaturgies, but someone who can't use those spells might.
And so there's room in-theme for an unsafe, unreliable way of binding a Second Circle demon in TCS and of getting a Third Circle in CCS. And they're just safe enough that someone desperate who's willing to gamble that if they micromanage a single demon a tier above what they could normally get might risk that spell. A sufficiently desperate Lunar looking for revenge might try to bind Munaxes into a human body to get a demonhost whose maw can devour entire formations, or a Terrestrial exiled by the Realm might turn to it looking to take down Mnemon and her conventionally-bound 2CDs.
(and then multiple sorcerers tried to get Salina executed for Crimes Against Creation when the first case of a Terrestrial learning that spell from the Salinian working was discovered and they realised what "No spells will ever be lost again" meant.)
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Hmm...It's an interesting take ES. I have to agree that it might be a bit setting breaking...but at the same time it opens up some pretty cool stories you could tell. I'm kind of thinking of Eisenhorn here, as you mentioned 40k. However I'm also thinking of WoW. In the latest expansion, you find out that the personal vizier/adviser to the chief of one of the tribes is actually a benevolent black dragon who swore his loyalty to the bloodline in thanks for being saved.
In this case, I'm thinking something like a small out of the way kingdom that has a Jaffa like adviser who knows all kinds of secrets, can stop people assassinating the King...but is secretly plotting for whatever reason for his Third Circle Demon.
I man if you are putting a second circle demon into a human host...do they get some of the demon's immortality transferred to longevity? I'm thinking there are all kinds of people who would sell their souls to Hell for hundreds of years of extra life...and then you could also have the demon bound to human form who has been guiding the city states in the back end of beyond for generations.
In this case, I'm thinking something like a small out of the way kingdom that has a Jaffa like adviser who knows all kinds of secrets, can stop people assassinating the King...but is secretly plotting for whatever reason for his Third Circle Demon.
I man if you are putting a second circle demon into a human host...do they get some of the demon's immortality transferred to longevity? I'm thinking there are all kinds of people who would sell their souls to Hell for hundreds of years of extra life...and then you could also have the demon bound to human form who has been guiding the city states in the back end of beyond for generations.
The stories this is meant for isn't for "there's a free demon here". That can be done with thaumaturgy, remember, if you want to summon a 2CD and not bind it.
This is specifically here so sorcerers can reach for power beyond their grasp, and then juggle with fire - and possibly get away with it. After all, binding a 2CD with Emerald Circle magic means your binding is vulnerable to Emerald Circle Countermagic. It's dangerous.
No. As I see it, there is no human in this option. It's quite distinct from the "making a hybrid from a host and a 1CD", conceptually. You're using a human sacrifice as a way to trap a demon using a lesser level of sorcery.
This thing, for 2CDs and 3CDs, is an old thing sorcerers do. And not very nice sorcerers at that. There's just a bound puppet who's Obviously possessed by a demon and is chaining them. The vessel is being used as a trap for the demonic essence. You just murdered whoever you bound them into, basically.
Bursting Eagerness Soul
Threadwalking Rating Machine
- Location
- Wisconsin
This sounds like a wonderful, terrible, awful idea...
I love it.
Seriously though, I like the idea of being able to risk your life and continued free will in order to maybe gain control over something monumentally more badass than yourself. It opens up some pretty cool storylines, including the previously mentioned Bartimaeus scenario.
I love it.
Seriously though, I like the idea of being able to risk your life and continued free will in order to maybe gain control over something monumentally more badass than yourself. It opens up some pretty cool storylines, including the previously mentioned Bartimaeus scenario.
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frozenchicken
Does not have a custom title.
My first thought on hearing this was 'you could bind an Erymanthoi inside a cat'.
The Sandman
So Zetta Slowpoke
- Location
- Wherever I am, which isn't where I'm not
That seems more likely to end up with the cat in control, the blood ape in your body, and your apprentices suspicious about your frequent purchases of tuna.
- Location
- Pittsburgh, PA
The impression I got from your philosophy was that thaumaturgical summoning of a Second Circle Demon exists in order to have big crazy cults trying to bring forth their dread lord into the lands of Creation, that He may then bring the judgment of its true masters to the unenlightened populace; it's all about days-long ceremonies and piles of bizarre reagents being sacrificed and a legion of chanting worshipers led by bound FCDs, so that the party can then have a big cool scene where they disrupt the ritual and do battle with a shitload of cultists and their Hell-spawned overseers.
If an SCD actually managed to escape Hell without being bound via that method, it would rather rapidly draw the attention of nearby authorities, given that most of them are not exactly going to hide in back alleys and avoid leaving any noticeable mark on their surroundings. They might be Outside Fate, but once the local geomancy starts collapsing and local gods flee into neighboring regions with tales of Malfean horror upon their lips, somebody important will notice.
Now, a version of the Wave-and-Fire Possession Rite for SCDs certainly creates the opportunity for players to get a nasty surprise when the Sorcerer's loutish scarred-up bodyguard suddenly slits his wrists, spews a torrent of brazen knives from the wounds, and ohshit that's LEMKH, run! On the other hand, you could totally tell a tale about some overweening Sorcerer creating such a creature and then losing control of it (or being killed while their daemonhost was elsewhere, etc.), so now you have a partially-nerfed Prince(ss) of Hell loose in Creation doing who the fuck knows what.
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