I dislike it for those reasons, and also - perhaps even more - because it de-emphasises the Third Circles. Who are beings you can engage with, and deal with, trick or fight within an average campaign.

The original design of the Yozi lends itself to treating fighting a Primordial as waging war against a government, or, say, a multinational corporation. You have a CEO, a board of directors and a bunch of lesser directors and other assorted executives below them, all ruling over a swarm of many workers and their middle managers.

In order to combat such a thing, you need to take out the whole executive organisational hierarchy from the ground up. Killing any given executive or even the CEO doesn't kill the company, they just get themselves a new one. The company survives the death of its leaders, even though under new leadership its corporate strategies may change and it may rebrand itself. To kill the company you need to, metaphorically speaking, salt the earth with Ghost-Eating Technique such that the position you just forcibly vacated cannot be simply filled by a new hire. To change it, you need to oust a large portion of its senior executives and hope the replacements have different business plans.

In this analogy, charmset alteration allowing you to alter the entire hostile organisation into something more to your liking would be lame, as you can achieve victory by hiding in a cubicle and writing memos to yourself until Big Bad Resource Extraction Megacorp magically turns into the Big Good Sustainable Recycling Megacorp, requiring no hostile takeover behaviour at all. This is boring, so GMs should dump it.
 
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To change it, you need to oust a large portion of its senior executives and hope the replacements have different business plans.
Or manuvuer pawns in that you have more influence over. An infernal variant of GET that turns the target spirit into an endowment for a mortal or 1st circle demon would be overpowered wouldnt it?
 
Or manuvuer pawns in that you have more influence over. An infernal variant of GET that turns the target spirit into an endowment for a mortal or 1st circle demon would be overpowered wouldnt it?
Such a thing would be more likely to not be a charm, but instead a sorcerous working. A very costly sorcerous working, and not perfectly likely to work the way you want it to work.

It would be easier to use the Homebrew that slipped in the write up of the Harem/Shonen protagonist third circle that was made by Earthscorpion (The Prince of Leeches, third circle of Elloge), in which one of the Waifuish Second circles(Asarin, the fake sun. Warden soul of the Prince of Leeches) was likely to supplant the third circle with the right magical and social input. (Or at least she was likely to become a new third circle. It wasn't really clear.)

You get the most acceptable second circles from every third circle, and then find a way to empower them to supplant their third circle. It will be hard, it will be long, it will be very very costly, it will need to be done subtly, and *insert other things here that will be*. But it will be possibly the easiest of the hard solutions.

Of course, nothing stop you from finding a way to overwrite/supplant a Second circle with a First circle in the same manner, but it is likely to be as costly if not more, and probably will need a lot more first circles to actually make something metaphysically strong enough to have the same link a Second Circle has to a Third circle.
 
More to the point, Charm Therapy relies upon the interpretation of Yozis as literally consisting of the sum of their Charms, and that's both stupid and one of the most noxious 2eisms ever.
 
EarthScorpion Setting Homebrew: The Vakotan Lands
Something more for Taira - another nearby area.




The Vakotan Lands

To the north of Taira lie three hundred miles of dry steppes and desert, rising into the Viin badlands. No one nation rules this place, but the people of this place are the Vakot, who dwell in their wagon-towns and travel where their herds go. The rain in this land has always been irregular, and the only permanent settlements of any size are clustered around the Grey River and its tributaries. The soil is sandy and though tall grasses grow on the steppes, herds must be moved to give the land time to regrow. Patches of desert mark where overgrazing has eroded away the soil.

Long ago this land was fertile and forested, but the skeletal ruins of ancient cities in the deserts and the badlands mark that the climate changed for the worse. It worsens again. For ten years, drought has afflicted the Vakotan lands. The rains do not come, and the grasses that grow are yellow and sparse. Their cattle and horses suffer, and that is something the clans cannot tolerate. They fight over grazing rights, but the Tairan civil war provides another escape valve.

Three hundred years ago, a Vakot warlord unified many clans and swept south, and to this day his bloodline rules Taira - though barely. Again the Vakot head south, but this time entire clans hire themselves out as mercenaries to one side or another in the war. They fight for pay and for grazing rights, though some lords are starting to realise just how much cropland the mounts of these nomads devour. Other lords from cataphract bloodlines welcome their northern kin in and marry their children, knowing that a Vakot clan that calls you brother is a potent ally in the fight for the throne.

Culture & Religion

The Vakot are distant kin to the Makurans to the north, but they lack the love of freedom of their relatives. It is said by some that they were exiled from the Makuran Federation long ago for their attempts to conquer it - and Vakots accept the story willingly, claiming it was only treachery and the intervention of outsiders that prevented their conquest of the lands. Both men and women are expected to be masters of the horse and the shortbow, but the weapon of the true warrior is the lance. When a clan goes to war, most ride light and harass their foes while the bravest clan-members drape themselves and their steeds in chainmail and hit home like a hammer.

Most of the population of these lands is nomadic or semi-nomadic. Even before the current drought, the rains from the north and west were too unpredictable. Settled Vakotan towns and villages are slapdash affairs usually built as extensions to wagon-homes. Vakots seldom see the point in improving their towns when they will simply tear them up and move on in a decade. On the other hand, their wagons are lavished with much more care and attention, and painted in bright colours. When a young couple sets up a new household, their clans work hard to make them a wagon even if the families are enemies.

The same love of bright colours matches in the way they dress. Though while out riding both men and women dress mostly in hardy leather, they wrap gauzy scarfs around their faces to keep out the dust and tie bright cloth to their backs which flaps in the wind as they ride. It is said that this pleases the wind gods. Respectable people cover their heads outside, to avoid offending the sky, and even the youngest children wear their distinctive headscarf and broad-brimmed hat. In their own wagons, they readily shuck their outer leather garments and wear soft woollen clothes, woven in distinct clan patterns.

Most Vakotan clans see no distinction between the role of priest and smith. The rolling temple-wagon doubles as the village forge. Smiths are men and women who know the ways of the spirits and of the horses - after all, one's life may depend on the quality of your steed's horseshoes. Their anvils double as altars and fire plays a major role in most religious rites, with offerings burnt.

Dead bodies are nailed to a cross, arms outspread, and left for the birds in a high place. This allows the soul of the departed to leave the body and become a crow. Crows are wise birds who will help a man if treated well, but bring drought and misfortune if spited. The worst criminals, therefore, are buried in the earth where their soul cannot escape and bring misfortune to the living.

Vakots see the gods everywhere. Everything good that happens to a man occurs because a god smiles on him; every misfortune is an angry god or a malign spirit. To interact with the gods directly, therefore, risks offending them and it is best left to the wise. The best way to communicate with the gods is by offering offal to crows and telling them what you wish the gods to know. Corvids, as the spirits of the deceased, can negotiate with the gods without them taking offence. Otherwise, only smiths should take the peril on themselves and risk a god taking offence by saying the wrong thing. Vakots content themselves with trying to see the will of the gods in the movement of clouds, the stars and in their dreams.

Economy

Most of the nomadic clans herd horses, cows and other livestock, trading those for anything they cannot make themselves. These animals are usually bought by river traders, who ship them out on vast paddle boats. Otherwise, they are sold in markets in the northern reaches of Taira, though with the civil war this has disrupted the trade. The coastal settled areas of the Vakotan grow cotton, flax, wheat and tobacco. All of these are brought in large amounts by the nomadic clans, especially after a long cattle drive. Some clans engage in mining, setting up permanent settlements around seams they find, but such work is for purchased slaves or captured enemies rather than Vakots.

The other major business of the Vakotan nomads is, of course, fighting. They fight each other for grazing rights and to steal cattle, they raid settled areas to carry off everything they can, and they hire themselves off as mercenaries. With the current drought leaving animals to starve and the civil war in Taira disrupting the trading routes, entire Vakotan clans are simply migrating into Taira as armies for-hire, bringing their cattle, sheep and horses with them. They pillage, fight for pay and sell animals with equal willingness.

Dead Cities of the Badlands

In the Viin badlands lie towering, wind-worn statues and skeletal cities of white stone. Dry riverbeds choked with sand are broken up by the remnants of ships. Domes of nigh-unbreakable glass catch the sunlight for a moment when the wind blows dust away from hillsides and reveals what lies underneath.

Once, in the time of the Shogunate, this entire area was a fertile land much like the River Province. But wars and bloodshed and spite broke the old rites that had kept the rains coming, and the land dried up. The cities tried their hardest to divert water from the rivers and keep themselves alive, but the wars of the Shogunate destroyed such fragile efforts, and the cities were no more. They were abandoned even before the Great Contagion, and left to moulder.

Some of the Vakots make a living as scavenger lords, diving into the dust-choked ruins. This is a traditional role for half-bloods - especially ghost-blooded - because all know that the gods watch over those ruins and only those who are very, very lucky will be permitted to survive. There are things living in the ruins; earth dragons that dwell in the tunnels below the city, pale-skinned monsters with black eyes that have jaws that can unhinge and consume a man, and feral packs of men driven mad who wield forbidden weapons of a lost age .
 
Interesting and evocative stuff.

It is also making me crave more and more for something Fallen-Londonesque in Creation, so i might try to trick someone in making it not to write something because i must do something else.
 
i can't write countries but i can make trash :V

Vansh, the Storm-Stripped Riders
Progeny of A Trinity of Tattered Banners
Demon of the First Circle


They were made as a gift. For a quiet, demure woman who caught Kiraaye's eye as he labored beneath the Golden Lords. In the Era of the Deliberative the common lot was much improved; no longer did men and women die of wasting sickness nor did rough, unnatural predators stalk the population. Man grew fat on the grace of the Sun. Cattle kept by sleek-coated wolves, to be grazed and slain as it suited their hungry Golden Lords. The story is not a complicated one: there once was a town more brilliant than Gem to the South, richer than Nexus to the East. A Princess bade it die for its design now displeased her and its population had perhaps grown errant and so, in the course of a single night, the town fathers killed their kin and snuffed out their own lives. Leaving none behind save one. This one was nothing of grandeur or legend: she was a porcelain faced maiden with limbs of living earth and a heart of liquid flame. A form shared by a thousand other maidens. Each made to serve,created to please paying masters. Amused at her arrogance the Princess dispatched a demon lord to break the little doll. To shatter her all to fragments and strew her self across the Direction. The Trinity of Tattered Banners was tasked to see this end.

He found her clutching a fruit knife in a trembling hand. Scarcely had he materialized than she was upon him, clumsily striking. Slashing with a knife barely as long as his finger. Fighting, struggling to the last for her meager, meaningless life. With one hand the Prince lifted her aloft. Curious he asked: why did something as simple and as sweet as she fight so desperately? Fiercely she responded: her life belonged to her, why must she give it away?

She wished to live, was that not enough?

Kiraaye loosed his grip and wove a cloak from his own steaming breath, his own searing blood. Upon her shoulders he placed the fitful, mewling thing and bade her run. Run to the wasteland. Run to the Demon City. Run as fast as she could for he would follow and if he caught her he would dash her to pieces.

This is the tale the Vansh tell of their creation. That it was they who bore her aloft on burning wings and lent speed to her steps. It was they who cared her beyond the reach of their father, to the chaos and clash of Malfeas. Is it true? Who can say. But the vansh that cling to Utprerak's hull in the unnumbered thousands preach it even so. In the secret places of the Unquestionable they build shrines of bone and clay and leave offerings of small, glittering things.

Summoning and Use (Obscurity 2/3): The Storm-Stripped Riders blend the features of birds and reptilian beasts, flayed down to the raw muscle and sinew. A thicket of tendrils coils loosely upon their narrow backs, hidden between their folding, fan-like wings, and hardened vents lace their hindquarters. They are symbiotic in makeup and long for hosts, crafting crude dolls out of clay and muck if they are unable to find a bearer. When worn their emaciated bodies shift. Slender claws clasping their bearer's bodies close as the tendrils burrow into their chest, secreting analgesics to numb any pain. Within the host's body they stimulate adrenaline and refine the reflexes, granting their companion an uncanny, unnatural speed. Their narrow jaws part, spreading a slick resin that hardens into an opaque face-shield. Framed on either side by the vansh's watchful eyes. Their manuevering tails anchored to the wearer's spine.

The Storm-Stripped Riders cannot fly when burdened by a bearer, but they can glide easily and bear their wearer aloft temporarily on their wings or slow their falls. By venting Essence through their calcified "ports" they may propel even an Erymanthoi to acrobatic leaps and bounds.

However sorcerers should be cautious, vansh are desperately needy, anxious, and not particularly bright. Long term use damages the body's ability to rest and recover and scars the organs. Yet a vansh will not willingly relinquish its hold, confident in its ability to sustain the bearer. The key is in soporifics and burning herbs, certain tinctures and narcotics native to Malfeas (most prominently Skysear Ivy) daze the creature and send it to a restful slumber. The Immaculate Order carefully tracks the cultivation of such flora to uncover Yozi cults affiliated with the Antarch Stampede.


Topen, the Scorch Kissed Shepherds
Progeny of Our Mistress of Sparks
Demon of the First Circle


From her fastness form Utprerak rains down a thousand forms of death. Primordial fire and shearing gravitational forces, meteor impacts and raw beams of essence. From beneath her span armies descend, caged in ablative chrysalis, on the backs of demon-beasts, or in the holds of strange, insectile craft. Some, such as the topen, flit to the battlefield on their own wings. Great, gauzy things that churn the air in a blur. Setting their ponderous, chitinous bulk down with deceptive grace. At a stark contrast to the brutality of their bodies.

They appear as monstrous beetle-things, as if a man of giant's size was bent and broken into the form of a verminous insect. Their carapace is segmented and glossy-black and their clustered eyes burn like broken, dying suns. Strips of softness in a chitin-helmed head. On six limbs they crawl, crushing stone underfoot with their strength and bulk. Communicating across the vast expanse of the battlefield with the humming, keening, of their gossamer wings. From hardened cysts on their back are born a multitude of lesser symbiote spawn. Gelatinous grub-things, soft-bellied and luminous orange, their heads crowned in gripping mandibles. With powerful flicks of muscle and sinew they are hurled hundreds of meters. With their viselike maws they clamp onto men, material, fortified walls and critical infrastructure. Holding tightly as arcane reactions in their bellies trigger and they detonate in orbs of infernal fire and greasy smoke.

At heart each topen is a, perhaps unappreciated, artist. In accordance with their mother's design they compete to spread beautiful char across Creation; each one husbanding sparks and scorch as a mortal might a flock of sheep. In the thick of battle they draft beautiful patterns with their bombardment. Etching aesthetic beauty out of the ruins of towns and cities. A fact often lost on those receiving the full brunt of their might.

Summoning and Use (Obscurity 3/4): In Creation they are utilized as living siege engines and artillery trains. Their popularity and spread hobbled by their upkeep (which is prodigious as befitting a beast the size of an adolescent yeddim), their oft indiscriminate fire, and the general blatancy of their being. More humanoid demons may be politely obscured beneath veils and dress, they may be befriended or thought "tamed". More inhuman beasts may be smaller or kept out of sight of the common man. But topen are colossal beasts who exist purely in the service of open conflict and largely lack any other reason to be called to Creation. Thus their use, once endemic in the brutal internecine wars of the Shogunate, has been heavily curtailed by the Immaculate Order and their summoning generally circumscribed. As knowledge of their use passed out of academic memory so too were they supplanted by more manageable strains of demon-kind.

However, recovered writings of Shogunate-era war-sorcerers may yet provide keen insight into the physiology of the Scorch Kissed Spherds. Each topen is hermaphroditic, able to produce offspring lacking any other partner. In the charred, glassy center of their great works they were known to nest. Burrowing beneath the ash and soot to lay a small clutch of young bound within luminous, translucent eggs. These fragile spawn would have many alchemical uses or, at the very least, provide more destroyer beetles.


Vikreta, the Menacing Mustelids
Progeny of the Vizier of Clotted Coin
Demon of the First Circle


The average demon is passionate, unstable, and myopically obsessed to the point of seeming insanity. The average drunken demon is passionate, unstable, myopically obsessed to the point of seeming insanity and foolish enough to act on any, or all, of its undisciplined thoughts and secret yearnings. Much the same could be said of a demon rising from a narcotic haze or in deep at a gamblers table. Vice is endemic in the Demon City, the high walls and silver sands, the lack of hope, the empty future, ensure that serfs and citizens alike seek escape wherever it might be found. Yet the lowered inhibitions and fierce tempers of the inhabitants make for a volatile combination. To be sure beating and ejecting offenders is always an option -and certainly has its place- but such is ultimately a reactive measure and can incite a general melee all on its own. Better to prevent such things from ever happening. Better to ensure that the money flows in and the customers leave largely intact with interruptions between the two as rare as possible.

Such is the reason for the vikreta. Paanee Ka Saamp maintains many dens of iniquity and so, naturally, requires many loyal and trusted lieutenants to oversee such operations. Demons who will disperse product while maintaining order and keeping clean ledgers. Demons who may be relied upon to only be mildly, acceptably, corrupt instead of dangerously parasitic. Thus they were born and thus, over the centuries, they have spread until the Menacing Mustelids appear throughout the shells of Malfeas. Acting as bartenders and pitbosses. Brothel proprietors and narcotic vendors. Their more mundane lusts have been channeled by their creator, articulated into an enduring obsession for success and sale by any means or any measure. The flickering sparks of good fortune and abstract wealth flowing through their body. It is said that one may note the importance of any vikreta by noting their teeth. Lesser creatures who maintain a simple wagon of spices may have a few teeth of copper and flashy, worthless crystal, while those great movers and shakers of infernal sin have fanged maws full of every shade of tainted jade or fired Antarch clay etched with reliefs praising Utprerak herself.

In appearance and disposition they are enormous, serpentine weasels. The accoutrements of their profession clutched tight in several of their eight, pawed hands and their heads crowned in slicked back spikes of chitinous glass. They are vicious, cowardly fighters when pressed but that comes rarely. Most often disputes managed or reduced through a keen ear and a silver tongue, both married to a forceful, demanding personality. Vikreta live in vast clans, networks of dealers and distributors, buyers and clients, with some of the more prominent even staking claims to not-inconsiderable portions of Malfeas's shells. The Princes and Princesses of the Unquestionable view such developments with a wary eye. Better to barter than battle to be sure, yet such displays of force by mere First Circles is unsettling.

Summoning and Use (Obscurity 1/3): Vikreta are well known amongst the sorcerers of Creation and oft employed as accountants or tallymen. Middle managers to steward over a magician's large estate and ride herd upon the other demons in their train. Significantly more reliable than any mortal helper, so the thinking goes, and far more closely bound to their "employers" best interest. Bureaucrats might bristle at the comparison but the Immaculate Order has little interest in prosecuting such summoners. Their resources are finite and while such utilization may be theologically unsound and morally suspect it is far from the most grievous offense a magician may commit.

Those who carefully cultivate a relationship with their demonic servant may, in time, find their due diligence rewarded as the vikreta introduces the sorcerer to ever further contacts within their vast, sprawling family. Opening up heretofore unknown avenues of purchase and sale. Easing the exchange of goods, slaves, and services between Creation and Malfeas.
 
It would be easier to use the Homebrew that slipped in the write up of the Harem/Shonen protagonist third circle that was made by Earthscorpion (The Prince of Leeches, third circle of Elloge), in which one of the Waifuish Second circles(Asarin, the fake sun. Warden soul of the Prince of Leeches) was likely to supplant the third circle with the right magical and social input. (Or at least she was likely to become a new third circle. It wasn't really clear.)

Well, it could be either!

... but either way, do you think adding a tsuntsun sun soul to Elloge will help her? Or will it just give her an edge of more active anger, and even more of a problem with expressing her feelings openly?
 
Well, it could be either!

... but either way, do you think adding a tsuntsun sun soul to Elloge will help her? Or will it just give her an edge of more active anger, and even more of a problem with expressing her feelings openly?
Well, considering that the main charmset used for Elloge has almost no combat charms, adding a rather Valorous soul would change that. So, I'm guessing that in the short term, things will temporarily get worse in Malfeas as Elloge now would be willing to take more risks, but any 'reformers' would have a slightly easier time getting Elloge into a state of minds where she could be allowed into Creation.
 
Well, it could be either!

... but either way, do you think adding a tsuntsun sun soul to Elloge will help her? Or will it just give her an edge of more active anger, and even more of a problem with expressing her feelings openly?
Depends on whether part of Asarin ascending to a 3rd Circle is her becoming willing to admit her feelings, while at the same time choosing to let them go due to Balanodo being a shit.
 
Depends on whether part of Asarin ascending to a 3rd Circle is her becoming willing to admit her feelings, while at the same time choosing to let them go due to Balanodo being a shit.
Depends on how she does it, don't it? If she gets so mad that her anger and spite become Elloge's anger and spite, or if some Infernal innovates a charm tree about her, then aside from the power up she ain't changing much, but Elloge gets quite a bit different. If she changes her nature to fit Elloge better, then Elloge won't change much at all. If there is some in between path, the degree of her influence will change. Pretty sure that the excellency will get another keyword or two or maybe delete the bit about castration, as what Elloge uses Valor for is Inspiration and Asarin is quite Valorous.
 
Depends on whether part of Asarin ascending to a 3rd Circle is her becoming willing to admit her feelings, while at the same time choosing to let them go due to Balanodo being a shit.

Yeah, no.

Look, none of Balanodo's souls are well-balanced human beings. For one, they're demon ladies. And for two, they're anime haremettes. The closest that comes to being able to pass as human is Nexada, and she is literally incapable of breaking her vows. At her core, Asarin is the Warden Soul of a demon prince, a statement on how he protects his core nature through violence against anyone who might make him doubt himself or feel uncomfortable, and she just turns that core nature upon her greater self by eternally seeking to best him - while also loving him because her love makes her feel weak.

Yes, by human standards she's fucked up. She's a demon. And also an anime haremette. That's crazy2​.

If she were to ascend to @Revlid's Elloge's Third Circles, she won't better Elloge notable. In fact, she fits perfectly into the Worst Fanfic Writer theme of his Elloge.

hollow fraud
isolation
emotional drama


Oh, no doubt a Third Circle Asarin would give Elloge all kinds of new tools to drive away people who might realise that's nothing inside her stories, and add on top of that all kinds of fun psychological techniques for breaking other people down, belittling them, and crushing their own dreams to quiet her own insecurities. After all, what's being the Worst Fanfic Writer without online bullying people who favour the wrong ship, or who STEAL YOUR OCs? Or draw a character insufficiently curvy?

A Third Circle isn't a direct translation into the "personality" of the Yozis - but their themes express a tool the Yozi has to deal with the world. And Asarin would provide Elloge the tool of anger and going after people who make you uncomfortable to break them down in order to get them out the way.
 
Why does that have to be the case when Asarin has to break free of the constraints of her nature as a Warden Soul to become the greater entity that is a Third Circle?

Yes, the most likely option is that it makes things worse, because degeneration and failure to improve are baked into the nature of the Yozis themselves. But why is it impossible for the Infernal Exalted to do anything to change that? They can't actually free the Yozis, but it seems like it should be a possible end-goal of theirs to help the assorted Yozis mature, move on, and basically act as therapists to them.
 
So, I wanna try to see if I can't rework the Lintha so that they're more of a Fallen Race than a group of God-Bloods. They seem to fit the basic criteria for it, in my eyes (once grand and powerful with post-human powers and technologies, decline came about due to a combination of external (MF: the Great Geas, DK: the War/Contagion/Crusade, Lintha: getting their shit wrecked) and internal (MF: Artisan squabbling, DK: difficulties with recovering sentience independantly, Lintha: cannibalism, castration, inbreeding and interbreeding) factors, and being abandoned by their singular patron who they still revere), and it would be more interesting to give them their own abilities rather than constantly having to grab stuff from Exalts to act as stand ins.

Given that the society of the Ancient Lintha seemed to have built itself around the Lintha's relationship with their sister-island and Kimbery's souls, I'm thinking their Charm-like powers would have an underlying theme of symbiosis, which has the side benefit of letting me get away with not needing to majorly change the Lintha Family really much at all from canon, since they could just represent the "parasitic" expression of the Lintha's overall symbiosis theme. They'd also have a theme of art and artistry, because Kimbery is an artist, at least in her own eyes, so each cascade(?) would pay homeage in some manner to a different aesthetic virtue, from the honed combat skill of the Sword Brotherhood to magics that would let you change color, whether to be bright and gaudy like a poisonous sea creature, or camouflage oneself like an octopus.

Anyway, this is enough to appease my brain, apparently, so it'll actually let me work on my finals instead of this. Tell me if you think this idea is worth procrastinating over in the future or if I should just smack my brain and tell it to focus on colonial America already.
 
My thought on Asarin's ascension is: What is a sun if not the will and ability to remake the world, made manifest in a physical form?

In Creation we see it it in Sol Invictus rebelling and creating champions to bring about an order to the world never before seen. We see it too in Ligier's participation in the making of Creation and his nature as a craftsman.

In the world we know, we not only see the transmutation of base elements into new forms, but also a bit of character. We see that gold is glorious and lifegiving (not killing worlds by via harsh flares or violently dying before life can really get going), that blue is unbelievably brilliant but wasteful and unenduring, and that brown is insignificant without the true will needed to refine the world's base nature. Red, lastly, is that will burning cold, patient... and utterly inexorable, its convection currents meaning that it never ceases until every scrap of the work is finished and it is truly and completely done.

I haven't fully read Revlid's charmset for Elloge, but just looking at her excellency, the nature of a sun thought laid out in the first paragraph plays into that in a big way: Elloge presently is crippled in that she cannot truly invent, but if the very nature of a sun is a being who creates or an act of creation, then that could well change and Elloge might attain the capacity for real creativity. That's not necessarily healthy but it's a direction in which improvement might be found.

By my own read from the Ink Monkeys bits, part of the way I see Elloge is someone who's detached from the world and disdainful of it --- and possibly outright afflicted with depression --- and in my eyes moving from disdain for the world to actually (slowly, patiently) making something different of it is, in this interpretation as in the last, a direction in which improvement might be found. (Or might not, to invite a pun said by Noh one ever.)

EDIT: Apologies if this is a little incoherent. I've been up just a bit too long.
 
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My thought on Asarin's ascension is: What is a sun if not the will and ability to remake the world, made manifest in a physical form?

In Creation we see it it in Sol Invictus rebelling and creating champions to bring about an order to the world never before seen. We see it too in Ligier's participation in the making of Creation and his nature as a craftsman.

In the world we know, we not only see the transmutation of base elements into new forms, but also a bit of character. We see that gold is glorious and lifegiving (not killing worlds by via harsh flares or violently dying before life can really get going), that blue is unbelievably brilliant but wasteful and unenduring, and that brown is insignificant without the true will needed to refine the world's base nature. Red, lastly, is that will burning cold, patient... and utterly inexorable, its convection currents meaning that it never ceases until every scrap of the work is finished and it is truly and completely done.

I haven't fully read Revlid's charmset for Elloge, but just looking at her excellency, the nature of a sun thought laid out in the first paragraph plays into that in a big way: Elloge presently is crippled in that she cannot truly invent, but if the very nature of a sun is a being who creates or an act of creation, then that could well change and Elloge might attain the capacity for real creativity. That's not necessarily healthy but it's a direction in which improvement might be found.

By my own read from the Ink Monkeys bits, part of the way I see Elloge is someone who's detached from the world and disdainful of it --- and possibly outright afflicted with depression --- and in my eyes moving from disdain for the world to actually (slowly, patiently) making something different of it is, in this interpretation as in the last, a direction in which improvement might be found. (Or might not, to invite a pun said by Noh one ever.)

EDIT: Apologies if this is a little incoherent. I've been up just a bit too long.

The problem here is that Asarin is a false sun - a brown dwarf. That's technically a substellar object, not even a real star! Brown dwarves are characterized by their inability to conduct hydrogen fusion, unable to perform the fundamental creative act. At most, they can turn hydrogen and lithium into helium, but that's extremely limited by the comparative rarity of lithium. And then all they can do is wait, unable to create at all, slowly growing colder... Asarin's stellar thematics, then, already fit perfectly well into Elloge's creative sterility.

Of course, there might be a way to change her thematics. Find some wellspring of Titanic essence, some object of unthinkable spiritual power, and then stick it in. Force unshaped potential into her, beyond her ability to cope, until she is so bloated, so engorged with Essence she begins to collapse under her own spiritual weight. And then watch her ignite, the false star transmuted by power into a red dwarf. Still a vanishing, petty thing beside the glory of Ligier, but a true sun nonetheless.

Is this hubris? Hahaha, oh fuck yeah it is! But you should totes do it, it'd be fuckin sweet. Just don't be anywhere in the same realm of existence when Ligier learns that you created this mockery, this dull imitation of HIS glory. Oh, and also avoid Asarin post-transmutation, since a red star is a Not Good Thing in oWoD thematics, which arguably should apply.

But still man, totes worth it for the looks of Balanado, Elloge, Ligier, Malfeas, and your ST's faces. Totes.
 
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Of course, there might be a way to change her thematics. Find some wellspring of Titanic essence, some object of unthinkable spiritual power, and then stick it in. Force unshaped potential into her, beyond her ability to cope, until she is so bloated, so engorged with Essence she begins to collapse under her own spiritual weight. And then watch her ignite, the false star transmuted by power into a red dwarf. Still a vanishing, petty thing beside the glory of Ligier, but a true sun nonetheless.

And that'd just make her even more tsuntsun.

'Cause, you know. Now she'll be a redhead on top of everything else.
 
And that'd just make her even more tsuntsun.

'Cause, you know. Now she'll be a redhead on top of everything else.
Small...redheaded...

Now just find a prophecy that means she has to marry a farmboy with a magic sword. I'm sure Venus would get right on that...
 
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Small...redheaded...

Now just find a prophecy that means she has to marry a farmboy with a magic sword. I'm sure Venus would get right on that...

You first have to make sure she has forest spirit ancestry.
Then arrange for her to be basically kidnapped by a female sorceress and her disreputable father.
Gotta be sure that the farmboy's starmetal daiklave has an N/A sentient Hearthstone set into the hilt, too.
 
I'm assuming the Solar with the Starmetal Daiklave is a Solar but is that guy he has to fight a 3rd circle or a god?

I'm guessing 3rd Circle demon of The Purpose, because when Torak dies, Errand replaces him. UL is obviously the Fetish Soul.
 
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And that'd just make her even more tsuntsun.

'Cause, you know. Now she'll be a redhead on top of everything else.

Well, it could be either!

... but either way, do you think adding a tsuntsun sun soul to Elloge will help her? Or will it just give her an edge of more active anger, and even more of a problem with expressing her feelings openly?

Are people suggesting to let a tsundere undergo demon apotheosis? Let me remind you the last time that happened, it wasn't fun for anyone involved.
 
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