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General Exalted Thread

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EarthScorpion said:
Exalted decided to make the most powerful features of each splat innate (probably because it was a spin-off of the oWoD, which did the same) despite the long-standing mythological precedent that not only did demigods need their items, but gods needed them too. Hades couldn't pass invisible among men without his helmet of invisibility he obtained from the Cylopes, for example.
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Well, Maui does need the Magical fishhook to transform...
 
horngeek said:
Well, Maui does need the Magical fishhook to transform...
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Yes, but I'm making the point that a lot of Solar-inspiration heroes and gods in mythology were item-dependent, so we can't rule them out just because they need a magic item - because Exalted made the design choice that power lies in the Exaltation and you're special because of that, not because you're a hero who found a magic sword or whatnot.
 
The Laurent said:
Hrm, mostly so, but there is the fact that without his fishhook, he's down a lot of his powers. That part doesn't feel very Solar-y. I mean, it could be part of the list of 'inspirations for Solar characters' and that's fine. Making Maui!like Solars would be fun. He's a cool character.
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EarthScorpion said:
Yes, but I'm making the point that a lot of Solar-inspiration heroes and gods in mythology were item-dependent, so we can't rule them out just because they need a magic item - because Exalted made the design choice that power lies in the Exaltation and you're special because of that, not because you're a hero who found a magic sword or whatnot.
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This is why Ex3 added evocations. Say what you will about the exact implementation, but the idea is that they cover exactly this sort of item-focused power.
 
Aaron Peori said:
Thankfully @EarthScorpion's idea of requiring a suitable Background (including Artifact) to evoke Sorcery does this much, much better.
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Not all magic is sorcery, and not all artifacts are sorcery. Trying to squeeze "a legendary swordsman draws incredibly power out of his bond with a sword made by a legendary smith" into "sorcery" just cheapens both.

And aside from that, "after committing artifact dots you can now cast this appropriate spell" is not clearly better - or even all that different - from "if you have an artifact, you can buy artifact-based charms to use with it".
 
Kuciwalker said:
Not all magic is sorcery, and not all artifacts are sorcery. Trying to squeeze "a legendary swordsman draws incredibly power out of his bond with a sword made by a legendary smith" into "sorcery" just cheapens both.

And aside from that, "after committing artifact dots you can now cast this appropriate spell" is not clearly better - or even all that different - from "if you have an artifact, you can buy artifact-based charms to use with it".
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First off, I never proposed making that the only effect of Artifacts. You can use Backing and Influence and Manse for things other than Sorcery effects and Artifact is no different. You just keep the same artifact powers as now, ie a max of a few passive and active effects scaled by the dots of the artifact.

Second off, the difference is that I can use the Sorcery with any appropriate Artifact, rather than just the one. Maybe I can use my magic fishhook to pull islands from the sea. But I can also use my magic flute to sing them out of the sea, or my magic prayer beads to pray them out or my magic sword to cut them out. I'm not investing XP into an artifact I may decide to trade in later, is the key here.

Further, Sorcery is much easier to balance than an entire Charm tree because its one spell versus anywhere between five and a dozen discrete effects. Plus the fact is that Sorcery is already weaker than Charms, but of broader scope which means its perfect for one off effects that give a character unique flavor without stepping entirely out of the themes of the Exalt type.

So I could create, say, a Solar Circle spell that allows me to take a variety of animal forms for its duration but the cost and investment makes me strictly worse at it than Lunars and Lunars have all sorts of effects that boost or enhance this effect while a Solar can't really develop Charms that key off 'being a wolf' or 'being a fish' the way the Lunar can.
 
Aaron Peori said:
Second off, the difference is that I can use the Sorcery with any appropriate Artifact, rather than just the one. Maybe I can use my magic fishhook to pull islands from the sea. But I can also use my magic flute to sing them out of the sea, or my magic prayer beads to pray them out or my magic sword to cut them out. I'm not investing XP into an artifact I may decide to trade in later, is the key here.
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I'd call Evocations not doing this a feature, not a bug.
 
Aaron Peori said:
First off, I never proposed making that the only effect of Artifacts. You can use Backing and Influence and Manse for things other than Sorcery effects and Artifact is no different. You just keep the same artifact powers as now, ie a max of a few passive and active effects scaled by the dots of the artifact.

Second off, the difference is that I can use the Sorcery with any appropriate Artifact, rather than just the one. Maybe I can use my magic fishhook to pull islands from the sea. But I can also use my magic flute to sing them out of the sea, or my magic prayer beads to pray them out or my magic sword to cut them out. I'm not investing XP into an artifact I may decide to trade in later, is the key here.
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As @horngeek says, feature not bug. The whole point is to represent the legend of your hero and this particular sword, not your hero's legendary sword-wielding prowess that he was able to use with lots of different swords. The latter is just a melee charm.

("But then if you lose your artifact you lose the XP investment" yes, which is why your ST shouldn't take away your character-concept-central item unless that's desirable for the story, and/or he should refund XP for that sort of thing.)

Further, Sorcery is much easier to balance than an entire Charm tree because its one spell versus anywhere between five and a dozen discrete effects.
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There's nothing stopping you from statting up an artifact with just one or two evocations. (And in the final book artifacts max out at 5-6, not a dozen.) Or from only taking one or two evocations from an existing artifact.

Plus the fact is that Sorcery is already weaker than Charms, but of broader scope which means its perfect for one off effects that give a character unique flavor without stepping entirely out of the themes of the Exalt type.

So I could create, say, a Solar Circle spell that allows me to take a variety of animal forms for its duration but the cost and investment makes me strictly worse at it than Lunars and Lunars have all sorts of effects that boost or enhance this effect while a Solar can't really develop Charms that key off 'being a wolf' or 'being a fish' the way the Lunar can.
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That's great, but nothing about this obligates us to use spells exclusively to represent the powers an Exalt draws out of a daiklave. Meanwhile, doing so is an incredibly harmful thematic statement that leads to everything being sorcery and sorcery being bland.
 
For those who don't know why PPE needs to die in a fire- all the problems of Eclipse Charmshare but worse, because now every Solar has the potential to get Yozi Charms.
 
I'm restarting work on Gloriously Incandescent, my Exalted/Worm Cross. We're just starting chargen, so come on over if you want to help. I also added a disclaimer on how you can avoid dying, so it doesn't end like my last quest.

I'm using a lot of hacks, including derivatives of Earthscorpion's Abilities, Atributes, and Styles, as well as my own personal hacks to make certain Abilities. *cough*War*cough*Craft*Cough* I'll more fully realize them if and when the players decide to engage with those systems though.
 
notanautomaton said:
I'm restarting work on Gloriously Incandescent, my Exalted/Worm Cross. We're just starting chargen, so come on over if you want to help. I also added a disclaimer on how you can avoid dying, so it doesn't end like my last quest.

I'm using a lot of hacks, including derivatives of Earthscorpion's Abilities, Atributes, and Styles, as well as my own personal hacks to make certain Abilities. *cough*War*cough*Craft*Cough* I'll more fully realize them if and when the players decide to engage with those systems though.
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What is that craft hack?

Is it merging all craft categories into 1?
 
ManusDomine said:
Specifically; it's the signature Charm for Dragon-Blooded that allow the Scarlet Empress and the General Staff of Lookshy to look each other in the eyes and say "for the good of Creation" and then like each other like brothers and sisters until it's duration runs out.

It's one of my favorite Charms in the entire game.
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Meh. Best is threshing floor technique.

Nothing emphasises the cooperative theme of dragonblooded than the power to strike all at once even when physically impossible

But anyway, any wiki recs?
 
Accelerator said:
Meh. Best is threshing floor technique.

Nothing emphasises the cooperative theme of dragonblooded than the power to strike all at once even when physically impossible
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Nah; Threshing Floor doesn't have any setting implications, it just makes Dragon-Blooded able to hit people with more sledgehammers.

Ten Thousand Dragons Fight As One means that every single Dragon-Blood that lives or has ever lived could shake hands and truly fight side by side like brother and sister at any moment.

I think that speaks volumes about the Dragon-Blooded Host than the ability to hit a person with more sledgehammers.
 
ManusDomine said:
Nah; Threshing Floor doesn't have any setting implications, it just makes Dragon-Blooded able to hit people with more sledgehammers.

Ten Thousand Dragons Fight As One means that every single Dragon-Blood that lives or has ever lived could shake hands and truly fight side by side like brother and sister at any moment.

I think that speaks volumes about the Dragon-Blooded Host than the ability to hit a person with more sledgehammers.
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To each his own then.

I got 2 wikis exalted.xi.co. and whitewolf wikia. Which do you use?
 
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