But isn't the firat edition, like, the first tike it came out?

So 2nd and 3rd edition were all confusing?
More that different writers, often fans promoted to the position, began to add elements to Exalted that they thought were cool and interesting, without often considering how those elements would fit into the wider structure of Exalted and its themes.

For example, the Daystar write-up added elements to the Unconquered Sun that turned him from the Aztec-Dinosaur-Lucifer 1E deception into Sun-Jesus.
 
But isn't the firat edition, like, the first tike it came out?

Yes, exactly.

First Edition had a coherent design vision and an idea of what it actually wanted to do, while Second Edition was mostly mindless repetition and pointless, trite detail.

So 2nd and 3rd edition were all confusing?

Large parts of the Sufficient Velocity Exalted community don't like Third (me included), though some think it's great (most notably @Omicron, who has done all the awesome 3e homebrew and who can tell you all sorts of things).
 
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You mean like when they changed Lunars from an antagonist-only splat of mad fae-kings to a playable splat in the last second and had to scramble to give them something relevant they did since the Usurpation? Yes, very coherent.
Oh, wow, you've realized that 1st edition wasn't perfect. What a profound discovery.
 
You mean like when they changed Lunars from an antagonist-only splat of mad fae-kings to a playable splat in the last second and had to scramble to give them something relevant they did since the Usurpation? Yes, very coherent.

Congratulations, you have discovered that Lunars have never been coherent.

Meanwhile, the rest of the setting is plenty coherent without Lunars and Dragon-Blooded don't have Charms that literally describe them as "mere" Terrestrials.
 
It sounds like the place where they had the most conceptual difficulty in 1e was in the Wyld, because it seems like this was an issue both for Lunars and for the first Fair Folk book, which actually is kind of interesting.

I haven't bought Bastions of the North yet, but I've heard it's frequently maligned, and the weird thought that pops into my mind is that I'm wondering if the conceptual issues of the Wyld adversely affected other books in 1e?
 
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Congratulations, you have discovered that Lunars have never been coherent.

Meanwhile, the rest of the setting is plenty coherent without Lunars and Dragon-Blooded don't have Charms that literally describe them as "mere" Terrestrials.
I'm not sure I entirely agree with that. "Sidereals as presented in their book" was fairly different from "Sidereals as presented in every previous book"; there's a fair amount of shift in Abyssals, as well, and now we're up to three of the five playable splats where the core was pretty misrepresentative. This is before we come to things like "the Malfeans" (who are not the guys who live in Malfeas), the widely varying power/genre expectations in a number of early books (Hi there, Invisible Fortress, and how are the half-dozen Solars trapped by a demon-blooded army doing?), the bizarre hiding-of-statblocks (Naturally, we would expect the most complete Deathlord writeup to appear in Alchemicals), etc.

I'm not saying First Ed was bad, or even worse than Second, but I think Second has a lot to recommend it for being packaged in a way that makes conceptual sense, with all the pieces in some kind of sane order, and some idea of what the various splats are out of the corebook. Mechanics aside, if I wanted to recommend a source to understand the setting, I'd suggest Second Core, probably followed by Third, followed by First.
 
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I'm not sure I entirely agree with that. "Sidereals as presented in their book" was fairly different from "Sidereals as presented in every previous book";
This was halfway necessary given how conceptually weird the Sidereals are, it would be impossible to get them right without the entire Sidereals book.

Besides, the Core and Storyteller's Guide very much agree with the Sidereals book.

there's a fair amount of shift in Abyssals, as well
Dragon-Blooded as well actually. Dragon-Blooded were supposed to have hundreds of pacts with elemental courts and be expert diplomats when it comes to spirits, according to their introductory section in 1e.

and now we're up to three of the five playable splats where the core was pretty misrepresentative.

Incorrect, we're up to one of the five playable splats.

Abyssals, Sidereals and Dragon-Blooded all stayed the same with only skin-deep changes while Lunars had a complete conceptual change due to them not being meant for players in the beginning.

And honestly, if we look at the Lunar NPC section in the core, it's not that big of a conceptual change.


This is before we come to things like "the Malfeans" (who are not the guys who live in Malfeas)
A stupid name does not make it less coherent, it's just a stupid name. Furthermore, Exalted was originally designed to be a precursor to the cWoD, in which they are called Malfeans, and thus First Edition has plenty of a design vision.

It just happens that this design vision is "everything goes to shit because it's too late to save Creation".

(Admittedly, the Storyteller's Handbook backtracks on this a bit, and states that it was the original intention, but that they have separated enough that it is up to you to decide.)

the widely varying power/genre expectations in a number of early books (Hi there, Invisible Fortress, and how are the half-dozen Solars trapped by a demon-blooded army doing?), the bizarre hiding-of-statblocks

Eleven non-combat wombat Solars against 5000 demons and demon-blooded led by a Second Circle.

To be honest I am entirely okay with the fact that a bunch of Solars who are not perfectly rational actors (I mean, if they were perfectly rational actors, they wouldn't go into combat either, because the battle would never end :V) being trapped by a force almost fifty times as numerical as them.

(Naturally, we would expect the most complete Deathlord writeup to appear in Alchemicals), etc.

Yes, naturally we would expect that a Deathlord be in the adventure that he is relevant for. :V

(Admittedly, it was a pretty shitty one.)

I'm not saying First Ed was bad, or even worse than Second, but I think Second has a lot to recommend it for being packaged in a way that makes conceptual sense, with all the pieces in some kind of sane order, and some idea of what the various splats are out of the corebook. Mechanics aside, if I wanted to recommend a source to understand the setting, I'd suggest Second Core, probably followed by Third, followed by First.

I disagree completely.

The 1e chapter fictions were masterful, and especially the introductory story of Aesha in Chiaroscuro captures the setting perfectly. The setting chapter is wonderful and explains what you can use different organizations and characters for, as well as have excellent introductions to the various fiefdoms and empires throughout Creation, such as the Realm or the Scavenger Lands.

But then, I had my introduction to Exalted in First Edition, so it may look different to me.

However, if you say anything bad about Scavenger Sons or Games of Divinity (especially Games of Divinity), I will strangle you. :V

Eh. Honestly, 3e it's pretty coherent setting-wise. It just have gone full Tales of the Flat Earth/Pulp and reduced the influences of the other base sources.

Totally.

I just don't like it and therefore I naturally won't recommend it. :V
 
However, if you say anything bad about Scavenger Sons or Games of Divinity (especially Games of Divinity), I will strangle you. :V
The gods/elementals parts of GoD were merely average.

The origin story of Elementals wasn't terrible or anything, but I won't miss its departure in Ex3, and I prefer its take on Elementals.
 
The gods/elementals parts of GoD were merely average.

The origin story of Elementals wasn't terrible or anything, but I won't miss its departure in Ex3, and I prefer its take on Elementals.

wait are u telling me that there is more to games of divinity than the malfeas chapter

m8 this is news to me :V

(Look, I'm still salty at 3e for keeping the boring Greenmaws but throwing the Cloud People out.)
 
wait are u telling me that there is more to games of divinity than the malfeas chapter

m8 this is news to me :V

(Look, I'm still salty at 3e for keeping the boring Greenmaws but throwing the Cloud People out.)
To be fair, the cloud people and other such Civilised elementals don't work as well in a system where summon elemental is basically 'create pokemon'
 
They dropped the QC from the core, it's not as if Cloud People don't exist.

In fact, they're even discussed in the setting section, one of their cloud cities trades with Palanquin.
 
Honestly, the primary reason for delving into the 1e fluff is the also the one which sounds the most like total bullshit, namely that you can feel the enthusiasm behind the text, that they were trying out something inventive and transgressive-for-the-time and trying to assemble this outlandish and wild setting which even the writers themselves had no absolutes in mind for even as they were in the process of writing it. They were making something, and considered it such a huge, all-encompassing project that even the standout line artists like Melissa Uran and Sophie Campbell made really obvious marks on it, despite having no direct influence, simply because those writing the books saw their works and said "that's fucking cool, what's the story behind that" and ran with it.

The writing is undoubtedly flawed in a lot of ways old WW books tend to be, from the subtlety yet wildly varying scope and scale of the powers at work with no mind to the mechanics, often simply relying on "whatever sounds Mythic enough," to the cringingly overt desire to include minorities and moral/social issues without Understanding them, so in the attempt to "be fuckin' real, man" often casually tossed in the kind of slurs, oppression and subtext most of those people playing would be trying to escape from in the first place, like Iron Siaka's debut as an asskicking swashbuckler with a girl on her arm being prefaced with dwelling strangely on how her "mannish looks made her unlovable by any man" or somesuch which... would be written with a more sensitive eye towards who is meant to identify with her, these days.

It carries a whole lot of contradictions, inconsistencies and weird, sometimes outright offensive bullshit, but the fact it IS such an ungodly mess is what makes it so approachable and engaging for its lack of strict codification behind its workings. One book saying one thing, another book saying another only roughly similar thing made the incongruity between into a source of Plot and Potential rather than consternation, and reading the text like tea-leaves to try and uncover how all the pieces fit together, if they could, and the interpretations underlying those things, on top of how to adapt the existing pieces into its own and other source material ("what would X be in Exalted" being less codified than what we see anymore) was what caused the initial fandom to grow to begin with.

The fact it was all so There and so Weird made dropping pieces, exchanging them from other games or changing them to suit its own audience is what made it shine, despite its lackluster mechanics and frequently WW-ish hangups about whether the Storyteller is there to enable the players to do cool shit, or whether it was on the players to array their characters to make cool shit happen Despite what the Storyteller was doing. In a lot of ways, the huge melting pot of ideas it introduced was its primary strength, but also its biggest risk because it was the novelty of those things keeping it afloat. As more games and media in general have started adopting some of its then-weirdness into themselves, Exalted has lost a lot of ground now that things like "Hell is a weird and alien world, not fire and brimstone punishing sinners" are no longer quite as evocative as they used to be.

In a lot of ways, the Exalted that a lot of people here would be most interested in and sold-on, in terms of "what is the rough-cut premise, wild and tangential storytelling options available to me by using these places and concepts," is the original 1e drafts. Because even if they lack the more finely-grained internal analysis of the later books attempting to wedge and revise it all into a singular canon, those ideas are presented entirely to inspire rather than explain, without the burden of precedence that further books have imposed on the material. What made it so easy to off-the-cuff freeball games in Creation back then is exactly what makes it so easy to tell stories with now, especially when you are cutting it free from the albatross of mechanics slung around its neck.
 
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Where did 1e discuss the Unconquered Sun in any detail? I've seen him described that way a number of times, but it doesn't really seem to match what I've read of 1e.
Probably something about the Dragon Kings.

Inasmuch as he was their patron god, they had massive tournament-cum-sacrificial ripped heart festivals in his honor, and their significant Aztec trappings.

The Lucifer bit writes itself.
 
Lucifer failed. That's, like, the defining feature that sets him apart from the traditional usurpation narrative of polytheistic myths.

The Unconquered Sun is closer to Zeus or any of the many gods that usurped pre-gods in a lot of mythologies. Especially in that he was the leader of a pantheon that cast down another pantheon, as opposed to a member of a category of beings who tore themselves in a civil war over whether to follow a singular god, and failed.

I realize there's an appeal to "Aztec Lucifer" because it's edgy as shit and lets us feel like Exalted is more incisive and topical than it is but it's just not really a great comparison.
 
Lucifer failed. That's, like, the defining feature that sets him apart from the traditional usurpation narrative of polytheistic myths.

The Unconquered Sun is closer to Zeus or any of the many gods that usurped pre-gods in a lot of mythologies. Especially in that he was the leader of a pantheon that cast down another pantheon, as opposed to a member of a category of beings who tore themselves in a civil war over whether to follow a singular god, and failed.

I realize there's an appeal to "Aztec Lucifer" because it's edgy as shit and lets us feel like Exalted is more incisive and topical than it is but it's just not really a great comparison.
..... actually, though, he didn't beat the primordials by himself. he just empowered the exalted to do so.
 
I realize there's an appeal to "Aztec Lucifer" because it's edgy as shit and lets us feel like Exalted is more incisive and topical than it is but it's just not really a great comparison.
Is 'Aztec Lucifer' really edgy? There doesn't really seem to be anything offensive about it...
 
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