- Location
- Denmark
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sigh
General Exalted Thread
I don't really see any problems, though I'd leave it open for something else to stabilize the land as opposed to always being temporary. And 10 motes is pretty expensive for a committed cost.
Also, there's a weird conflict in the description: it says that it lasts essence/2 seasons before it disappears, but the duration is Essence.
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- Location
- Ottawa
And you want to be here instead.
I am impressed and slightly horrified.
But seriously though, I love the stuff you've done for Third Edition, I showed my friends the Craft system and the most intelligent response I got after one had managed to wrap his head around it was "what even".
Then I showed them yours and they thought it was awesome.
Heh.
God knows this place isn't perfect, but I actually do like it better. Moderation's good even when it goes against me, and even the people I disagree with usually have actual opinions.
Plus, one thread is less of a time-suck than a whole forum.
Anyway, I'm glad you (and your group) liked the Craft rewrite. Of all my Exalted homebrew, it's the bit I like best.
Given what a hassle this is to use, I think a longer duration might be in order. Is it really worth killing a waypoint-owner for land that only lasts nine months?
Maybe the Charm could last as long as there are Terrestrials living on and defending the land, becoming permanent after a decade or three.
Cap seems a bit harsh too. Kill an E7 Raksha and you can't even use all the successes you get.
Can't say I like this in Awareness, but eh. DB Abilities are weird.
That's actually their balancing factor. If they don't annoy and impede their friends enough, they get Limit, and when they hit 10 Limit all their allies lose xp.
Here, let me present a third opinion:
3e is mostly good, GKS is garbage in a dozen different ways. It's a story-in-a-Charm, like Taboo-Inflicting Diatribe was, and to make matters worse it's a bad story.
If it was homebrew nobody would defend it. If 3e was less controversial it'd probably be changed. But it's become a flashpoint in the 3e-vs-anti-3e battle and now it's very important to keep it terrible because changing it would be losing.
Ironically, criticizing it probably just entrenches it further.
A hallmark of thoughtful game design.
Whispered the greatest in reasoned discourse.
I'm still okay with GKS, but it probably should've been sorcery or something rather than a Lore charm that can be rushed when you're taking supernal Lore. I don't think that it's bad, though, if only because the precise nature and impact of a disaster is left in the GM's hands and therefore won't be campaign destroying unless the GM is okay with turning the board upside down completely.
If I were GM-ing, I'd make the fallout from casually wiping out an entire city so huge
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Legacy code. Will change.
Yeah, SV has amazing moderation and it certainly is a place of... let's say strong opinions.
But yeah, your Craft rewrite just makes so much more sense.
Gah, the canon Craft system hurts.
This incentivizes asshole colonialism.
Thus I will add it it.
The cap is there to prevent the absolute ridiculous things that Wyld-Shaping tends to result in, but I'll add another option to throw successes at, which should fix the issue.
I built it off the logic that DB Awareness is all about being Aware of Creation's Essence, so therefore a Charm that allows you to go "NO FUCK YOU FAIRIES THIS IS CREATION NOW" felt appropriate in Awareness.
(Besides, it helps me in telling people that Dragon-Blooded aren't just "Weak Elemental Solars", which is always nice.)
Here, let me present a third opinion:
I think I agree.
3e is at the mechanical zenith of Exalted, with the exception of homebrew and hacks, it has learnt from the mistakes of previous Exalted editions and is ready to do it's own thing now.
But as with all things, it has also made mistakes, and is marked by the fact that one developer couldn't write a Charm to save himself and the other is acid cleverly pretending to be human.
lol holden as a third circle of kimbery
lol i'll go write something
kek
- Location
- Denmark
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Second draft:
Ten-Thousand Dragons Shape Creation
Cost: 5m, 1wp; Mins: Awareness 5, Essence 5; Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Cooperative, Martyr, Obvious
Duration: Special
Prerequisites: Essence Disruption Attack
The Ten-Thousand Terrestrial Heroes are the Chosen of Creation, and carry the torch of Shape with them no matter where they go. When the Dragon-Blooded kills a Raksha that is affected by Essence Disruption Attack and that has Ownership of a Waypoint, she may reflexively use this Charm to crystallize the Waypoint into Creation, as if she had scored (the Raksha's Essence rating) successes on Wyld-Shaping Technique, which she may only spend on Land, People and Demesne, she may spend no more than (Awareness/2) successes on either, and Demesnes created like so will always be her Aspect, likewise will people possess (her permanent Essence) points of Mutations appropriate to her Aspect. Anything created by this Charm lasts for (the Dragon-Blood's Essence rating/2) seasons before it disappears into the Wyld, unless at least a Sworn Brotherhood of Dragon-Blooded live there, in which case it lasts as long as they live there, after three generations, it becomes permanently part of Creation. Multiple Dragon-Bloods who know this Charm can combine their powers to raise the cap on successes she may spend by one for every Dragon-Blood that helps. With the Martyr keyword, this Charm also affects any adjacent Waypoints.
Oh right, and I think I'll make a bunch of essays like @Shyft's but for (1e, 2e can go die in a fire) Dragon-Blooded. That might help with getting people to understand them better.
Ten-Thousand Dragons Shape Creation
Cost: 5m, 1wp; Mins: Awareness 5, Essence 5; Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Cooperative, Martyr, Obvious
Duration: Special
Prerequisites: Essence Disruption Attack
The Ten-Thousand Terrestrial Heroes are the Chosen of Creation, and carry the torch of Shape with them no matter where they go. When the Dragon-Blooded kills a Raksha that is affected by Essence Disruption Attack and that has Ownership of a Waypoint, she may reflexively use this Charm to crystallize the Waypoint into Creation, as if she had scored (the Raksha's Essence rating) successes on Wyld-Shaping Technique, which she may only spend on Land, People and Demesne, she may spend no more than (Awareness/2) successes on either, and Demesnes created like so will always be her Aspect, likewise will people possess (her permanent Essence) points of Mutations appropriate to her Aspect. Anything created by this Charm lasts for (the Dragon-Blood's Essence rating/2) seasons before it disappears into the Wyld, unless at least a Sworn Brotherhood of Dragon-Blooded live there, in which case it lasts as long as they live there, after three generations, it becomes permanently part of Creation. Multiple Dragon-Bloods who know this Charm can combine their powers to raise the cap on successes she may spend by one for every Dragon-Blood that helps. With the Martyr keyword, this Charm also affects any adjacent Waypoints.
Oh right, and I think I'll make a bunch of essays like @Shyft's but for (1e, 2e can go die in a fire) Dragon-Blooded. That might help with getting people to understand them better.
All of the charms in Miracles of the Solar Exalted were by Morke, and they turned out good :0
I like that it encourages Dragonblooded colonialism! Encouraging people to be asshole imperialists is an important part of charm tech which should never be ignored.
azoicennead
Overly-Affectionate Zombie Squad
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The core, problematic effect was unchanged.
They just made it more expensive, which is kind of a non-issue when you can invoke it without leaving whatever defenses you have (and a week is a pretty trivial time investment).
It also runs on 100% handwavium, which was my actual fucking point. Regardless of any mechanical changes, they left it as "you prophesize a disaster and it happens because you said so".
If I had another point, I wouldn't have quoted just the part of your post where you said "[we'll] never see handwavery on the level of Taboo-Inflicting Diatribe" and pointed at a charm that exceeds it.
mothematics
How wide is the concept of "you"?
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- the bottom of a coffee cup
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I will give you all the Meows for these essays.
Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
It... Totally was discussed, though? Here's EarthScorpion attacking it back in January as part of a larger argument around then, which was well after the backer version was available. Here's me using it as part of a larger argument back in April. When I said it was totally unchanged, I said it was totally unchanged from the backer version, which is what has been discussed ever since the backer version was available. I haven't argued about the leak much, because I never read it. Indeed, the only time I can find people arguing about the version from the leak is like, February of last year.
No method to do so exists within the Charm. The Solar does not have to pronounce doom in any fashion that her target need be aware of. No signs and portents are stated to occur in the week following her pronouncement. It is an entirely valid read to say that a week after activating the Charm, the requisite disaster simply appears out of nowhere. That it is wildly open for abuse in this manner is a great part of my problem with it, an issue exacerbated by 3e's lack of Storytelling advice, in contrast to, say, Wild Talents, which took the time to acknowledge the potential for player access to WMD's and give advice on handling it.
Not necessarily, but given that the two to four successes level is explicitly described as causing events such as "a volcano detonates and wipes a city entirely off the map," and that a great number of nations (interesting, potent nations like Paragon and Nexus, not small fry) in Creation are city-states, then it is extremely likely to be a nation-killer.
To be clear, I don't care about arguing the relative merits or lack thereof of God-King's Shrike. As both I and others have pointed out, we've been over this repeatedly. It's a dead horse. But when you make statements and judgements about the history of the argument, and accuse me of shifting the goalposts, then I do care about setting the record straight.
- Location
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No. They did not.
Looks good to me.
There are actual limits imposed on GSK over TID now though, even if it is by frequency.
TID in 2E was a charm limited only by mote costs, and was comparably much more devastating. The idea that it exceeds it is laughable.
- Location
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Are we really going to argue about which overpowered terrible canned-story-handwave-Charm is more overpowered/handwavey/terrible?
azoicennead
Overly-Affectionate Zombie Squad
- Pronouns
- He/They
Apparently you didn't quite understand my point, so let me clarify it:
TID boosts you using totally mundane methods to accomplish the same goal.
... I question your idea of "handwavey".
Super nitpicky, but to me the phrasing on the first sentence should be changed up to read something like: "The Ten-Thousand Terrestrial Dragons/Exalted (or just simply Terrestrials) are the Heroes of Creation, and...". This is almost entirely because wherever else in the gameline that you see 'Chosen of [THING]' it's in the context of stuff like 'Chosen of Serenity', 'Chosen of Battles', 'Chosen of the Sun', and so on.
They certainly didn't all turn out good. I'm one of the bigger proponents of Ex3 in this thread and Arc-Shedding Rain Technique is so niche I'm a little confused what it's even for. It explicitly only hits trivial opponents, and costs 3m per pop (if Trivial opponents are costing you 3m, they've done their job). Now, since this is a trivial opponent the biggest problem he's likely causing you is Onslaught penalty (and if he's actually threatening, he's not trivial almost by definition), and this charm does nothing to keep him from attacking you, other than wasting half the word count of the damn charm by reminding you that other charms you bought totally work when they should work.
I see what they were going for with God-Heeling Gesture but several of the example effects make me jumpy. I think it'd be better if it was explicitly limited to countering actual spirit influence. Like, the well example, if some god is being a jackass and dries up the town well, then by all means go Solar on that shit, but if it's just a well that dried up 'naturally' (insofar as that even applies to Creation) then starting it up again seems like it's a better fit for Survival.
There's also the fact that it throws around 'minor' and 'major' classifications for spirit charms with precious little in explaining what the hell that's supposed to entail.
And this is to say nothing of the stupid banked-successes stealth errata.
- Location
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This already exists.
It's called "Summon 2CD".
(Alternatively, if you have access to the overkill circle, you can try to summon a 3CD).
Was going to say, yeah, that is a subject on which opinions differ. There's a lot of stuff there that looks unobjectionable until you actually try to figure out what it does, even setting aside the "I open with a thirty-success Join Battle/enter stealth combo" errata.
TID, as written, basically lets you outlaw slavery in a city by talking to a drunken hobo for an hour or two in the back alleys and making a dice roll.
I have no idea how we get to that point and universal suffrage, but that's 100% legal for as long as the hobo counts as a member of that city state.
Shit, why doesn't the hobo-whisperer just talk to a random Dynast and instantly outlaw the Immaculate Order.
TID was everything wrong about 2E, and a thousand times more bullshit than GSK because at least the latter arbitrarily puts into motion a plausible series of events rather than forcing us to speculate how Hobo Spartacus was able to do whatever the fuck he did
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I am sorry, I thought we were still debating on God King's Shrike from the leak vs. the final product as opposed to the backer copy vs. the final product.
Aaron Peori
Rest in Peace
No, what Taboo Inflicting Diatribe lets you do is make a social unit spend 1 Loyalty per week to ignore it, remembering that Loyalty regenerates at a rate of 1 per scene. It's ability to actually brainwash entire societies is extremely overstated by people who never understood the social unit combat rules.
How many scenes happen in a week, precisely?
Because if they're never interacting with the player characters, they are never in a scene!
Further, it is still a charm that lets you inflict massive social upheaval through a few hours of conversation with a single group member.
I'm actually willing to lay that equally at the feet of the old social rules if I'm honest...
As many as is dramatically appropriate. Also it does social taboos of a group not laws or the opinions of specific powerful people. You couldn't make the Immaculates illegal but you could make being too faithful rude. The charm is supposed to be for wide scale social manipulation over time so the proper use is to target organizations with things they won't bother spending loyalty on to gradually shift the culture over multiple uses.How many scenes happen in a week, precisely?
Because if they're never interacting with the player characters, they are never in a scene!
Further, it is still a charm that lets you inflict massive social upheaval through a few hours of conversation with a single group member.