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General Exalted Thread

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Kinunatzs said:
Hi guys i'm back and sorry for being a d*ck a while back and I have an another question

I remember in the previous replies for me that Charms emulated something so my question is what do they emulate? or am I wrong in the emulate part?
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You might be referring to my answer, here?
Imrix said:
...

The thing is, Charms in Exalted are not superpowers. The fundamental conceit of Charms is that they are magic in the sense of manifestations of talent, practice and experience sufficient to perform superhuman feats; they aren't Superman being bulletproof as a simple fact of who he is, they're Batman being able to dodge bullets thanks to intense training.

Because of this, you can't be bulletproof, but you can know how to block bullets, and by necessity, that requires a measure of effort both to learn how to do that, and to actually put your training into practice.

There's a reason that words like 'technique', 'meditation' and 'kata' are common threads among the names of Charms; with a very few exceptions, Charms, and magic in general in Exalted, is a thing you do, not simply an innate quality of who you are.

So, an Exalt can learn how to parry any blow, or harden her body at the moment of impact sufficient to withstand any event... But these are, necessarily, strenuous techniques that tire out the magical muscle of their Essence reserves. Making these things costless and always-on is fundamentally counter to how magic in Exalted works - and would shatter any semblance of game balance, besides.
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Charms aren't really things (Well Solar charms aren't at least). Its skill taken to inhuman extremes. The Solar Swordsman is so damn good with his blade that he can cut you even if he doesn't have a sword in his hand(Glorious Solar Saber). The Solar general is so damn charismatic that his enemies desert other armies to follow him.
 
Revlid said:
Hell, they'd even be more interesting as an umbrella term (like behemoth) for pseudo-Exalted, attempts by non-Incarnae to approximate their own Chosen by various manifold means, rather than an actual distinct category of real Exalted with... basically no uniting features.
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I'll admit this sounds rad as fuck.
 
Dif said:
The problem with Exigents is that, for all that people have made extremely eloquent points on the subject, all the same points could have easily just been applied to increasing the power threshold of Godblooded as a concept. There is nothing so inherent to the goals intended to be solved by the introduction of Exigents that the "Exalted" qualifier is required at all, save that you get to write "Exalted" on the character sheet. "
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Alternately, it was a conscious design decision to define the Exalted as 'those chosen and empowered by a deity or other power' and the Godblooded as 'those related to a deity or other power'.

You can disagree with that decision, but it is a decision, not a loose grab-bag that diminishes the significance of the word 'Exalted' in any real sense.
 
Maugan Ra said:
Alternately, it was a conscious design decision to define the Exalted as 'those chosen and empowered by a deity or other power' and the Godblooded as 'those related to a deity or other power'.
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That's not an alternative, just a motive.

Maugan Ra said:
You can disagree with that decision, but it is a decision, not a loose grab-bag that diminishes the significance of the word 'Exalted' in any real sense.
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Again, it can be both.

Also, it's kind of tricky to argue that the purpose of Exigents was to broaden the definition of Exalted while simultaneously arguing that they didn't dilute the definition of the term.
 
Maugan Ra said:
Alternately, it was a conscious design decision to define the Exalted as 'those chosen and empowered by a deity or other power' and the Godblooded as 'those related to a deity or other power'.
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Except this rules out Alchemicals as a class from being considered Exalted, and instead as Godblooded, because the mortals of Autochthonia are his Chosen People in the Biblical sense, and are Championed by their Exalts, who the Great Maker does not choose or empower directly except as embodying the means of fueling their creation.

"Exalt/Exaltation" is a Label, and it is a label which only suffers by becoming more conceptually diluted to cover more bases than it needs too.
 
Carrnage said:
*snip*
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Well, there's Soulsteel, yes, but that is usually* attuned to Death. The stuff this pseudo Alchemical would be made of would have literally no affinity. It would, essentially, just be Material that is Magic, like how Yellow Jade has no apparent affinity**. The result of this would be something that is close enough to an Alchemical to use the same basic rules, but would not be compatible with actual Alchemical Charms due to using a vastly different creation procedure***. As such, they get stuck with whatever they can rig up, which wouldn't be up to snuff with Alchemical stuff, but would have the advantage of being able to just be taken off and handed to anyone to use, depending on the effect****. Oh, and Mote commitment would be everywhere, because it's just slightly optimized Artifacts rather than actual precise equipment.

*In my opinion, Soulsteel can be attuned to anything, but it requires that batch to be made of souls attuned to that specific thing. Potentially, a brand of Soulsteel that is attuned to DB Elemental stuff could be made... By melting down some DB or Elementals of the correct element.

**Yellow Jade might be raw Essence made manifest, or it might be attuned to Autochthon. It's hard to tell what it actually is, for all we know it might be attuned to the Raksha.

***They made themself into a pseudo Alchemical. What the hell do you think would happen? Upside, no Gremlin Syndrome by proximity, because they aren't using the same hardware style. Or the same OS.

****Stuff like 'Shield that takes X amount of damage,' 'blast that deals X amount of damage' and other things that don't need to be wired into the body to work correctly. Disallowed would be Ox Body alikes, passive boosts to anything and generally stuff that can't be described as an armor attachment.
 
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Conjured Blade said:
In the context of Infernal Exalted, charms emulate the Yozis.
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Imrix said:
You might be referring to my answer, here?
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Yes, I see and sorry if this is insane but can a Exalted learn/create a charm that allows passive perfect defense with the said charm only activates if the said Exalted couldn't react to the attack like sneak attack or surrounded and many more, it's more in lines of a reactive armor rather than explode it reduced dmg/attack to zero only if the Exalted is going to receive a fatal attack/dmg that she/he couldn't react to, of course it consumes motes for the charm to activates
 
Kinunatzs said:
Yes, I see and sorry if this is insane but can a Exalted learn/create a charm that allows passive perfect defense with the said charm only activates if the said Exalted couldn't react to the attack like sneak attack or surrounded and many more, it's more in lines of a reactive armor rather than explode it reduced dmg/attack to zero only if the Exalted is going to receive a fatal attack/dmg that she/he couldn't react to, of course it consumes motes for the charm to activates
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There is a Solar Charm that allows you to not be surprised at an attack, which you can combine with a Perfect Defense to effectively achieve the effect you're seeking here.
 
Kinunatzs said:
Yes, I see and sorry if this is insane but can a Exalted learn/create a charm that allows passive perfect defense with the said charm only activates if the said Exalted couldn't react to the attack like sneak attack or surrounded and many more, it's more in lines of a reactive armor rather than explode it reduced dmg/attack to zero only if the Exalted is going to receive a fatal attack/dmg that she/he couldn't react to, of course it consumes motes for the charm to activates
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Dude, just stop posting in this thread. I am at least mostly willing to stop bashing my head against the wall when told that an idea doesn't work.
 
Kinunatzs said:
Yes, I see and sorry if this is insane but can a Exalted learn/create a charm that allows passive perfect defense with the said charm only activates if the said Exalted couldn't react to the attack like sneak attack or surrounded and many more, it's more in lines of a reactive armor rather than explode it reduced dmg/attack to zero only if the Exalted is going to receive a fatal attack/dmg that she/he couldn't react to, of course it consumes motes for the charm to activates
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Well, there's a couple of answers here. The simplest is that a "passive perfect defense" is not a thing that can or should exist, in any circumstances.

However, the Exalted can activate Charms unconsciously; the system term is 'reflexively'. For example, Reflex Sidestep Technique is a Dodge Charm that you-the-player can activate when you-the-character are subjected to a surprise attack, automatically negating the surprise and allowing other defenses, including perfect defenses, to be applied. Reflex Sidestep Technique is an activated ability, but it's consciously activated by the player to represent a reflexive, unconscious action by the character.
 
Kinunatzs said:
Is it passive or not?
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Well, it's Reflexive, meaning that you can activate it in response to an attack, but no it is not exactly passive.

It has a cost of 1m, meaning that activating it in combination with Adamant Skin Technique, will result in you spending 5m, which is a minimal cost to pay for "lol i take no damage fuck you".

EDIT: Alternatively, it can be used with Iron Skin Concentration which is a bit more risky but has a total cost of 3m instead of 5.
 
Morphic Tide said:
I'd go with an 8. Mostly propaganda, but they are a civilization of people who can use Solar Charms.

The claim that the weakest of the Bloodline outclasses the strongest DB is utter bullshit, but the original, undiluted Lintha were likely up there. An interesting question I have is whether or not Lintha can Exalt. They can get Solar Charms, but is it in a way that is canceled out by getting a Solar Exaltation? Can they learn Celestial Martial Arts?


Eh, they can get Solar Charms up to Essence 2, so their bottom line is quite a bit higher than the DBs. Granted, there's a bundle of restrictions that basically say 'None of the iconic Solar stuff,' and they don't really have much above Essence 2, but the average Lintha blooded is a decent match for newly Exalted DB.
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The Lintha probably have charms similar to the Solars, because Autocthon dissected lintha for study to make exaltations.
 
ManusDomine said:
Fixed that fot you.

White Jade is Earth.

EDIT: Also, anyone can attune to anything, it's just harder for them to do. I'd recommend you to actually read an Exalted book some time.
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Fixed the post, and I know that anyone can attune to any Artifact, that's why I used affinity for the hypothetical material and attuned for Soulsteel, as the bit about my opinion of Soulsteel shows.
 
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Imrix said:
Well, there's a couple of answers here. The simplest is that a "passive perfect defense" is not a thing that can or should exist, in any circumstances.

However, the Exalted can activate Charms unconsciously; the system term is 'reflexively'. For example, Reflex Sidestep Technique is a Dodge Charm that you-the-player can activate when you-the-character are subjected to a surprise attack, automatically negating the surprise and allowing other defenses, including perfect defenses, to be applied. Reflex Sidestep Technique is an activated ability, but it's consciously activated by the player to represent a reflexive, unconscious action by the character.
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ManusDomine said:
Well, it's Reflexive, meaning that you can activate it in response to an attack, but no it is not exactly passive.

It has a cost of 1m, meaning that activating it in combination with Adamant Skin Technique, will result in you spending 5m, which is a minimal cost to pay for "lol i take no damage fuck you".

EDIT: Alternatively, it can be used with Iron Skin Concentration which is a bit more risky but has a total cost of 3m instead of 5.
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Morphic Tide said:
To paraphrase what the more knowledgeable posters: Basically, there is no true passive way to do it, but rather active Charms that represent unconscious reflexes of the character.
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Shame that's theirs no true passive, and this Reflexive thing is a Auto-Cast like right? like this charm Reflex Sidestep Technique would activate if the said Exalted cannot react or have no time to use charms to evade the attack/dmg, allowing the said Exalted to survive right?
 
Remember this is a GAME. So to signify that Invincible Sword Princess the Exalt can reflexively dodge an attack, I the Player can go "I activate Reflexive Sidestep Technique by paying one mote".
 
Kinunatzs said:
Shame that's theirs no true passive, and this Reflexive thing is a Auto-Cast like right? like this charm Reflex Sidestep Technique would activate if the said Exalted cannot react or have no time to use charms to evade the attack/dmg, allowing the said Exalted to survive right?
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There are some passives, but they are generally minor things, like having your own theme music whenever you use a Performance Excellency or similar Charms. But yes, if Exalted were a video game, Reflexive would be autocast.
 
Though you don't have to cast reflexive charms for you know, dramatic setup. But who would actually go through such a thing?
 
Revlid said:
Again, it can be both.

Also, it's kind of tricky to argue that the purpose of Exigents was to broaden the definition of Exalted while simultaneously arguing that they didn't dilute the definition of the term.
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I wouldn't say 'purpose' so much as 'consequence'.

The Exalted are the Chosen of the Gods. The most famous and iconic of their number, and the ones which consequentially feature in the core rulebook, are the Solar Exalted, who were Chosen by the King of the Gods. Similarly you have the Lunars and the Sidereals, chosen by Luna and the Five Maidens respectively. As the Chosen of the Incarnae, those three types of Exalted share certain similarities with one another, such as their limited numbers and the way in which they reincarnate rather than reproducing.

This is, in essence, the 'basic template' - it's what people mean when they refer to the 'autonomous titan-killing super weapons' and other terms of that nature.

But the Incarnae are not the only powerful beings who choose Exalted. They never have been.

The Terrestrial Exalted are the Chosen of Gaia, one step removed through her own children, the Five Elemental Dragons. They differ from that basic template by being able to multiply, passing their own power down through the blood.

The Infernal Exalted are the Chosen of the Yozis, and differ from the basic template by being corrupted versions of other powerful agents rather than created from scratch. The term was always applied to the Akuma as well as the more iconic Green Sun Princes, after all, and their themes overlap with but are distinct from the more traditional 'Exalted' template.

The Alchemical Exalted are the Chosen of Autocthon, and differ from the basic template by being made by the humans he educated, rather than being chosen as individuals. They differ the most from the basic template, which is somewhat ironic considering the role that Autocthon is generally held to have played in the creation of the Exalted in the first place, but they are still deserving of the term.

I could go on, but hopefully you get the point.

What, then, do we call individuals who are chosen by gods but not by the Incarnae? Certainly they exist, as a relatively minor but still well established part of the setting for several editions. Do we stick with God-Blooded, even when they don't actually have any direct blood relation to their patron in the same way that the Dragon-Blooded do, and keep using that same term for individuals who are directly descended from a deity?

The answer that the designers chose was 'no'. They chose to call them 'Exigents'.

Because for all we might talk about how this new addition dilutes the significance of the name or diminishes the narrative significance of the non-Exalted players of Creation, in the end? This approach is more consistent, more unified than what came before, not less.

Dif said:
Except this rules out Alchemicals as a class from being considered Exalted, and instead as Godblooded, because the mortals of Autochthonia are his Chosen People in the Biblical sense, and are Championed by their Exalts, who the Great Maker does not choose or empower directly except as embodying the means of fueling their creation.
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Well, yes. By what right do the Alchemicals get to call themselves 'Exalted'?

They aren't born or chosen, they are made. Their charms aren't techniques or expressions of great skill, but individual tools built into their body and capable of being swapped around. They aren't individuals who caught the eye of a higher power, but a collected mass of heroic souls fused together into a singular whole as part of their construction. They did not participate in the Primordial War or cast down the enemies of the gods. They don't even rely on the direct intervention of a powerful spirit to create, since the whole thing is done by well educated mortals.

And yet, they are Exalted. They are the Chosen of Autocthon, who reflect his themes and his ideals and serve to represent his interests in the world.

If the Alchemicals qualify as Exalted, then the Exigents most certainly do as well.
 
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