Revlid
blob of bugs
- Location
- England
I'd be interested to read it, at least. Exigents have never really clicked for me, on a number of levels, so I'd be interested to hear what you like about them.
General Exalted Thread
Verbatim quote:
"...but Kimbery's surrender had the side effect of imploding every level of the Lintha technological infastructure, which had relied on reformating their mother's component souls."
Moreover, why do they need to be able to go past DB's? The only reason you can give is that the war against them was supposed to be a long grinding affair, but I've addressed that multiple times. So, why must this be beyond your own desires?
Why is any of this true? Remember, Lintha have a home base that can't be located and a reasonable amount of support from Demons and other magical beings(including at least on elder terrestrial). Not to mention a decent number have enlightened essence themselves. So why would mortals necessarily be able to kill them off?
UrsaTempest
Don't Panic!
I like Exigence. I mean, I remember scratching my head how to plug one of my player's Devil-Tiger concept in the game. I can plop it down as it is, maybe handwaving how additional Yozis doesn't make much effect on the world, but that feels like cop-out, you know? Or I can move the timeline forward a couple centuries, but good god the rippling changes would be worse.
In the end, we passed that and just use canon Infernal. Less hassle, all around.
So Exigent? Exigent allow me to do the above. I can just plop it down, and not worried about setting change. Oh, I still have to worry about balance and stuff of course, but that's to be expected.
In the end, we passed that and just use canon Infernal. Less hassle, all around.
So Exigent? Exigent allow me to do the above. I can just plop it down, and not worried about setting change. Oh, I still have to worry about balance and stuff of course, but that's to be expected.
Walker of the Yellow Path
Ho There!
- Location
- The Land of Memes
Personally, I like the idea of Exigents.
What annoys me is every other new Exalt type. Like, Exigents work because they're supposed to be "play these if you have an idea that doesn't fit in the other Exalt Types." (Plus it's an excuse to have a homebrew book, and I wanna see what the 3e devs will do with that)
However, the fact that Liminials and Geti-whateverians and the other hinted new Exalts are going to exist, acting as Underworld Exalt (with themes I'd have loved to see in Abyssals), and Nega Sidereals (which Infernals pretty much were in the end). The fact that those Exalts exist makes me feel like theyre cluttering the setting with too many Exalts.
What annoys me is every other new Exalt type. Like, Exigents work because they're supposed to be "play these if you have an idea that doesn't fit in the other Exalt Types." (Plus it's an excuse to have a homebrew book, and I wanna see what the 3e devs will do with that)
However, the fact that Liminials and Geti-whateverians and the other hinted new Exalts are going to exist, acting as Underworld Exalt (with themes I'd have loved to see in Abyssals), and Nega Sidereals (which Infernals pretty much were in the end). The fact that those Exalts exist makes me feel like theyre cluttering the setting with too many Exalts.
Morphic Tide
Crazy Brainstormer, Munchkin and Wannabe Min-Maxer
- Location
- MI, USA
1. Thematically, yes, they are the only ones to make sense. But there are several other cases where the mystic nature of the parent affects the offspring, and the metaphysics involved means that it makes sense to have half castes be a thing for all the Exalt types.
2. In this idea, they'd be a prelude to the power of Exalting. It's the sign that they can Exalt, not that they will Exalt.
3. They'd get low-end DB Charms and an easier time learning TMA than mortals, with something to make it clear that they will get stomped by actual DB, basically no matter how you build them. Although something to have Breeding tie in to the strength would be nice to see...
That description is exactly what I was thinking. They are weaker than Terrestrials, have the same type of power and are the sign that the person is able to go Terrestrial.
#has never played the game or read any of the rule books
As above, but if that's the case, why havn't they extended that breeding project for getting back the original Lintha to get some high Breeding Terrestrials to help?
Eh, Abyssals are the anti-Solar. It's their thing, it's been their thing, it came from the way they were made a thing. Liminals are a niche that would require an overhaul of what Abyssals even are to let Abyssals have it, and the Abyssal Charmset is crowded enough with those mandatory Vampire and Emo-Solar charms that come from the basic fact of the Abyssal's backstory. Sure, you can make Abyssals into the horror monster Exalt, but then you've separated them from the key fact that they are, as a basic core, twisted Solars. Sure, you can play up the twisting, but past a certain point, there's no reason to call them Twisted Solars.
As for the Pattern-Spiders-in-the-spine people, those just spit in so many faces. They aren't even Exalts, they just have a mini-Loom in them! This fact means that, if anything, they fit better as one of those Voidtech Charms you stick in fleshy people. There better be a damn good explanation about why they can't be plugged into Terrestrials.
- Location
- New York City
Exigents seem like they make the concept of "Exalted" as a category of things make sense for people to understand, because they make for a type of Exalted which can be personal and weird but still be understood as Exalted, and because the Anathema take up a lot of conceptual space and seem in-setting to be a thing people think of as separate from the kind of being that the Princes of the Earth are. That's coming from my limited perspective, admittedly.
I'm ambivalent on the other kinds of Exalted but willing to see where they take them, but Exigents are the kind of thing I was surprised wasn't in there from the get-go.
I'm ambivalent on the other kinds of Exalted but willing to see where they take them, but Exigents are the kind of thing I was surprised wasn't in there from the get-go.
Because the Lintha suck. Like, that's their purpose in the game. They're a bunch of delusional, self-aggrandising pirates who are the terror of the South West, but are just the dying embers of a once great power. Their sister-island is dying and nearly dead, they've lost all their art and craft and now only steal and make war and sail, and they're self-destructively obsessed with blood-purity. They're so obsessed that they castrate or spay any member of the family who leaves their dying island-base and family members are expected to castrate themselves once they've had two children.
Kimbery hates them and wants them to suffer, and so sends them self-destructive visions and her akuma high priest is leading them to their destruction. They're more demon-blooded and elemental-blooded than Lintha; most "Lintha" have just slightly greenish skin and pale hair and a hint of red to their eyes.
Once they were a great empire? Yes, but that's long in the past. Now? Now they're castration-obsessed cannibalistic demon-worshipping pirates.
(and in Keris game, @Aleph has decided that the Lintha can go fuck themselves and wants to a) steal some of their children so she can raise them away from their culture, and b) replace their role as pirates with her own chosen faction of Tengese outcastes. The Lintha are amusingly so unlikeable that their last hope, that Infernals might help them out, is rather hurt by the fact that they're a bunch of douchebags liable to annoy Infernals so much that they decide to take over or wipe them out)
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Isn't it explicitly noted that the modern Lintha would see actually pure-blooded Lintha as impure?
Isn't it explicitly noted that the modern Lintha would see actually pure-blooded Lintha as impure?
NonSequtur
a body
Is she still going ahead with the melt the ones she doesn't like to raise the breeding of the ones she does?
- Location
- The sixth circle of Hell (second on weekends)
- Pronouns
- She/Her
She is probably going to go ahead with that, yes.
FaeGlade Plural
Semper Legens
- Location
- Land of Bureaucracy
- Pronouns
- Plural/They
Well, imagine this:
When the gods sought to overthrow the Primordials, they used the mightiest tool of all times - one that allowed them to channel their very being into mortals, the only way they had to bypass the geas laid upon them. This tool was the Exigence, and after the war it remained in the custody of the Unconquered Sun.
You can have the Exigence as the greatest creation of Autochthon. It's easily the perfect tool because it's capable of shaping essence like nothing else, it can instill creativity and life and all those other things. It's even a perfect contrast to his sickness and fits very well with his theme of surpassing his limitations.
Or you can leave that out, the origin doesn't matter as much after all. Maybe Ignis Divine created it on his own, maybe the other Incarnae helped, maybe it was even a collaborative effort by all the gods or came from somewhere else entirely.
Then this mightiest of gods actually allowed lesser gods to wield this power. This actually fits really well with the role of the Unconquered Sun as some good, virtuous person.
And it puts a wedge into "Solars are perfect for everything". Yes, even if Solars are better than Exigents this holds true because even then, UCS recognized the need for more.
Plus, you can put all sort of power politics into it if you want to be more nefarious. From "leave me alone to my games, here's a tool for that" over "I did it to undermine the other Incarnae" and a whole bunch of other things, all that fits with Ignis Divine granting other gods access to the Exigence.
So what do we actually get out of Exigents? Both for the setting and individual stories.
As just mentioned, they're simultaneously tied to Solars and sidestep them. They are also a type of hero that's new to the Age of Sorrows, so it's a counter to "everything revolves around Solars" and "Solars are the only heroes that can save us".
It's already been hinted at that getting an Exigence can be as much a matter of celestial politics as anything else. Getting celestial politics more involved in creations story is a good thing in my book, as long as it's not overdone and turns celestial politics into all that matters. Well, the Exigents actually accomplish that.
It's a challenge to players independent from Dragonbloods - which are too tied to their faction - Lunars (same in some ways) and Sidereals (which don't rule territory in Creation). At the same time, they're more human than gods are and can tell different stories.
It actually allows small gods to have an impact on the setting beyond just getting curbed by every major thread. The story of Janest is a great example of that.
And generally, we just get an entire new set of supernatural actors to play with.
As for actually playing them:
I imagine they'd be great for lower-scape stories than Solars or Lunars.
You can't really play a Solar as "personally empowered by a god". As in, the character probably didn't know the Unconquered Sun on a personal level, Ignis Divine is obviously not a local god, Solars don't really get sent on personal missions like that. Neither do Lunars. Sidereals are fated to exalt and mostly tied to Yu-Shan, while Dragonbloods are too tied to their lineage, even if you play an outcaste.
Again, look at the story of Janest. Sure, you can also tell a story about a farm maiden who one day exalted as a Solar to defend her valley against the Raksha, and who then did that. But it'd lack the personal touch we see in the story, and with Solars you'd break that scope quickly due to various reasons. Your power would exceed that relatively small ambition quickly - and you have that giant wyld hunt target painted on you.
So with Exigents, you can tell different types of stories.
An Exigent can be the chosen companion of a local god, who the people there mostly know as that young man who lives secluded in the woods, is wiser than any village elder, and who often comes into the village to aid them while defending them from attacks. Sure, you can kinda-sorta do that with a god as well, but a god would be less tied to their affairs and the issue of worship would come up. And you'd not have a "chosen mortal".
And this would also work less well with a god-blood, since you'd automatically have parent/child relationship there.
An Exigent can also rebel against their god in a much more direct fashion. You can't tell the story of a starting Solar who actively fought against the very god who chose them. You can do that with an Exigent because that god might be much less powerful. Since it's still an Exaltation and not actually dependent on the continued gods existence, this works very well if you want it to. Sure, a Solar or Lunar can overthrow gods as well, but that's much less personal and wouldn't have the sweet result of "overthrow the one who made you what you are".
Again, you could kinda-sorta do this with god-bloods, but since being a god-blood isn't really a matter of being chosen (you're born that way), it's not the same.
And an Exigent could potentially have directly earned their Exaltation through trickery, or in a contest, or by some other personal means.
You could have a person who managed to out-play a god with the specific price of Exaltation in mind. That doesn't really work for Celestial Exaltations since you can't challenge the Incarnae, and while you could get a Solar Exaltation for managing to best a god, that's not the same since it's then still granted to you by someone else.
There's lots of interesting options for play - both for PCs and NPCs and I think Exigence also does some interesting things to the setting.
Oh and thanks to @Fenrir555 for the encouragement to actually write this post.
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If you have no idea regarding their place and their means, why is your argument all about their place and their means?
As for the latter sentence, well, it helps to actually know what you're talking about: Terrestrial blood is actually an impurity regarding original Lintha, so that help is counterproductive. Not to mention that high breeding terrestrials don't like the lintha, as the former are basically all in the Realm, and the Lintha can't really make high breeding terrestrials because their own blood thins the terrestrial blood. So that doesn't work. Plus all the stuff EarthScorpion mentions.
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- Location
- New York City
One of the cool things about them is this seems to be an option, but that they can both be powerful and weaker, and allow a lot of customization to make them very personal.
My big worry at this point is that given some of the developer comments as well as the mechanical realities of 3ed I'm really not sure how great this will end up in practice.
notthepenguins
Neither Spherical Nor Frictionless
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
I don't think this is actually true, but rather that the frequency has increased as the world devolves into chaos.
Seems like that was a good decision. Wasn't one of the major intended modes of Terrestrial play and sources of drama dealing with the whole 'I could have exalted, but I never did and now I feel like a failure' issue? Having half-castes manifesting any kinds of signs early on seem like they'd kind of undermine that whole drama bomb.
Pretty much. If I was using Terrestrial half-castes, they'd only show in their late-teens to twenties, as a "logical progression" of the weakening of Terrestrial blood. A Dragonblood so weak that they're second-class citizens, replacing quite a bit of the existing Patrician class (and pushing existing Patricians down a social step, because they're now even more failures than the ones who can't even manifest an anima banner).
Hmm. Heh, actually, that'd work. Terrestrial half-castes are seen in;
a) cases of super-low Breeding, instead of Exalting.
b) cases of super-high Breeding, as a "you're almost certainly going to Exalt" thing prior to Exaltation. So V'neef, for example, was already showing Terrestrial Charms in childhood and running around as a five year old healing her pet kitten with Dragonblooded Medicine. It also makes high Breeding Dynastic children even more terrible spoilt brats if they show this.
Naturally, as a sign of the weakness of the modern Terrestrial host, b) is a Dragon-sent miracle when it's seen these days, while a) is far, far too common.
...so back in the height of the High First Age 'b' would be the expected norm but the blood thinned and nowadays the Dragonblooded are obsessed with keeping their blood strong enough that they don't end up as 'A'.
Hmm...wouldn't that mean apart from the Lost Eggs running around there would be a fair few people throughout creation that are really good but not Exalts themselves I could see it, yeah.
Hmm...wouldn't that mean apart from the Lost Eggs running around there would be a fair few people throughout creation that are really good but not Exalts themselves I could see it, yeah.
- Location
- London, England
Yeah, I have to say that I quite like the idea of Exigents. They... well, they fit.
In the 3e view of things, which I quite like in its own right, the Exalted are the Chosen of the Gods. They are imbued with great power by their patron deities and, originally, were called upon to defeat the enemies of the gods and otherwise further their goals. Much of their power reflects the themes and ideals of the deity who empowered them, and while that does not guarantee obedience, it does provide a kind of common ground that helps tie the setting together.
In that context, the Exigence makes perfect sense. It allows other gods to empower their own servants who draw from similar themes and serve to represent their interests in the world, and while that's a change from earlier editions it still retains internal coherency. So while I might be somewhat concerned with how they can be implemented, broadly speaking I'm in favour of their inclusion in the setting.
The real question is going to be Liminals. Perhaps Geitimians (or however you spell it), but I'm focused on Liminals because we actually know something about them. There's hints that they serve a 'Dark Mother' of some kind, who might have simply sidestepped the 'empower a mortal' issue and proceeded straight into 'empower something that used to be a mortal' instead, but so far there's just not enough to easily judge.
It's possible that Rakhan Thulio has similarly decided to promote himself beyond 'Agent of a powerful patron' and into the position of 'patron of many powerful agents', in which case the Geitimians might have some claim to the title 'Exalted', but again there's just not enough information to easily tell.
In the 3e view of things, which I quite like in its own right, the Exalted are the Chosen of the Gods. They are imbued with great power by their patron deities and, originally, were called upon to defeat the enemies of the gods and otherwise further their goals. Much of their power reflects the themes and ideals of the deity who empowered them, and while that does not guarantee obedience, it does provide a kind of common ground that helps tie the setting together.
In that context, the Exigence makes perfect sense. It allows other gods to empower their own servants who draw from similar themes and serve to represent their interests in the world, and while that's a change from earlier editions it still retains internal coherency. So while I might be somewhat concerned with how they can be implemented, broadly speaking I'm in favour of their inclusion in the setting.
The real question is going to be Liminals. Perhaps Geitimians (or however you spell it), but I'm focused on Liminals because we actually know something about them. There's hints that they serve a 'Dark Mother' of some kind, who might have simply sidestepped the 'empower a mortal' issue and proceeded straight into 'empower something that used to be a mortal' instead, but so far there's just not enough to easily judge.
It's possible that Rakhan Thulio has similarly decided to promote himself beyond 'Agent of a powerful patron' and into the position of 'patron of many powerful agents', in which case the Geitimians might have some claim to the title 'Exalted', but again there's just not enough information to easily tell.
I generally agree with the above, although with the caveat that the UCS... hrm. Calling him a 'good, virtuous person' should be a statement with a lot of qualifiers attached.
- Location
- New York City
Yeah. I think it was mentioned that Exigents will be full of essays to explain Charm design, but being totally real, I have no idea if that will actually work out to make it easy to homebrew. Homebrew is just really hard in general, and being mechanically creative and still being kosher in terms of design space has felt like a constant difficulty, whether homebrewing charms for a powerful God-Blooded, doing Evocations for my players or just trying to fill in some blank spaces for Charms for other Exalt types.
Hakazin
Serpent Admirer
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I am almost certainly constructing something from nothing here, given that I know next to nothing about what the devs have said in regards to the new Exalts, but, since reading Sidereals:WFHL and its' take on the Getimians, some ideas have been brewing in the back of my head. So here it goes.
The Getimian Exalted should not be. They come to be when the Loom of Fate goes horribly awry, missing whole sections of Creation, tangling what was with what shall be, the Pattern Spiders unknowingly weaving around some individual, editing him out of Fate, or strands that come loose are stitched back in without thought as to where they go. They live their lives, unknowing of the damage they cause by existing, until one day, the notice something. Maybe it's a memory that they could not have possibly lived. Perhaps a sudden sense of Deja Vu, or their actions eliciting an effect they should not. Sometimes, they merely blink, and the world around them seems to change in an instant, friends becoming strangers, and strangers enemies. Or, perhaps, they merely notice the mysterious men and women wandering the world. Men and women others seem to simply... forget.
Regardless, the next events are generally the same, or at least similar. Fate breaks around them, with the newly formed Getimian Exaltation tearing free of the constrictions of the loom, dealing horrible damage. The new Getimian almost invariably flees the damage wrought, often chased by mortals who suddenly realize the wrongness of the individual. This is often fortuitous in the long run, for the damage is often quickly noticed by the Sidereals, who will most invariably send someone to fix the damage, and to hunt down the cause. From there, three results generally ensue. Either the Getimian damages Fate so badly in their experimentation and attempts at control of their new powers that the backlash kills them, they are hunted down and invariably killed by the Sidereals, or they are found by the brothers and sisters of Rakan Thulio's Loyal Opposition.
If they are found before an untimely death, the new Getimian are taken to Thulio himself, who tells them of the forces arrayed against them. Of the Golden Host of Heaven, corrupt and rotten to the core. Of the Maidens of Fate, inscrutable and uncaring. And of their zealous enforcers, the Sidereals. He tells them of a thousand deaths of heroes. A thousand brutal wars sparked. A thousand secrets kept that have slain in their keeping. A thousand disasters, leaving a thousand peoples to wander, landless and dispossessed. A thousand assemblies of men, left to prosper on the blood on the sedated and fooled.
All these things he tells them, and more, each atrocity building the new Getimian's rage and resentment against Fate. And when they have had enough, when the Getimian swears his loyalty to Thulio's cause, to tear down Yu-Shan and smash the rubble into fragments, he takes them to Ananke, The River and Source. Ananke takes the Getimian into her coils, and crushes them to take their measure. Those who withstand, who live by seizing their power over Fate and making their own, are reborn through the ordeal, though all but their hearts are but dust. Ananke then takes the heart into a new body, one which can withstand the rigors of weaving a new Fate unto the world. Afterwards, a period of recovery occurs, for even the most stalwart of souls would be shaken by such an ordeal, and then the reborn Getimian is set loose upon Creation, to make it as they will it to be.
EDIT: Dear fucking god that's long.
I do like the Exigents for low level games that aren't DB based. That and they let you explore a lot more character archetypes. For my game they're not going to be from power that Sol was holding onto though, but rather a representation of the cycle of revolution that runs through Exalted. The Primordials had the Incarna servants, who made Exalted to overthrow them. Now the lesser gods make Exigents, to overthrow the Incarna. It might not start like that, but I think this is something that should have come out of the Great Curse, giving the gods the power to do this, instead of something passed on by Sol.
grommile
nasty-minded old cynic
- Location
- NERV-Mercia
- Pronouns
- Traditional/Animate
The UCS is extremely Virtuous
As some clarification here: The developers have said that Rakan Thulio discovered, but did not create, the Getimians. He's not like, the one dude who managed to pull it off.