What really sold me on Exigents is the example character in the Antagonists section: "Revana Quin, Architect of Wu-Jian". She is roughly an Exalted Of Cities which... actually seems to work pretty well for Charm themes, and has tons of potential both for PCs and NPCs.
 
What really sold me on Exigents is the example character in the Antagonists section: "Revana Quin, Architect of Wu-Jian". She is roughly an Exalted Of Cities which... actually seems to work pretty well for Charm themes, and has tons of potential both for PCs and NPCs.

A thing that's extra cool is also that she's specifically Exalted of Wu-Jian, and an Exigent that got their Exaltation from another City Parent from a city with a different character could have a very different take on similar themes.
 
Incidentally, i may nearly not working on Discordians (I should work on the Fluff, but i want to work on a unworkable crunch.... or maybe i should fix them to fit Earthscorpion's system? Mmhhh, not a bad idea.... an even better idea would make them have mostly Essence based charms, with the occasional Ability and Attribute ones. Totaly doing this, i can alterate the guidelines of creating a Primordial charmset to have it more easy. Assuming that my memory of us having guidelines to create Primordial charmsets is right. ), but the whole "Twilight Exalteds trying to create exaltations" is totally going to go one of the possible backstories.

They are going to bounce from hand to hand a lot untill they are usable, (Discordian can imitate badly many essence types, so everybody is going to make them work unsuccessfully.) but they are going to be usable! (At least in that backstory.)

About the Exigents/New exalted: the problem with the exigents, at least to me, is that they seem easy to make. The flame seemed to be out untill the Solars returned (More Solar importance! Whoo. hoo. hoo. ), but then even a lesser terrestrial god in a village besieged by raksha was capable of getting one.

Maybe it was to stop the raksha to go to an important place, but still: a little podunk in the middle of nowhere got an exalted level combatant from nothing but the sacrifice of a Terrestrial god. (And celestial politics.) Something like, maybe, the sacrifice of several wealth five things would make a lot rarer and valuable.

I still would like something like a way to create more Exalted level special bosses (The groups of minor powers by Earthscorpion partially sated my low level opponent needs. I still want more, PLS?)... something like Human Shaped Behemots? The works of hundred of special peoples for years and years and loads of resources (Multiple level five resources, nothing easy to fetch) should be sufficent to create something with low Celestial level charms in some areas. (A living N/A thing essentially. We need more N/A, and rules to make them. Rules to make artifacts in general.)

Incidentally in this system the Liminals would be the above thing: lower thei charms to the terrestial level (They should be Celestial level in the Third edition, at least given that they can learn Martial Arts with the Celestial Keyword), and then someone has discovered a way to "mass produce" Behemots, and discovered a way to send them when someone tries to bring back to life someone.
 
"I ask of you, is not a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow? No, says the Scarlet Empress, it belongs to the Realm. No, says the clergy, it belongs to the Gods. No, says the Anthema, it belongs to me. ..."
 
"I ask of you, is not a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow? No, says the Scarlet Empress, it belongs to the Realm. No, says the clergy, it belongs to the Gods. No, says the Anthema, it belongs to me. ..."
I mean, you could also have him as an Infernal who dipped heavy into Bank Squid's charmset (along with Malfeas', much as he'd refuse to cop to that) in an Exalted Modern setting, with Rapture as his way of fulfilling his Urge of "create a city worthy of the Reclamation" while still setting things up as he likes it. Fontaine becomes somebody who managed to work out enough thaumaturgy to start summoning neomah, who he then puts to work fleshcrafting up new and lucrative treatments for the common yutzes; Splicers result from a combination of imperfections in the process, people trying to emulate what he did and ending up pawns of less-than-friendly 2CDs, and industrial sabotage.
 
"I ask of you, is not a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow? No, says the Scarlet Empress, it belongs to the Realm. No, says the clergy, it belongs to the Gods. No, says the Anthema, it belongs to me. ..."

"I rejected these answers... and then Exalted as an Zenith. Now I shall impose a perfectly free market, where men thrive based on their personal skill with no one else to hold them back. What, you think it's unfair just because I have a Solar dice cap and you're a mortal? Sounds like you're a parasite. We have to watch for those damn Autochthonianists."
 
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"I ask of you, is not a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow? No, says the Scarlet Empress, it belongs to the Realm. No, says the clergy, it belongs to the Gods. No, says the Anthema, it belongs to me. ..."
...Goddammit, now I want to see a character who's thing is that they turned themself into a bootstrapped Alchemical made of an entirely artificial Magic Material that isn't attuned to anything in particular.
 
"I rejected these answers... and then Exalted as an Zenith. Now I shall impose a perfectly free market, where men thrive based on their personal skill with no one else to hold them back. What, you think it's unfair just because I have a Solar dice cap and you're a mortal? Sounds like you're a parasite. We have to watch for those damn Autochthonianists."


I am, like, 100% sure someone already did this in the first age.
 
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A thing that's extra cool is also that she's specifically Exalted of Wu-Jian, and an Exigent that got their Exaltation from another City Parent from a city with a different character could have a very different take on similar themes.

Well, sort of. Here is her blurb:

Revana Quin was Chosen by the city father of Wu-Jian, the overgrown Western city where crime runs rampant and unchecked. The daughter of a notorious smuggler and pirate captain, Revana had all her mother's bravado and cunning, but had a gift of perspective that saw beyond individual profit and the next day's haul. It was this that drew the spirit of Wu-Jian to her, seeking a champion to protect the city from both internal dissolution and threats from beyond. Revana accepted—but it was not just the city father's lesser divinity that empowered her. For an instant, she glimpsed the chatoyant towers of Yu-Shan, the heavenly city, and saw the face of the god of the shining metropolis, her true patron and her second mother. Now, she is a power to be reckoned with, doing her best to keep peace between all who call Wu-Jian their home.

And the first bit of her Excellency:

As an Architect, Revana may add up to (Attribute) dice to an action with her Excellency. If she is in an urban area and stunts an action in a way that describes how she uses the environment to her advantage, this increases to (Attribute + Ability).

From this I infer a few things:
  1. She's actually an Exalted Of The God Of Cities, or maybe an Exalted Of Both Of Them In Combination.
  2. "Architect" is the name of Exalteds Of The God Of Cities, and the variation between ones of different cities is similar to the variation between different Solars or DBs.
  3. Exigents is probably going to include several categories of Exigent (including Architects) with full Charm trees as mini-splats. So, mechanically, you get that variation just by each individual taking different Charms.
 
From a 1e and 2e viewpoint, all original Exalts were made by Autochthon and the Incarna/Elemental Dragons working together, except for Alchemicals who were Autochthon's work alone.
This was eventually true, but you wouldn't know it from Games of Divinity, in which the Incarna and Elemental Dragons were not aided in the creation of the Exalted by Autochthon but were joined by numerous weaker gods. Their role was later written out, which is a bit of a pity, but there could easily have been Chosen from many gods besides the Incarna. With 3e's Exigents there now are.
 
Well, sort of. Here is her blurb:



And the first bit of her Excellency:



From this I infer a few things:
  1. She's actually an Exalted Of The God Of Cities, or maybe an Exalted Of Both Of Them In Combination.
  2. "Architect" is the name of Exalteds Of The God Of Cities, and the variation between ones of different cities is similar to the variation between different Solars or DBs.
  3. Exigents is probably going to include several categories of Exigent (including Architects) with full Charm trees as mini-splats. So, mechanically, you get that variation just by each individual taking different Charms.

Holy shit! I didn't even realize that. Radical.
 
...Goddammit, now I want to see a character who's thing is that they turned themself into a bootstrapped Alchemical made of an entirely artificial Magic Material that isn't attuned to anything in particular.
That sounds dangerously close to special snowflakeness. magical materials are written into Creation's code and there's already an artificial one it's called soulsteel.

Also iirc there's already fluff about autochthon divinely inspiring mortals so they can make alchemicals.
 
By the way, @EarthScorpion- the Fourth Soul writeup doc never actually provides the explanation of Pantheon-Keyworded Charms that Aleph provides... lessee... here. Or any indication where it might be found, nor is it provided in The Book of Ten Thousand Scorpions. Could you please edit it into one of the two if possible? Like, I've got it bookmarked, but new readers are out of luck here.

(Speaking of, with the Elloge Charmset, what would potential Pantheon-keyworded Charms be?
 
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The problem with Exigents is that, for all that people have made extremely eloquent points on the subject, all the same points could have easily just been applied to increasing the power threshold of Godblooded as a concept. There is nothing so inherent to the goals intended to be solved by the introduction of Exigents that the "Exalted" qualifier is required at all, save that you get to write "Exalted" on the character sheet. "Exigence" is so vague, and so wibbly-wobbly inclusive of "everything else" that the only thing it amounts to is ultimately handing off Devil-Tigerism "do your own thing I guess" Charm-reskinning to players who aren't really willing to engage with the major fixtures and archetypal roles of the setting, but still want to be called an Exalt.

Yes, there is conceptual baggage to being a Lunar, or a Sidereal, or an Alchemical, etc, but the baggage is part of the draw to the primary Exalted types because it assures that somebody, somewhere, will be able to look at you and go "I know your kind, you're an X! And for that I must destroy you!" Meanwhile, Exigents get nothing. They're a nonentity, so specific and exclusive that they are utterly disconnected with the setting at large, the major factions, the historic conflicts, and well, Anything that typically drives an Exalted campaign which is not "everyone roll out running trumped-up D&D dungeon crawls with magical powers," which is a poor method of articulating just how meaningful the Exalted are intended to be on a setting-defining scale. Conceptually they are free-agents locked into a tiresome "what are you, Anathema, I have never seen your like before" "that's because I'm super-special and unique, unlike those Solars" narratives.

Like, I will say this straight-up: Exalted of any stripe shouldn't be seen as "street-level" powers, and categorizing them that way actively undermines the narratives at the core of the game. Dragonblooded are weaker Exalts individually, but they still hold the power to create empires which Matter on the world-stage. Alchemicals who aren't hyperfocusing into a gearset might lack higher-end Celestial strength of mechanics, but they are still living institutions and well-known celebrities across their civilization. Street-level is mortals and mortals-with-extras, the people who fight in the trenches made by Exalted, working around them like unquestionable absolutes. The kinds of problems you see at the street-level aren't the things you need Exalted for, nor were they built to accomplish, no matter how numerous like the Dragonblooded they might end up being.

When you couch Creation in the context that every problem is something that an Exalt can solve, as a higher threshold of power from those around them, eventually you reach a position where only the Exalted are allowed to solve those problems because the alternatives will inherently be inferior. And in that way, Godblooded and Exigents cannot coexist anymore than Celestial Half-Castes can in a world where Dragonblooded are intended to be mainstays of "power determined by magical bloodline and heritage." What you get is simply mechanical niche-stepping and obviously less-useful roles attempting to occupy the same narratives, diluting them to the point where there is no punchy resonance to be had with the mythic tropes Exalted likes to hang itself on.
 
Then this mightiest of gods actually allowed lesser gods to wield this power. This actually fits really well with the role of the Unconquered Sun as some good, virtuous person.
"I am Sol, a powerful warlord who just used semi-divine mortals to overthrew my boss so I can rule over Heaven."
"I will now give my subordinates the ability to create semi-divine mortals who can overthrow their boss so they can rule over Heaven."
"This is an intelligent course of action."

Games of Divinity has Sol being very pleased that the Solars couldn't multiply or breed, lest they build Celestial dynasties that could one day threaten his dominion. He might even have deliberately restricted that capability, I don't recall. Him handing out the ability to create Exalted is totally out of character. If nothing else, it's about as responsible as the US winning the Cold War and then deciding to hand out its spare nukes as party favours at the UN.

Moreover, even if passing out weapons of mass destruction to bureaucrats was evidence of being a good, virtuous person, I don't agree that being such a person should be Sol's role. He's a war god, conquering king, and fiery defender of Creation. He has no more need to be an objectively great guy, Superman cast in gold, than Jupiter, Ra, or Indra. The latter is particularly relevant, given he's sometimes depicted as using thunder to interrupt meditating monks, lest they achieve enlightenment and become more powerful than him.

Plus, you can put all sort of power politics into it if you want to be more nefarious. From "leave me alone to my games, here's a tool for that" over "I did it to undermine the other Incarnae" and a whole bunch of other things, all that fits with Ignis Divine granting other gods access to the Exigence.
Honestly, it's such a daft decision that I'd rather play it straight as being daft, and just have Sol be tricked out of the secret of Exaltation by someone. A lesser god, or whatever. It'd be far more mythological, it'd make it clear that he's not perfect - far more important than making it clear that Solars aren't, given we can play the latter - while acknowledging that it's a stupid thing to do.

So what do we actually get out of Exigents? Both for the setting and individual stories.
As just mentioned, they're simultaneously tied to Solars and sidestep them. They are also a type of hero that's new to the Age of Sorrows, so it's a counter to "everything revolves around Solars" and "Solars are the only heroes that can save us".
I can only disagree with the medicine being proscribed here.

I agree that there was a serious issue in the presentation of Exalted by the time of second edition, in which the Exalted - and within their ranks, the Solars - were regarded as the only threats or actors worth taking seriously. Aside from the Incarnae and Yozis, everyone else was essentially a beanbag, and the fanbase reacted with incredulity whenever it was suggested that a non-Exalt might have got one over an Exalt, even briefly - much less defeated or exceeded them. Similarly, it was a bit suspicious if a "Solaroid" was overcome by a mere Lunar or Sidereal, much less one of the Dragon-blooded!

This was a cocktail of four elements:
a) hype without balance, whereby the deliberately flowery, hyperbolic, or just plain pump-you-up references to Exalted/Solar power and importance within the setting began to eclipse the reality checks and other elements meant to counter it or give it context. This wasn't helped by the echo chamber of forum discussion, occasionally fed new tidbits like "mortals don't get to win".
b) poorly-directed focus, whereby more and more space was dedicated to the specific capabilities of Exalts, instead of the world within which they operate. Similarly, exploration of the minutiae of Exalted functions and genesis, rather than dismissing it as rightly irrelevant. This also wasn't helped by the last few years of the line being dominated by little but reams upon reams of steadily more specific Charms for Exalts.
c) a broken system, whereby only those with Exalted tools could survive for any meaningful length of time, and Exalted tools had to be exclusive to Exalts, and Solars had by definition the best Exalted tools of the lot.
c) writer favouritism and lack of exploration, which led to dumb shit like the Bull of the North being central to every other plot point, even thousands of miles out of his way, or entire plots hinging on the fact that only a Solar would be allowed to pilot a given super-artifact, or gods automatically loving Solars and hating Dragon-blooded.

The solution is to dial back on the excesses and refocus the game, presenting old ideas in fresh ways and spicing it up with new ones. Introducing a new set of Exalted is not, in itself, a solution. Especially not when they occupy already-extant conceptual space, and are intended to fill any and every role by being everything and nothing. That's just doubling-down on the problem, because now the setting tells you that the Volcano God doesn't have magmakin servants and a soulsteel champion forged from the sacrifices thrown into the molten heart of his home - he has a Chosen of the Volcano God, because only the Exalted are important. The scion of a City Father, seizing power from their parent by dominating the dark and unseen side of the streets as a crime lord, is not on the table, because she should be a Chosen of the City Father.

If the problem is too many labels, you do not solve the problem by creating an impossibly broad new label to paste over a bunch of the old ones.

Similarly, to go back a little way...
Well, imagine this:
When the gods sought to overthrow the Primordials, they used the mightiest tool of all times - one that allowed them to channel their very being into mortals, the only way they had to bypass the geas laid upon them. This tool was the Exigence, and after the war it remained in the custody of the Unconquered Sun.

You can have the Exigence as the greatest creation of Autochthon. It's easily the perfect tool because it's capable of shaping essence like nothing else, it can instill creativity and life and all those other things. It's even a perfect contrast to his sickness and fits very well with his theme of surpassing his limitations.
Or you can leave that out, the origin doesn't matter as much after all. Maybe Ignis Divine created it on his own, maybe the other Incarnae helped, maybe it was even a collaborative effort by all the gods or came from somewhere else entirely.
For this entire section you could replace the word "Exaltation" with "Exigence". It's just another layer of complication in a part of the setting that's already too explored. You don't need to create something new to return mystery to the setting, especially not when that "new" thing is just a rehash of an existing element.

It's already been hinted at that getting an Exigence can be as much a matter of celestial politics as anything else. Getting celestial politics more involved in creations story is a good thing in my book, as long as it's not overdone and turns celestial politics into all that matters. Well, the Exigents actually accomplish that.
It's a challenge to players independent from Dragonbloods - which are too tied to their faction - Lunars (same in some ways) and Sidereals (which don't rule territory in Creation). At the same time, they're more human than gods are and can tell different stories.

It actually allows small gods to have an impact on the setting beyond just getting curbed by every major thread. The story of Janest is a great example of that.
Again - if the issue is that gods seem irrelevant in the face of the Exalted, the solution shouldn't be to give the gods Exalted. That's just escalating further. It's like responding to a guns problem by making gun ownership mandatory instead of implementing gun control. The ideas that go into Exigents, like the Strawmaiden, are made less interesting and useful by the addition of the Exalted label.

It makes the setting more homogeneous, not less.

Your ideas for what makes an "Exigent story" unique are solid, but ultimately I find Exigents more of an obstacle to fixing the problems facing Exalted at the end of 2e than an actual solution. Hell, they'd even be more interesting as an umbrella term (like behemoth) for pseudo-Exalted, attempts by non-Incarnae to approximate their own Chosen by various manifold means, rather than an actual distinct category of real Exalted with... basically no uniting features.
 
So I was making an Excel interactive Character Sheet for Dragon-bloods, so that I could throw numbers into the spots and quickly have characters with every value needed present. I Was messing with the Essence pool calculations, and noticed the Breeding adds Breeding Dots to the personal pool (Assuming Legendary is rating 6), and B*2-1, unless value is >2, in which case it is 2 to the peripheral pool.

I Just found it interesting, and was wondering if anyone knows why the essence pool addition is Breeding Dots, and Dots*2-1 for all rating but Breed 1, and If any GM would have a problem just making the Breeding additions to the Essence pool be Breeding dots and D*2, for the Personal and Peripheral Essence pools.
 
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Hi guys i'm back and sorry for being a d*ck a while back and I have an another question

I remember in the previous replies for me that Charms emulated something so my question is what do they emulate? or am I wrong in the emulate part?
 
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