- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
And remember also that most of the veterans (hell, most of everyone) in this very thread are here for the setting (which is a masterpiece) and not the system (which is shitty and useless).
General Exalted Thread
Morphic Tide
Crazy Brainstormer, Munchkin and Wannabe Min-Maxer
- Location
- MI, USA
I dunno, the soak tank idea seems kinda fun. In the way that the Synthesist in Pathfider being able to be tankier than the Barbarian while having a Con score of 3 is fun. It's utterly imbalanced, but in a way that's surprisingly easy to work around.
Just introduce some form of stacking damage buff, like a Charm that can Combo with itself, or a Charm that essentially reads 'Pay X Motes: Deal X more damage' to be able to burst through that massive Soak.
Having to pay Motes equal to the Soak value to bypass it, or double or half, would be a neat way to balance the massive damage resistance. Then you have the alternative option of having ways to scratch damage through the soak.
That is exactly why I'm here. With a small side of noting game design thoughts I have.
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Walker of the Yellow Path
Ho There!
- Location
- The Land of Memes
Eh, that's basically what Excellencies do, considering how excess successes on accuracy rolls roll over into damage.
All you really need to do to beat a heavily Soak monster (assuming he mono specialized for that) is to pop 20 motes 1wp on Infinite Melee Mastery, effectively doubling your DV and accuracy pool for the scene. Then you save all your remaining motes on defense charms, and wail on the enemy with free 20+ Accuracy Pools and a Grand Daiklave, which guarantees you'll deal at least one damage to the enemy with every hit.
Azrael
Sakura Saber
- Location
- Throne of Heroes
...You prefaced this entire thing with 'both lore and mechanics wise' and then the moment people told you how the mechanics don't or shouldn't work like that, your response suddenly became 'but I'm only interested in the lore though'.
By all indications, you do not want to actually engage in this argument. Why then, are you still doing that?
Yeah, most Magical things bypass Hardness. Like, as of the errata at least, anything with the Overwhelming tag just ignores Hardness, and every 'artifact' weapon in the corebook was given the tag.
It basically exists to say 'I'm invincible against mortal men' and let you wade into armies without dying to mooks.
- Location
- Philippines
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What's the problem of me liking the lore more than the game mechanics?
- Location
- Spain
Why do you keep asking for mechanics, then?
Well, hardness is actually useful and works well in 3e.
Morphic Tide
Crazy Brainstormer, Munchkin and Wannabe Min-Maxer
- Location
- MI, USA
...Why did it take me so long to understand that the Infinite Masteries allow infinite Mote spending on them... Although, the question of how long the Mastery lasts is still important, because if you have to blow 30 Motes to do more than one damage, you need to get more damage in that time than the opponent has health. And isn't the Infinite Mastery typically an Essence 3 or 4 effect? Or is it having 4 or 5 in the skill?
It's Ability 4, Essence 3.
- Location
- Spain
What the fuck are you talking about?
Morphic Tide
Crazy Brainstormer, Munchkin and Wannabe Min-Maxer
- Location
- MI, USA
It's a talk about Soak tanking. If you use Infinite Melee/Brawl/Thrown/Archery Mastery to get past it, you still need to have it last long enough to actually get the kill.
Walker of the Yellow Path
Ho There!
- Location
- The Land of Memes
It technically allows Infinte more spending, but it's really capped at 20 since Excellencies can't ever give you more than 10 dice.
EDIT: And it's a scene long, so theirs little chance of it running out before you kill them.
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Isn't the semi-unlimited mote spending option an E4 upgrade?
- Location
- Singapore
martial arts and sorcery is awesome. as is the concepts of exalts.
oops. wrong word
a question. what would glory girl's shield be classified as?
Ah yes, sorry., that is correct. Essence 3 you can spend up to 6 motes.
Morphic Tide
Crazy Brainstormer, Munchkin and Wannabe Min-Maxer
- Location
- MI, USA
So it's a fairly high end thing. If the balance point is that Soak tanking bleeds Motes like crazy from trying to get past it, then it should only be doable at extremely high XP count games. Conversely, if it's to see standard play, then the counter is crazy numbers of attacks to scratch through it.
If you're really interested in (Second Edition's) mechanics and for some reason are allergic to books, there's an interactive tutorial here that walks you through combat and explains stuff like soak and so on. It would probably be a better use of time than constantly asking inane mechanical questions.
NonSequtur
a body
Graypairofsocks
What is Grammar?
- Location
- earth
1once per tick automatic blocking thingy.
Walker of the Yellow Path
Ho There!
- Location
- The Land of Memes
Even with the Essence 3 Version of the Charm (which you can get in char creation), you'll still have on average a 3 dice advantage on the Soak Monster, which applies to both Offense and Defense (Assuming both have Dex 5 Melee 5 Specialty 3). Plus you can also pop Fivefold Bulwark Stance to make sure you're always parrying at your fullest DV.
Which ends with the Soak Monster unable to get through his opponents defense, with the opponent being able to much more easily do so, and in the end the battle of attrition becomes tilted towards the Melee user.
- Location
- Singapore
Well, it's also able to block anything.
What about gavel? soak?
Morphic Tide
Crazy Brainstormer, Munchkin and Wannabe Min-Maxer
- Location
- MI, USA
Yes, but this a question for making a Soak Monster dedicated set of Charms that don't exist currently to make it so that Soak monsters aren't able to be killed without a significant investment of Motes or time, to make that exact situation you described, a Melee focused starting character stomping a Soak monster, unable to happen.
At the very least, it ought to either take long enough to be a serious obstacle of the 'impassible beat stick' sort, or take a serious spending of Motes to get through. It would probably involve a way to boost Hardness to the point that Exalts of the same category and Essence rating have to spend Motes for the chance to hit in the first place.
Actually, given the amount of time between blocks, I think that it would more likely be a conditional 3 or 4 auto-block/negate per tick. Like, only triggers once per X Speed total.
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Graypairofsocks
What is Grammar?
- Location
- earth
He doesnt subtract damage like soak.
IIRC his power makes anything that attacks him incapable of hurting him more than a certain amount.
Morphic Tide
Crazy Brainstormer, Munchkin and Wannabe Min-Maxer
- Location
- MI, USA
So, Infinite Soak? All damage reduced to one health level of damage.
Would giving a river the mechanical effects of celestial wine when drunk be within the power of a level five artifact?
FaeGlade Plural
Semper Legens
- Location
- Land of Bureaucracy
- Pronouns
- Plural/They
Okay, @Kinunatzs , you want Exalted "Lore", descriptions of what Exalts are actually capable of?
Then stop asking for game mechanics. It doesn't matter what numbers the game uses, or whether it's called soak or hardness, or other stuff like that.
Well anyway, let me give you a description of the "Lore" on what an Exalt is capable of, in terms of durability.
A Solar Swordswoman can be shot at by an army, and turn aside every single arrow they fire at her with her blade. She can even protect the defenseless child she is protecting. To strike her, you need to be better than the best swordsman who has ever lived. It is this way because she is just that experienced at anticipating every angle of attack and making her sword glide through fluid parries, because she swings her sword with such ease and such force that she can counter this hail of arrows. But this isn't automatic - she can run out of stamina to do so, or she can be bested by a skilled opponent.
A Exalt can be tough enough that their body is as durable as inch-thick supernaturally hardened steel plate. They can be tough enough to turn aside a hammer made from solid magic gold, or withstand the bite of a T-Rex with barely a scratch. But that can be overcome - they aren't forever immune to such attacks. Maybe they can withstand three such blows, but the fourth might damage them. A more precise strike may harm them, or they may be able to withstand an exploding volcano but be hurt by the fiery sword of another Exalt.
You seem to be looking for some sort of comparison to comicbook superheroes, and the really strong ones like that.
But that's not the sort of story Exalted is telling. Exalted tells the story of the heroes of mythology - it's Achilles and Gilgamesh and Sun Wukong and Emer, and many other (less eurocentric) heroes. Their story isn't measured in what sort of force they can exert or overcome, they're measured in their deeds and foes and challenges.
There's a lot of difference in how such heroes engage with the world and their peers, and trying to reduce it down to a simple number-measuring contest rather cheapens that.
Then stop asking for game mechanics. It doesn't matter what numbers the game uses, or whether it's called soak or hardness, or other stuff like that.
Well anyway, let me give you a description of the "Lore" on what an Exalt is capable of, in terms of durability.
A Solar Swordswoman can be shot at by an army, and turn aside every single arrow they fire at her with her blade. She can even protect the defenseless child she is protecting. To strike her, you need to be better than the best swordsman who has ever lived. It is this way because she is just that experienced at anticipating every angle of attack and making her sword glide through fluid parries, because she swings her sword with such ease and such force that she can counter this hail of arrows. But this isn't automatic - she can run out of stamina to do so, or she can be bested by a skilled opponent.
A Exalt can be tough enough that their body is as durable as inch-thick supernaturally hardened steel plate. They can be tough enough to turn aside a hammer made from solid magic gold, or withstand the bite of a T-Rex with barely a scratch. But that can be overcome - they aren't forever immune to such attacks. Maybe they can withstand three such blows, but the fourth might damage them. A more precise strike may harm them, or they may be able to withstand an exploding volcano but be hurt by the fiery sword of another Exalt.
You seem to be looking for some sort of comparison to comicbook superheroes, and the really strong ones like that.
But that's not the sort of story Exalted is telling. Exalted tells the story of the heroes of mythology - it's Achilles and Gilgamesh and Sun Wukong and Emer, and many other (less eurocentric) heroes. Their story isn't measured in what sort of force they can exert or overcome, they're measured in their deeds and foes and challenges.
There's a lot of difference in how such heroes engage with the world and their peers, and trying to reduce it down to a simple number-measuring contest rather cheapens that.