Dragon Kings in the 41st Millennia (Exalted/40K Empire)

we currently have 5 producing 25 power of which we are using 22
Sorry to correct you on this Bear but we actually only have just the one relay at the moment the five in the assets post is the total amount of power all relays are producing and since we only have the one, well you get the picture.

--[X] In Built Ark (Adamant Counter Spell): Cost: 3AP + 1 Logistics cost (? unsure if I got cost right)
It's just +1 logistics per ark included so there's no need to put that 3ap in there.
 
yay progress!
Sorry to correct you on this Bear but we actually only have just the one relay at the moment the five in the assets post is the total amount of power all relays are producing and since we only have the one, well you get the picture.
I think he is including the ones auto built for the flotilla?

You only have one built directly.
 
Sorry to correct you on this Bear but we actually only have just the one relay at the moment the five in the assets post is the total amount of power all relays are producing and since we only have the one, well you get the picture.


It's just +1 logistics per ark included so there's no need to put that 3ap in there.
3 more than 6 more than 9 more etc.

plus more logistics for each of course.
The above quote refers to cost for additional arks and what I'm basing the cost on, I'm not 100% sure it refers to Ap on that first line or if I filled in the line of my vote correctly.

... I find it a weird way to mark relays, shrug now I know how it is marked. So if understand right for power, ships cost power which is generated by hearthstones and hence manses. The power rating is how many manses are used (so at base no options, the mk2 will use 21 hearthstones). If we build a relay that generates power that can be used for ships so it counts as 5 manses effectively. Is this correct?

So if we ever do need additional hearthstones we can focus on building relays, fortunately we have a lot of available manses at the moment so less of a priority to build additional relays
 
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Much Necron Ranting to be had.

This...this is a win condition, right? /joking

I have no idea what this means.

There's something odd going on with the Ophelis system from it's CCI analogue the Eldar set up, making the system more difficult to reach. We can build a Harmonious Lore Understanding Manse with a Hidden Empyerean add-on to roll 1d100 every turn, and should we roll 100 (which could be "now" or could be "never" depending on how the dice are feeling) we notice something about the phenomenon that lets us research it directly. Instead of rolling the dice, could I just ask my question and get to the next stage of the process?

You CAN ask, but...

You have a LOT of points of interest that have not been explored. Do you really see ANY value in another one on the list?

Like... there are things people have been clamoring for and being like "when do we get this!" and I am like "when you go look for it dummies!"

You have like what, 6+ locations you know EXACTLY where to go to find something interesting and STILL haven't gone there. Much less actual exploration.

If you know why the Pterok are miserable. BOOM! Right there.

Divination AND elemental summoning are things Pterok are better at than other Dragon Kings... not things they enjoy doing more than other Dragon Kings.

So...who wants to build a Pillar of Understanding and have it do a cruise around the Koronus Expanse investigating all these points of interest? I think we can knock it out with just 2 turns of work once we get the Exotic income situation sorted and then it's Factory Cathedrals x4, Ateliers x8, Exotics x9 and ~7 successes on regular construction. Hopefully that helps scratch that itch they've got.

Also, how do the Pterok feel about creating Harmonious Lore Understanding manses (ignoring the Breed Home portion, which I presume they're at least somewhat in favor of)? "at last investment in research" or "those manses are stealing our jobs"?

...

Scroll down a few posts... I already gave it.

That was fast. /joke
Thanks, I apparently missed that.


Warp storm seems extreme but technically. Like 25 would probably get you through the wall at the Gothic Sector border during the crusade.

YOu need 125 for some serious warp shenanigans though.

Mostly this is to allow your escorted ships to have discount bargain Wondrous Globe effects when the do not have any globe at all.

...I'm okay with building 125 divinely inspired templeships built from the keel out to ruin Chaos' day. Might take us a little effort building out the various Academies and Naval Oversight facilities to handle the upkeep, but that gives us something to work for. It'll be fun, and definately won't be the basis of 'enlightenment' jokes used after the project is started. (There is at least one lie in that statement)

Hatra is that world, IIRC. It's the one I want to settle next, after Valki, Therak IIIa/Vaniwayan, and the Waystation to Joura. But yeah, if Pterok are miserable we should get moving on the Waystation to Joura and a Ship Design Studio where they can play long before we settle Hatra. And perhaps design a small scout/exploration that doesn't require nearly the entire crew to walk the Shimmering Water Path, so Pterok can join in the fun.

The Golden Scale Chariots have the improved sensors trait and can fight in space (less efficiently than most of our ships but not poorly) and can put boots on the ground with space overwatch. It's not an ideal scout ship, but it's a pretty good one that we've already got a design for (and we should be able to put a specialist with a suit on it once that research is completed). They're cheap(er) to build in pairs as well; 2 Factory Cathedrals, 2 Ateliers, 2 Exotic Stockpiles and 6 rolled successes.

Also I should note that if we are planning on doing shipbuilding it's possible to improve administrative discounts by putting Machine Intelligences on them. It's got upkeep, but we save more than we spend in upkeep.

Anyway, Hatra is one world that we can drop an HLU manse and get the +1 Pterok Breed AP, but I still expect to put just the one HLU unless there's something special about that place that incentivizes HLUs more than Enlightened Savant manses. I want to colonize multiple worlds so we can get multiple AP off them rather than just hope Hatra does it for us.

Lets say we complete a Continual grace every... 3 turns (so would be spending what 10ap and an exotic a turn? with some adjustment if we do particularly good or bad on the action)

There's a formula for how often we can do the Continual Grace project, but I'm hopeful that we're able to supplement the AP cost with ork sacrifices by the tens of millions so we've got an efficient 'reactor' effect going on while also expanding the number of Dragon Kings we have available to do things like 'colonize a new world and get AP for other stuff'.

[X] Swift and deadly Herald mk2
I can live with this one (although I'm amused by the possibility that each of our Heralds Mk. 2 had a plant-growth ark and we just stationed them above agri-worlds when not in use and made bumper crops out of nowhere)
 
There's a formula for how often we can do the Continual Grace project, but I'm hopeful that we're able to supplement the AP cost with ork sacrifices by the tens of millions so we've got an efficient 'reactor' effect going on while also expanding the number of Dragon Kings we have available to do things like 'colonize a new world and get AP for other stuff'.
Yep 10-current population/population increase, I was more thinking in terms of opportunity cost vs population growth. Once we reach 300 million pop we could in theory do the 30 Million every turn, although that requires 26 successes which can be a big ask for every turn, hence the 10 ap a turn cycle... although if we do it that way it is probably worth it to do 40 Million (thinking in terms of the formula, after 300 million, if we do 40 million we have a two turn cool down so it fits, 50 million would have 4 turn so a bit too long) population growth.

Equally there will be issues social issues due to the number of new souls being introduced. As I understand it the Dragon Kings we arrived with had multiple reincarnations where they slowly regained memories of their past lives, all of which were praising Sol. The new souls don't have that... although I am hoping that Exoeidetic memory engrams might help, at least in part. I'm not sure if the issue has already been resolved, or if it is less of an issue that we thought.

The sacrificing tens of millions of Orks seems like the sort of thing we should have a full prepared navy (multiple of each of our current temple ship designs... heavier ships can wait a bit) and army (modernization finished) for, we would be targeting fairly populated ork worlds which could trigger a large response on a bad roll. One should never underestimate the threat of the Orks, or the ficklety of the dice, after all.



...I'm okay with building 125 divinely inspired templeships built from the keel out to ruin Chaos' day. Might take us a little effort building out the various Academies and Naval Oversight facilities to handle the upkeep, but that gives us something to work for. It'll be fun, and definitely won't be the basis of 'enlightenment' jokes used after the project is started. (There is at least one lie in that statement)
Note we probably don't need them all to be temple ships for the Wondrous Globe of Precious Stability/Theion drive synergy... although we might need to research the Theion drive to the same level as the MK2's, so we can probably fit some smaller ships into the formation, and some bigger ships such as whatever the Unconquerable Class would look like with our current options (note researching Titanic Sutra weapons probably a good idea), and some Conquest Platforms. This is a very long term goal... honestly that fleet strength just in terms of 125 cruisers for this purpose well that's bigger than a sector battlefleet in 40k (which should be less than the total imperial forces in a sector due to the other imperial factions)

Oh, and I'm all for making the Pillar of Understanding... although I want to make it with at least a few HR class to serve as escorts... And I would want to update the Pillar with a Coronal Storm Barriers, although I'm not sure if it is possible to do so.


Technically all we need to do to make a good scout ship, Sloop, Adamant Hull, Umbral Drive, Ftl, Essence Battlement, and basic weapons. Adamant provides advanced senosrs and makes it easier to hit with basic weapons. If we are willing to increase the upkeep cost we could instead have storm shields and use the extra slot for a stronger weapon, extra health, it's own cargo bay, etc. Umbral drive makes the ship naturally stealthy which is good for the role.





As an aside, when it comes to the day/night fleet concept, the term Dawn/Night fleet has started to pop up in my head more often... which is more to go with the Solar exalted caste roles than anything else.
 
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We can build a Harmonious Lore Understanding Manse with a Hidden Empyerean add-on to roll 1d100 every turn, and should we roll 100 (which could be "now" or could be "never" depending on how the dice are feeling) we notice something about the phenomenon that lets us research it directly. Instead of rolling the dice, could I just ask my question and get to the next stage of the process?

No

Also, how do the Pterok feel about creating Harmonious Lore Understanding manses (ignoring the Breed Home portion, which I presume they're at least somewhat in favor of)? "at last investment in research" or "those manses are stealing our jobs"?

Slight positive.

Not that is building a new manse, expanding an existing one is basically neutral.
 
Yep 10-current population/population increase, I was more thinking in terms of opportunity cost vs population growth. Once we reach 300 million pop we could in theory do the 30 Million every turn, although that requires 26 successes which can be a big ask for every turn, hence the 10 ap a turn cycle... although if we do it that way it is probably worth it to do 40 Million (thinking in terms of the formula, after 300 million, if we do 40 million we have a two turn cool down so it fits, 50 million would have 4 turn so a bit too long) population growth.

Equally there will be issues social issues due to the number of new souls being introduced. As I understand it the Dragon Kings we arrived with had multiple reincarnations where they slowly regained memories of their past lives, all of which were praising Sol. The new souls don't have that... although I am hoping that Exoeidetic memory engrams might help, at least in part. I'm not sure if the issue has already been resolved, or if it is less of an issue that we thought.

Dealing with the social issues is part of the reason for the cooldown IIRC (though not the greatest portion, which would likely be more of the practical side like 'how do we determine how many new Dragon Kings become savants or sailors or priests of X god or geomancers etc).

Cost-wise I would rather do 'all 20+ AP at once' instead of 10 AP/ turn just to reduce the Exotic Stockpile and divination costs associated with it, and with mass sacrifices we get some AP rebates in addition to the savings (10m sacrificed Dragon Kings gets us 6 successes and 1 AP back, I presume the sacrificed Orks will do something similar but without the -AP costs associated with losing a good portion of our population).

The sacrificing tens of millions of Orks seems like the sort of thing we should have a full prepared navy (multiple of each of our current temple ship designs... heavier ships can wait a bit) and army (modernization finished) for, we would be targeting fairly populated ork worlds which could trigger a large response on a bad roll. One should never underestimate the threat of the Orks, or the ficklety of the dice, after all.

I'm trying to do a pair of Study actions ("Ork raiding" and "Sacrifices") to check in character, but there were two suggested raiding strategies for the Orks by StarJaunter; one was to spread out the raids with a lot of small ships, each doing pinprick damage to the Orks that are largely ignored and easily overlooked. The other was to build a cruiser-sized raiding ship that focused its ire on a single planet and was more efficient but raised the local Waaaagh level accordingly.

Of the two I'm on the fence about which I prefer; I intend to have a lot of cruiser-sized ships in our navy but having a bunch of small ships gives more independent command to Mosok sailors, thus giving them greater chances to earn glory. I'd say I'm ~60/40 favoring the 'small ships en masse' option but I could be easily swayed depending on the results of the study.

(I want to get Rolling Earth Ramparts researched to help make slave ships more secure, incidentally)

Oh, and I'm all for making the Pillar of Understanding... although I want to make it with at least a few HR class to serve as escorts... And I would want to update the Pillar with a Coronal Storm Barriers, although I'm not sure if it is possible to do so.

For local exploration I'm sure we can let it go unattended; even without being a dedicated combat platform it is a battleship-sized vessel with magitech 'basic weapons' crewed by apex predator demigods. I won't say nothing could harm it, but it's fairly safe and we can send help if we need to.

Also we've got a fair bit of local curiosities to work through right now; I don't know what is up with Melbethe but I low key wonder if it's like a turbo-charged +Raptok AP world given it sounds like it's a single mass of thorns.

As an aside, when it comes to the day/night fleet concept, the term Dawn/Night fleet has started to pop up in my head more often... which is more to go with the Solar exalted caste roles than anything else.

I'm okay with 'dawn/night' terminology, but it may take some time for my brain to adjust.


Curses! The answer I was worried you'd give!

Slight positive.

Not that is building a new manse, expanding an existing one is basically neutral.

As I understand it, the Pterok are doing 'divination/elemental summoning' work basically as their social duty, but what they're really keen on is research. Are they overly picky about the kind of research (ie "5 AP on Reality Editing is better than 5 AP on ship design is better than 5 AP on Autochthonic Weird Stuff (lightbulbs etc)") or is it more about the degree of investment and novelty?


@ thread
In character you know that they were either recharging or maintaining some form of technology that the Craftworlds lack the infrastructure to deal with. You get the impression it was many small somethings as they talked about getting to stay longer than normal with your protections. So they basically rebuilt their stockpile of whatever that was during this.

You can ask what that is as a question if you want.

Currently thinking this^ or the Gaia World option (or a variant like "how would a Gaian Daemonworld effect sector-wide Wyld stability, ie would it help/hinder/not effect Warp Rift effects in the region") for the question. I'm slightly favoring this as we've got a lot of colonizing to do before we get to making Gaia Worlds (5 uncolonized worlds and counting) and we've got the upcoming Eldar Trade I want to prepare for, adding one more potential trade item may have unknown but helpful benefits.
 
As I understand it, the Pterok are doing
Pterok want to go on adventures and write travelogues. They are basically you tube content creators who do lore videos and retelling of adventures they went on.

Research (and sky ships) IS their secondary thing. Divination and elementals are things they happen to be better at than average, not what they want to do.
 
@StarJaunter , I assume Incantation of the Invincible Army will not work on ship crews. What about Blessed is the Light and Grace Dawns Eternal, please? May we use those arks on naval crews during a space battle? How much would Grace improve battle rolls?

I think we would need more than 15 turns to have 5 Heralds built and affordable. We will need 5 templeships plus 5 Wondrous Globes and support vessels to complete the Caches Quest, and additional ships besides those to protect both Ophelis and the Waystation. I think we should absolutely build 5 Heralds w/ Wondrous Globes before attempting the fight against the Devils, for the Talisman of Vaul Quest.

We can't put those quests off for an excessively long time. It'll take more than 15 turns to afford all those ships because we'll need more than just Heralds, we'll want to build a Factory Ship, a Golden Scale or 2 for exploration, etc. We'll also need to dedicate upkeep to additional costs at some point: the most basic Planetary Guards are 1 Upkeep per planet. Revolutionary Security Measures, the moonsilver mine on Therak, starmetal gathering on Valki, every Wondrous Globe and Void Abacus built separately, every Moon's Loving Hatchery and Wayfinder Gens, every atelier manse and Factory Cathedral, every Advisor Class Automata, recharging Cores for the trade with Ulthwe... we must pay upkeep for each of these as well. We can't spend all our population just to afford upkeep on solar Templeships.

I am having trouble following the math, and I don't recognize the acronyms Bear Templar is using, but all that will take more than 15 turns of steady population growth to afford.

By the way, it'll take 13 AP with average rolls to get the 9 successes for an Academy of Constellations.

With all that said, I still think we should not design this ship to require 6 upkeep. And I'm leaning towards the boarding Field with all StarJaunter has said about its advantages. Plus Dual Sutra Batteries.

I'm trying to do a pair of Study actions ("Ork raiding" and "Sacrifices") to check in character, but there were two suggested raiding strategies for the Orks by StarJaunter; one was to spread out the raids with a lot of small ships, each doing pinprick damage to the Orks that are largely ignored and easily overlooked. The other was to build a cruiser-sized raiding ship that focused its ire on a single planet and was more efficient but raised the local Waaaagh level accordingly.

Of the two I'm on the fence about which I prefer; I intend to have a lot of cruiser-sized ships in our navy but having a bunch of small ships gives more independent command to Mosok sailors, thus giving them greater chances to earn glory. I'd say I'm ~60/40 favoring the 'small ships en masse' option but I could be easily swayed depending on the results of the study.
I strongly prefer the option that is not going to rile up other Waaaaagh!s and attract offworld Orks to the battle.
 
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What about Blessed is the Light and Grace Dawns Eternal, please? May we use those arks on naval crews during a space battle? How much would Grace improve battle rolls?
Not much?

I mean... A Grace Dawns Eternal Ark could be used to grant a ship elite status for a +2 bonus. But that wouldn't need refreshed every combat, you just need to dedicated enough in a turn to repeatedly infuse and use it on multiple ships and than you get the 10 turns or so of elite status.

If it was built in I guess I would assume the ship was always elite?


Blessed is the light is healing right? Does it repair artifacts? if not it doesn't help much.

I think we would need more than 15 turns to have 5 Heralds built and affordable

Your population is growing, your number of worlds is growing. Keep in up and you could have both the Atlaaki and Hatra sub-sectors colonized by 15 turns.

I think we should absolutely build 5 Heralds w/ Wondrous Globes before attempting the fight against the Devils, for the Talisman of Vaul Quest.
While its not like they would hurt, if you don't have a barracks on the heralds, how would they help conquer the Ruinous Devil Strewn Fortress? You still need to bring troops.


I am getting the weird feeling I gave you guys too much choice for your Ship choices.
 
I strongly prefer the option that is not going to rile up other Waaaaagh!s and attract offworld Orks to the battle.

Please include the Ork Raids and Slave Sacrifices study options in your plans so we can move forward on this.

Pterok want to go on adventures and write travelogues. They are basically you tube content creators who do lore videos and retelling of adventures they went on.

Research (and sky ships) IS their secondary thing. Divination and elementals are things they happen to be better at than average, not what they want to do.

So then, the Breed preferences break down to something like

Anklok
  • Enjoy Praising the Sun and conducting rituals to the Most High
  • Like military endeavors that involve bloody combat and glorious victory
  • Do priestly endeavors for gods other than the Unconquered Sun
Mosok
  • Enjoy spy stuff and piracy
  • Like mercentile endeavors
  • Do shipbuilding and martial arts
Pterok
  • Enjoy Adventure, ho! exploration, the really complicated puzzles
  • Like research and sorcery
  • Do divination, elemental work, bureaucracy and skyships
Raptok
  • Enjoy Building Cool Stuff (relics, high potency artifacts, esoteric manse construction)
  • Like diplomacy, regular geomancy, some engineering
  • Do medicine, plantations & ranches, engineering
Does this look about right?

By the way, it'll take 13 AP with average rolls to get the 9 successes for an Academy of Constellations.

I'm curious as to whether Marela would be helpful in setting up an Academy of Constellations; I'm mostly thinking of 3e's Sea Devil Training Technique (Essence 3, Sail 5) which is 4 charms in and the first two are gimmies for basically any Solar aboard a ship and the third is darn useful for anyone commanding more than one ship. Given that she's a [Sail] + [War] Half-Caste I think we can assume that she's likely to develop those charms on her own, and even if she doesn't give an AP towards setting up the school I can see it as helping to ensure that any ship she's assigned to for more than a turn or so can be expected to have an Elite crew.

Your population is growing, your number of worlds is growing. Keep in up and you could have both the Atlaaki and Hatra sub-sectors colonized by 15 turns.

"We're working on it!"
Also I'm keen on developing a Leeyata Templeship to help with invasions for the attack. We'll want to get the Conquest Dias researched to help with that, and probably something for planetary bombardments as well would be nice (some sort of Correscating Plasma Array based effect, reduce the value of Anti-Aircraft in exchange for something like the Golden Chariots' ortillery-on-demand effect?) but that's 'something extra'.

Would Loth'tea be helpful in designing the Conquest Dias or is it too far outside her wheelhouse?
 
Also I'm keen on developing a Leeyata Templeship to help with invasions for the attack. We'll want to get the Conquest Dias researched to help with that, and probably something for planetary bombardments as well would be nice (some sort of Correscating Plasma Array based effect, reduce the value of Anti-Aircraft in exchange for something like the Golden Chariots' ortillery-on-demand effect?) but that's 'something extra'.
Plus maybe some sort of barracks + cargo bay combo, a hanger specialised for invasion (and maybe boarding?) support and drop pods.

EDIT: before the Leeyata Templeship we should design a better colonisation ship for colonising Joura as the Abundant Feast is from when we first started making ships and so is more then a little out of date.
 
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  • Enjoy spy stuff and piracy
  • Like mercentile endeavors

Spy stuff is like,

Engaging in "enterprise" is an enjoy. Piracy or trade doesn't really make a difference. As mentioned they approach things someone like the Stryxis would or Ferengi or whatever trader based species in whatever fiction you encounter.

Do shipbuilding and martial arts

More likes sailing, ship building is just something to enable sailing. They aren't better at it, they just need it to do a thing they like to do.

  • Enjoy Praising the Sun and conducting rituals to the Most High
  • Like military endeavors that involve bloody combat and glorious victory

Basically the same thing.

  • Like research and sorcery
  • Do divination, elemental work, bureaucracy and skyships

Bureacracy and skyships are like, Sorcery is Do.

Do medicine, plantations & ranches, engineering

You basically have civil engineering based tasks in all three sections.

I don't think medicine would be on their list at all.

I'm curious as to whether Marela would be helpful in setting up an Academy of Constellations;

No.

One: I have no idea who Marela is.

Merela is both the honored Solar who led the Rebellion, the name of your capital and the name given to a young girl you adopted.


Two: You getting her was NOT so you can apply solar tier charms to realm tasks. Stop trying.

Would Loth'tea be helpful in designing the Conquest Dias or is it too far outside her wheelhouse?


Look, You getting creative with named heroes in omakes is one thing... but your constant attempts to stretch what they can do is really discouraging to me in terms of bothering to come up with more.

A named hero can do the thing I tell you they can, stop trying to give them scope.
 
EDIT: before the Leeyata Templeship we should design a better colonisation ship for colonising Joura as the Abundant Feast is from when we first started making ships and so is more then a little out of date.

Disagree, the current Treel templeship is sufficient to task. We may eventually want to redesign it but we've got a lot of research to go through and other roles that need filling before we get to that point. More likely we'll just not build too many of the current class for now as we're able to more or less keep the Abundant Feast busy colonizing places as-is. (We may experience a delay in expanding from the Tokat sector to Hatra or Atlaaki while the Abundant Feast is out headed to Joura but it's not like we don't have Ophelis B & C to colonize in the interim)

Plus maybe some sort of barracks + cargo bay combo, a hanger specialised for invasion (and maybe boarding?) support and drop pods.

Yeah, I'm assuming we'll have the Barracks + Hanger stuff for landing operations and other such modules, but I'm mostly thinking about the bonus to strategic operations.
 
You could even make more Treel Templeships of the same class. It was designed to be relatively easy to produce with Treels help after all.

Shouldn't be TOO much longer before beign able to colonize two planets at once would be handy.
 
Would it help if I removed my vote for flying Harald?

The abundant feast, base design, is what I consider a solid fleet auxiliary for purposes of troop transport and carrier. It also serves its primary purpose as a colony ship quite nicely of course. We will want a dedicated planetary assault/boarding craft eventually but that can wait.
 
Would it help if I removed my vote for flying Harald?
Why would it help to remove a vote from the only option that has two votes?

I want one to clearly win, if not I will decide and ignore all existing plans to present a single no choice option as a fair accompli and move on.

I say you have about two weeks before you stop having a choice at all. @Slamu hint for someone who has talked a lot but not voted.
 
I think part of the delay is not being sure what precisely each option does. Plus the upkeep question.
While its not like they would hurt, if you don't have a barracks on the heralds, how would they help conquer the Ruinous Devil Strewn Fortress? You still need to bring troops.
Because 5 together can extend the Wondrous Globe/Theion Drive reality stabilization to their escorts and a space battle chunk of space.

But your point is good that we'll need to bring troop transport vessels in addition.

In any case I still don't think upkeep higher than 5 is a good idea. We must make sure we can afford other ships and facilities in addition to solar templeships.

I mean... A Grace Dawns Eternal Ark could be used to grant a ship elite status for a +2 bonus. But that wouldn't need refreshed every combat, you just need to dedicated enough in a turn to repeatedly infuse and use it on multiple ships and than you get the 10 turns or so of elite status.

If it was built in I guess I would assume the ship was always elite?
Each use lasts 1 turn? Meaning we'd have to build like 5+ Arks for each templeship?. But it wouldn't effect other nearby ships in a battle?
IMO the point of built-in Arks is not having to build them separately. Does their inclusion push the DC of the shipbuilding up to 45?

Would anyone object if I removed the drugs from Plan Not Shooting Ourselves In The Foot, and left their eventual someday acquisition to the spy rings? I've realized that the psyker drugs aren't going to be useful to anyone, because both Dragon Kings and Blanks are categorically incapable of psychic anything.
 
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Why would it help to remove a vote from the only option that has two votes?

I want one to clearly win, if not I will decide and ignore all existing plans to present a single no choice option as a fair accompli and move on.

I say you have about two weeks before you stop having a choice at all. @Slamu hint for someone who has talked a lot but not voted.
[X] Swift and deadly Herald mk2

[X] Swift and deadly Herald mk2

[X] Swift and deadly Herald mk2
However there are also 3 votes for Flying Harald, One form F0lkL0re, one from Voidseer, and one from me
Hence why I'm asking if I should remove my vote for Flying Harald


Edit: although a couple of weeks does make it easier for a better plan to be made as well as for others to choose between what is there so I guess my vote for flying Harald will stay a bit longer
 
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You could even make more Treel Templeships of the same class.

Why isn't there a "dun Dun DUN!" dramatic chord response?

Also yeah, it's fairly cheap to build and maintain and with the hangars we can protect it if necessary.

I say you have about two weeks before you stop having a choice at all. @Slamu hint for someone who has talked a lot but not voted.

Fairly sure I have voted?

[X] Swift and deadly Herald mk2
I can live with this one (although I'm amused by the possibility that each of our Heralds Mk. 2 had a plant-growth ark and we just stationed them above agri-worlds when not in use and made bumper crops out of nowhere)
 
The Swift and Deadly Herald plan has a whopping upkeep cost of seven. Six is too much and seven is worse.
 
Would anyone object if I removed the drugs from Plan Not Shooting Ourselves In The Foot, and left their eventual someday acquisition to the spy rings? I've realized that the psyker drugs aren't going to be useful to anyone, because both Dragon Kings and Blanks are categorically incapable of psychic anything.
Instead of just dropping them how about replacing them with Lho Sticks and Recaf instead as those will make for good trade items and are unlikely to cost anything dangerous.
 
Because 5 together can extend the Wondrous Globe/Theion Drive reality stabilization to their escorts and a space battle chunk of space.

So I will be what I hope is clear.

Generally the "battlescope" of a void fleet will not include stuff happening either on a nearby planet or station nor usually ground combat inside.

For a field effect outside a TALISMAN OF VAUL it is completely 100% that the wondrous globe effect or any other field effect reality shaping OUTSIDE the Talisman will have basically no effect inside (unless you are cheating with the mcguffin artifacts which you just got rid of).

So have a reality stabilizing effect OUTSIDE the Talisman will have NO benefit to the soldiers who MUST enter the talisman.

I am stating this now so there can be no surprises or saltiness later.

Each use lasts 1 turn? Meaning we'd have to build like 5+ Arks for each templeship?. But it wouldn't effect other nearby ships in a battle?

I am not sure how you even got this confusion? Like both the statements you made couldn't be mutually true? But it not effecting other nearby ships in battle is true. THAT sounds like something that could have been a choice for one of your two slots, probably using an upkeep.

TLDR;
If you make a Grace of Dawns Eternal ark inherent to the Herald than the Herald will forever more be assumed to be elite.

Thats it, no gaming it to get more out of it, but no being confused that its worse than that either.
 
I would like to avoid unnecessary trades with the Stryxis, we have a) a lot of projects we need to complete (we haven't even done teleportation of all things, or wraithbone), b) the Stryxis aren't particularly trustworthy (hence why I was against Meat)...

For local exploration I'm sure we can let it go unattended; even without being a dedicated combat platform it is a battleship-sized vessel with magitech 'basic weapons' crewed by apex predator demigods. I won't say nothing could harm it, but it's fairly safe and we can send help if we need to.

Also we've got a fair bit of local curiosities to work through right now; I don't know what is up with Melbethe but I low key wonder if it's like a turbo-charged +Raptok AP world given it sounds like it's a single mass of thorns.
Okay, correction that doesn't actually support my point of view, Pillar of Understanding class Ark Draconis doesn't have basic weaponry, it appears to have titanic weapons that are heavier than any anything short of the Twilight (i.e. it can fire 2 strength 3 or 3 strength 2 sutra shots), it is fully a match for an imperial battleship it just lacks a magical material hull. I simply have the view that any battleship should have an escort for the simple reason it is one of the most expensive things we can build, has a massive crew and it is a significant investment to build.

The issue, well the Pillar of Understanding is slow and not very maneuverable. Equally it lacks Perfected Calculation Arrays, my understanding is that the more enemies a ship faces the larger the penalties the ship has. In a one on one battle I expect a Pillar give anything short of a Necron Tombship (maybe a Necron Battlecruiser) a good fight.

So, the issue is less one big ship fights the Pillar more say, a decent sized pirate group see an unescorted battleship and try to swarm it. A battleship+ sized vessel is a either a significant vessel to add to your growing pirate fleet, or a massive stockpile of resources, treasures and who knows what else. And while the Pillar does have a strong crew it does lack a barracks so a boarding isn't the worst choice for trying to take down the Pillar.

A smaller escort might be a better idea than a HR class but at the moment it is our best design for it (everything else is either more expensive, or a bit too limited, maybe a Standard Light Realm Flotilla). Maybe we can design a sloop or chariot to serve as an escort, 4 Sloops or a couple of chariots should mitigate my issues. A more expensive alternative is a Games of Divinity Class, as it has a moon silver hull that means it has the effects of a PCA already so with the Pillar acting as the front line ship the Games of Divinity bringing up the rear providing carrier support it can help prevent it from being swarmed.






One way to treat the MK2's with Sunburst Drive, while it can't be in two places at once, we can move it between theaters fairly easily, i.e. rather than building a ship for every territory they can move between them as needed.

Question would adding a inbuilt Grace of Dawn Eternal Ark, i.e. grant the ship Elite as standard be acceptable as an addition to the plan? @Slamu @Adnate
 
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