Dragon Kings in the 41st Millennia (Exalted/40K Empire)

[Erinys]

Thanks for spotting that, you know I was planning on doing design projects for a worm power component for the ghostwind ship (since the worm power research mentioned it could be used for that) or components for a waystation, anyone have thoughts on starting on one of those ideas this turn?

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You're welcome. I think honestly the best choice is 4 Virtues of Glorious Purpose Hull + Corscating Plasma Beam Array + Rancor-Scenting Harmony Shroud. It can definitely benefit from Crystalweavers. You aren't working on Ghostwind Safety Guide yet, so you can afford to wait on Worm Power Station (although you're right it's a good idea to finish before doing Ghostwind Safety Guide. @Slamu I recommend switching to worms, actually.

Shouldn't using both an exotic stockpile and a divination support slot reduce the DC of Grace Dawns Eternal to 5? I could have sworn that we've done that before with one of Slamu's plans.

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It helps, but your chances of finishing it are still worse than a toss-up. 5 million hearts would give better chances, 10 million would give excellent chances.
Also... your chances of finishing Faradai are already slightly worse than a toss-up. Reducing the AP further means you're unlikely to finish it. I suggest dropping the stockpile manufacturing and mothball some Atelier manses instead. Each manse uses 1 upkeep.

 

[Slamu]

Thinks

OH you are trying to game the elementals.

No. 2 AP minimum is 2 AP minimum.


Better off sending them on expeditions to Therak trying to uncover a Moonsilver mine.

And NO, steam will not help on Therak. It helping on Valki is a special case due to the debris field.

I am getting a little annoyed that I went to the work making a whole tab for alternate paths and its ME having to check it all the time to make sure I didn't mess up when writing it since you guys keep trying to push its boundaries.

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I'm not trying to cause you grief. I've made changes (posted below), though given that Steam helped investigate Jach'uchil and Therak is an entire system I would have thought "alright you guys check where the oxygen works good, we'll investigate this airless rock" was an easy assumption.

One: You need to RUSH both Storm Shields and any component you want to USE Stormshields if you want it done in time to include in a design happening the same turn. Such projects are especially perilous since its ALREADY cutting edge tech you have never built an operational working example of.

So don't expect much bonus.

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RUSH added, components specified. Will we be able to revisit these later once the components in question get some field testing?

Are you just hoping the best turn to build is next turn? Are you actually comfortable waiting 5 turns to do any of these?

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Not hoping it's all next turn, and while I wouldn't prefer to wait 5 turns for each of them I'm sort of using the DC-lowering action to soft-lock their completion or major investment in 1d5 turns.

Doing a policy with specific heroes doesn't add dice or quality, it bias towards what the hero would influence. Which might be something you want?

But you are gonna end up with 3 possible fleets (basically a primarch legion fleet, a set up void fortresses as you campaign fleet, and a "Carriers, just carriers" fleet)

Not saying they might not be interesting fleets but the whole "Day vs Night" thing will be abandoned by the will of the hero units biasing the project. And keep in mind that one is a ground general, one is a pilot, and one is a human girl who is hoping solar charms make up for massive experience gap.

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Marela was meant to attend as a junior officer being groomed for higher position. Less 'what are your thoughts on fleet development' and more 'serve coffee and watch what your elders consider important in discussions of doctrine and organization'. Sort of like how we're not expecting her to materially add to the 'spread martial arts' projects but benefit from them as a student.

The main thing I'm still unsure of is whether the Ghostwind counts as "Underworld" enough for Ghostwalkers to help there. And whether adamant counts as crystal or glass. Well, also whether Steam is useful in the Underworld (it has "air" so no?) for orbital work)

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Ghostwalkers also apply to psychic phenomena and blanks, so I've got them lightly penciled in as 'weird warp stuff investigators' alongside the Crystalweavers ("resistant to weird warp stuff" vs "sensitive to weird warp stuff") and once we get human populations will probably be important for making sure we find all/most/enough of the psychically sensitive in the human population (remember, CCI means more stable psykers, which is one of the two things most races care about with regards to psykers!).

Probably won't be using them for that much any time soon given how much Underworld stuff we've got going on. Even ignoring diplomacy, spying and trade we've got the Golden Throne stuff like training Sheut and making that warp tunnel connecting our Golden Throne to the one on Terra. In the long run, when we get a second Ghostwalker AP I hope to use one of them to deal with basic Underworld stuff and the other to handle things like witch-hunting or warp phenomena investigations like 'fake soulsteel production (now with 10% fewer souls of the damned!)'.

@Slamu your plan doesn't distinguish Breed AP from General AP. Are we allowed to budget that way?
I would add "Evocatorium" to "Impossible Design" in the astrology, so it's clear.
And I'd mention the upgrades being done along with the All Mountain Fane (Training Grounds) and Brass Redoubt (Automata Foundry + Greater Automatorium) and planet (Ophelis).
You can decrease the Storm Shields by 1 AP and still have an chance to finish them while Rushing (but assuming only +20% DC), which would free up an AP for Han-Tha's temple.
Are you willing to turn the raid into support for Continual Grace instead?

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This is how I've been budgeting so far and it doesn't seem to be an issue. When I'm planning things out I tend to put the Breed AP next to the breed ("Mosok 19" for instance) and when planning out projects I work with Breed AP first and move onto General AP after that's run out (noting how much Gen. AP I've used with a number in brackets at the end of Breed budgets so it looks like:
Mosok 19
- X 10
- Y 8
- Z 7
[6]

though I try to clean it up when posting here so as to make it more readable.

I've added Evocatorium to the astrology action, and while I'm considering changing the raid to something else I don't think Continual Grace is the way to go right now, given that the DC 30 gets reduced by 15 from the Exotics stockpile and (effectively) -5 from Bribing Spirits for an effective DC of 10. We need 6 successes with 7 AP on a DC of 10, we could add the astrology support (and if we were rolling the 20+ AP normally I would as it'd statistically save us more than 1 AP) but here I think we're better off using it on something else.

I've dropped Han-tha's temple to fish for stuff in Therak, as I don't want to drop AP in Component research with RUSH tags.

Shimmering Water Enhancement Suit is listed in Raptok instead of Mosok

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I believe that's allowed as (thanks to Abraxus) a lot of research and reverse-engineering projects are also piety projects.

[x] Plan Holy Ship v. 4.2
Anklok
- [x] Bribing spirits to do their job: 1 AP
- [x] Faradai, Artificer of Most Efficacious Prostheses: 11 AP + bone
- [x] Shining Flower [Continual Grace]: 1 AP + 25m Dragon Kings + corpse + ghost
- [x] Continual Grace [30m] 7 AP + exotic
- [x] Lion Dogs to guard Jupiter Manse: auto
- [x] Wyld Fighting Force: 2 AP + ecstatic + barracks + atelier x2 + spark
- [x] Solar Temple redesign: 2 AP
- [x] More Angels are needed (sub-sector scale): 3 AP

No big surprises here, though I want to specify the sparks are just here to help facilitate the training rather than sending them off to die in a war before we can replace them.

Mosok
- [x] Solar Temple Redesign 2 AP + Loth'ea
- [x] Shimmering Water Enhancement 3 AP + Jadite
- [x] Widen Spy Ring [Stryxis]: 4 AP + blood + FC + Engineer + steam
- [x] Coral Reef [Tokat + 5 manse + all] 5 AP + Treel
- [x] Encourage Martial Arts: 6 AP + dojo + smoke
- [x] Encourage Development: 3 AP + dojo + Marela
- [x] Trade goods: Atelier x1

Added Hotbloods to spy ring project under the assumption that smuggling stuff will be helpful, and put heroes towards the Templeship redesign and magical kung-fu lessons. (Also, I wonder how helpful Marela would be with spreading Martial Arts; even ignoring something like Tiger Warrior Training Method to churn out elite formations fast, Solars have access to fairly potent social charms even at low investment (Taboo-Inflcting Diatribe is Socialze 3, Essence 2 and has no prerequisite charms, for instance). I know 'social matters' aren't her concern (Sail/War spec) but it seems odd that she'd have no social charms, even something like an Excellency.) Loth'ea added to redesign in hopes of getting some sort of internal security bonus.

Pterok
- [x] Astrological Question: Faradai support auto
- [x] Astrological Question: Kaului Diplomacy 25y plan auto
- [x] Astrological Question: Heroic Ghosts 25y plan 1 AP
- [x] Astrological Question: Impossible Design Evocatorium 25y plan 1 AP
- [x] Astrological Question: Crystal Anchor 25y plan 1 AP
- [x] Harmonious Lore Understanding #1 [Ophelis]
-- [x] [base + Ship Design Studio + Adventurer's forum] 6 AP
- [x] Spell research: Azure Chariot 1 AP + Beryl + Arc
- [x] Elemental Support: 10 AP
- [x] Ghostwind Safety Guide: 2 AP
- [x] Cleanse Therak: 6 AP + oil (admin) + ships + thaumaturgy workshop
- [x] Spirit Gathering Thousand Forge: 12 AP + golem
- [x] Void Vessel Design (Solar Templeship redesign): 2 AP + Metal
- [x] Logistic Stockpile atelier x1
- [x] Standard Stockpile: atelier x2

Changed spell research back to the Azure Chariot to take advantage of Cerulean Arc, changed raid to diplomacy in deference to the fact that while conquest is on the table, Orks continue to exist. I'm open to changing that specific one to something like 'Beast of Immaculate Seeds' or 'Elemental Support' by the way.

Raptok
- [x] Study [Day & Night Fleets] Policy: 1 AP
- [x] Call Chur Contacts (King Anzir): Slicktongue
- [x] Storm Shield [RUSH]: 4 AP
- [x] Design Component [Four Virtues Hull + Storm Shield] [RUSH]: 3 AP
- [x] Design Component [Storm shields + Theion drive + Solar temple][RUSH]: 3 AP
- [x] Design Component [Four Virtues Hull + Coruscating Plasma Beam Array + Rancor-Scenting Shroud]: 2 AP + Crystal
- [x] Mineral Survey Equipment: 1 AP
- [x] Harmonious Lore Understanding Manse #1 [Ophelis]: 6 AP
- [x] All mountain Fane [Ophelis][Training Grounds]: 3 AP
- [x] Brass Redoubt [Ophelis][Greater Automatorium + Automata Foundry]: 2 AP
- [x] Temple of Sakti [Ophelis]: 2 AP
- [x] Transalchemical Engineer x2: 4 AP + FC x2
- [x] Tree Spires 1 AP
- [x] Mount Up Boys 1 + stable
- [x] Grox Ranch [Ophelis] stable
- [x] Colony Stockpile Atelier x1

Removed heroes from policy study, added RUSH to Storm Shield projects, clarified some manse projects.

- [x] Colonize Valki [30m]: 3 AP + stockpiles + Feast
- [x] Resource Expedition [Therak]: 2 AP + skiffs

Hotbloods replaced with regular AP for Therak expedition.

 

[StarJaunter]

You need to add something for your trade vote, doesn't have to be backed into the plan but you probably want another section of your post mentioning that stuff so your vote their gets counted.

RUSH added, components specified. Will we be able to revisit these later once the components in question get some field testing?

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You can refine the components sure, probably will not be able to update your ship considering it such a highly over engineered design and worst of all, Geomantic. Its not like an Autochthonian ship where you can just switch components willy and or nilly.


- [x] Design Component [Four Virtues Hull + Storm Shield] [RUSH]: 3 AP
- [x] Design Component [Four Virtues Hull + Coruscating Plasma Beam Array + Rancor-Scenting Shroud]: 2 AP + Crystal
What Kind of traits are we looking for? Discounts or some kind of better against creatures of darkness effect? Something else?

If you are going to include the enhance ox body, the golden fortress? My reccommendation is to tie the shield to that. That way you can in theory add it to other ship types and they can synergize as optimizing the layout of the armor to cooperate with the Storm Shield. Cost savings or with a really good roll volume savings. This can work with the four virtues hull but than only that hull wheras tying it to the Gold Fortress makes it at least a little flexible.

- [x] Design Component [Storm shields + Theion drive + Solar temple][RUSH]: 3 AP
I would point out this would be incompatible with both the Storm shield component you are designing in the other component project action AND with the Four Virtue Hull since you just say solar templeship.

You can try to tie the theion drive to the storm shields project but since its being done at the same time and the cutting edge nature of the tech means minimal upgrade its more than probably not a good idea. I would say just tie it to the Four Virtues hull, which would make the ship scream about the Glory of the Most High instead of saying "the ship is here" With a really good roll there may be a memetic effect where if someone studies the signature long enough they might find themselves converted to worship of the Unconquered Sun, although I wouldn't force that on you if you don't want it.

That or figure out some other component you want to mess with, like upgrade the basic sensors of the Four Virtues hull to better detect the unholy. Improved ability to conduct boarding actions maybe? lots of stuff you can tinker with, it isn't JUST trying to massage synergies between two components.

 

[F0lkL0re]

I'm going to drop a design action to add an AP to Faradai, Grace Dawns Eternal and the Storm Shields and make the remaining design action be for the Gold Fortress/Storm shields combo.

 

[StarJaunter]

Did I miss any components? I swear their was a sutra battery in a solar temple thing... did I imagine that or lose track of it?

 

[F0lkL0re]

Did I miss any components? I swear their was a sutra battery in a solar temple thing... did I imagine that or lose track of it?

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Yes it's on turn 58

--[X] Design [Sutra Batteries + Solar Temple] AP Needed: 1 AP. DC: varies but usually low. Success Needed. 3. 3 General AP
DC: 15 > 60, 70, 76

The breakthrough in this design arises from working with Lumina. Several Lumina have powerful charms that amount to Artillery or mass scale archery attacks. We have modified some sutra batteries to channel the energies of these charms to effective fire again immediately. This of course requires having the pacts needed to summon these Lumina into place so there is a limit on how often they can be used but it would allow the initial stages of a battle to tilt heavily in our favor as we can practically shoot twice for the first stages of the battle.

Reward: Sigh of the Votive Offering. A modification of the Sutra Battery that can only be installed aboard vessels with Solar Temples. May spend a Lumina Pact to gain an extra attack against enemies who count as Creatures of Darkness. This still costs momentum as a normal attack would, but if you have extra you can spend the pact and momentum and attack again. You may use up to five lumina pacts in this way per battle, you need enough time after this to allow those Lumina to rest and be re-pacted to use this effect again.

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[Slamu]

- [x] Design Component [Four Virtues Hull + Storm Shield] [RUSH]: 3 AP
- [x] Design Component [Four Virtues Hull + Coruscating Plasma Beam Array + Rancor-Scenting Shroud]: 2 AP + Crystal
What Kind of traits are we looking for? Discounts or some kind of better against creatures of darkness effect? Something else?

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Orichalcum effect extends to shields (ignore first damage level)
CPBA takes up less space for the protection offered (ideally 'no space used/can free up half space, provides Guardian point defence module' effect. More likely 'no additional space but acts as improved point defense clusters')

If you are going to include the enhance ox body, the golden fortress? My reccommendation is to tie the shield to that. That way you can in theory add it to other ship types and they can synergize as optimizing the layout of the armor to cooperate with the Storm Shield. Cost savings or with a really good roll volume savings. This can work with the four virtues hull but than only that hull wheras tying it to the Gold Fortress makes it at least a little flexible.

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I'll probably do that then.

You can try to tie the theion drive to the storm shields project but since its being done at the same time and the cutting edge nature of the tech means minimal upgrade its more than probably not a good idea. I would say just tie it to the Four Virtues hull, which would make the ship scream about the Glory of the Most High instead of saying "the ship is here" With a really good roll there may be a memetic effect where if someone studies the signature long enough they might find themselves converted to worship of the Unconquered Sun, although I wouldn't force that on you if you don't want it.

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I like the potential memetic angle.

Updated plan will take a day or two, I'm travelling and not sure when I'll have the bandwidth to respond.

 

[Erinys]

I don't think Continual Grace is the way to go right now

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Oh I miscounted how many successes it needs. Only 21, not 23.

Here are the calculated # of AP that would make different actions a toss-up, meaning they would succeed with exactly average rolls (including bribed gods for effective -5 DC to all). That still isn't really great odds but I can't calculate the odds themselves, only the # of AP needed on average. Of course you would round up to a whole # of AP which improves odds by <1 sux.

Faradai, w/ divination, DC 30: 11.43 AP
Continual Grace 30m w/ exotic and 25m hearts, DC 10: 6.67 AP
Grace Dawns Eternal 20m w/ divination and exotic: 19.15 AP at DC 6 (18.18 AP at DC 1 but I don't think it can drop that low)
Rushed Storm Shields: 3 AP at up to DC 66
Rushed Boarding Field: 6.15 AP at DC 35, 6.67 AP at DC 40, 7.27 AP at DC 45
Rushed Design Component: 4.29 AP at DC 30, 5 AP at DC 40, 5.45 AP at DC 45
Spirit Gathering Thousand Forge, DC 20: 13.75 AP
Votann Trade Preparation, DC 33: 2 AP
Colonize Therak 30m, Abundant Feast, 3 [more] packages, DC 5: 6.32 AP
Colonize Valki 30m, Abundant Feast, 3 packages, DC 5: 3 AP
Cleanse Therak, thaumaturgy+plantation+ship, DC 15: 9.8 AP without elementals, but I can't recall how to get the base 20 DC. Thaumaturgy triples each elemental success. It's best to use a minotaur transport or Abundant Feast.

Can we get up to 1/2 successes from elementals on an elemental manse? I can't recall.
All Mountain Fane+Training Grounds, DC 20: 3.75 AP no elementals (or 3 AP + 0.31 elemental AP)
Brass Redoubt w/ the 2 upgrades, DC 35: 7.69 AP no elementals (or 3 AP + 1.96 elemental AP)
Coral Reef w/ all upgrades, DC 20: 53.75 AP no elementals (or 16 AP + 15.73 elemental AP)
HLU Manse w/ the 2 upgrades, DC 20: 27.5 AP no elementals (or 9 AP + 7.71 elemental AP)

 

[Slamu]

@F0lkL0re Assuming my plan wins and we're able to knock out the Ship Design Bureau construction, do you have ship and/or component design priorities? I'm thinking of working on components for the Celestial Envoy (diplomat ship, requires diplomatic chambers & barracks + hangar component) and the Leeyata templeship (Large Hangar + Large Barracks component + Conquest Dias) for 2 or 3 turns. I'd also like to work on getting Coruscating Plasma Weapons (just so even our unarmed ships can go armed, it feels like a waste to have an Adamant hulled ship without at least some direct fire capability) and hopefully after 2 or 3 turns we'll have knocked out the Shimmering Water Enhancement Suit and discovered a moonsilver deposit and thus can put together some improvements for stealth ship stuff. What I've got in mind so far are
- Night Drive + Shimmering Water suit ("easily overlooked presence + don't mind me just passing through" for improved stealth effect/higher DC to notice/however it pans out
- Iron Wolf's Den ('spy barracks', name based on Night Caste moniker. Intended as a component to help explain a ship is a spy ship. Undecided as to whether 'wolf's den' or 'wolves den' works better here)
- Moonsilver hull + Night Drive (I'm guessing this'd be based on the PCA effect, letting a ship effectively reduce the magnitude of potential watchers the ship is attempting to slip by)
Tangentially related, while I don't expect to start building one any time in the next ~5 to 10 turns, it looks like we're fairly close on being able to design an Observatory ship. I don't mind putting the designers towards working on a 'Starmetal hull + Observatory' synergy component and can imagine adding stuff like PCA and/or SRA to better detect and track things but other than 'and get some lances researched to add to it in case it needs to fight for real' I'm not sure what I'd want on that ship. Something meant for a ways out.

More immediately I'd like to put together an Adamant scout ship (sloop sized probably, built in pairs) to help us snoop around the neighborhood and help us get started exploring the rest of Ophelis' neighborhood (though I'm trying to remember if we should research Godspeed Motivators for that or something else)

Can we get up to 1/2 successes from elementals on an elemental manse? I can't recall.

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I believe that is the case, yes. It's one of the things I'm planning on for some of the tougher nuts to crack (such as the HLU + Hidden Empyrean on Ophelis). I'm less certain about temple-building, but am content to throw millions of Anklok laborers at the problem instead of elementals for now.

Incidentally I'd like to propose the creation of a Sakti ark for building manses be considered. Most 'build basic manse' options are low DC and require somewhere between 6 and 12 sux but with a Sakti templeship above the world and dropping a mass manse-capping project in a day (I'm guessing that's a 25 hour day instead of 'whatever is local'?) that ark gets recharged for 1 AP and (I presume?) Sakti's temple provides administrative benefits to building major manses on-site. Ark construction is AP 2, DC 50, 3 sux so just one iteration of 'ark building + charging, then discharging' pays for the ark (and we'd need to build a Sakti templeship but I can't expect it to be too AP-intensive given the god involved) so if we take the entire rest of the subsector's worth of manse construction to break even on that point I'd be surprised.


[x] Plan Holy Ship v. 4.3
Anklok
- [x] Bribing spirits to do their job: 1 AP
- [x] Faradai, Artificer of Most Efficacious Prostheses: 11 AP + bone
- [x] Shining Flower [Continual Grace]: 1 AP + 25m Dragon Kings + corpse
- [x] Continual Grace [30m] 7 AP + exotic
- [x] Lion Dogs to guard Jupiter Manse: auto
- [x] Wyld Fighting Force: 2 AP + ecstatic + barracks + atelier x2 + spark
- [x] Solar Temple redesign: 2 AP
- [x] More Angels are needed (sub-sector scale): 3 AP

I'm considering moving More Angels are Needed to Teteocon Expansion, as we'd likely complete that this turn and be able to start developing things like orchards and vinyards later.

Mosok
- [x] Solar Temple Redesign 2 AP + Loth'ea
- [x] Shimmering Water Enhancement 3 AP + Jadite
- [x] Widen Spy Ring [Stryxis]: 4 AP + blood + FC + Engineer + steam
- [x] Coral Reef [Tokat + 5 manse + all] 5 AP + Treel
- [x] Encourage Martial Arts: 6 AP + dojo + smoke + Slicktongues
- [x] Encourage Development: 3 AP + dojo + Marela
- [x] Trade goods: Atelier x1

No changes.

Pterok
- [x] Astrological Question: Faradai support auto
- [x] Astrological Question: Kaului Diplomacy 25y plan auto
- [x] Astrological Question: Heroic Ghosts 25y plan 1 AP
- [x] Astrological Question: Impossible Design Evocatorium 25y plan 1 AP
- [x] Astrological Question: Crystal Anchor 25y plan 1 AP
- [x] Harmonious Lore Understanding #1 [Ophelis]
-- [x] [base + Ship Design Studio + Adventurer's forum] 6 AP
- [x] Spell research: Azure Chariot 1 AP + Beryl + Arc
- [x] Elemental Support: 10 AP
- [x] Ghostwind Safety Guide: 2 AP
- [x] Cleanse Therak: 6 AP + oil (admin) + ships + thaumaturgy workshop
- [x] Spirit Gathering Thousand Forge: 12 AP + golem
- [x] Void Vessel Design (Solar Templeship redesign): 2 AP + Metal
- [x] Logistic Stockpile atelier x1
- [x] Standard Stockpile: atelier x2

No changes.

Raptok
- [x] Study [Day & Night Fleets] Policy: 1 AP
- [x] Call Chur Contacts (King Anzir): Ghostwalkers
- [x] Storm Shield [RUSH]: 4 AP
- [x] Design Component [Golden Fortress Body + Storm Shield] [RUSH]: 3 AP
- [x] Design Component [Theion drive + Four Virtues Hull][RUSH]: 3 AP
- [x] Design Component [Four Virtues Hull + Coruscating Plasma Beam Array + Rancor-Scenting Shroud] [RUSH]: 2 AP + Crystal
- [x] Mineral Survey Equipment: 1 AP
- [x] Harmonious Lore Understanding Manse #1 [Ophelis]: 6 AP
- [x] All mountain Fane [Ophelis][Training Grounds]: 3 AP
- [x] Brass Redoubt [Ophelis][Greater Automatorium + Automata Foundry]: 2 AP
- [x] Temple of Sakti [Ophelis]: 2 AP
- [x] Temple of Han-tha [Ophelis] 2 AP
- [x] Transalchemical Engineer x2: 4 AP + FC x2
- [x] Tree Spires 1 AP
- [x] Mount Up Boys 1 + stable
- [x] Grox Ranch [Ophelis] stable
- [x] Colony Stockpile Atelier x1

Added [RUSH] to the third component, changed Orichalcum Hull to GOlden Fortress Body for first one and clarified Theion Drive + Solar Templeship for second.
Edit: Changed 'Solar Templeship' to 'Four Virtues Hull' in component design
Edit2 (Son of Edit): Added Han-tha temple based on Corpse-Eater AP gained from sacrifices this turn. It feels thematic to build a temple to the god with the AP gained from his actions. (I also wanted to do one for Shining Flower but there's only so much AP going around right now). The Slicktongues were replaced with Ghostwalkers when talking to the Chur so the Slicktongues can be moved to help with Martial Arts promotion.
Edit3 (Revenge of Edit): deleted Ghostwalkers listed on the Shining Flower action (thank you for pointing that out @Erinys)

- [x] Colonize Valki [30m]: 3 AP + stockpiles + Feast
- [x] Resource Expedition [Therak]: 2 AP + skiffs

No changes.

I think that fits with StarJaunter's feedback, if anyone has anything they'd like me to change now's the time to say so.

[x] Trade Plan I Woodn't Do That
-[x] Meat: Trade one million Dragon Kings away as slaves to the Stryxis every turn. In return they will provide a bounty of valuable materials… just don't ask where theygot them from. Lose one million Dragon Kings every turn, gain 10 Exotic Stockpiles every turn.

-[x] Tools: Honored Bipeds that you are, you are quite strong and clever. We can trade your artifice for entertainments that delight, yes? Yes. Trade the output of an Atelier Manse for the Arena Beasts trade good and gain 1 AP in each Breed. Atelier output will mostly be weapons, probably sold to pirates and slavers.

-[x] Trinkets: We have traveled far and wide and have interest in Trinkets, yes. Perhaps we can trade trinket for Trinket, yes Honored Biped? You gain a Gatcha list of tech items, everyone you choose grants the Stryxis an equivalent. Weapons for weapons, utility gear for utility, entertainment for entertainment.
--[x] Militia weapons
--[x] Celstial Honey/Mead samples
--[x] Ironwood samples
--[x] Medicine samples
--[x] Entertainment (same stuff we traded to Eldar and Lockhart)
--[x] Lizard Tail Regrowth Sphere + glow worms to keep it running
--[x] Grox
--[x] splinter rifles
--[x] Promethium sample
--[x] Ork-B-Gon fungicide sample


-[x] Secrets: Loathsome Eldar freaks are the bane of the galaxy. If you can provide some dread secret of theirs we will whisper of secrets profane to less honorable Biped ears then yours. Tell the Stryxis [insert fact here] about the Eldar and the Stryxis will provide an equally valuable fact. Keep in mind the value is in the eyes of the enemies of the Eldar, not your eyes or the Eldar's perception of value.
--[x] Eldar actions in Gothic War (public version)
--[x] Eldar can see the future (imply we are amazed and superstitious about this, blowing it out of proportion)
--[x] Eldar lost their gods somewhere (don't mention that we keep finding them)

-[x] Lies: Honored Bipeds, your are too glorious and powerful with many friends. Surely such powerful bipeds as you may stride where though wilt. Such as these places. Provide information on Tokat holdings that is riddled with deception and traps for any that tries to follow it and the Stryxis will gleefully share how to enter an Ork trap.

-[x] Hatred: Rumors of the Hated Eldari roaming these stars have reached our profane ears. Oh Honored Bipeds surely you can do something about this? For every Eldar vessel you can provide proof you destroyed they will let you target a world in the Koronus Expanse and subject it to intense raids for a turn when you ask. They care not if its Drukhari, Corsair, or Craftworlder.

Meat: I'm using this as an opportunity to spread Mosok spies everywhere as much as get Exotic stockpiles. Hopefully as our spy network within the Stryxis grows in number and position we can reconnect with other spy networks and get a well-developed espionage network within the Expanse.

Tools: Spend 1 AP maintaining a manse that gives us 4 AP in Breed dice. That's pretty much the kind of return we want on something like this, and if it makes the neighborhood a bit dangerous, c'est la vie.

Trinkets: Everyone loves the gacha rolls, and I'm happy to add more to the list here if anyone can think of more.

Secrets: I'm not sure we know many Eldar secrets to share, much less ones we'd like to pass on to someone like the Stryxis. That said I think putting the ones listed here out in the wild won't hurt anyone (that we mind seeing hurt).

Lies: ...was there a reason not to go through with this?

Hatred: I'm approaching this from a "maybe we get rewarded bullying Drukhari" angle. All else fails it's a potential information channel to cultivate.

Any objections to what I have listed for the trade items?

 

[StarJaunter]

Can we get up to 1/2 successes from elementals on an elemental manse? I can't recall.

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That is the default. Some I might be more or less lenient. Like the research lab one is probably less elemental friendly while the coral one is probably more friendly to elementals

But half is generally a safe assumption

More immediately I'd like to put together an Adamant scout ship (sloop sized probably, built in pairs) to help us snoop around the neighborhood and help us get started exploring the rest of Ophelis' neighborhood (though I'm trying to remember if we should research Godspeed Motivators for that or something else)

Click to shrink...

Er… you have almost this exact concept already designed except as a pennant. With using the extra size to have some capacity to respond to an emergency instead of running away

Unless you want max stealth but you didn't mention stealth in your description

 

[F0lkL0re]

Assuming my plan wins and we're able to knock out the Ship Design Bureau construction, do you have ship and/or component design priorities?

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Worm-power for the ghost wind exploration and components for the waystation.

 

[Erinys]

Assuming my plan wins and we're able to knock out the Ship Design Bureau construction, do you have ship and/or component design priorities?

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Wel, we need to start building (conquering, settling, etc.) the waystation to Joura no later than Turn 67. So we need a decent ship for that (and components) designed and built by Turn 66. While still having at least one warship to leave in Tokat sector. I prefer the average planet, not Tanith and definitely not the barren red dwarf system.

We need to start Ghostwind Safety Guide no later than Turn 65, so the Worm Power Station should be done by Turn 64 to avoid having to Rush the new tech.

Each of those projects needs a separate Wondrous Globe of Precious Stability, plus we need +4 for the Caches quest, so we'll need to build 4-5 of those. That in turn requires more moonsilver and soulsteel sooner rather than later. So we should focus on resource expeditions to Therak instead of Valki, and Soulsteel Trade Penetration. (Potentially, the waystation work could be done with Void Abaci or Wayfinders instead of a Globe.)

Design Component [Theion drive + Solar templeship][RUSH]: 3 AP

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Please reword this to [Theion Drive + Four Virtue Hull]
Because:

- [x] Design Component [Storm shields + Theion drive + Solar temple][RUSH]: 3 AP
I would point out this would be incompatible with both the Storm shield component you are designing in the other component project action AND with the Four Virtue Hull since you just say solar templeship.

You can try to tie the theion drive to the storm shields project but since its being done at the same time and the cutting edge nature of the tech means minimal upgrade its more than probably not a good idea. I would say just tie it to the Four Virtues hull, which would make the ship scream about the Glory of the Most High instead of saying "the ship is here" With a really good roll there may be a memetic effect where if someone studies the signature long enough they might find themselves converted to worship of the Unconquered Sun,

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Meat: I'm using this as an opportunity to spread Mosok spies everywhere as much as get Exotic stockpiles.

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Please specify that this will be one turn only, not every turn from now on.

Secrets: I'm not sure we know many Eldar secrets to share, much less ones we'd like to pass on to someone like the Stryxis.

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Please specify we will not mention them gaining a Blackstone Fortress.

 

[Slamu]

Er… you have almost this exact concept already designed except as a pennant. With using the extra size to have some capacity to respond to an emergency instead of running away

Unless you want max stealth but you didn't mention stealth in your description

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...I knew this. Thank you for reminding me. (And it wasn't really 'max stealth' so much as 'hey if you have night drive why not use them')

Please specify that this will be one turn only, not every turn from now on.

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I think that it's a "until we cancel that part of the agreement" thing, in which case my escape clause is 'get Eldar Exotic goods trade up to replace Stryxis input', ie "get Eldar medicine trade stood up with Beast of Immaculate Seeds + follow-up trade deal".
A reminder that we also get 2 auto-sux on research for 40k stuff (up to DC 65) from Eldar loremasters if we get the Cores for Eldar completed, turn an Atelier and 5 manses over to recharge duty and get a small project announcing 'here are your million plus willpower-boosting cores (come & get 'em!)'. 4 Exotic stockpiles, a Slicktongue admin application and at least one Factory Cathedral should get us on track for getting that done reasonably swiftly, and able to help with Important Work like Ghostwind and whatever's going on with noctolith growth. (I don't think that'd work for the Ophelis Hidden Empyerean thing but imagine if instead of spending all that effort building the obscure research manse we just asked some Eldar over lunch "so what's with the wyld flowing around that planet you gave us?' and waited until the surprised choking got to a minimum.

Please specify we will not mention them gaining a Blackstone Fortress.

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"They stole a blackstone fortress" isn't a secret in the region (the Imperials were quite upset about it), and is one of the big ticket items I'm hoping to trade for juicy secrets. Could you explain why we'd want to hold that back?

We need to start Ghostwind Safety Guide no later than Turn 65, so the Worm Power Station should be done by Turn 64 to avoid having to Rush the new tech.

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...should I move that AP to something else then until the Worm Power Station comes online? I didn't remember needing Worm Power to progress on that.

Wel, we need to start building (conquering, settling, etc.) the waystation to Joura no later than Turn 67. So we need a decent ship for that (and components) designed and built by Turn 66. While still having at least one warship to leave in Tokat sector. I prefer the average planet, not Tanith and definitely not the barren red dwarf system.

Click to shrink...

I think the bare minimum is to have the Abundant Feast, which we have, and the colonists which...we can probably get, as well as several Colony Stockpiles (which we have or could get reasonably easily). Additional assistance in the form of escorts, support and logistics are another thing.

 

[Erinys]

See, I don't believe the Aeldari have advertized to everyone in the galaxy that they got a Blackstone Fortress. I can't believe that the Empire advertises details about their military losses to xeno enemies, either. Plus, if the Stryxis already know then it isn't a valuable secret. "Secrets" is explicitly about giving Stryxis new information that they CAN use to hurt the Craftworlders. Trying to game this without hurting them will probably be smacked down by the QM. Craftworlds are vastly more valuable as allies so this should be off the table. That option is there to tempt us to betray our potential allies, not because there's some way to ally with both sides in their fight.

I strongly do not want to send more than 1 million Dragon Kings as slaves. Other posters have pointed out Stryxis have fleshcrafting and sell slaves to other aliens. Nobody has indicated that they don't make deals with Chaos. I especially don't want to keep draining our population into slavery indefinitely "until we get around to stopping it sometime next century". We are nowhere close to replacing that with Ulthwe trade. Sending spies was the only possible justification, and you're setting up a Spy Ring instead anyway.

I don't understand the situation with Worm Power Plants. We're told that we can't do anything in the Ghostwind without them, period. But building one isn't even an option.

 

[Slamu]

So, assuming some variant of the Holy Ship plan wins, here's what I'm thinking for next turn (plan obviously in a rough state at the moment, trying to rough out a general set of priorities);

Proto-plan for turn 61 (definitely premature)
Gen AP 54
Anklok 17
- Bribe Spirits 1
- Wyld Fighters 2 + pyre + barracks + atelier x2 + spark
- Continual Grace 26 + exotic
- Infuse ark 1
[13]

Keep on as we began, working on Wyld Fighting Force and getting Continual Grace, er continuing. If that's on cooldown (it might be, I'm not sure) then take half of that and put it towards Wyld Fighters training and the rest of it towards...something else, not sure yet. (Low key thinking start on Ophelis Temple-cities, 9 Anklok + 9 Raptok + astrology support and start getting things like a new factory cathedral and super-Exotic stockpile).

Mosok 21
- Infiltration Camp + Simulator 4
- Coral Reef 5 + Treel + Marela
- Forge of Great Maker ship 4 + FC x2 + Atelier x2 + Exotic x3
- Golden Scale x2 3 + Exotic x2 + Atlier x2 + FC + Engineer
- Shimmering Water suit 4 + jadite
- Encourage Development 5 + dojo + oil
- Encourage Martial Arts 5 + dojo + smoke
[10]

Keep working on the coral reef project, start (and with Elemental support perhaps finish?) the Infiltration Camp manse to get the -10 DC to infiltration actions in advance of using spy ships to start spying on people. Work on Martial Arts stuff, work on (maybe complete?) Shimmering Water suit, and punch out both the Forge of the Great Maker factoryship (and get it eating up stray asteroids to fill out its holds) and Golden Scale response ships for both scouting duty and as part of the escort for the Joura expedition. This also makes 6 Exotic stockpiles used in pursuit of this plan, mostly in shipbuilding (and thus encourages 'get a lot of exotics coming in' as a priority).

Pterok 17
Q1 Hearth of World blood 25y auto
Q2 God of Tocha 25y plan auto
Q3 Continual Grace support 1
Q4 Ordinatus Gran Sol 25y plan 1
Q5 Major Geomantic Observatories [Khyral] 50y plan 1
- design Sakti templeship 1+bureau
- Elemental Support 10
- Air Auxilia 2
- Coruscating Plasma Weapons 3 + crystal
- Elemental Stockpile x2 4
- Spell: Unconquered Self 1 + Beryl
- Thaumaturgy Training 7 + thaumaturgy
[14]

Work on Coruscating Plasma weapons, keeps the Air Auxilia from losing a hitch and begins work on Elemental Stockpiles for Joura. Might knock out the Thaumaturgy Training as well. Other than Sakti templeship, significant elemental support and 'some kind of spell research (so we keep Beryl gainfully employed)' I'm not too hard-set on any specific item here, though the astrology options obviously hint at future plans. First off 'Hearth of the World Blood' is an industrial manse that is also a Breed Manse and pursuing that gives us another atelier, Anklok AP, defensive position on Ophelis and improves our Orichalcum output. All of these are good things, but the DC is in the 35 to 40 range for most items so seeing when we might knock that down saves us a fair bit of effort. Likewise the Major Geomantic Observatories (spending a little more time on it hopefully to get a better savings and also buy time to do things like build up Khyral's CCI, build manses, build a Beast of Promethium and a bunch of Plasma Manses there. Some of these can be done with planning and others concurrently, but I'm still hoping for 'later' rather than 'sooner'). God of Tocha is a reminder to keep filling out the pantheon (Sakti has been a big help), and the Gransol Terminus Ordinatus seems like it'd be useful with the distant colonization project (especially 'send in more troops, they're getting slaughtered in there'). No single one of these is sacrosanct, but meant more to point towards my priorities. Also of note is the Sakti templeship intended to help ark-bomb basic manses on places until it's time to go.

Raptok 23
- Policy study: Ork Raids 1
- Policy study: Slave sacrifice 1 + blood + corpse
- Call Chur ghost
- Alchemical Design [Medic] 2 + bone + golem + metal
- Design [Worm Power] component 3
- Design [Barracks + Hangar] component 1 + Arc
- Sakti manse building ark x2 3
- Han-tha Temple [Ophelis] 2
- Torothal Temple [Ophelis] 2
- Fortress Manse #1 [Ophelis]
-- [Base + Inner Works + Outer Works + Muster Field] 2 + Loth'ea
- Teteocon Expansion 3
- Verdant Respite Pavilion [Ophelis]
-- [Base + Emergency + Long Term + Treatment] 6
- Tree Spires 1
- Razor-Beaks 1 + Stable
- Grox Ranch [Ophelis] Stable
[12]

I actually cut a lot of temple construction from this plan. This is meant mostly to do basic infrastructure work (policy studies, temple construction, continue some policies that seem uncontroversial) and begin some that seem desired in the near future (Worm Power component, start on basic Barracks + Hangar component to keep Arc gainfully occupied and work on one of the prerequisite components for the Celestial Envoy). Of note is starting Fortress Manses on Ophelis, as that seemed a productive use of Loth'ea's time (though I would still like StarJaunter's okay before putting this in a plan). If we've completed Mount Up Boys, then it's time to move onto Razor-Beaks giving organic air support to legions, hopefully knocking out 75% of a hospital manse on Ophelis and finally completing the stairway to heaven.

Starmetal Gathering 3 + steam + ships
Resource Expedition [Therak] 3 + ships
[6]

Resource Expedition to scout for Moonsilver deposits, Starmetal Gathering to keep the Hotbloods occupied (and start on Starmetal deposits). Neither seem unreasonable to me.

See, I don't believe the Aeldari have advertized to everyone in the galaxy that they got a Blackstone Fortress. I can't believe that the Empire advertises details about their military losses to xeno enemies, either. Plus, if the Stryxis already know then it isn't a valuable secret. "Secrets" is explicitly about giving Stryxis new information that they CAN use to hurt the Craftworlders. Trying to game this without hurting them will probably be smacked down by the QM. Craftworlds are vastly more valuable as allies so this should be off the table. That option is there to tempt us to betray our potential allies, not because there's some way to ally with both sides in their fight.

I strongly do not want to send more than 1 million Dragon Kings as slaves. Other posters have pointed out Stryxis have fleshcrafting and sell slaves to other aliens. Nobody has indicated that they don't make deals with Chaos. I especially don't want to keep draining our population into slavery indefinitely "until we get around to stopping it sometime next century". We are nowhere close to replacing that with Ulthwe trade. Sending spies was the only possible justification, and you're setting up a Spy Ring instead anyway.

I don't understand the situation with Worm Power Plants. We're told that we can't do anything in the Ghostwind without them, period. But building one isn't even an option.

Click to shrink...

The Stryxis seem local to this area, and we only went out of our way to the Gothic Sector because of a divine mandate to protect the humans (and an opportunity to show off). What is common knowledge there isn't necessarily so here, so there is potential value in bringing that information back. I will concede that the Imperium likely haven't advertised the loss of the fortress, but their idea of 'need to know' is absurd and obtuse ("the stomach doesn't need to know what we had for breakfast" sort of information compartmentalization), and we're told that what is Of Interest to the Stryxis doesn't necessarily mean dangerous to the Eldar.

Regarding replacing Stryxis trade with Ulthwe trade, the deal is;

[ ] Medicine: Immaculate Medicine derived from Seeds of Immaculate Blood harkins the Eldar back to the Healthcare of the height of their Glorious Empire millions of years ago. To satisfy their [initial] needs we need to dedicate a plantation and an Atelier manse to grow the ingredients and produce the medicine. In exchange they will provide a flood of exotic materials from across the Galaxy, +10 Exotic Stockpiles per turn.

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We can probably complete this with 'use Red Seed stockpile to start a plantation on Ophelis, build an atelier to produce the medicine, then do the follow-up project to get the supply chain going'. I'd prefer to do a Beast of Immaculate Seeds as it saves us a manse and some Upkeep (and swapping out later on is potentially iffy) but we could do that fairly quickly. The Beasts option is 9 sux, DC 30 without elemental support but does the plantation bit and atelier all at once.

Would you be okay with 3 million as slaves? 1 million for this first turn as we get our feet under us (and start a spy ring on the Stryxis to keep an eye on them), another 1 million as we do a follow-up infiltration based on initial infiltration work and a completed spy camp manse (plus as we stand up the Beast of Eldar Medicine project), then the last million as we complete the project turning medicine over to the Eldar, advance infiltration of the Stryxis to 'the lizardmen control the government' levels and we use information gleaned on 'our slaves were sold to Chaos planets' to determine where the Mosok are going to raid into dust for our sacrificial pyramids.

Does something along that line of thinking work for you? It would require that we invest in two specific projects ("eldar medicine" and "Mosok go spying") but one of them is basically letting the croc-men do what they want and the other is supporting an ally (we need 20+ to trade, we've got 26 IIRC). Standing up 'and also we need to conquer a quaint little place called Doomslaughter, there's a great place I've marked out for a hunting lodge near Blood Lake' just lets the Anklok have their fun as well.



Does my reasoning stand up for you?
Edit; changed 'solar templeship' to 'four virtues hull' as you requested. Did I miss anything?

 

[Erinys]

Would you be okay with 3 million as slaves?

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No. I am not OK with Dragon Kings subjected to fleshcrafting, soul mutilation, or being sold to Chaos.
I do not believe that we will automatically have a trade agreement with Ulthwe next turn. We haven't even tried to do that diplomacy with them, we haven't got the trade goods made, and we're busy with 5+ quests. We don't have the spy manse, we don't have any of the other prerequisites for this plan even if it wasn't too much of a risk for me. You are putting a caravan before the horse that hasn't been born yet. Even trying to do this would create problems like "Chaos has DK prisoners to do experiments on" that we would have to drop our other projects to start solving.

A spy ring is a spy ring.
Slaves are not a spy ring.

- [x] Design Component [Theion drive + Solar templeship][RUSH]: 3 AP

Click to shrink...

Are you willing to fix this? As written it will be impossible to install on the Four Virtues Hull templeship.
If not then please just drop this component since we won't be able to use it. 3 AP isn't enough to finish any rushed component anyway, you need 5 AP to have a real chance, so it's better to finish 2 than start 3 and finish 0.

we're told that what is Of Interest to the Stryxis doesn't necessarily mean dangerous to the Eldar.

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I saw the exact opposite stated explicity. Value is in the eyes of enemies of the Eldar. Giving them weapons against the Eldar is of course betrayal, by definition.

 

[Slamu]

Are you willing to fix this? As written it will be impossible to install on the Four Virtues Hull templeship.
If not then please just drop this component since we won't be able to use it. 3 AP isn't enough to finish any rushed component anyway, you need 5 AP to have a real chance, so it's better to finish 2 than start 3 and finish 0.

Click to shrink...

I believe that change was made for version 4.3, is there an earlier plan you're wanting to change instead? Also I believe that it goes from being DC 15 to DC 25, 3 is still a viable number (though perhaps not an ideal one, we live within certain constraints)

 

[F0lkL0re]

I don't understand the situation with Worm Power Plants. We're told that we can't do anything in the Ghostwind without them, period. But building one isn't even an option.

Click to shrink...

Right now we have worm power for stationery ground side stuff (equipment like artillery or LTR Spheres) as a back up or for when geomantic power is unavailable but right now we have no designs for ship/station components using the technology.

 

[Adnate]

I'm also not on board with selling DKs to the Stryxis.

 

[Slamu]

No. I am not OK with Dragon Kings subjected to fleshcrafting, soul mutilation, or being sold to Chaos.

Click to shrink...

I'm also not on board with selling DKs to the Stryxis.

Click to shrink...

Ugh, fine. If you cowards aren't willing to subject our people to horrible mutilation and forced labor to enemies of reality then I guess I can make another trade plan. Cowards.
(this is meant as a joke, if that needs to be clarified)

Still, can I at least get support on getting Beast of Eldar Medicine and the trade deal to send it to Ulthwe up and running? We're going to need lots of Exotic stockpiles one way or another and while fishing for Moonsilver deposits should yield some being able to throw a half-dozen at a problem makes shipbuilding go easier. (Incidentally we're going to want to expand our Atelier Manse, Factory Cathedral and Ironwood Plantations as well, and with some few exceptions the FCs need Exotic stockpiles to get started as well)

DC 30, 9 sux needed should be ~12 AP for the Beast of Eldar Medicine, I'm guessing something similar to set up the trade route.

For our obligations, here's how I'm looking at them for the next ~4 turns:

• Home Away From Home/Joura Expedition:
  • Need: Colony ship (have), colonists (Continuing Grace project and population earmarking)
  • Want: Colony stockpiles (have), Elemental Stockpile (project of same name 5 sux), Sakti templeship (design for 2 AP and build for ???), Sakti Arks (build for 3 sux per and infuse for 1 AP per), Escort ships (Dual Imperishables for 9 FC, 19 Atelier and 6 Exotics, Twin Golden Scale Chariots for 2 FCs, 2 Ateliers and 2 Exotics), Great Maker Factoryship (2 FC, 2 Atelier, 3 Exotic), Alchemical Engineer (have) and Gransol Terminus Ordinatus (24 sux DC 45)
  • Evaluation: Have most of what we need and some of what we'll want for expedition, but unlikely to get all the bells and whistles prepared in the time allotted. Recommend expansion of industrial manses to help with shipbuilding, start with Great Maker's templeship and be mindful of stockpiles. Also a reminder that Joura isn't the end of this quest, but one temple-city requested among many.
• Punching the Warp
  • Wyld Fighting Force is at 24/120 and all plans seem to be giving it minimum investment. We could potentially knock out this step in one turn should we drop [Astrology support + Barracks + 20 AP + Thaumaturgy Workshop + 30 Elemental Support + Spark trainers] in it, which would just leave the (presumably smaller) 'call the Emperor to pick up his mercenaries' action, which would give us our first completed task and put us on the nice list for the Imperium (opening up some options, presumably including trade)
  • Evaluation: We can probably keep putting in minimal support here for a bit longer while working on other projects but this is the project closest to completion and we're going to want to train troops for other things (like more legions for us) eventually. A turn or two putting in low effort is fine but we'll want to surge before the end of the next 4 turns.
• The Second
  • Ghostwind Safety Guide is the current step and is a small one, but seems to have a Glow Worm component prerequisite. I'm considering putting Marela on the assignment (for commanding the exploratory mission) given her naval hero and Blank status.
• Caches
  • Turn 56 we did a divination and found our first target is the Khrave.
  • Need: To be able to assault a fortified void citadel guarded by aliens physically on part with Astartes and psychically potent enough to make the Eldar wary of them.
  • Want: Eldar assistance (probably Eldar Warlocks on loan in exchange for Holy Weapons), improved Wyld resistance, a Blank to partake in the assault, additional ships built (Games of Divinity with Ryzla arks and Hanger Queen or lower reliable ships, Imperishable pocket-battleships, Solar Templeships with Ark support, Naval Phalanxes, maybe a Pillar of Understanding or Glimmering Twilight), Astrology support (and perhaps Eldar Divination), occlusion of the attack, probably Lumina pacts, improved wargear access for participants, Sorcerers (in both number and puissance, so do some spell research + Sorcerous Thrones)
  • Evaluation: We can work towards this just by building up other projects, but eventually we'll need to pull the trigger. I don't see that happening for the next 6+ turns, but we want to be mindful of this being a Thing we need to deal with.
• Lanka and the Golden Throne
  • Currently the project is held up at More Sheut are Needed (24 sux) and I intend to pump a bunch of AP into Heroic Ghost Recruitment to make this project complete more efficiently (when astrology says the numbers are right) but I'm not sure if we need to put in a bit of effort soon before the populace at large thinks we're not honoring our agreements.
• Talisman of Vaul
  • We have an inkling of how bad the Talisman assault will be. Much like the Caches we'll want to build up to tackle it, but other than 'build more Globes of Perfected Stability' and 'get ready to fight horrible monsters' I'm not sure what specifically we can do on this count. However "research new weapons", "secure new Magical Material sources" and "improve military capabilities" seem good places to start.

Of note, setting up Ork raiding fleets and mass-sacrificing them should make population growth easier (thus giving more AP and indirectly aiding the Joura expedition's second leg). Also of note is that as written in the post I'm basing several of my assumptions off of we already 'could' hire Eldar mercs, but in practice we're probably better off building the Vaul manse (dedicating its output to holy weapons in perpetuity) and perhaps the Khaine manse + Aspect Shrine as part of the prereqs to the 'hire Eldar mercs' project? Wouldn't hurt to keep buttering up Lugganeth enough to hire corsairs to aid in the attack as well ("we'll do the majority of the fighting but we don't want leakers and your ships are faster than ours" seems a reasonable tactical consideration).

Am I forgetting anything? Other obligations perhaps?


---

[x] Trade Plan Meat In The Middle
-[x] Tools: Honored Bipeds that you are, you are quite strong and clever. We can trade your artifice for entertainments that delight, yes? Yes. Trade the output of an Atelier Manse for the Arena Beasts trade good and gain 1 AP in each Breed. Atelier output will mostly be weapons, probably sold to pirates and slavers.

-[x] Trinkets: We have traveled far and wide and have interest in Trinkets, yes. Perhaps we can trade trinket for Trinket, yes Honored Biped? You gain a Gatcha list of tech items, everyone you choose grants the Stryxis an equivalent. Weapons for weapons, utility gear for utility, entertainment for entertainment.
--[x] Militia weapons
--[x] Celstial Honey/Mead samples
--[x] Ironwood samples
--[x] Medicine samples
--[x] Entertainment (same stuff we traded to Eldar and Lockhart)
--[x] Lizard Tail Regrowth Sphere + glow worms to keep it running
--[x] Grox
--[x] splinter rifles
--[x] Promethium sample
--[x] Ork-B-Gon fungicide sample


-[x] Secrets: Loathsome Eldar freaks are the bane of the galaxy. If you can provide some dread secret of theirs we will whisper of secrets profane to less honorable Biped ears then yours. Tell the Stryxis [insert fact here] about the Eldar and the Stryxis will provide an equally valuable fact. Keep in mind the value is in the eyes of the enemies of the Eldar, not your eyes or the Eldar's perception of value.
--[x] Eldar actions in Gothic War (public version)
--[x] Eldar can see the future (imply we are amazed and superstitious about this, blowing it out of proportion)
--[x] Eldar lost their gods somewhere (don't mention that we keep finding them)

-[x] Lies: Honored Bipeds, your are too glorious and powerful with many friends. Surely such powerful bipeds as you may stride where though wilt. Such as these places. Provide information on Tokat holdings that is riddled with deception and traps for any that tries to follow it and the Stryxis will gleefully share how to enter an Ork trap.

-[x] Hatred: Rumors of the Hated Eldari roaming these stars have reached our profane ears. Oh Honored Bipeds surely you can do something about this? For every Eldar vessel you can provide proof you destroyed they will let you target a world in the Koronus Expanse and subject it to intense raids for a turn when you ask. They care not if its Drukhari, Corsair, or Craftworlder.


Same as above, just without the Meat line item. It still includes the Secrets trade that @Erinys objects to. (Does anyone else object to trading those?)
Do I need to repost both the budget plan and the trade plan or can they be kept separate?

Edit:
[x] Plan Holy Ship v. 4.3
Thank you, Bear Templar.

 

[Bear Templar]

[x] Plan Holy Ship v. 4.3
[x] Trade Plan Meat In The Middle


Not happy with trading people. Mostly because it is a very large reward for what we get so seems like losing morals for large gains...


@Slamu I think your last post will remove your Holy ship vote,

 

[StarJaunter]

I'm basing several of my assumptions off of we already 'could' hire Eldar mercs, but in practice we're probably better off building the Vaul manse (dedicating its output to holy weapons in perpetuity) and perhaps the Khaine manse + Aspect Shrine as part of the prereqs to the 'hire Eldar mercs' project?

Click to shrink...

You can, although doing it as part of a full trade deal is more efficient and having the Khaine Manse with an associated Aspect shrine would make it more efficient yet (at least for those of that aspect).

 

[Slamu]

Omake


The cliff side pounded and thundered, the bare stone enduring against the relentless surf and wind. Jagged rocks from some long-ago volcanic eruption bared their teeth against the sea and in their craigs and crevaces small things lurked. The torrential downpour bothered neither the Eldar man with diagrams upon his bared chest - who was here in spirit only - nor the Mosok who was at home in the rain as in the raging tide below. The only indication that Thirteen Dewdrops Upon Pearls even acknowledged the weather was to occasionally blink when something landed in her eye, and that only in passing.

"It was no great difficulty for myself, of course, but I can see how your surveys had it as a mere water demense of the second coil." Sakti proclaimed, preening. "But this is a site that the Children of Isha of yester-year would have built a temple to the Lord of the Drowning Tides, Mathlann."

Not for the first time had Dewdrop Pearls wondered how much of the Architect was new and old. She made sure to perform one of the mental clarity techniques to help ensure the memory of this conversation was recorded properly for when someone else wanted to review it in search of just such an answer. "The honored Architect is sagacious in such matters" she said, bowing. "We thank him for his insights, bringing this to our attention." It was prudent to be just a bit obsiquious to spirits when they were being helpful. It saved you from some of their temper-tantrums where they felt like they weren't being honored enough, and though she was learning more of spirit-tending than she expected in this life the Senior Sub-Foreman of the Nests of Danaa'd upon Ophelis found she benefitted greatly from relying upon established wisdom when dealing with the local god unexpectedly becoming interested in her work.

One would think that a world fated for battle would find itself with a god of martial inclination, or that was a gift of the Ulthwani would have a spirit that sought to bridge such distance with social graces. Instead...the Architect. It would be less annoying if his insights weren't so timely and helpful. "...course, the superior method would be to build a temple upon a ship and sail it to this bay to be dashed upon the rocks, then ornament it with old foam-beard's bric-a-brac." A stage whisper "He's awfully fond of sea shells, and exotic ones at that."

And Dewdrop Pearls had let her mind wander, of course. Softly chiding herself, she dutifully took notes upon the wax tablet.

 

[StarJaunter]

As noted I will work on adding a Manse of Mathlaan site to Ophelis.

 

[Klaus Wulfenback]

[x] Plan Holy Ship v. 4.3
[x] Trade Plan Meat In The Middle