F0lkL0re
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It happens and there's not really anything in your plan that I find objectionable.
@StarJaunter is my vote for Erinys plan enough of a lead for you to consider it the winner?
Dragon Kings in the 41st Millennia (Exalted/40K Empire)
- Thread starter StarJaunter
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@StarJaunter is my vote for Erinys plan enough of a lead for you to consider it the winner?
A class 1 Theion drive renders the ship it is on unable to be identified beyond "THE SHIP IS HERE"
A class 2 Theion Drive installed in a larger ship could let the larger ship cover up the signatures of smaller nearby ships.
A class 3 Theion drive installed in all ships in a fleet would let the fleet produce "THE FLEET IS HERE" or some equivalent.
So the only issue with Slamu's ideas seems to be the assumption you are going to push the Theion Drive technology beyond the entry level.
I would be sad to proceed with only five votes but if we get to friday and nothing has changed I would be willing to call it and process the turn on the weekend.
Erinys
the Frantic Archivist
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Thanks StarJaunter.
I too would rather see more people vote. Would an omake excite people more? I'm working on one but it isn't finished.
I too would rather see more people vote. Would an omake excite people more? I'm working on one but it isn't finished.
Would you be willing to answer these questions, please?
It's a manse action, which means it goes up to 1/2.
I wish to amend my prior statement; we get +20, not +30 for building both.
I did mean the 'they shouldn't expect us to go after them at home while bumping into them in the field' interpretation, yes.
The four trade goods we know of aren't AP directly, but things we'd spend AP on; exotic stockpiles (each worth a variable amount but x8 is standard for shipbuilding), Research assistance (mostly in autosux), military support giving us specialists we would need to develop ourselves, freeing up AP for other projects or potentially making it easier to make variations of Eldar Aspect Warriors by reducing DC and/or sux needed) and divination-for-divination (loosening what we can get with astrology; either stacking divinations to reduce DC on a complicated project or getting to ask questions like "how do we do x?" instead of "where will y be in z years?". The first two are pretty directly AP adjacent if not AP themselves, while the latter are a bit more abstract yet still helpful. (I suspect the exotic stockpile project will be the most scalable)
We can add more with the Geomantic Expansion project and there are suggestions that we can pull some tricks with Plasma Manses (I'm not clear on that point).
and I always mangle the French spelling when trying to do it from memory. Plus it even has a song!
I'm going to be away from the internet during that time so;
[x] bandwagon plan
I could wish for a bit more time, but perfect is the enemy of good and Erinys' plan does things I like.
F0lkL0re
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Not with Ophelis remember the Eldar already maxed it out over the centuries they worked on it before the Fall.
There is no dice penalty, its an information penalty. They have no idea what they are dealing with.
Neither, the ships location is exactly as easy to locate as a normal drive based ship.
Neither, it is exactly as easy to target the ship as a normal drive based ship.
No,
they do hide any evidence of what weapons you have until you fire, including readiness to fire and whether you are shields up, weather you are damaged, etc.
Why would Dragon Kings use an uncrewed drone ship?
They would take a penalty to this but stealth without cover in space is basically impossible unless you specifically have a stealth able ship.
But it would have a harder time hiding its presence in the asteroids or nebula or whatever... which combined with a previous question means its just as hard to find as a normal ship so you might not be able to find the ship but you know "THE SHIP IS HERE"
"But where is "here""
"The whole Nebula apparently!"
As long as it is obvious limited run stealth ships. I don't want a whole second fleet unless that is going to be a major plot point for the dragon Kings (A Day fleet and a night fleet). In which case you would HAVE to keep them roughly even in potency.
That is you can have exceptions as long as its clear what rule they are exceptions from. No just making the rules murky enough to do whatever you want.
At some point Dragon Kings will have a standard ship technology set up and we should be able to make assumptions about what a standard Dragon King Manseship would have on board, regardless of its specific role, such as drive and shield types.
F0lkL0re
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I do like the idea of having a night and a day fleet but we should come to a consensus before making that decision.
On a tangentially related note being able to combine corsair and night drives would be cool if allowed as there is a certain amount of thematic synergy between the two.
On a tangentially related note being able to combine corsair and night drives would be cool if allowed as there is a certain amount of thematic synergy between the two.
Erinys
the Frantic Archivist
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Slamu, can you please phrase the policy question you want to ask about slave-raiding Orks, so the question would capture the feasibility of spore containment? I could (reluctantly) free up 1 AP by changing Mount Up Boys! to Grox Ranch. Or the question could be delayed to another turn instead.
Class 1 denies enemies information about only one ship, and only until they have fought it once. Not a sustained advantage, still not worth doing compared to Stable Drive or Claw Drive (which we haven't started working on).
Class 2 (or many ship classes with Class 1) confuses enemies more, but tactics benefitting from it are still sharply limited. We would need to do Class 1s or Class 2s on the great majority of our ships (and keep using it going forward) to get any strong advantage. Costs to retrofit the current fleet with Class 1s are 24 for the Flotilla (3 rolled successes +Gemini Shipyard +Factory Cathedral), 6 for Abundant feast, 4 for Harmonic Resonance, 5-6-ish for a Solar Templeship built without it. 6 for Nobz Gob, but I think I prefer to have an identifiable Ork ship for deniable piracy. Void Kraken probably can't be refitted. Stalking Mantis should not be refitted. So 3+6+4 = 13 or 19 rolled successes, quite doable if the advantage is worth the disadvantages. Retrofitting with Class 2 or Class 3 obviously would cost more, no idea how much more.
Class 3 is apparently the one that hides numbers of ships in the fleet and enables most of Slamu's tactics.
Ships/fleets with this can't hide the fact that they're in the solar system or nebula ready to fight, but their exact location isn't broadcast. That significantly reduces my worries, but it does require new tactics for situations where we're outnumbered and/or outgunned, and would want to hide an ambush in asteroid fields and nebulae. We would have to rely on bluffing instead of normal ambushes. Enemies would come to recognize us by species and gain experience with the weapons and tactics we use.
I don't think Day and Night Fleets of equal potency would be a good use of AP and magical materials. Looks expensive. I would think we'd use Night Drives on sneakships like the Stalking Mantis, ships for spying and scouting and raiding and planting secret populations/installations on a planet like Tanith. And I'd prefer Night Drives on those types of vessels no matter what drives our warships use.
So the feasibility of Theion Drives is... they may be worth it if the majority of voters committed to putting them on the vast majority of ships, including retrofits, and researching up to Class 3. But we would also need to hash out good, viable tactics for bluffing instead of ambush fitted to specific enemy civilizations. A lot depends on whether the majority of enemies are better to bluff than to ambush. (Keeping in mind that being an out of context problem will eventually go away for many enemies.)
Edit: Also, the retrofit costs don't seem to include redesigning ships so we don't have to refit each one. I don't think we can redesign ships that were given by the GM, or know if we'd keep Solar Templeship design bonuses. So the costs are actually higher than I thought.
Useful link, thanks.
Things like that would help us use AP more efficiently, yes. Research assistance would be especially welcome; Hoeth's Tower would also do that. If trading divination would let us reduce DCs by 20 with a shorter wait time, that would be good.
Thank you very much StarJaunter. My preliminary strategic thoughts on all this for discussion:
Class 1 denies enemies information about only one ship, and only until they have fought it once. Not a sustained advantage, still not worth doing compared to Stable Drive or Claw Drive (which we haven't started working on).
Class 2 (or many ship classes with Class 1) confuses enemies more, but tactics benefitting from it are still sharply limited. We would need to do Class 1s or Class 2s on the great majority of our ships (and keep using it going forward) to get any strong advantage. Costs to retrofit the current fleet with Class 1s are 24 for the Flotilla (3 rolled successes +Gemini Shipyard +Factory Cathedral), 6 for Abundant feast, 4 for Harmonic Resonance, 5-6-ish for a Solar Templeship built without it. 6 for Nobz Gob, but I think I prefer to have an identifiable Ork ship for deniable piracy. Void Kraken probably can't be refitted. Stalking Mantis should not be refitted. So 3+6+4 = 13 or 19 rolled successes, quite doable if the advantage is worth the disadvantages. Retrofitting with Class 2 or Class 3 obviously would cost more, no idea how much more.
Class 3 is apparently the one that hides numbers of ships in the fleet and enables most of Slamu's tactics.
Ships/fleets with this can't hide the fact that they're in the solar system or nebula ready to fight, but their exact location isn't broadcast. That significantly reduces my worries, but it does require new tactics for situations where we're outnumbered and/or outgunned, and would want to hide an ambush in asteroid fields and nebulae. We would have to rely on bluffing instead of normal ambushes. Enemies would come to recognize us by species and gain experience with the weapons and tactics we use.
- Orks are probably better ambushed instead of bluffed. They don't seem to get intimidated.
- Drukari are likely easier to intimidate and bluff because they presumably value their lives and souls. But they're arrogant and would assume they outclass everyone except Necrons, so bluffing may be insufficient. Likewise for Craftworlds that become enemies, except we can't make them creatures of darkness so easily.
- For Chaos, Khrave, Imperials, Devils from Beyond, Necrons, Rak-Gol, Tyrannids, Yu-Vath, and Votann I got no guess which tactic is better.
- People we want diplomacy with... it's hard to guess. This is 40k so negotiating while holding a mystery gun may be a good principle. But we don't want to panic potential trading partners with incomprehensible ships they can't scan, and start a pointless war like the Earth-Minbari War in Babylon 5. It's likely necessary for diplomacy ships to lack a Theion drive even if we use them. Stable Drive (make the most of small guns), Surety Drive (cheaper to build), Swift Drive (to escape battle fast), or Claw Drive (to dodge) would be better choices.
I was thinking like a human, of course every ship would have at least a pilot. My idea is a tiny ship with just the engine, a pilot, and maybe plasma guns to act as a decoy and confusion -- get the enemy to waste shots and maneuvering on cheap disposable ships. Don't bother with shields or cargo space. But it probably won't work if the drive can't hide which ships have the big heavy guns. At best it would inflate apparent escort numbers in a fleet without Class 3 drives.
I don't think Day and Night Fleets of equal potency would be a good use of AP and magical materials. Looks expensive. I would think we'd use Night Drives on sneakships like the Stalking Mantis, ships for spying and scouting and raiding and planting secret populations/installations on a planet like Tanith. And I'd prefer Night Drives on those types of vessels no matter what drives our warships use.
So the feasibility of Theion Drives is... they may be worth it if the majority of voters committed to putting them on the vast majority of ships, including retrofits, and researching up to Class 3. But we would also need to hash out good, viable tactics for bluffing instead of ambush fitted to specific enemy civilizations. A lot depends on whether the majority of enemies are better to bluff than to ambush. (Keeping in mind that being an out of context problem will eventually go away for many enemies.)
Edit: Also, the retrofit costs don't seem to include redesigning ships so we don't have to refit each one. I don't think we can redesign ships that were given by the GM, or know if we'd keep Solar Templeship design bonuses. So the costs are actually higher than I thought.
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F0lkL0re
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Please don't Mount Up Boys! is by far leagues more useful to us right now as we don't have the population numbers numbers on any world that adding to it's population limit would be of any use.
Erinys
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I don't want to do Grox anyway.
The only other options to pay for a slaving Policy Question would be removing 1 AP from Coruscating Plasma Beam Array, Unshaped Hunt, or Artha Shambol. I'm even more reluctant to knock those down a notch. It seems best to delay the Policy Question to a later turn, especially since we're not ready to build slave raiding ships yet.
Edit: Actually I could dump Suppression (Khyral) on the assumption the planet will be cleansed. That is one that depends on Elemental Support, most likely 1-2 dice.
The only other options to pay for a slaving Policy Question would be removing 1 AP from Coruscating Plasma Beam Array, Unshaped Hunt, or Artha Shambol. I'm even more reluctant to knock those down a notch. It seems best to delay the Policy Question to a later turn, especially since we're not ready to build slave raiding ships yet.
Edit: Actually I could dump Suppression (Khyral) on the assumption the planet will be cleansed. That is one that depends on Elemental Support, most likely 1-2 dice.
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F0lkL0re
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The slaving policy has a similar problem to the grox ranches in that it's a bit early to be putting effort towards them, in this case we have no source of Orks that we know about and we will need specialist ships to carry out the raids because our current ships aren't designed with carrying large amounts of captives, now it will be different when we run into the Undred-Undred Teef or some other group but right now we haven't even finished our take over of our sub-sector so it's best left until then or until we have reliable web-way access to Ork infested worlds.
Do you have a source for that?
I'm favorably enough inclined to do a Policy project concerning it.
There are a few such combinations I can see working well together; Night + Corsair and Ramship + Burst Drive come to mind.
I'm willing to abstain this turn in exchange for a good faith agreement to include it next turn's plan. I'd phrase it something like 'examine the potential risks and rewards for slaving raids against Shroomborn to supplement Realm resources'.
Hence why I'm keen to get cracking on some of the assorted projects. Several of them are Raptok in nature (Cores for Eldar, Beast of Immaculate Medicine [Eldar], Eldar Cores recharging manse) and would likely benefit from some basic groundwork (diplomacy manse + embassy + trade expo (the only component I can see the Mosok contributing in this instance), Alchemical Socialites) which by necessity compete with about 90% of the other infrastructure we want to build, but with increased infrastructure construction comes increased capabilities to continue the same. Another reason to be interested in slave raiding; it's potentially more AP (though inconsistent and likely on a 'roll per turn' effect akin to resource expeditions) that nets resources to engage in other projects (the initial synergy I see is 'slaves to sacrifice for the Most High for more population rites, use population to settle worlds we conquer from riled-up Orks, Corpse-Eaters help keep the de-orking projects cheaper and supplement colonization efforts', which is a virtuous cycle that ought to help us populate the Koronus Expanse in advance of the warp storm blocking entry to the area clearing up and Imperials coming to poke their nose in uninvited.
Tangentially related note, are Temples built on Ophelis "2 AP needed, 2 sux needed", "1 AP needed, 2 sux needed" or an unchanged "2 AP needed, 3 sux needed"?
They absolutely do not value their lives, and they absolutely value their souls. The Dark Eldar retain the Eldar Empire's ability to basically 'resleeve' a soul whose body has been killed, so any dukari raider killed wakes up in a clone body with mostly all their memories. The catch is that the group in their society in charge of the cloning and reviving process are monsters the like of which even other Dark Eldar are intimidated by so there's always a chance that your 'new body' is not something you want to live in. (They have access to units with game rules called things like 'too horrible to die' and 'agony unending'. acutely not nice people)
Their souls are slowly being siphoned off by She Who Thirsts and do all the horrible things they do to stave off that ultimate end (to clarify, other methods of soul preservation exist; they just don't want to stop what they're doing). One of the reasons we should get the Soul Capturing Seeds of Renewal researched and rolled out is to use against them should we face them. Losing a raiding party or three isn't the end of the world for them, it happens all the time, but eventually someone will notice that B'ob didn't come back after he was killed fighting the lizard people and they will have a choice to make; will they be prudent and bother someone else or will they seek glory in facing the Dragon Kings who (presumably) are gathering a reputation. (This is one of those problems that will solve itself over time)
That said we likely are going to have few naval clashes with the Dark Eldar; they primarily target weak or distracted enemies, as they are 'raiders' not 'a navy'. They want slaves to bring home and force into [list of unpleasant fates], you'll only encounter them when either some young buck wants to make a name for themselves cracking a tough nut (reputation for being bold, cunning and ruthless is solid currency in their society) so they'll try to do something stupid like 'kidnap Kukulkan on Tokat to drag to the Flesh Pits' (I don't see that ending well for them but they could cause damage) or they've been bleeding the so-and-so sector so we send a force of ships to try and intercept the raiders and burn out their nest (which is a lot more likely to be frigate work with cruiser support than the reverse, although divination and access to the Webway changes things up there)
If we were going to fight them I'd say that's a job for Night Fleet more than Day Fleet (if such gets approved)
There is some old lore that one of the Necron Gods (C'tan) instilled the fear of death into every race in the galaxy...except Orks because that would require Orks to accept that they could die. They're willing to accept that other orks die, but since it's never happened to them....
I'm obviously in favor of Theion Drive here, but just looking at Imperials and Chaos, we made a strong showing in the Gothic War with just one warship and a colony ship. Apologizing that the ships were rush-built and didn't have all their systems installed (an excuse for the redesign) should make our ships count extra in the eyes of admirals who have knowledge of us. Abbadon had plans centuries in the making ruined by us and actually made him flee with his minimum acceptable gains, including needing to double tap a cruiser with plot-device levels of damage from a rare and strategically invaluable fortress (that he only has one of at the moment).
If you were someone who knew the trouble the Herald got up to, the sort of fights it took on and won (destroying a supership with a battleship group escorting it, blew a hole in one of your super-special blackstone fortresses) and saw how difficult it was to destroy the Herald you'd want to prepare special contingencies for what you encountered last time. But instead of getting a rock solid defense and guns that tackle entire squadrons of supposedly peer opponents, the unknown ship you encounter just drops a bajillion strikecraft and stays at range (Games of Divinity), or 'lets' itself get within boarding range and counter-boards with crack troops (hypothetical Leeyata templeship) or just is the mother of all ramming ships. Sure using overwhelming force against the Games of Divinity might crack it like an egg (assuming you can catch it; +2 maneuverability and PCA treating it as less outnumbered than it should be on top of its strikecraft being hungry pirhanas going after whatever they can catch) but if you wasted a contingency you had specially prepared for the Herald against a lesser ship that's' resources you can't use against the Herald when it shows up. Or perhaps you're certain, absolutely certain you have something that can tackle the Herald of Dawn...and it turns out Nysela is captaining the Glimmering Twilight and is warming up for a drum solo. Or perhaps that single, slow, confident signal you see approaching you is just a transport trying to bluff you. Go ahead, roll those dice.
Y'know, head games.
I also want to combine Night Drives with Ram Drives for jade ramming chariots (with certain add-ons like the essence concussive ram and boarding fields) so while you're focused on the gun duel with someone big and flashy (originally this was going to be a pennent with stable drive + ox body + elektron to keep healing up those HLs, recent policy clarifications regarding 'just pick a drive type and stick with it' is sending me to the drawing board) it is very easy for you to miss the ram ship that does 3 levels of damage and has a starting advantage boarding things.
Can I persuade you at least that 'day and night fleets' is worth a policy review?
Also one of the reasons we're pushing Solar Templeship + Theion Drive is that it potentially lets us treat it as though it were a step above what we actually have; ie, "this tier 1 drive is more like a tier 1.5 drive" which should give us an advantage anytime we bring in Solar Templeships.
It's also a morale booster.
Slaving policy I presume would inform ship design, and let's not pretend that it'll take us long to find more orks. We were given some input as to how slave ships might be designed but Erinys seems concerned about potential spore contamination. I'm hopeful that a policy will give us clear guidance on what we'd need to do ("design ship, design raiding flotilla, build them, build slave processing facility, suggest including temple to Han Tha on planet, build god of raiding Orks (Mosok can help), do exploratory action" etc.
Incidentally I want to do a 1 AP 'design short-range scout ship' to help with local snooping around, are you okay with that? I figure longer-range exploration would be the purview of the Pillar of Understanding but mid-range military scouting can be 'scout ship + minotaur transport'.
Erinys
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Yes I am concerned about having to re-cleanse the planet, it would probably be too expensive to justify the slaving. If you write a Policy please include "feasibility of and methods to prevent spore contamination". Even with that... I just don't see the need to do it so soon. We have a number of other ship designs we already want to build - Solar Templeship, 1st Ophelis Flotilla, large warships, a non-Orky jade ramships, 1-2 Factory Ships, Games of Divinity, Pillar of Understanding, Sakti Templeship, Leeayta Templeship, & Night Drive sneakships with easier upkeep than the Stalking Mantis. I get the impression you expect a huge bounty of AP to come out of slave-raiding but ... Probably the policy question should also ask about AP yield per AP spent. Yeah, net return ratio is a question the Policy action might answer.
🌽 Edit: Also once we're ready to build a temple to Isha (turn 60-62?), I need to request detailed steps to design those 5 other ships from the special ship vote. I don't expect us to build them all right away, but I think we're already able to design Cobships and almost ready to design Twin Hunters.
You mean, one to replace the Stalking Mantis? It would need the Night Drive designed first, as much as I do appreciate the Mantis' nauseating eye-bleeding look.
You mean that it has some component that makes the [whatever] drive overperform? Or makes it mimic extra technology we technically haven't designed yet?
This isn't yet helping me guess how advantages and disadvantages would balance each other with Theion Drives. :/ I think I'm going to ask StarJaunter about costs to retrofit ships with Class 2 and Class 3 drives, and whether it's possible to retrofit the special rule-breaking ship designs that he designed before we've researched all the components for ourselves. The answers might be "fairly cheap" and "sure", or it might be "expensive" and "nope". Given that the Factory-Ship mostly can't defend itself, we'd want it disguised as a warship if we were using Theion Drives. On the other hand, when we have a Gemini shipyard and factory cathedral available, the Flotillas are cheap to retrofit with a Class 1.
🌞 Edit: The thing about stealth and hiding and ambushes... if you're waiting in a nebula or asteroid field, they don't know where the ambush is but they won't be caught flat-footed. That would probably mostly but not totally spoil the ambush. After engaging in battle, it would not spoil attempts to hide a damaged ship (supposing Dragon Kings had something valuable to preserve).
🌚 Edit: My concern about a full Night Fleet is that it would cost a lot more than just having one warship fleet and a small number of sneakships, because we'd need two of everything. If we didn't need them to have nearly identical composition, then ... I still don't know. Other than ramships what would we use it for? An ambush-specialist warship? Make all our patrol ships and flotillas sneaky? Specialist Drukari-fighting ship? Those could actually be really useful, but not automatically in equal volumes.
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Me, I am willing to say that is the situation.
The initial dichotomy I'm imagining is 'templeships and larger are Theion Drive, Pennents and smaller are Night Drive' just for a simple line drawn. Smaller ships have higher Maneuver scores and are likely naturally easier to hide anyway, while larger ships are more able to fit nice toys into and thus more able to perform well in combat missions.
A specialist Eldar (mostly Drukari but should be fairly applicable to Craftworlders due to their understandable similarity in warfighting doctrines) would look something like "adamant hull with lance batteries"; Eldar ships are dodge tanks that eschew void shields for hologram shenanigans, being able to see through that and their innate Electronic Warfare nonsense should leave them mostly exposed to enemy fire, and lance batteries just mean we're ignoring what little armor they have to get to the juicy center. I'd want it on a smaller craft that is naturally faster (probably with a corsair drive to help chase down fleeing ships) and if we're making a group of such ships I'd probably include some sort of carrier support, especially if we can improve the Warbirds' sensors or incorporate similar into the pilots somehow (perhaps do some sort of "elite pilot transdraconianism" project sometime? One of the options for improving the Warbird was 'make the pilots have high level Air paths despite their age' IIRC).
I wouldn't suggest that every ship design should come in both night and day drives, but rather like a magician drawing your attention to their right hand, the left hand is getting ready to do something you'd rather they not (ie 'ram and board you' or 'slip past a blockade' or 'remotely hack into your systems via geomid summoning to change all your IFF around' or 'where did that shoal of artifact/elemental summoning torpedoes come from'). While I don't know how improved Night Drives would work (I presume just improving 'double 9s' goes to 'double 8s' etc), I would draw a distinction between quiet ships ("just have a Night Drive") and stealth ships ("night drive + cloaking device + notice me not" etc). The only stealth ships I can think we'll want off the top of my head are "Stalking Mantis successor" workhorse spy ship (insert teams into systems and generally support covert operations), Shining Flower templeship supporting dedicated assassins ("for the Glory of the Unconquered Sun the following people are getting their hearts cut out") and maybe some sort of dedicated smuggling ship/blockade runner (still iffy on that one but it'd probably be something like "chariot/pennant with big cargo holds made bigger with space expanding tech built on Steammetal and equipped with moonsilver hull because we don't want to get seen dropping off X cargo")
I believe we have instructions for what we should research for the Gardenship. Given that I (eventually, like "Turn 100+") want to build a Dragon King Craftworld and launch it on a hidden course so we've got a backup for 'what if someone actually does manage to kill all our guys on established planets?' we can just start hatching eggs and rebuild population that way rather than requiring divine intervention to save our tails, I was looking for something like the space borne community component already and would support its research. I am also wanting to trial its use in a massive trade ship. That'd look something like;
Jurai Directional Titan
- massive cargo hold (size tbd but expected to be Big)
- space borne community (reduce upkeep requirements, provide a place narritively interesting people could come from)
- Ten Thousand Crossroads Bazaar (mercantile component to help facilitate trade with whomever)
- espionage component (name pending, but basically "makes it easier to slip spies into words we're visiting")
- Xeno passenger accomodations (probably Tau for the most part)
The idea here is to travel around friendly space dropping off crocodiles on assorted planets and turn a profit in doing so. I don't know if that'd manifest as 'every ten turns you get a bounty of AP' or 'you are assumed to have access to X due to having massive trade ships plying the following trade lanes' or what, but it seems like something the Mosok would approve of in general. Plus it'd give us influence over them; their FTL systems are like x10 slower than the Imperiums because they just sorta skirt the bordermarches instead of actually going into the Wyld ('like skipping a stone on a pond' was the descriptor I've heard) which means we'd be able to move more things and faster using our services, giving us a commercial edge over our Tau 'allies' and letting us check up on their worlds. If the only thing this lets us do is slip in tier 3 spy networks (the ones that Chur's espionage option says was standard back in creation, the 'we don't expect trouble but we'll hear about if it's coming' level) then it pays for itself.
I do expect to have such concerns included in such a policy, especially when phrased as 'pros and cons'. If one of the cons is "every 3 AP generated requires 1 AP of spore suppression and removal" or "processing more than 5 AP per facility each turn has increasing risk of Shroomborn revolt" I would expect that to be listed. I attempt to keep the policy terse to give Starjaunter a free hand to give us what we want to know rather than a paragraph of 'if but also the abovementioned stipulations' because they read the comments (demonstrably) and are aware of the ongoing conversations. I trust them not to monkeypaw us with "I said you can do this, but you never asked if it was a bad idea! mwaa haa haa haa!" etc.
IIRC one of the points made was 'how do you want to do the slaving'; both 'large fleets of sloops bringing in small numbers of slaves (that add up)' and 'singular fleet with a few large slave barges drawing from only a few locations' are mentioned as possibilites; the first spreads out the slave raids so no one Ork world gets riled up too much and lets the Mosok have more fun, but it sounded like the second would have higher immediate returns in exchange for Ork Planet Gitsmasha getting riled up for a fight and DC increases each turn and after a few turns it's better to invade and conquer than raid (but that just means we get new real estate and hopefully the slaves helped pay for the population to settle and de-ork it). A more detailed breakdown of options should probably be found as part of the study.
No reason we can't keep the eye-bleeding look for the redesign, I just want something that can turn that Mosok-only upkeep into fleet upkeep (that can be reduced with the NAO and Constellation Academy). Speaking of, any objection to doing [25y] projections on building more of those? The Atelier manse we can switch over at any time (incidentally we'll want to build more of those going forward, and Factory Cathedrals) but those have 9 sux, DC 35 to them which means we can shave off two or three AP there depending on how the roll goes. Little risk of them falling on the same turn as well, as they're paid for out of different budgets.
I want to get more Factory Cathedrals and Ateliers built, a total of 8 and 12 at least (and attendant Engineers for the FCs as well). The Witchfire Forge and Vaul's Forge are on the slave to bring us from 3 to 5 presently, but building the other 3 on Ophelis seems prudent (I was thinking more 'spread out the industrial capacity in case Something Happens to Tokat but the reduced build cost thanks to Sakti is appreciated as well) should bring us to something like "DC 45 (-astrology divination), 6 successes x 3 for 18 (reduced by administrative efficiencies).
In related news, when did we want to build the Pillar of Understanding? I figure it's currently a 2 turn build (4 AP + atelier x4 + FC x3 + Engineer + exotic x1) both turns but the +5 to Upkeep is worth a NAO by itself. Plus we can't exactly load it down with the 2,000 Logistics Stockpiles we'll want to send it off on long-range exploratory missions but we can probably handle ~120 for a few turns to explore the Koronus Expanse.
Erinys
the Frantic Archivist
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Meaning, the larger ships would be hard to hide even without the Theion Drive? And smaller ships have more to lose by not being hidable?
So if I understand what you're picturing:
Templeships and larger: Day fleet with Theion Drives
Wayfarers: ??
Pennants and smaller, ramships: Night fleet but mostly not fully stealthed
Elfslayers: Night Drive or Corsair Drive, adamant hull, lightning lances, adamant-enhanced sensors
Spy/Scout ship: Night Drive, fully stealthed
I would not want any ship designs to have both Night and Day versions, that's extra expense and time spent redesigning and retrofitting existing ships and designs every time we research a better version of a drive.
The difficulty with distinguishing by size is that you can't then have a stealthy Shining Flower templeship, a quiet covert population carrier for Tanith, or Theion Drive transports and attack craft bluffing that they're the Luminous Herald.
No useable details, though.
Fair enough but it should still ask about spore containment in addition to just slave raiding.
I want to start building more NAO and Academia as soon as possible, preferrably having it done before we start building the Solar Templeship. We don't have an action telling us how to convert an Atelier manse so I don't know if we can.
I wish to use Ateliers, Factory-Cathedrals, and the Engineer on Birds of a Feather, Standardization, Solar Templeship, and Factory-Ship first. I think Standardization with 2 Ateliers, 1 FC, and 1 Engineer only needs 35 rolled successes and we can get most of those from exotic stockpiles if we want. So it can go fast, probably in a single turn. Likewise Birds can be done in a single turn, probably the same turn. I propose we get those done turns 58-59, and then start building ships.
Results from my question about Shrineworlds would also allow us to plan which planet to go to and what to bring: Gransol Terminus or Abundant Feast, what warship, equipment.
I also want to start Basic Patrols. It only takes 1 AP each to set up but it's one thing we've been neglecting that we should have. Let's push the Kireeki Skyremes through the Gate to patrol Ophelis, and spread the Flotilla through the Tokati Sub-sector (4 staying at Tokat, 2 at each other system) and those can easily rotate to Tokat one at a time for 25-year logistics resupply.
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Inkling Chasm
Omake
Little Rain got off her tunnel ride at an unfamiliar stop. Dragon King passageways were by their nature more sparsely populated than similar human construction, a combination of the comparative scarcity of their race and the fact that apex predators, however well socialized, rarely fare well packed too closely together. Looking around she saw few of the indicators common to rural stops near villages to help travellers know where some vestage of civilization might be found. Instead the only other passenger at this unmarked stop began to approach her, causing her to shift her flight satchel uncomfortably.
"Gentle Showers Upon Scented Boughs?" The Mosok asked.
The Pterok chirruped an affirmative before glancing back at the tunnel, as though she could divine how she had arrived here. "Yes, I'm sorry but I suspect the tube made a mistake..."
Her words died as the Mosok held up a token bearing the seal of the Cuttlefish. "The tubes don't make mistakes. What they do is intentional." Then, continuing on in the same serious tone "Just a bit of humor we have around here. Come with me, you're right where you are supposed to be."
Not seeing a better option the Pterok continued on, only to realize that the tunnel didn't open out into some bucolic hillside, but rather into a dimly lit basalt monolith deep under the sea. "Where are we?" She asked just before entering the essence-charged water and began to swim after her chaparone. It felt good to stretch her wings after so long underground, even if it was to fly through water instead of air.
"Can't you guess?" Her guide asked, causing Little Rain to dwell on what she knew. Given the distance she'd travelled from Luthe, the stygian darkness outside and the fact that they were obviously at a manse, it took very little for her to deduce the answer.
"Water Manse #31 - Inkling Chasm. It's supposed to be an unmanned manse with a demi-decinnial upkeep from one of the nearby island villages." She quirked her head in thought, puzzeling out the implications. "The official record is falsified, this is a Cuttlefish recruiting depot." She paused. "I doubt I would make an impressive recruit."
The Mosok shook its head in a negation. "Was slated to become a recruiting depot, but when recruitment lagged and other clandestine sites were required, this was earmarked for a reorientation of purpose. You find yourself now in the Black Bureau, where covert voidship design occurs. It is the most secret location in the Realm bureaucracy."
Little Rain thought at that statement for a moment, then responded. "That you know of."
She hadn't expected the bark of laughter, still with a straight face. Who was this Mosok and why did it not emote properly? "Yes. That is one of the jokes we tell ourselves here. We were working on the Stalking Mantis design long before its necessity was recognized by the Realm at large. Many here have been following its exploits with vicarious delight." The Mosok angled down to where a sculpted coral outcropping aped a landing pad. Such would be too fragile to use in dryer climes, but...ah, yes. Underwater it worked well enough.
"What are you working on now?" She perhaps shouldn't be asking such questions, but a Pterok that wasn't curious was like an Anklok that didn't thump its chest. The Mosok looked behind himself and bared his teeth in what even a human would not mistake for a grin. Well, maybe. It wasn't like she had first hand with humans given she was barely hatched when the last time humans visited during her first and thus far only life.
Her eyesight noticed shapes moving in the gloom, a pack of Mosok gradually winding their way back to the manse. One of them was carrying what appeared to be a shark tail still bleeding in the water. Out to lunch, then. "Full details come with an oath of secrecy, of course - one that causes self immolation when you discuss matters outside this manse - but we are looking at what the Realm would benefit from in its first generation of sloops. Tell me, what do you know of Night Drives?"
Little Rain hummed a moment before recalling collections of disparate details. "A hypothetical drive system emphasizing stealth. There were a number of theoretical models suggested, but nothing ready for prototyping." She blinked. "Ah, I see. I am here to aid in such research? I must tell you, while I spent time in Drive Development the Pagoda Drive likewise was shelved once Ramming Drives proved viable. I did little more than handle archival work for any of the others."
Her guide waved her off. "That is sufficient. Insights you might have are welcome, but we wish to use you more for efforts to inject our designs into the proper places. One can't very well maintain a secret research bureau and stomp into downtown Luthe whenever we've cracked some tricky project, can we?"
She had actually assumed something very much exactly like that. "However did you manage it with the Stalking Mantis? You clearly have a system already."
A mournful shrug. "We convinced Cuttlefish trainees to break in and leave it where it should be found. That can work once or twice, but better to have an agent on the inside who can slip such work in without all the fuss."
The Pterok considered. "You sound like I have already accepted. My duties with the Naval Archives keep me quite busy enough, and rumor has it that another surge in spirit-tasking is expected soon." There were always such rumors, of course, and while her archival duties were time-consuming they were also light, an artifact of the at-present paucity of archives to tend and the admittedly lackluster advancement in traditional Pterok arts she had demonstrated thus far. 'I can't help your secret club because I have my beak in a pile of scrolls' may have sounded like a Pterok stereotype, but it sounded better than 'I spend my twilight hours attending Remedial Occult Sciences lectures'. Because I'm sorry Gregarious Thunder, some of us don't have a hundred lifetimes of being masters of every known thaumaturgy, alright! Not that she was irritated at the loud-beak, no-o! Ugh, she needed a mud bath right now.
If the Mosok could read her mind - and there were plenty of rumors they could - the androgynous Cuttlefish kept it off their face. "There is little point in planning otherwise, given that if you would not join us and take the secrecy oath we will kill you and feed your body to the ocean. It will be difficult to talk about us if you must first learn to talk, no?"
Wait, what? Did they just suggest what she thought they said? Ice ran through her gizzard. "What?! No, you- you can't!"
"I assure you we very much can." Curse that bland expression!
"No, I mean" She struggled to phrase it gently and failed. "I've never died before, I don't know how!"
That actually paused the Cuttlefish for a moment before they shrugged once more. "First time happens eventually. Still, we can make it painful for you if you like. Make it memorable enough that you aren't scared of it next time around."
How was that better? "I'll be missed! Someone will ask questions!"
The Cuttlefish shrugged. "Gentle Showers Upon Scented Boughs was last seen in a public place, thoroughly intoxicated and complaining about a lack of respect. She vowed to hunt a suitably impressive beast and bring its head back to prove the deed. Her personal effects washed ashore somewhere in the Tzan-kaa archipelago. Alas, we must wait to hear more after she learns to speak once more."
The returning Mosok were making good time as they swam closer to the coral she and the Cuttlefish were standing on, and for all their casual pace she recognized an encirclement when it happened. The Dragon Kings, as a culture, do not tend to have a phrase for a leonine contract. They would completely understand the notion however, and the closest idiom in common parlance was 'swimming with crocodiles'. Little Rain gave the Cuttlefish a baleful glare that had as much effect on them as thunder did to the deep sea. "Ugh, fine. But don't expect me to be happy about this."
Little Rain got off her tunnel ride at an unfamiliar stop. Dragon King passageways were by their nature more sparsely populated than similar human construction, a combination of the comparative scarcity of their race and the fact that apex predators, however well socialized, rarely fare well packed too closely together. Looking around she saw few of the indicators common to rural stops near villages to help travellers know where some vestage of civilization might be found. Instead the only other passenger at this unmarked stop began to approach her, causing her to shift her flight satchel uncomfortably.
"Gentle Showers Upon Scented Boughs?" The Mosok asked.
The Pterok chirruped an affirmative before glancing back at the tunnel, as though she could divine how she had arrived here. "Yes, I'm sorry but I suspect the tube made a mistake..."
Her words died as the Mosok held up a token bearing the seal of the Cuttlefish. "The tubes don't make mistakes. What they do is intentional." Then, continuing on in the same serious tone "Just a bit of humor we have around here. Come with me, you're right where you are supposed to be."
Not seeing a better option the Pterok continued on, only to realize that the tunnel didn't open out into some bucolic hillside, but rather into a dimly lit basalt monolith deep under the sea. "Where are we?" She asked just before entering the essence-charged water and began to swim after her chaparone. It felt good to stretch her wings after so long underground, even if it was to fly through water instead of air.
"Can't you guess?" Her guide asked, causing Little Rain to dwell on what she knew. Given the distance she'd travelled from Luthe, the stygian darkness outside and the fact that they were obviously at a manse, it took very little for her to deduce the answer.
"Water Manse #31 - Inkling Chasm. It's supposed to be an unmanned manse with a demi-decinnial upkeep from one of the nearby island villages." She quirked her head in thought, puzzeling out the implications. "The official record is falsified, this is a Cuttlefish recruiting depot." She paused. "I doubt I would make an impressive recruit."
The Mosok shook its head in a negation. "Was slated to become a recruiting depot, but when recruitment lagged and other clandestine sites were required, this was earmarked for a reorientation of purpose. You find yourself now in the Black Bureau, where covert voidship design occurs. It is the most secret location in the Realm bureaucracy."
Little Rain thought at that statement for a moment, then responded. "That you know of."
She hadn't expected the bark of laughter, still with a straight face. Who was this Mosok and why did it not emote properly? "Yes. That is one of the jokes we tell ourselves here. We were working on the Stalking Mantis design long before its necessity was recognized by the Realm at large. Many here have been following its exploits with vicarious delight." The Mosok angled down to where a sculpted coral outcropping aped a landing pad. Such would be too fragile to use in dryer climes, but...ah, yes. Underwater it worked well enough.
"What are you working on now?" She perhaps shouldn't be asking such questions, but a Pterok that wasn't curious was like an Anklok that didn't thump its chest. The Mosok looked behind himself and bared his teeth in what even a human would not mistake for a grin. Well, maybe. It wasn't like she had first hand with humans given she was barely hatched when the last time humans visited during her first and thus far only life.
Her eyesight noticed shapes moving in the gloom, a pack of Mosok gradually winding their way back to the manse. One of them was carrying what appeared to be a shark tail still bleeding in the water. Out to lunch, then. "Full details come with an oath of secrecy, of course - one that causes self immolation when you discuss matters outside this manse - but we are looking at what the Realm would benefit from in its first generation of sloops. Tell me, what do you know of Night Drives?"
Little Rain hummed a moment before recalling collections of disparate details. "A hypothetical drive system emphasizing stealth. There were a number of theoretical models suggested, but nothing ready for prototyping." She blinked. "Ah, I see. I am here to aid in such research? I must tell you, while I spent time in Drive Development the Pagoda Drive likewise was shelved once Ramming Drives proved viable. I did little more than handle archival work for any of the others."
Her guide waved her off. "That is sufficient. Insights you might have are welcome, but we wish to use you more for efforts to inject our designs into the proper places. One can't very well maintain a secret research bureau and stomp into downtown Luthe whenever we've cracked some tricky project, can we?"
She had actually assumed something very much exactly like that. "However did you manage it with the Stalking Mantis? You clearly have a system already."
A mournful shrug. "We convinced Cuttlefish trainees to break in and leave it where it should be found. That can work once or twice, but better to have an agent on the inside who can slip such work in without all the fuss."
The Pterok considered. "You sound like I have already accepted. My duties with the Naval Archives keep me quite busy enough, and rumor has it that another surge in spirit-tasking is expected soon." There were always such rumors, of course, and while her archival duties were time-consuming they were also light, an artifact of the at-present paucity of archives to tend and the admittedly lackluster advancement in traditional Pterok arts she had demonstrated thus far. 'I can't help your secret club because I have my beak in a pile of scrolls' may have sounded like a Pterok stereotype, but it sounded better than 'I spend my twilight hours attending Remedial Occult Sciences lectures'. Because I'm sorry Gregarious Thunder, some of us don't have a hundred lifetimes of being masters of every known thaumaturgy, alright! Not that she was irritated at the loud-beak, no-o! Ugh, she needed a mud bath right now.
If the Mosok could read her mind - and there were plenty of rumors they could - the androgynous Cuttlefish kept it off their face. "There is little point in planning otherwise, given that if you would not join us and take the secrecy oath we will kill you and feed your body to the ocean. It will be difficult to talk about us if you must first learn to talk, no?"
Wait, what? Did they just suggest what she thought they said? Ice ran through her gizzard. "What?! No, you- you can't!"
"I assure you we very much can." Curse that bland expression!
"No, I mean" She struggled to phrase it gently and failed. "I've never died before, I don't know how!"
That actually paused the Cuttlefish for a moment before they shrugged once more. "First time happens eventually. Still, we can make it painful for you if you like. Make it memorable enough that you aren't scared of it next time around."
How was that better? "I'll be missed! Someone will ask questions!"
The Cuttlefish shrugged. "Gentle Showers Upon Scented Boughs was last seen in a public place, thoroughly intoxicated and complaining about a lack of respect. She vowed to hunt a suitably impressive beast and bring its head back to prove the deed. Her personal effects washed ashore somewhere in the Tzan-kaa archipelago. Alas, we must wait to hear more after she learns to speak once more."
The returning Mosok were making good time as they swam closer to the coral she and the Cuttlefish were standing on, and for all their casual pace she recognized an encirclement when it happened. The Dragon Kings, as a culture, do not tend to have a phrase for a leonine contract. They would completely understand the notion however, and the closest idiom in common parlance was 'swimming with crocodiles'. Little Rain gave the Cuttlefish a baleful glare that had as much effect on them as thunder did to the deep sea. "Ugh, fine. But don't expect me to be happy about this."
Basically the split, yes. I'd include a few exceptions in each case when it makes sense - Shining Flower assassin ship or an escort Chariot loaded down with an adamant hull and extra point defenses so it can help thin out torpedo salvoes for capital ships for example - but 'exceptions where that makes sense' was a provision StarJaunter allowed for I believe.
How do you mean? Research the listed components, then do a ship design action and you should get something very similar to what was offered. (Alternately "assign a bunch of AP to the design option and how you roll well" or "write an omake and ask for that as a reward" but that's going around the system rather than working within it)
You just add it to the expense line.
Logistics stockpiles atelier x2
Standard stockpiles atelier x3 + thaumaturgy workshop
Void ship upkeep atelier x1
etc
You aren't getting that atelier back but in a sense it's already built and is the cheapest of the upkeep options.
As I recall we have 2 spare upkeep (a third can be argued, as "go slightly over" and "build a new NAO" would both increase upkeep by 1) and the factoryship takes that up. Given that I want to get that soonish so we can have it harvesting asteroids somewhere for deployments elsewhere (even if just other places in the Expanse) so it can help with construction projects we don't have a million void Mosok willing to swim around in Spess just waiting to do. Therefore we'll want to complete at least one, preferably both (and potentially "academy x2, NAO x2, contribute atelier x1" depending on how big of an expansion we're planning) which to me means 'do astrology to see when the cheapest we can build these over the next 5 years is'. The big ship construction shouldn't be a problem - even the fastest estimates for getting the Pillar of Understanding up take 2 turns and it has already been told to me that people have claim on FC time before the 5 turns are up - but unless we're deliberately building the Imperishable Champions or starting another round of SRLF construction smaller jobs at the Gemini Yards or even Temple Forge run the risk of going nontrivially over while we do construction (hence my asking about new academies etc)
By my math it should be fewer than 35 rolled successes
Standardization is 72 sux (71 but I am making the math easier for myself)
Atelier uses are 9 sux each (now 54 sux)
Factory Cathedral triples successes (54 divided by 3 is 18) and provides one automatically so you need 17 rolled successes on DC 20 (you can use astrology to drop this to DC 10 and Bribing Spirits ought to make this an effective DC 5)
I'm tempted to just drop a bucket of AP into this and call it good but Slicktongue administration may save us some effort and the Spirit Gathering Thousand Forges research and construction may make this action yet easier. (Stockpiles would = 1 rolled success in this case)
Cores for Everyone needs 133 and can take 2 Exotic Stockpiles (which is half what Cores for the Eldar get but they do explicitly benefit from elemental support out to ~50% based on what is said in the Elementals tab unlike the Cores for Eldar)
Exotic Stockpiles are worth 15 sux each x2 to bring the sux total to 103 (call it 105 for simplicity)
That is 35 rolled successes, and at DC 30 (same-turn astrology and spirit bribing brings effective DC to 15), but ~40 AP (half Elemental) can do the job. I have questions about this particular project as by the numbers it should benefit from at least 4 Exotic Stockpiles in addition to elemental support but this is one of those projects we've been sitting on for about a century now so things may have changed (including but not limited to repeated legion recruitment drives) so I want to check before we make too many grand assumptions.
Cores for Eldar is 117 sux
Exotic Stockpiles are worth 15 successes and can be done x4, leaving 57 successes to go at DC 30.
That's 19 rolled successes at effectively DC 15 (assuming same turn astrology), so one Factory Cathedral + 21 AP should resolve that (again, slicktongue administration is probably worthwhile here, and I'm curious what a slow-burn "4 AP + Factory Cathedral + Cegorath Exotic Stockpile" would do here). We would also need to do another (smaller IIRC but I'm having trouble tracking down the specific quote) manse-building project to let the Eldar recharge their cores and set up a trade lane between Ophelis & Ulthwe.
If you feel it necessary to include in a policy question in your plans feel free. I am sure that StarJaunter is aware of your concerns and would address them in such a case unless the question was radically different from what I think we're looking at.
Other than potential spore contamination do you have concerns about Ork raids? I am of the opinion that such can be accounted for without great issue (proper preparation via controlling the ground and keeping things concentrated in a smaller area rather than needing to de-spore entire continents, for example) but that picking on just one or two Ork planets at a time will generally stir up the Orks to Waaagh at us, which to a human mind would be a bad thing but to a Dragon King probably looks more like "finally, something interesting happening". We would need to maintain a stronger military (which we should probably do anyway, per StarJaunter's comments from earlier) and we may want to do that 1 AP research into better fungicide recipes to deal with Orks specifically rather than just use the all-purpose stuff (not sure if that's an "immediate" thing or a "get the Alchemy Manse up first" thing) but I'm not seeing much that is really out of our way here.
I don't think we can push the skyremes through the Gate, I believe they won't fit. Better to just have them patrol Tokat as-is (get that 30% presence started) and see if we can have the SRLF patrol the subsector (they can perform better if we're willing to use logistics stockpiles, but they don't need stockpiles in the area. That should give everywhere like a 10% Presence rating or something)
I'm just saying, Gransol Terminus smuggled onto Tanith to set up an underwater/underground civilization is entirely on the table. I bet we can even negotiate to get CCI installed and manses capped if we present ourselves properly (ie 'in reward for virtuous deeds we present the following treaty between the Overfolk and Underfolk' etc, may need some astrology and infiltration to pull off)
Glad you liked that bit.
How much do you insist that it be an atelier manse instead of a Beast of Promethium Refinement? It's more AP to get set up but doesn't take upkeep (and the DC is lower). We also want more than one (Khyral, Tocha, probably Tokat as well) for existing deposits or other intended plasma manses, so doing them as a group makes sense (if we can do them as a group, which I'm hopeful of but not expecting).
F0lkL0re
Officially not an Inquisitor
- Location
- Shetland
I feel that this Pterok has been mentioned in one of your other omakes but I can't find it.
I could swear that a beast of resplendent liquid can't benefit from the presence of promethium deposits and thus can't support as many plasma manses @StarJaunter am I wrong on that front?
Also I would rather use a planets plantations for production of things like red seeds, ebonite, Imidazole, Zarlath honey or firedust then use them for producing plasma fuel when there is no need for it.
You can set them up on a promethium deposit but the cost is exactly the same as setting up a plantation to feed them, it just consume the promethium instead of consuming a plantation site.
Alright locking the vote.
--[X] Jupiter's Prying Manse upgrade (Hidden Vault) (AP Needed: 3 DC: 35. Success Needed: 7) 7 General AP
DC: 35 > 58, 99, 100, 19, 12, 07, 25, Elemental, Auto, Auto
So... you made it so good you actually lost the manse and had to send the Elementals to scour the land until you could find it?
DC: 35 > 58, 99, 100, 19, 12, 07, 25, Elemental, Auto, Auto
So... you made it so good you actually lost the manse and had to send the Elementals to scour the land until you could find it?