Dragon Kings in the 41st Millennia (Exalted/40K Empire)

@StarJaunter, Voidseer gave me an official spoiler question last year that I'm pretty sure I never actually used. I had some questions about potential uses for it:
  1. Can I use it to give the Dragon Kings knowledge about the Dark and Industrial Paths? Probably not full knowledge but at least the fact that they're two different groups and maybe the Autochthonian elements for each Industrial Path?
  2. Can I use it to know where an object crafted by Vaul suitable for his resurrection is?
  3. Can I use it on a gauge of how well/how much of an asshole each resurrected Eldar god would be?
 
Would it be reasonable to use Wyld Questing to answer a question like "where is an Ork-held planet with a Isha-flavored Major Demense near [planet]"?
Yes, but the answer will often be: there isn't. If you widen the scope it will become difficult enough you likely fail, leaving aside the loom of fate
please tell me if my use of astrology is OK? (# slots used, # AP used, wording of Qs) And if the last question about Abaddon is worth asking or will be pointless if we try to defend said Blackstone fortress?
For question 1 and 2 you are over invested, ie you lack the astrological infrastructure to add three ap to a single divination in one turn. For question 5 I would replace next with shortly, although I get the gist. And it's only worth asking if you can do something with that information.
And are you willing to tell us if Tokat's Defense Grid is one of the unfinished projects that will lose successes on Turn 51? That will influence whether I post my omake sooner or later.
I would need more research. Can you tell me what turn it last gained a success and when did it already lose one (I think it lost one already but not position to check)
Warships; 1 turn to design, 1 turn to build the Leeyata Templeship.
Maybe another or Omake to make a component design for a world conquering knell/rally/muster. (Working title). Probably worth having done before you design the ship that uses it. Could also use smaller direction conquering and temple sacking versions
Can I use it to give the Dragon Kings knowledge about the Dark and Industrial Paths? Probably not full knowledge but at least the fact that they're two different groups and maybe the Autochthonian elements for each Industrial Path?
No
Can I use it to know where an object crafted by Vaul suitable for his resurrection
Not on its own, maybe when a temple of vaul is done, but three ap divination is the intent and this is too weak for that
Can I use it on a gauge of how well/how much of an asshole each resurrected Eldar god would be?
For one god per question I would analyze the lore of the god and revise it for a dragon king perspective
 
I would need more research. Can you tell me what turn it last gained a success and when did it already lose one (I think it lost one already but not position to check)
The last time the defence grid was worked on was turn 48 where it rolled both a 1 and a 94 so that was both where it last gained and lost successes.

I've dropped the legions of servants for a Void Kraken Collar of Clockwork Diligence partially because I have faith in Slamu's ability to write but also because I like the idea of having a Void Kraken to set on the Black Legion or local the local Orks.
 
Not on its own, maybe when a temple of vaul is done, but three ap divination is the intent and this is too weak for that
Eh, probably not worth it then. This seems most useful for stuff the Dragon Kings don't know to ask about (like the Leagues of Votann questline I got the go ahead for) or stuff we don't need to know in character to capitalize on/plan for.
Is what's going to attack Ophelis an option?
Might be worth getting a read on Morai Heg or Asuryan. Khaine is, even on the face of it, worse than Amoth was.
 
We presumably aren't trying to build Teteocon this turn, so chipping away at a project lets us be more effective with our dice expenditure than might otherwise be possible. The AP saved this turn can be redirected to other projects, be it completing something that was otherwise marginal or just being an extra Lumina Pact to send to the front.

It is not about Teteocon. It is about how we spend AP. What you call overspending by 1 AP is not wasting dice because it gives us a 70 to 80% chance of finishing a project in a turn. That is 70% to 80% chance of getting a reward.

Putting the minimum in projects is wasting dice because it means we actually make less progress per turn by getting less rewards per turn. It is how we have more than 25 unfinished projects.

Putting 1 AP in a DC 35 project that needs 2 successes will likely take 3 turns to finish. Spending 3 AP gives us a 73% chance of finishing it in 1 turn. That is progress. It is not a real problem that there is a chance we might overspend AP. Getting rewards in a timely manner is what matters, not making sure we never have a chance of overspending AP. Finishing projects is the goal so we get the reward. AP only does something when we get a reward out of it. Chipping away means the AP is doing nothing. When it comes to high AP projects it is unavoidable but that is why we should only do a couple of those at a time.

I hope that helps explain how I do my calculations.

Without Astrology, it would take 27 dice to have a 50% chance of completing it in a turn. Adding 3 more AP increases it to 75%.
 
The last time the defence grid was worked on was turn 48 where it rolled both a 1 and a 94 so that was both where it last gained and lost successes.
So it definitely will not decay in turn 51
like the Leagues of Votann questline
I did have a thought about that. I was thinking you'd arrange to meet the void strider kindred since they are explorers
Is what's going to attack Ophelis an option?
I would prefer you ask where Ophelis is. The map I will post tells you what will be attacking. It's kind of a thing I have been waiting for. Map is at home and I am still camping. At the nightly campfire right now in fact
 
Hm. So I think my top three options are locating Ophelis, meeting a Void Strider or profiling Asuryan as being the easier of the two to resurrect and more politically powerful (and thus able to help or hinder our future divine projects like repealing the Edict, demanding we stop building Most Holy Temples to violate it or demanding we resurrect the Murder God instead of leaving him dead and weaponizable).
Any thoughts gang?
 
I feel like I now have an idea of what the threat that Ophelis is going to face may be now. I would advise meeting a Void Strider. I gives us a meeting with a faction of the squats and potentally opening up additional trade.

As nice as it would be to know now where it is we have projects we can do to figure out where it is right? And Asuryan is going to have to change his policy (and the edict) if he is to have any hope of being revived.
 
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I feel like I now have an idea of what the threat that Ophelis is going to face may be now. I would advise meeting a Void Strider. I gives us a meeting with a faction of the squats and potentally opening up additional trade.
Care to share your theory? I suppose the timing roughly aligns to when the Nids reach the galaxy, which is the main locational threat I can think of.
And Asuryan is going to have to change his policy (and the edict) if he is to have any hope of being revived.
This is somewhat stymied by him being dead and us lacking a suitable Demesne. We can't exactly negotiate before rezzing him.
 
Care to share your theory? I suppose the timing roughly aligns to when the Nids reach the galaxy, which is the main locational threat I can think of.
You pretty much guessed my idea right there.
We can't exactly negotiate before rezzing him.
Well technically we can if we do find a suitable Demesne for him, then most holy and negotiate. We can work on finding a such with our Eldar contacts and divination (probably).
 
Maybe. Since we haven't actually made a Manse Most Holy for a dead god we're just assuming that's viable.
Well even if we did get the profile we would still in all likelyhood be in the exact same situation as before. Ether we have to negotiate after we get contact or we don't nether have any baring on whether we make the most holy temples. As it stands he has no choice but to lift the edict because it will put both him and his under a handicap when there are massive threats to both. The only reasons he put the edict in place to begin with (as far as I know) is so mister bloody hands Kane wouldn't go killing the eldar, and that there was a prophecy that the Eldar would destroy them (which they did through Slaanesh, which largely came to be because of the edict).
 
Well even if we did get the profile we would still in all likelyhood be in the exact same situation as before. Ether we have to negotiate after we get contact or we don't nether have any baring on whether we make the most holy temples. As it stands he has no choice but to lift the edict because it will put both him and his under a handicap when there are massive threats to both. The only reasons he put the edict in place to begin with (as far as I know) is so mister bloody hands Kane wouldn't go killing the eldar, and that there was a prophecy that the Eldar would destroy them (which they did through Slaanesh, which largely came to be because of the edict).
We do have the option of just not resurrecting him though. Which is the main reason I would want such a profile.
Anyway, it's fundamentally your question so @StarJaunter, let's go with the Kindred.
 
We do have the option of just not resurrecting him though
Do you though…
Which is the main reason I would want such a profile.
I will point out that the prejudice you are giving khaine is out of character for the Dragon Kings and that even in his shattered state and believing him a monster the eldar still call upon him in battle. Basically you are thinking too human
let's go with the Kindred.
Cool. As I am not prepared to write much here it will have to wait but the first steps involving traveling to a site a fair distance away and making an autochthonian temple there so you are unlikely to do anything this turn anyway. You may target the leagues of votann with divination if you wish. Maybe start a timing based one to lower the DC in the future.
 
Yes. I mean, theoretically the Eldar could resurrect him with support from their other gods but considering Cego has made precisely zero progress and the scale of such a project without the efficiency boost of DK Geomancy would be difficult for them.
I will point out that the prejudice you are giving khaine is out of character for the Dragon Kings and that even in his shattered state and believing him a monster the eldar still call upon him in battle. Basically you are thinking too human
Considering he committed the equivalent of a Severity 4-5 offense in the murder of Eldenash and conspired to commit another in the form of the murder of the entire Aeldari species I disagree. There's a degree of savagery allowed and expected of gods, but Khaine has established himself as entirely willing to disregard the rules and regulations around that allowance.
He's one third of the one and two thirds gods the Aeldari still have access to and calling on him in battle doesn't risk the genocide that having him up and about does.
 
Hm. So I think my top three options are locating Ophelis, meeting a Void Strider or profiling Asuryan as being the easier of the two to resurrect and more politically powerful (and thus able to help or hinder our future divine projects like repealing the Edict, demanding we stop building Most Holy Temples to violate it or demanding we resurrect the Murder God instead of leaving him dead and weaponizable).
Any thoughts gang?

He's not our Sun God, what we're doing is a favor, if he doesn't like how we're doing things he can descend upon the mortal plane and handle stuff himself.

Star Jaunter, I get that the Asuryan quest line requires a sun going nova. Could you help us contextualize the degree of angst the Dragon Kings are expected to have about that? I presume 'death is a reprieve/chance to do better next time' and 'gods die all the time (sorta), it's a Big Deal but it isn't that kind of Big Deal' are in effect but I don't want to casually suggest that maybe exiled Dragon Bros do a Sun Heresy for the keebs next door either.

Maybe another or Omake to make a component design for a world conquering knell/rally/muster. (Working title). Probably worth having done before you design the ship that uses it. Could also use smaller direction conquering and temple sacking versions

What would you like put in as a Design [Component] vote? "Design [Leeayta Templeship Conquest Module]" or something similar?

Naming ideas;
- World Humbling Cymbala
- Pavilion/Dais of Conquest (basically a raised platform that makes invasion-based planning and coordination more efficient and synergistic, limited by 'how many can physically fit on the platform')
- Gate Breaking Gong (meant in a sort of metaphorical 'walls of Jericho' sort of way)

Artifact thoughts(for when we build an Even More Ideal Workshop manse and can more easily craft great wonders), a swordstick/Grand Macuahuitl that is basically a Dragon King themed Daiklave of Conquest usable only by someone Leeayta herself has given permission to use (generally a graduate of her 'succeed or die' training program, but presumably a theoretical godblooded or ochilike would likewise be an authorized user) that helps suppress chaff (constant difficult rout checks, success means fighting at a stiff penalty), inspire allies in sight of a very holy sword (probably less useful for Dragon Kings than mortals but +1 dot in Valor still matters) and is generally a very good blessed weapon to hit Chaos Terminator formations with. Helps promote a Strategos to Hero+ Unit like Final Hymn of Judgement.

Yes, but the answer will often be: there isn't. If you widen the scope it will become difficult enough you likely fail, leaving aside the loom of fate

So something like 'where is an Ork-held world with 5 or more Major Solar Manses' would be viable, but something as specific as 'devoted to X god' is going to be Very Difficult as a starting bid and probably gets more difficult with little incentive?

I've dropped the legions of servants for a Void Kraken Collar of Clockwork Diligence partially because I have faith in Slamu's ability to write but also because I like the idea of having a Void Kraken to set on the Black Legion or local the local Orks.

"Aquila Control, be advised we're riding a Void Kraken so-"
"You what!?"
"We're riding a Void Kraken, we want to kill Black Legion ships faster."

It is not about Teteocon. It is about how we spend AP. What you call overspending by 1 AP is not wasting dice because it gives us a 70 to 80% chance of finishing a project in a turn. That is 70% to 80% chance of getting a reward.

Putting the minimum in projects is wasting dice because it means we actually make less progress per turn by getting less rewards per turn. It is how we have more than 25 unfinished projects.

Putting 1 AP in a DC 35 project that needs 2 successes will likely take 3 turns to finish. Spending 3 AP gives us a 73% chance of finishing it in 1 turn. That is progress. It is not a real problem that there is a chance we might overspend AP. Getting rewards in a timely manner is what matters, not making sure we never have a chance of overspending AP. Finishing projects is the goal so we get the reward. AP only does something when we get a reward out of it. Chipping away means the AP is doing nothing. When it comes to high AP projects it is unavoidable but that is why we should only do a couple of those at a time.

We don't need the Lion Dogs finished next turn. Overcommitting resources means less work is being done in total, whereas ensuring efficient use of our AP to chip away at problems means both making progress on projects that honestly are ancillary to our needs (I don't place a great priority towards the Navigators project, for instance, but it's useful enough to invest a little in and gives the Cracking Bone path-ists something helpful to do) and should for some reason we need to RUSH it soon it's easier to scare up the AP for 10 successes than 20+.

Lion Dogs will be important for Teteocon. We want to build the celestial city for certain, but before we do so we need to get other projects done, such as expanding our Adamant supply enough to actually, y'know, build the great dome. Spending 3 AP in one turn when 2 AP over two turns isn't automatically the best solution, sometimes it's just wasteful. Sometimes projects are started that aren't as important anymore; while I don't mind if the Defense Grid project is completed it was begun during a period of fortification for an attack by Orks that turned out to be a non-event. Sometimes we have partial projects because omake writers are putting words on paper to further projects they'd like to see completed that haven't been a priority for most voters (the Beasts of Resplendent Liquids research) or are rewards for stories they just wanted to see out there (the Skyweavers Training facilities).

Partially completed projects aren't a fail state. They're partially completed projects.


Tangentially related, how do you feel about helping with a project to make a bunch of Major Geomantic Manses to dedicate to things like 'forecast a quarter-century out for the best time to build X facilities' and 'trade astrologer-hours to the Eldar for help in cracking Y research project'? Planning our infrastructure work in advance feels like the responsible way to make good use of our AP in general.


I will point out that the prejudice you are giving khaine is out of character for the Dragon Kings and that even in his shattered state and believing him a monster the eldar still call upon him in battle. Basically you are thinking too human

I get the feeling that it's at least as much 'desperate times call for desperate measures' so much as it is unavoidable; if you walk a warlike Path you invoke Khaine the Bloody-Handed in some respect (or you go full murder-clown).
 
Could you help us contextualize the degree of angst the Dragon Kings are expected to have about that?
None, as long as you are not killing the stars yourself.
So something like 'where is an Ork-held world with 5 or more Major Solar Manses' would be viable, but something as specific as 'devoted to X god' is going to be Very Difficult as a starting bid and probably gets more difficult with little incentive?
That is not a correct extrapolation I think.

A world with rare phenomena that also has orks is even rarer. Searching for it within a certain volume is possible but being rare means a good chance that volume has nothing. Increasing volume to whole galaxy means you cannot succeed the dice rolls involved.

Ie; saying "ork held planet with five solar manses" is not sufficient for an astrological profile
 
Naming ideas;
- World Humbling Cymbala
- Pavilion/Dais of Conquest (basically a raised platform that makes invasion-based planning and coordination more efficient and synergistic, limited by 'how many can physically fit on the platform')
- Gate Breaking Gong (meant in a sort of metaphorical 'walls of Jericho' sort of way)
I like "Pavilion of Conquest" it just sounds right to me.
 
Question:

Don't we need to spend 5 AP to keep Nysela, Little Beam, and Final Hymn around during turn 50? I forgot it in my plan, not sure if anyone else is doing it.
 
That is not a correct extrapolation I think.

A world with rare phenomena that also has orks is even rarer. Searching for it within a certain volume is possible but being rare means a good chance that volume has nothing. Increasing volume to whole galaxy means you cannot succeed the dice rolls involved.

Ie; saying "ork held planet with five solar manses" is not sufficient for an astrological profile
That sounds like a Conjunction Fallacy. It sounds like our best option for using divination (whether Astrological or Wyld) to find useful planets is a binary search algorithm for "does this region of space have a planet with notable resources (Celestial Demesne, Aberrant (Karmic, Wyld, Eldar, Ork etc) Demesne, Magic Materials, etc)" and then reducing the size of both the region and the list of valid qualifiers until we actually know what specifically it has. At which point it would likely be easier to just scan the region with our observatories and maybe run some general astronomical divinations on those Star charts or straight up send scout ships.
 
Yes, divination is an amazing tool for information gathering but not meant to be the only arrow in your quiver, especially when the part of your population that is best at divinations is also the one who most wants to go explore the galaxy and personally experience adventures (so they can write about them when they get home)
 
Would a valid divination request be "where is somewhere that would be a fun yet reasonably dangerous place within x volume" or something to that effect
 
You literally have three of those purchased from the Eldar which have not been exploited.


Ie it's a more eldar way of divination, or vision questing maybe. Not astrological divination.

Astrological divination might let you search for anomalies or special events on a known planet but not "find a planet with an anomaly"
 
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