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Crystalwatcher's Magical Girl Quest!

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Naron said:
"Back and forth" implies that the lines have not really changed all that much. Honestly, with everything I heard of the matter, I think of it like the trench warfare in WW1; a mile forward, enemy rallies, one and a half miles backward, pushing again, back to how it started, pushing further, etc. Only not for a year or so, but for much longer.

Which is also supported by the fact only Hope and Reluxus apparently changed hands since this war started.
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My understanding of the war's history is that major shifts only really happen when someone new throws their lot in, and things get messed up until they settle into a new equilibrium. Last big change before Humans would've been... The elves? Yeah I think it was the elves.
 
LostDeviljho said:
Reminder: those choices were timeline options.
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Naron said:
Were they?
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Yeah, they were. WOG in two separate instances is that Eternal Darkness is either "a few months from now" or "several years from now". WOG is also that in the United Front option, we could have been one of Goddesses Four. First post was apparently deliberately non-indicative of the actual choice.
LostDeviljho said:
My understanding of the war's history is that major shifts only really happen when someone new throws their lot in, and things get messed up until they settle into a new equilibrium. Last big change before Humans would've been... The elves? Yeah I think it was the elves.
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Actually, it were the Children of Nightmare.

Here's a quote from Formless Gear:
Crystalwatcher said:
You were here for a very specific thing though: Weapon Research. The war between the Unified Darkness and the Unified Light had been going on throughout the Local Dimensional Cluster for nearly eight thousand years. Originally started by the Fairy Home Realms and Dark Star over the Fairies wanting all races to live in harmony and peace, and Dark Star wanting the strong to rule the weak with lots of blood and chaos mixed in. This inevitably led to the two polities declaring war on each other and starting the whole thing off.

Hell heard that shit was going down, and after a bit of poking into the sudden conflict, had joined in on the orgy of destruction with gusto on the side of Dark Star, the idea of ruling everything else just because they had a bigger stick appealing to the rulership at the time. Heaven, being well... Heaven, had leapt in on the side of the Fairies in order to try and keep their nemesis in check. Everything spiraled out of control though when the largest faction at the time joined in on the mess: the Elvin Empire.

With the Elf Legions sweeping onto the battlefield in hilarious numbers the Unified Light had damn near steamrolled the Unified Darkness. Individual Elves were rather weak, their magic subpar, and technology was nothing compared to Heaven, but they fielded armies in the hundreds of thousands. A tide of steel and flesh, an Elven invasion was compared to tidal waves.

But with the seeming inevitable defeat of the Unified Darkness, Hell was contacted by a previously unknown group: the Children of Nightmare. No one's sure what exactly they want but they had joined the Unified Darkness, and fielded... things, that had almost collectively crushed the Unified Light's advance.

The tide's sudden change had almost spelled the end of the Unified Light up until a Demon commander had fucked up.

He got the genius idea to invade Earth that had only recently discovered that yes, magic is a thing, and colonized an unclaimed dimension. The event was known as the Second Fall of Rome to Earth. To the rest of the LDC it was known as the Moment of Fury.

A single battle, and deployment of a single weapon had erased a Demonic Fortress, and an entire Legion from existence. A smoking radioactive crater was all that was left of the Seventh Duke's holdings. So, with the Akashic Pillar's entry into the War the whole thing ground to a stalemate. The Unified Light didn't have the forces to push back the Unified Darkness, but if the Darkness tried to force their way past Earth they'd more than likely leave themselves open to another Nuke up their asses.
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As you can see, the initial conflict (Fairies vs Dark Star) and the first major allies (Angels vs Demons) seemed to be very much concurrent with their counterparts.
Then Elves joined the UL, and provided their own Quantity to counter Demon rank and file, turning the tide in favor of Unified Light.
Then Children of Nightmare happened, with (presumably) Greater Nightmares serving as invincible tidebreakers against the Elves.

And that's when a Demon commander had fucked up and riled up the Earthlings.
 
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veekie said:
To be fair to the decisionmaker, nobody except Gaia knew what kind of shitstorm was in that bottle
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He was motivated by greed and decided to pillage the previously-neutral faction. Read, for no good reason, no matter the results.

And I'm lamenting that this isn't the situation where I can use the "Justifications only matter to the just" phrase here - though had he been successful, it would have been a decent rebuke.
 
Faraway-R said:
He was motivated by greed and decided to pillage the previously-neutral faction. Read, for no good reason, no matter the results.

And I'm lamenting that this isn't the situation where I can use the "Justifications only matter to the just" phrase here - though had he been successful, it would have been a decent rebuke.
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Oh, pillaging is pretty much standard practice for them. It usually works too.
Just that when it doesn't work....it usually doesn't cock up this big.
 
Iirc pillaging was a side note to the fact that Earth is in the tactically advantageous position of being literally the middle of the LDC.
 
LostDeviljho said:
Iirc pillaging was a side note to the fact that Earth is in the tactically advantageous position of being literally the middle of the LDC.
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If it was the advantageous location that was the driving reason... Then it's no wonder loss of Reluxus Gate has more or less crippled the UL war effort, what with it being just off-side to said "literally the middle of the LDC". It's just a step short from being just as important.
 
In an unrelated, totally unprompted, topic;

We know that demons are born from the energy of broken promises. We also know that angels can't generate demons when they break a promise. What happens to that energy if an Angel breaks promises? There should be a hefty amount because angels take their promises seriously. Does it make them fall?
 
kelllogo said:
In an unrelated, totally unprompted, topic;

We know that demons are born from the energy of broken promises. We also know that angels can't generate demons when they break a promise. What happens to that energy if an Angel breaks promises? There should be a hefty amount because angels take their promises seriously. Does it make them fall?
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Omg someone noticed.
 
Crystalwatcher said:
Omg someone noticed.
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In some ways we are discouraged from noticing things like this.

I remember getting a response of "spoilers" when wondering what happens to a demon when the broken promise it was born from gets unbroken (simplest example is a soldier promising to come home alive, dying in battle, and then a year or so later getting resurrected and coming home).
 
Naron said:
Does not mean one can not see it as stupid how this has been going on for millennia, with even the borders not changing in the slightest before humanity joined in. All those that died during that time basically just preserved the status quo, nothing else.
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"Preserved the status quo" for a soldier of the unified light means "My people are not enslaved by the Unified Darkness for shit and giggles".
It's not stupid, it's the sacrifice they made to protect their loved one.
It's tragic that more sacrifice are needed, and if something could be done to stop the pain it would be and insult to them to not take it, but they didn't die to maintain the war in it's cruel state.
If someone fights to protect their family and fails, it doesn't mean his fight was stupid, simply futile.
The question is, "If you could have made peace, the fighting would be stupid", and this is true....the problem is that UD doesn't "understand" the concept of "So many people died for nothing": weak people die for the strong ones, if so many UD soldiers died, it was just to make the UD stronger, and therefore it's right.
So peace with UD it's impossible, because it implies there is an "equal" and UD quite literally refuses the concept of "equal".
I'm fairly curious how the UD maintain a steady amount of cannon fodder under these conditions, peer pressure? Lack of information about the other side? Propaganda? Something to explore, i must say.(My curiosity for it's just under the brainwashing situation of the people under Red, especially Grey).

The position of the Magical Girl in the interlude is understandable, but it's not wisdom,just the point of view of a person hurt by the war.
She believes the war to the horrible, yet she doesn't how to stop it, so prefers to hide from it because it's too painful.
It's a naive and selfish judgment born from just being so tired of seeing people die.
But she can make such judgment because she has nothing to protect, nor something to lose.
It's not different from what Goddess White,that ran from everything because reality is so mind-shattering painful.(And she could do so because she knew Gold wouldn't have died, strong as she is, or she would have never left the battlefield to condemn another of the sisters to death)
It's understandable in from of such destruction, but this doesn't make it less selfish and naive.(Not because she doesn't fight, but because she insult all the sacrifices made in this war to shield herself from the pain,while accepting the status quo she so hates).
An interesting and flawed character, i must say, it would be interesting to see how she deals with the realities of the war.

By the way, does someone knows the Rules of Engagement of the Unified Light?
Meaning, does the UL attack civilians targets willy nilly and don't care about civilians casualties?Or it's only the UD doing the whole "murdering civilians for shit and giggles" like Sega can attest

Crystalwatcher said:
Omg someone noticed.
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Fine!
Guys, switch plan 32 "Gabriel Battle Plan"" for Backup plan 86 "Fallen Angel Gabriel counter-measures", and let's have nearby plan 87 "Angel-Demon hybrid purification rite".
87, not 78 "Red, the eternal guilt trip".
I would implement the protocol Neptunia "Gehaburn them, and let Madokami sort them out" but personally i don't think it's ready, too little bloodshed? Too little bloodshed.
You will be notified when the Protocol N is corrected.
 
InfiniteDaze said:
That's true.

Then I remember the Elven Empire and hoo boy. Humanity might be at war with them maybe a decade or two after the Great War because they have a tendency to tick off the.... Empire tropes.
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eh, that'd be messy. quite a few MGs are now used to fighting alongside them and have friends among them.

if such a war happens, the elves are likely to have more MGs on their side than the UD.
 
Mellithae said:
I'm sorry what.

Where did we learn this?

(The second sentence)
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Demons can't generate more demons. I assumed that because they were exempt from demon-generating mechanics they were also removed from the Angel process, the two entities are rather opposed. So by symmetry Angels shouldn't make heaven nor hell with their actions.

On the other hand Angels treat promises solemnly, maybe it makes Demons after all...
 
kelllogo said:
Demons can't generate more demons. I assumed that because they were exempt from demon-generating mechanics they were also removed from the Angel process, the two entities are rather opposed. So by symmetry Angels shouldn't make heaven nor hell with their actions.

On the other hand Angels treat promises solemnly, maybe it makes Demons after all...
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I mean, there's that omake of demons praying and it making an angel that crys said this about:
Crystalwatcher said:
Yes. It Has happened. Though not quite like that.

In other news: more world building!

Demons cannot actually go into Heaven. Heaven is a dimension defined as pure light and hope, and thus hyper lethal against demons. If they tried to outright invade Heaven, whatever force they sent in through the gates would more or less spontaneously combust as soon as they walk through them and turn to ash in a few pico-seconds. The Cherubs that have to sweep this shit up would not be amused.

It also works the other way as well. Angels are outright incapable of entering into Hell, and if they tried they'd (again) burn to ash in a few pico-seconds. It's this primary problem that was the main cause of Heaven and Hell being stuck in a functionally eternal war between one another until they joined in on the Eternal War.

Other Races can enter into either dimension freely, thus meaning that both are under threat of actually being attacked in the first time since their forming.

This all makes it really awkward for the Half-Angel Half-Demon hybrids because they get the rather unique situation of not being able to enter either. That, and the fantastic racism inherent between the two sides would lead to their parents being hunted down and slaughtered like cattle, so they're almost all collectively traumatized in one way or another.
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InfiniteDaze said:
That's true.

Then I remember the Elven Empire and hoo boy. Humanity might be at war with them maybe a decade or two after the Great War because they have a tendency to tick off the.... Empire tropes.
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Nah. We're at the very least getting one dimension, slightly abused (Hope) to our name, to play around with. We're also probably getting the know-how for their food and infrastructure based solutions, since they're so very good at those. In other words, both the "too little space" and "everybody needs to eat" issues are solved. There's other natural resources, but I kinda hope that it's also something the elves have figured out, be it materialization or whatever.

Also, there's an entire half-a-LDC for the Unified Light to expand into, that is 12 subsidiary dimensions of Thirteenth Hell, two or three subsidiary dimensions of Dark Star, and of course there's the SPAAAAACE! solution.
 
Faraway-R said:
Also, there's an entire half-a-LDC for the Unified Light to expand into, that is 12 subsidiary dimensions of Thirteenth Hell, two or three subsidiary dimensions of Dark Star, and of course there's the SPAAAAACE! solution.
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This is one I'm actually interested in and one I could see the Akashic Pillar investigating even before the war is over. Most teleportation spells and such seem to be either for short planetary distances or across dimensions. We haven't really seen much suitable to for rapidly and easily traveling to the moon.

Yet the various bits of magitech we've seen would actually make setting up a moon base fairly easy for humanity. Since no one else has the same technological base as us building rockets and the like to travel to the moon would be more or less impossible.

So it is quite possible that a moonbase could act as an unassailable fortress from which supplies could be safely produced and shipped down to Earth with no concern for attacks by the Unified Darkness.
 
I'm thinking that magitech can relatively easily solve most of the hurdles of space exploration - namely lack of resources, space radiation, waste disposal, and high liftoff cost. The last difficulty I can easily name is the distances involved, though.

That said, assuming that Dimension Hop will allow the Demons to target the moonbase as a valid destination point, I don't think that it would be unassailable. I mean, reportedly the anti-dimension-crossing wards are reliant on there being long-established settlements in the vicinity, as in "Americas don't count" long-established, which is like 300-500 years depending on things.
 
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