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Attempting to Subvert the Plan: Dominion Edition

Retcon: Should General Horner (the MC) have been The Magistrate (Starcraft 1 PC)?

  • Yes

    Votes: 35 43.8%

  • No

    Votes: 29 36.3%

  • This does not matter to me

    Votes: 16 20.0%
  • Total voters
    80
  • Poll closed .
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The Laurent said:
I was tempted by that, but I will note that this will leave us with a somewhat precarious financial situation in Personal... but we also have the Budget meeting coming up, and the QM mentioned that Personal Budget stuff might also come up as a choice, so hm. I will note if we do 3 dice each for them, that's total expenses of 75 F, so we'd have to do five dice and pick one of them to put two dice on if we did that.

We should go on Anydice for this stuff, tbh. Hmm. Is an 80% chance enough for the Union stuff... with Omakes to potentially save our bacon?
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[] Vardona: Vardonaville Import-Export Company [NEW]
(Adds one Personal die) (Reduces some Personal DCs)
(DC 80 to avoid +10 Paranoia, -15F per die) (-5F per-turn upkeep)

2 dice, 30F - 73.72%, 83.47% with omake
3 dice, 45F - 94.53%, 97.38 with omake

[] Nephor II: Worker Aid Centers [NEW]
(Adds one Personal die) (+1 Relations with Industrial Workers' Trust)
(DC 80 to avoid +10 Paranoia, -10F per die) (-5F per-turn upkeep)

2 dice, 20F - 80.47%, 88.72% with omake
3 dice, 30F - 97.38%, 99.01% with omake
 
Did some tweaking to dice allocations, but the original was already pretty good.


[] Plan Shipyards, Vespene, Regreening and Statistics
-[] Infrastructure (6/6 dice +2 Free Dice, 60 R)
--[] Korhal: Capital City Augustgrad (Phase 2) [MANDATORY] 169/400 (1 dice, 5 R)
--[] Brontes: Orbital Cleanup (Phase 2) [Reconstruction] 106/300 (2 dice, 30 R)
--[] Nephor II: Planetary Reconstruction (Phase 2) [Reconstruction] 214/500 (4 dice, 20 R)
--[] Fringe Worlds: Supply Bunker Construction (Phase 1) 36/100 (1 dice, 5 R)
-[] Heavy Industry (5/5 dice +1 Free Dice, 90R)
--[] Dylar IV: Dylarian Shipyards (Phase 1) [Reconstruction] 214/500 (6 dice, 90 R)
-[] Light Industry (5/5 dice, 25R)
--[] Vardona: Vespene Extraction Operations (Phase 1) 375/500 (3 dice, 15 R)
--[] Tyrador IX: Refugee Workshops (Phase 2) [Reconstruction] 63/400 (2 dice, 10 R)
-[] Environmental (5/5 dice, 45R)
--[] Korhal: Regreening Effort (Phase 1) 30/100 (2 dice, 10 R)
--[] Tyrador IX: Establish Farmsteads (Phase 2) [Reconstruction] 198/400, (3 dice, 15 R)
-[] Services (5/5 dice, 75R)
--[] Vardona: Angustia Orbital Shipyard Complex (Phase 1) 191/400 (5 dice, 75 R)
-[] Military (6/6 dice, 30R)
--[] Korhal: Fort Romulus Lunar Garrison 143/300 (5 dice, 25 R)
--[] Vardona: Treasury Reserve Site Alpha [TRUST] [NEW] 0/300 (1 dice, 5 R)
-[] Research (5/5 dice, 75R)
--[] New Model Weaponry (Phase 2) [Tech] [NEW] 0/250 (5 dice, 75 R)
-[] Bureaucracy (5/5 dice, 30R)
--[] Re-Establish the Bureau of Planning and Statistics 36/200 (3 dice, 15 R)
--[] Services/Administration/Logistics/Operations Mechanization Endeavor 0/300 (1 dice, 10 R)
--[] Establish the Office of the Inspector-General 0/200 (1 dice, 5 R)
-[] Personal (4/4 + 1 Free, 45 F)
--[] Nephor II: Worker Aid Centers [NEW] DC 80 (3 dice, 30 F)
--[] Raynor's Raiders: "Lose" Military Surplus DC 60 (2 dice, 20 F)
 
A general reminder (not that anyone has needed it so far, I think) to check out the Plan Guidelines post under Informational if you intend to write up a plan proposal.
 
The Laurent said:
Honestly I think even more than R, the big resource we should be worrying about is Paranoia. Bureaucracy is, as I noted, a potentially Quest-ending time-bomb in which there's not even a single action that doesn't involve gaining paranoia.

That means that for future turns, the best possible option would be to concentrate all dice down to a single action, even if that leads to excess over-completion, and then create an Accountability Buddy for each Bureaucracy action. A Paranoia-reducing action to offset it that MUST be completed in the same turn as the Bureaucracy action, in order to end at least *that* as net neutral.
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I want to remind everyone (not primarily you, people in general) that there's actually nothing stopping us from just... not activating Bureaucracy dice. It actively saves us money not to. We can just choose to not have an Inspector General, for instance, and there are arguments for why we shouldn't because we ourselves are relying on some degree of corruption to fulfill our own objectives.

And it saves us the Paranoia.

Crazycryodude said:
First attempt at writing a plan in this system, so I'm just gonna write what I know. Capital goods and resource extraction, it's hard to go wrong with those in any universe. We're desperately short on meat, with at least a 50% population decrease and honestly probably more in reality, so we have to make up for it with metal wherever possible if we want to ride out the next two games worth of major plot events.
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It should be noted that the Dominion also has a huge problem with its population not being very productive workers because of the shitty Confederate educational system. So there are a lot of gains to be realized by training up the workforce alongside of building machinery; the two go together.

-[]Services (5 dice, -2 malus) 55 Resources
--[] The Dominion Health Service (Phase 2): 3/300, 2 dice (10R)
--[] Vardona: Angustia Orbital Shipyard Complex (Phase 1): 191/400, 3 dice (45R)
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I think it might be better to consolidate dice onto the Angustia yards for more chance of success. Three dice don't have great odds here.

-[]Research (4 dice, -2 malus) 55 Resources
--[] Improved Threat-Recognition Protocol, 1 die (10R)
--[] High-Efficiency Conduits: 0/200, 3 dice (45R)
-[]Bureaucracy (5 dice, +8 bonus) 25 Resources
--[] Establish the Office of the Inspector-General: 0/200, 2 dice (10R)
--[] Re-Establish the Bureau of Planning and Statistics: 36/200, 3 dice (15R)
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Paranoia is an issue. Do we even want the Inspector General? Might be better to just... not. Leaving dice inactive is okay.

We may also want to put at least some research into the new guns for -Paranoia.

The Laurent said:
I don't agree, RE: consolidating dice. Dylar II Ponics still has positive effects on our overall food balance and transportation issues, and it's a simple, low-hanging fruit.
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We've got plenty of fruit in Environmental that are cheaper to pick than a 15 R/die space hydroponics project, is all I'm saying.

grimely said:
Yeah, Mengsk eventually sends an expedition to sift through the rubble and start clearing out the Zerg on world. That's probably locked behind completing the Reconstruction actions.
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Yeah. Note how in Brood War, Tarsonis is still full of Zerg; the UED fights its way through them to get to the psi disruptor in their third campaign mission. If Mengsk is working on clearing the Zerg from Tarsonis in Starcraft II, that's years later.
 
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Simon_Jester said:
I want to remind everyone (not primarily you, people in general) that there's actually nothing stopping us from just... not activating Bureaucracy dice. It actively saves us money not to. We can just choose to not have an Inspector General, for instance, and there are arguments for why we shouldn't because we ourselves are relying on some degree of corruption to fulfill our own objectives.

And it saves us the Paranoia.
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In fairness, it does go rather against the proverbial grain to leave dice fallow in plan quests. Probably doesn't help that we picked the Chancellor who specialized in reducing Paranoia. If we went with Dr. Zenobia Aldine, we would have needed to leave dice fallow due to Paranoia much earlier.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Yeah. Note how in Brood War, Tarsonis is still full of Zerg; the UED fights its way through them to get to the psi disruptor in their third campaign mission. If Mengsk is working on clearing the Zerg from Tarsonis in Starcraft II, that's years later.
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Yeah that's like a decade later, though by then he does have it pretty nicely rebuilt. Enough that Raynor is able to do a train heist on Tarsonis.

Hunter531 said:
In fairness, it does go rather against the proverbial grain to leave dice fallow in plan quests. Probably doesn't help that we picked the Chancellor who specialized in reducing Paranoia. If we went with Dr. Zenobia Aldine, we would have needed to leave dice fallow due to Paranoia much earlier.
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Eh, we'd have probably gotten a bunch of mad science options in Research and Valerian options in Personal to tamp it down that Chuck doesn't have access to.

Anyway.

I went a bit insane.

I crunched the numbers, I checked the odds, and I have realized something incredibly funny about Personal this turn.

First, a breakdown of Laurent's plan.

Laurent's Plan, 45F: +1 Personal die, +1 Relations with IWT, unlocks military Personal projects
[] Nephor II: Worker Aid Centers [NEW]
(Adds one Personal die) (+1 Relations with Industrial Workers' Trust)
(DC 80 to avoid +10 Paranoia, -10F per die) (-5F per-turn upkeep)

3 dice, 30F - 97.38%, 99.01% with omake - if Chuck passes On the Job Training 98.16%, 99.40% with omake

[] Korhal: Go Drinking with Colonel de Santo DC 60
(Unlocks military-related Personal projects upon completion)
(DC 60 to avoid +10 Paranoia, -5F per die)

3 dice, 15F - 95.63%, 98.04% with omake - if Chuck passes On the Job Training 96.75%, 98.68% with omake


Then, a breakdown of my plan.

Grimely's Plan, 60F: +1 Personal die, reduces some Personal DCs, unlocks security Personal projects
[] Vardona: Vardonaville Import-Export Company [NEW]
(Adds one Personal die) (Reduces some Personal DCs)
(DC 80 to avoid +10 Paranoia, -15F per die) (-5F per-turn upkeep)

3 dice, 45F - 94.53%, 97.38% with omake - if Chuck passes On the Job Training 95.83%, 98.16% with omake

[] Vardona: Have a Talk with Director Starke DC80
(Unlocks security-related Personal projects upon completion)
(DC 80 to avoid +10 Paranoia, -5F per die)

3 dice, 15F - 94.53%, 97.38% with omake - if Chuck passes On the Job Training 95.83%, 98.16% with omake


Finally, an exploratory plan where we take both Im-Ex and Worker Aid. Note that we cannot afford to spend 3 and 3 dice, one has to make do with only 2.

Both, 65F or 60F: +2 Personal Dice, reduces some Personal DCs, +1 Relations with the IWT
[] Vardona: Vardonaville Import-Export Company [NEW]
(Adds one Personal die) (Reduces some Personal DCs)
(DC 80 to avoid +10 Paranoia, -15F per die) (-5F per-turn upkeep)

2 dice, 30F - 73.72%, 83.47% with omake - if Chuck passes On the Job Training 76.54%, 85.69% with omake
or
3 dice, 45F - 94.53%, 97.38% with omake - if Chuck passes On the Job Training 95.83%, 98.16% with omake

[] Nephor II: Worker Aid Centers [NEW]
(Adds one Personal die) (+1 Relations with Industrial Workers' Trust)
(DC 80 to avoid +10 Paranoia, -10F per die) (-5F per-turn upkeep)

2 dice, 20F - 80.47%, 88.72% with omake - if Chuck passes On the Job Training 82.89%, 90.54% with omake
or
3 dice, 30F - 97.38%, 99.01% with omake - if Chuck passes On the Job Training 98.16%, 99.40% with omake


But then I thought... What if both had 2?

Memes, 50F: +2 Personal Dice, reduces some Personal DCs, +1 Relations with the IWT
[] Vardona: Vardonaville Import-Export Company [NEW]
(Adds one Personal die) (Reduces some Personal DCs)
(DC 80 to avoid +10 Paranoia, -15F per die) (-5F per-turn upkeep)

2 dice, 30F - 73.72%, 83.47% with omake - if Chuck passes On the Job Training 76.54%, 85.69% with omake

[] Nephor II: Worker Aid Centers [NEW]
(Adds one Personal die) (+1 Relations with Industrial Workers' Trust)
(DC 80 to avoid +10 Paranoia, -10F per die) (-5F per-turn upkeep)

2 dice, 20F - 80.47%, 88.72% with omake - if Chuck passes On the Job Training 82.89%, 90.54% with omake

This leaves 2 dice and 20F spare. We could then do ONE of the following with a reasonable chance of success.

DC40s - 90.97%, 96.22% with omake - if Chuck passes On the Job Training 92.59%, 97.24% with omake
[] Deadman's Rock: Make Friends and Influence People [NEW] - +3 Mira

DC60s - 80.47%, 88.72% with omake - if Chuck passes On the Job Training 82.89%, 90.54% with omake
[] Raynor's Raiders: "Lose" Military Surplus - +1 Raynor
[] Deadman's Rock: Buy an Orbital Station [NEW] - +1 Mira, unlocks Mercenary actions
[] Korhal: Go Drinking with Colonel de Santo - unlocks military projects

DC80s - 73.72%, 83.47% with omake - if Chuck passes On the Job Training 76.54%, 85.69% with omake
[] Vardona: Have a Talk with Director Starke - unlocks security projects
 
grimely said:
Yeah that's like a decade later, though by then he does have it pretty nicely rebuilt. Enough that Raynor is able to do a train heist on Tarsonis.
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Though I think part of that is just that the Terran Confederacy/Dominion actually has very bonkers industrial capacity.

The Confederacy never used its workforce efficiently because the point was always to keep a relatively effete oligarchy on top of the heap through monopoly on high-tech weaponry and the handful of industrial things that actually worked (like SCV production).

The Dominion starts out with a lot of people and infrastructure dead but is still sufficiently equipped to put up a good fight against the UED expeditionary force; there's a reason the UED is actively trying to recruit or steal Dominion military capabilities in the opening phase of its campaign. The UED wins in large part through decapitation and seemingly does not exterminate large slices of the Dominion population, plus they wind up pretty quickly charging off to subdue the Zerg and leaving Mengsk alive in their wake. And much of the actual fighting in the later phases of the Brood War takes place well outside Terran space on worlds like Shakuras, Char, Braxis, Aiur, and so on.
 
You know now that the update mentioned it, I could see the sons logo with a hand holding a whip. Previously I thought it was just an arm trying to do a fist because HUMANITY strong.

It sucks that we got paranoia from trust but it looks like being an actual army means we have cover to recruit and as a personal action we can build an auxiliary force and hand out training and guns to people that hopefully will be interested in overthrowing mengsk.
 
I really am quite anxious to take the personal for Fringe World supply diversion. In light of how many people we've already lost and the general draw-back from the periphery it feels like the action with the shortest expiration date in that category.
 
So I am much more interested in giving supplies to the independent settlements of the fringe worlds at this juncture. I do think, in the future, us aiding Raynor's Raiders a bit also makes sense, but to me, giving supplies to the actual Fringe Worlds makes a bit more sense as an 'immediate' action. Honestly if we combine the Fringe World bunker building with the Fringe Worlds loosing supplies then story wise the flow makes sense.

From a mechanical standpoint the DC for not having Paranoia is low enough that we probably could reach it with two dice.
 
HeruKane said:
So I am much more interested in giving supplies to the independent settlements of the fringe worlds at this juncture. I do think, in the future, us aiding Raynor's Raiders a bit also makes sense, but to me, giving supplies to the actual Fringe Worlds makes a bit more sense as an 'immediate' action. Honestly if we combine the Fringe World bunker building with the Fringe Worlds loosing supplies then story wise the flow makes sense.

From a mechanical standpoint the DC for not having Paranoia is low enough that we probably could reach it with two dice.
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That's not an invalid point, really. I feel like the extra dice might be more valuable to allow more of that in the long term, but it is true that it's a very important action and one that's easy to neglect. One could combine the three dice on workers' centers with two dice for Fringe World Supplies to get +1 into two categories while also still getting an extra die.
 
Yeah I like when options chosen also have story connection. Its not just us picking the most mechanical optimal route its us doing so in a character driven way.

Speaking of that, and as an aside, I was thinking about the Inspector General - I don't know if we would actually go that route, at least not at this time, and not with some cavet that if we do it than its not corrupt. Which yes, I know, is totally a hypocritical position but well welcome to StarCraft. haha

I'm not sure at this point about the Worker Aid Centers, but I do like it more than us trying to legalize them, which I feel is a big red flag to Mensgk.

Us buying an orbital station on Deadman's Rock does sound nifty as a future potential element though.

Soo many options and still not sure which one I would want to go with for the next turn.
 
HeruKane said:
Yeah I like when options chosen also have story connection. Its not just us picking the most mechanical optimal route its us doing so in a character driven way.

Speaking of that, and as an aside, I was thinking about the Inspector General - I don't know if we would actually go that route, at least not at this time, and not with some cavet that if we do it than its not corrupt. Which yes, I know, is totally a hypocritical position but well welcome to StarCraft. haha

I'm not sure at this point about the Worker Aid Centers, but I do like it more than us trying to legalize them, which I feel is a big red flag to Mensgk.

Us buying an orbital station on Deadman's Rock does sound nifty as a future potential element though.

Soo many options and still not sure which one I would want to go with for the next turn.
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I mean, we probably SHOULD eventually try to legalize them, but only when we have four dice free to put on them so that we can eat the +10 Paranoia that's guaranteed as just the cost of doing business and know we're unlikely to miss passing the 120 DC check for getting another +10 Paranoia and thus can do it safely. Which is to say that it's not something we can really do this turn or next turn.
 
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I do think that arming the Raynor's Raiders is also an important action. Jimmy boy is good at his job, and in deep with the 'toss. The sooner he's a major faction again the better we'll be. Plus, depending on how evil Kerrigan is feeling today he might be useful there as well.
 
[] Plan Trust Us Mengsk, This Dagger Is Just For Measuring Your Back w/ Statplans and Personal Fringe Benefits.
-[] Infrastructure (6/6 dice, 30 R)
--[] Korhal: Capital City Augustgrad (Phase 2) [MANDATORY] 169/400 (1 dice, 5 R)
--[] Nephor II: Planetary Reconstruction (Phase 2) [Reconstruction] 214/500 (4 dice, 20 R)
--[] Fringe Worlds: Supply Bunker Construction (Phase 1) 36/100 (1 dice, 5 R)
-[] Heavy Industry (5/5 dice + 2 Free Dice, 90R)
--[] Dylar IV: Dylarian Shipyards (Phase 1) [Reconstruction] 214/500 (7 dice, 105 R)
-[] Light Industry (5/5 dice, 25R)
--[] Vardona: Vespene Extraction Operations (Phase 1) 375/500 (3 dice, 15 R)
--[] Tyrador IX: Refugee Workshops (Phase 2) [Reconstruction] 63/400 (2 dice, 10 R)
-[] Environmental (5/5 dice, 45R)
--[] Korhal: Regreening Effort (Phase 1) 30/100 (1 dice, 5 R)
--[] Tyrador IX: Establish Farmsteads (Phase 2) [Reconstruction] 198/400, (2 dice, 10 R)
-- [] Dylar IV: Orbital Hydroponics 0/100 (2 dice, 30 R)
-[] Services (5/5 dice, 75R)
--[] Vardona: Angustia Orbital Shipyard Complex (Phase 1) 191/400 (5 dice, 75 R)
-[] Military (6/6 dice, 30R)
--[] Korhal: Fort Romulus Lunar Garrison 143/300 (5 dice, 25 R)
--[] Vardona: Treasury Reserve Site Alpha [TRUST] [NEW] 0/300 (1 dice, 5 R)
-[] Research (5/5 dice + 1 Free Dice, 90R)
--[] New Model Weaponry (Phase 2) [Tech] [NEW] 0/250 (6 dice, 90 R)
-[] Bureaucracy (5/5 dice, 25R)
--[] Re-Establish the Bureau of Planning and Statistics 36/200 (5 dice, 25R)
-[] Personal (4/4 + 1 Free, 45 F)
--[] Raynor's Raiders: "Lose" Military Surplus DC 60 (3 dice , 30 F)
--[] Fringe Worlds: Divert Supplies to Independent Settlements DC 40 (2 dice, 30 F)

Made a few changes to @the Laurent's plan. The need for PlanStats has been already talked about enough that I don't have much more to add, except that such information will be extremely useful in figuring out what we want from the upcoming poker game. Don't want to make heavy Service commitments if our health system is in desperate need of fixing for example.

I've tried to compensate somewhat for the increased Paranoia by moving one free die from Bunkers (one die still gives us a 60% chance of success with an omake and Smith turning nat 1's into 100's) and another from personal and placed them on New Model and Dylarian. The free point of Leverage we got from "Fool's Flush", and the 39.5% chance of getting at least one Paranoia reducing nat 100 should help as well.

Now for the Personals. The reason I didn't go for De Santo is simple. We already have enough projects on the personal agenda that I don't really see the need to add more. I mean, we have relationships with three separate groups, and our current closest is only 2/20. I think that we should go a bit deeper, get more benefits from the relationships we already have, before trying to spread out wide.

Now for the most controversial question of all, why I am not doing Worker Aid. It's not just because doing both Fringe Personal actions makes me feel more comfortable with taking a die off Bunkers (although that definitely helps). Don't get me wrong, I really like Worker Aid. I even tried to toss it in, but it never really fit. Then I took a closer look and found a l problem.

I don't think that we can really afford to do Worker Aid right now. Right now we have 40F per turn to fund 4 Personal dice plus whatever free dice we want to throw in. That's already somewhat tricky, but If we do Worker aid, then we have 35 R per turn funding 5 dice. That makes budgeting far harder.

It doesn't help that the cheap, 5F per die, projects have their own downsides. They have significant Paranoia costs (Leaking, Legalizing), mostly just unlock new projects (Orbital Station, De Santo, and/or have per-turn costs (Orbital).

Of course, we have a stockpile, but already it's looking like it will shrink fast. Already, the plan that reduces F loss the most (Laurent's) still takes out 10F, a third of our stockpile, and our expenses are only going to get worse, not better. We have plenty of very appealing projects that come with ongoing costs that will reduce our income, and dice costs tend to increase as we progress through project chains in this quest. We will likely want to increase our F budget at the current poker game or the next one if we play it conservative. I'm not willing to commit to getting enough F for 5 dice at this time, since asking for increased personal funding is likely to be Leverage/Paranoia intensive . Not when we can simply do it next turn if it turns out to be affordable after all. Doing so would mean we have 19 Personal Dice in 2508 instead of 20, and a 5% decrease is worth the lowered risk imo.
 
So I think I really want these actions in a plan. I'm not saying IT MUST BE, but I do think it will help focus on what I want and such.

-Fringe Worlds: Supply Bunker Construction
- Re-Establish the Bureau of Planning and Statistics
- Vardona: Vardonaville Import-Export Company
-Fringe Worlds: Divert Supplies to Independent Settlements

These are not essential but I would really like it.

-Psi-Crystal Research [Tech]
-High-Efficiency Conduits [Tech]
-Vardona: Have a Talk with Director Starke

(one or the other on the Tech)

When it comes to Raynor's Raiders: "Lose" Military Surplus, I can see it and would have no issues with it.

On things that I won't support. The main one is revealing information. I am also shaky on the Inspector-General option.

--

Hmm so right now, looking at the plans provided, I'm not sure which I would go with. (actually the closest seems the one above this post, it doesn't do Inspector-General)
 
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