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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan MNKh Edition

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Damn, it's only 12 hours, not 24? Well, fine, no need to draft a plan myself, I like @notgreat's one at the first glance. Might edit it a bit more later, but the most important thing is this - I do not think we should give up on landing on the Moon. Therefore, Chelomei's proposal.

Edit: I'll see whether we need to cut a 5 RpT project to fit the funding cap and which project to cut after I get off the phone to a PC.

[X] Plan To the Moon!
-[X]Enforce Chelomei's Proposal
-[X]2555/2595 Resources (40 Reserve), 41 Dice Rolled
Infrastructure (11/7 Dice, 635 R)
-[X]Western USSR High Capacity Roads, 1 Dice (55 R)
-[X]Ural Region High Capacity Roads, 2 Dice (110 R)
-[X]Unified Canal System(Step 2 of 3), 7 Dice (350 R)
-[X]ASU, 1 Dice (120 R)
Heavy Industry (8/8 Dice, 630 R)
-[X]Novokuznetsk Steel Mill Expansion, 4 Dice (380 R)
-[X]Severouralsk MMK(Stage 3), 1 Dice (70 R)
-[X]Kuzbas Deposit Exploitation(Stage 3), 3 Dice (180 R)
Rocketry (0/2 Dice, 0 R)
-[X]Cancel Project (Vacuum Electronics)
-[X]Cancel Project (Venera Program)
Light and Chemical Industry (12/12 Dice, 860 R)
-[X]Consumer Food Production(Stage 1), 3 Dice (150 R)
-[X]Next Generation Pulp Mills, 1 Dice (55 R)
-[X]Core Chemical Feedstock Efforts, 1 Dice (70 R)
-[X]Second Generation Plastics(Stage 2), 3 Dice (225 R)
-[X]Television Plants(Stage 1), 3 Dice (270 R)
-[X]Calculator Commercialization, 1 Dice (90 R)
Agriculture (2/4 Dice, 120 R)
-[X]Second Generation Herbicides, 1 Dice (80 R)
-[X]Rural-Zone Assessment, 1 Dice (40 R)
Services (6/6 Dice, 310 R)
-[X]Expanded Childcare(Stage 1), 2 Dice (70 R)
-[X]Hotel-Enterprises, 1 Dice (60 R)
-[X]Garbage Service Expansions, 3 Dice (180 R)
Bureaucracy (4/4 Dice, 0 R)
-[X]Dedicate Focus Towards a Project(Unified Canal System), 1 Dice
-[X]Dedicate Focus Towards a Project(Novokuznetsk Steel), 1 Dice
-[X]Justify Lacking Agricultural Performance, 1 Dice
-[X]Take a Palatable Position, 1 Dice
 
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Curiosity: How many different launches for Chelomei's proposal to assemble our moon rocket in orbit? Since we probably can't yeet the whole assembly at once.

agumentic said:
Speaking of budget cuts, after asking Blackstar in Discord, Voz estimates that canceling the moonshot now will result in our budget going a third to three-fifths down. And considering we just had a lot of delegates with a "spend money on the workers" agenda coming in and Voz underestimates their political influence, I think the cut will be at least a half, maybe as much as 75%.
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By Koba's beard, that is a HUGE margin of error. Losing one-third of our space budget now (down to 80) is totally fine. Losing three-fifths (down to 48) would be CATASTROPHIC. Given my preference to play it safe, and that it will probably be over an IRL year before the space race is done, I say LET'S ROCK.

I am leaning neavilly towards [] Plan To the Moon!, one thing i'm not happy about is Consumer Food. That sort of heavily processed food doesn't encourage healthy eating even when alternatives are available.

EDIT: Might as well put my own plan in.
[X] Plan: Moderated Massive Motions for Mountain Motorized Mobility
-[X]Enforce Chelomei's Proposal
-[X]2590/2595 Resources (5 Reserve), 43 Dice Rolled
Infrastructure (11/7 Dice, 670 R)
-[X]Western USSR High Capacity Roads, 1 Dice (55 R)
-[X]Ural Region High Capacity Roads, 5 Dice (275 R)
-[X]Hydrological Stabilization Measures, 2 Dice (120 R)
-[X]Unified Canal System(Step 2 of 3), 2 Dice (100 R)
-[X]ASU, 1 Dice (120 R)
Heavy Industry (7/8 Dice, 570 R)
-[X]Novokuznetsk Steel Mill Expansion, 4 Dice (380 R)
-[X]Severouralsk MMK(Stage 3), 1 Dice (70 R)
-[X]Pechora Coal Basin Exploitation, 2 Dice (120 R)
Rocketry (1/2 Dice, 100 R)
-[X]Stalingrad Plant Expansions, 1 Dice (100 R)
-[X]Cancel Project (Vacuum Electronics)
Light and Chemical Industry (12/12 Dice, 805 R)
-[X]Air Conditioner Plants(Stage 4), 4 Dice (240 R)
-[X]Next Generation Pulp Mills, 2 Dice (110 R)
-[X]Core Chemical Feedstock Efforts, 2 Dice (140 R)
-[X]Second Generation Plastics(Stage 2), 3 Dice (225 R)
-[X]Calculator Commercialization, 1 Dice (90 R)
Agriculture (3/4 Dice, 200 R)
-[X]Second Generation Herbicides, 2 Dice (160 R)
-[X]Rural-Zone Assessment, 1 Dice (40 R)
Services (6/6 Dice, 245 R)
-[X]Expanded Childcare(Stage 1), 3 Dice (105 R)
-[X]Legal Consulting Programs, 2 Dice (80 R)
-[X]Garbage Service Expansions, 1 Dice (60 R)
Bureaucracy (4/4 Dice, 0 R)
-[X]Dedicate Focus Towards a Project(Novokuznetsk), 1 Dice
-[X]Foundation of the Ecological Ministry, 1 Dice
-[X]Justify Lacking Agricultural Performance, 1 Dice
-[X]Take a Palatable Position, 1 Dice
 
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[X] Plan Proving a point
[X] Plan: Clear the Roads and Raise the Waters (Kill the Moon ver.)
 
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I think the concept of slowly and safely developing the compromise moon lander is unrealistic and dangerous. If we are in the moon race we are in the race, in the perception of the SupSov and the people. If we lose the 'race' we'll be seen as losing, and I think it's unrealistic to think we can keep using "beat the Americans" money on a space program but carry out that program while ignoring their pace.

Unless the Americans kill their moon program we will be pressured to accelerate our own from a late start, increasing the risk of a late cancellation or a mission catastrophe that humiliates the government - either one would be much worse for both the space program and Voz than pivoting now. And if they do cancel short of a landing, we'll likely get the budget cut anyway because it's far from certain we can put together a safe lander on a schedule close to the one we committed to.

Things keep going badly for the moon program and well in other areas - we may as well pivot to an area we can see moderate successes in and build up our capacity.

Here's an example of a workable program if the budget sees a 50% cut:
-RLA-Expansion Program (RLA-3 Only) (-10 RpT)
-RLA-Interplanetary Stage (-5 RpT) (See T73R) (Completed H1 1965)
-Venera Program (-5 RpT) (See T63R/T67/T72/T73) (Poorly Performing)
-Mars Program (-5 RpT) (See T63R) (Launch H2 1964)
-Atmospheric Data Satellite Program (-10 RpT) (See T73R)
-Orbital Docking Systems (-10 RpT) (See T70R) (Finished ???)
-EVA Suit Programs (-5Rpt) (See T69R)
-FGB-VA (-10 RpT) (See T65R, T72R) (Finished H1 1966)

This cuts PKA, RLA-5, the expanded Luna program, and the test communication satellites - the last two are painful, but necessary to keep within budget. And with this, FGB-VA and the RLA interplanetary stage and 3-core model should finish within a year or two, freeing up 25 RpT for space stations and restored satellite/probe programs or further small R&D.

It may seem harsh, but consider how much harder it would be if we got cut more severely after a dragged-out, post-1970 moon program - whether that program succeeded or failed. I'll post a version of Canal Craze that just differs in the moon option if nobody else does.
 
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Similar to To the Moon!, this plan is just Canal Craze with a different moon decision, for the reasons I mentioned above.

I think it's important to start decisively on the canal because the coal situation is going to be an issue, especially with us probably continuing to expand coal production and use, and it'll only get worse in the time it'll take to actually build the canal. Imports can only mitigate the issue, since it's a transport issue. We could go slower on the canal than this in theory, but having it largely knocked out will be nice when we want to keep up consistent spending next Plan.

[X] Plan: Strike the Earth
-[X]Cancel It
-[X]2555/2595 Resources (40 Reserve), 41 Dice Rolled
Infrastructure (11/7 Dice, 635 R)
-[X]Western USSR High Capacity Roads, 1 Dice (55 R)
-[X]Ural Region High Capacity Roads, 2 Dice (110 R)
-[X]Unified Canal System(Step 2 of 3), 7 Dice (350 R)
-[X]ASU, 1 Dice (120 R)
Heavy Industry (8/8 Dice, 630 R)
-[X]Novokuznetsk Steel Mill Expansion, 4 Dice (380 R)
-[X]Severouralsk MMK(Stage 3), 1 Dice (70 R)
-[X]Kuzbas Deposit Exploitation(Stage 3), 3 Dice (180 R)
Rocketry (0/2 Dice, 0 R)
Light and Chemical Industry (12/12 Dice, 860 R)
-[X]Consumer Food Production(Stage 1), 3 Dice (150 R)
-[X]Next Generation Pulp Mills, 1 Dice (55 R)
-[X]Core Chemical Feedstock Efforts, 1 Dice (70 R)
-[X]Second Generation Plastics(Stage 2), 3 Dice (225 R)
-[X]Television Plants(Stage 1), 3 Dice (270 R)
-[X]Calculator Commercialization, 1 Dice (90 R)
Agriculture (2/4 Dice, 120 R)
-[X]Second Generation Herbicides, 1 Dice (80 R)
-[X]Rural-Zone Assessment, 1 Dice (40 R)
Services (6/6 Dice, 310 R)
-[X]Expanded Childcare(Stage 1), 2 Dice (70 R)
-[X]Transportation Enterprises(Stage 1), 1 Dice (60 R)
-[X]Garbage Service Expansions, 3 Dice (180 R)
Bureaucracy (4/4 Dice, 0 R)
-[X]Dedicate Focus Towards a Project(Unified Canal System), 1 Dice
-[X]Dedicate Focus Towards a Project(Novokuznetsk Steel), 1 Dice
-[X]Justify Lacking Agricultural Performance, 1 Dice
-[X]Take a Palatable Position, 1 Dice


[X] Plan: Clear the Roads and Raise the Waters (Kill the Moon ver.)
 
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My plan does not strike as decisively at one or the other of canals and roads compared to either of the plans pouring massive amounts of dice on just one of them, but it does put significant resources into getting work done on both this turn while also working towards getting the utility equipment needed to keep our roads clear and functional.

I'm not really feeling the Glusko/Yangel plan right now, our committee gave us a straight up better plan than Glusko got us last time, and AIUI there was a bit from the discord where the QM mentioned that statically even a design that averaged 30 was still a functional design. Chelomei's plan will probably be delayed, but it should still work, or we just kill it now and get it over with.

If people really want to kill the moon I'll make an alternate that does it though.

[X] Plan: Clear the Roads and Raise the Waters
-[X] 2575/2595 Resources (20 Reserve), 43 dice rolled
-[X]Enforce Chelomei's Proposal
Infra 11/7 dice, 645R
-[X]Western USSR High Capacity Roads, 1 die (55 R)
-[X]Ural Region High Capacity Roads, 4 dice (220R)
-[X]Expanded Technical Services, 2 dice (100 R)
-[X]Unified Canal System(Step 2 of 3), 3 dice (150R)
-[X]ASU, 1 die (120R)
HI 7/8 dice, 570R
-[X]Novokuznetsk Steel Mill Expansion, 4 Dice (380 R)
-[X]Severouralsk MMK(Stage 3), 1 die (70R)
-[X]Moscow Coal Basin Mechanization, 2 dice (120R)
Rocketry 1/2 dice, 100R
-[X]Stalingrad Plant Expansions, 1 die (100R)
LCI 11/12 dice, 770R
-[X] Air Conditioner Plants (Stage 4), 5 dice (300R)
-[X] Core Chemical Feedstock Efforts, 2 dice (140R)
-[X] Second Generation Plastics(Stage 2), 2 dice (150R)
-[X] Television Plants(Stage 1), 1 die (90R)
-[X] Calculator Commercialization, 1 die (90R)
Agri 3/4 dice, 200R
-[X]Second Generation Herbicides, 2 dice (160R)
-[X]Rural-Zone Assessment, 1 die (40R)
Services 6/6 dice, 290R
-[X]Distribution of Banking Branches, 1 die (40R)
-[X]Expanded Childcare(Stage 1), 2 dice (70R)
-[X]Transportation Enterprises(Stage 1), 2 dice (120R)
-[X]Hotel-Enterprises, 1 die (60R)
Bureaucracy 4/4 Dice, (0R)
-[X]Dedicate Focus Towards a Project(Novokuznetsk Steel Mill Expansion), 1 die
-[X]Justify Lacking Agricultural Performance, 1 die
-[X]Equivocate on the Coal Trade, 1 die
-[X]Determine Coalitional Alignments, 1 die

[X] Plan: Clear the Roads and Raise the Waters (Kill the Moon ver.)
-[X] 2575/2595 Resources (20 Reserve), 43 dice rolled
-[X]Cancel It
Infra 11/7 dice, 645R
-[X]Western USSR High Capacity Roads, 1 die (55 R)
-[X]Ural Region High Capacity Roads, 4 dice (220R)
-[X]Expanded Technical Services, 2 dice (100 R)
-[X]Unified Canal System(Step 2 of 3), 3 dice (150R)
-[X]ASU, 1 die (120R)
HI 7/8 dice, 570R
-[X]Novokuznetsk Steel Mill Expansion, 4 Dice (380 R)
-[X]Severouralsk MMK(Stage 3), 1 die (70R)
-[X]Moscow Coal Basin Mechanization, 2 dice (120R)
Rocketry 1/2 dice, 100R
-[X]Stalingrad Plant Expansions, 1 die (100R)
LCI 11/12 dice, 770R
-[X] Air Conditioner Plants (Stage 4), 5 dice (300R)
-[X] Core Chemical Feedstock Efforts, 2 dice (140R)
-[X] Second Generation Plastics(Stage 2), 2 dice (150R)
-[X] Television Plants(Stage 1), 1 die (90R)
-[X] Calculator Commercialization, 1 die (90R)
Agri 3/4 dice, 200R
-[X]Second Generation Herbicides, 2 dice (160R)
-[X]Rural-Zone Assessment, 1 die (40R)
Services 6/6 dice, 290R
-[X]Distribution of Banking Branches, 1 die (40R)
-[X]Expanded Childcare(Stage 1), 2 dice (70R)
-[X]Transportation Enterprises(Stage 1), 2 dice (120R)
-[X]Hotel-Enterprises, 1 die (60R)
Bureaucracy 4/4 Dice, (0R)
-[X]Dedicate Focus Towards a Project(Novokuznetsk Steel Mill Expansion), 1 die
-[X]Justify Lacking Agricultural Performance, 1 die
-[X]Equivocate on the Coal Trade, 1 die
-[X]Determine Coalitional Alignments, 1 die
 
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winters_eve said:
Expanding childcare will also free up huge amounts of women to work outside of the home
the expansion of industrial factory farming will be a disaster in just about every area
water pollution, soil pollution, creation of new diseases, destroying local ecosystems, the destruction of rural towns
see rob wallace's seminal "big farms make big flu"
and then the proletariatnization of the rurals isn't a positive development in general
self abolition of the proletariat after all is part of the communist movement

but this quest does a great job of showing how the state capitalism that gets passed off as "socialism" is not socialism or communism at a

and that no politicians in the USSR are communists
they're all just capitalist developmentalists
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It heavily depends on what theoretical basis and set of definitions you use for communists vs noncommunists. In the Leninist and Marxist-Leninist sense, along with "Dengist" follow ons the primary way to build communism is to develop material conditions and productive forces to a point such that a communist transition is viable. Further, the domination by the vanguard is seen as an element of worker control of the state economic organs rather than the formation of a theoretical new elite in all of the above, the Vanguard is, at least in theory, meant to be representative of the workers and the inherently progressive force building communism. This then makes all of the various party-run and state-owned industries you have perfectly fine even if they run according to a market mechanism as industry is still under the guiding hand of the party and thus the workers.
 
[X] Plan: Strike the Earth
[X] Plan: Motions for Mountain Motorized Mobility and Notably NEGATIVE on Moon Mobility
[X] Plan: Clear the Roads and Raise the Waters (Kill the Moon ver.)
 
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[X] Plan: Clear the Roads and Raise the Waters (Kill the Moon ver.)
[X] Plan: Strike the Earth
[X] Plan Proving a point
 
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[X] Plan: Clear the Roads and Raise the Waters (Kill the Moon ver.)
[X] Plan Proving a point

Build up on the legacy of the Sports push!
 
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agumentic said:
Speaking of budget cuts, after asking Blackstar in Discord, Voz estimates that canceling the moonshot now will result in our budget going a third to three-fifths down. And considering we just had a lot of delegates with a "spend money on the workers" agenda coming in and Voz underestimates their political influence, I think the cut will be at least a half, maybe as much as 75%.
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Bets that we will have a dice roll to decide where exactly things fall? From the sound of it though, the median outcome is for a 50% cut, which will be a pain, but which we could survive.

Of course, what Voz thinks about politics is pretty unreliable right now.

Blackstar said:
[]Cancel It: The designers have themselves discredited practically every approach towards the moon, doing much of the challenging political work independent of any prodding. Ensuring that the Supreme Soviet brings them all into interviews and determines the correct truth of the matter would be a trivial task. The space program will take a budget cut and the goal of the moon will be surrendered for a time, at least until the Americans do something or technology sufficiently improves.
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Bolded are some reasons to hope... Especially if Glushko survives as leader of the program he will for sure still have the moon in mind as an ultimate goal. Plus if we do have 50% to 66.66% of the current budget in the next plan, we'll easily be able to afford the hardware to go to the moon in the 70s.

Blackstar said:
In the closest thing to a compromise design, Chelomei and his OKB have made a proposal to eliminate the riskiest part of the landing itself by bringing along a far heavier lander to the moon on a hypergolic transfer stage. Rationalizing the bus itself to the old variation on the VA capsule with the original life support circuit docked to a far larger lander with a small transfer bus. This would enable a tiny hypergolic rocket to launch the capsule back to the Earth after a landing was conducted. Every component of the program was to be split directly between the OKBs to ensure cooperation and eliminate parallel efforts. Immediate criticisms however came from the single point of failure on the return bus, nonexistent life support margin, and the necessity of an earth and moon rendezvous. The separation of components will mean that any delay will cause significant slowdowns, but such is to be expected from a compromise project.
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Not having a backup life support system is very concerning. It would be nice to be able to survive and Apollo 13-type disaster. And... Am I misunderstanding things, or is the capsule carrying the cosmonauts JUST the VA re-entry vehicle, not the full FGB-VA? The OTL VA was to be a pretty tight fit (as any work was to be done in the FGB). The lack of space to work and move around could undermine the mission.

Also, taking the lowest of 3 quality rolls is pretty high risk.

Considering the low chances of getting a first even if everything does go according to plan, I am now leaning to bowing out of the moon race.

Forget competing on speed, Voz's successor could if they want to get a second place that wows everyone with its capability.

But maybe I am misunderstanding some things about Chelomei's proposal and maybe I am being too optimistic that we'll have a chance to go to the moon later.

If we do cancel the current program but want to go to the moon later, I notice that an issue that the designers are repeatedly coming up against is they want a more powerful Trans-Lunar Insertion stage. I thought that wasn't a big deal, but again and again our chief designers are either coming forward with mission architectures that use large hydrolox TLI stages, or they cut corners in hair-raising ways, like Chelomei launching the lander to the moon separately from the VA capsule.

Might be worth funding a powerful hydrolox stage or nuclear engines at some point if we want to score a stunningly capable second place in the 70s.

Blackstar said:
[]Stalingrad Plant Expansions: Now that the RLA itself is finalized, the question of securing sufficient production has come. The plant itself is ready to make a sufficient number of boosters for the current programs but it is expected that hundreds will be needed before the end of the decade. Expanding towards a secondary production line along with a significantly increased set of tooling for the construction of new engine bells will serve to lower prices and ensure an economy of scale. Current investments will be expensive new machinery, but even that will eventually lower costs. (100 Resources per Dice 0/200) (-9 CI2 Electricity -3 CI1 Steel -8 CI2 Non-Ferrous -5 CI1 Workforce)
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It is worth noting that in OTL, expectations that demand for launch capacity would keep rising led both the USA and USSR to over-build their rocket production enterprises. This capacity had to be paid for, raising launch costs. But at the same time, the capacity wasn't needed as, especially in the US, advancements in electronics reduced the amount of mass that needed to be launched into orbit since satellites could be more capable and longer lasting.

The US launched the most stuff into orbit in 1966, whereas the OTL Soviets launches kept growing into the early 70s, then maintained that level right to the end of the Cold War (see here). If we are on a more American trajectory, that could make a second production line at Stalingrad entirely a waste.

If we do need more launch capacity, it might be better to fund the "Second Generation Light Launcher Development", which might let us better utilize the production lines we built to pump out R7/R7U LVs.

But equally, we may not have electronics that are that good yet, and be on a trajectory closer to the OTL Soviets, in which case a third RLA production line might be an issue, but not this second one.

As far as more general things for this turn's plan, I do think that "Hydrological Stabilization Measures" are absolutely vital. The climate is drying and we have an enormous amount of rural activity in danger of being devastated by that. Besides that, IMO "Unified Canal System(Step 2 of 3)", "Foundation of the Ecological Ministry" and "Equivocate on the Coal Trade" are all very important.

The ecological ministry will not only help start to catalogue and clean up the pollution of the USSR, it will also provide an outlet for these youngsters who have entered the SupSov on an anti-corruption drive. Voz wants to burn up their energy tilting at windmills, and to an extent we as players will want the anti-corruption drives to be moderated for the sake of stability. But we also don't want Voz's corruption to become too entrenched. Helping the ecological ministry get started will give these youngsters a weapon against Voz's empire and oblige him to grow less brazen.

The coal trade will improve CMEA integration, the Union needs coal, it is a move that makes everyone richer.

Also, the "Next Generation Pulp Mills" and "Virgin Lands Forestry" seem good. If Soviet workers can't have personal libraries that's a big issue IMO, and the forestry would put trees that are already being felled to some useful purpose and not being turned into ash and atmospheric carbon...

And of course, more roads and steel are needed.

Blackstar said:
Soviet investments followed at practically the same time, with partial buyouts of unproductive companies over important resources and those capable of tentative modernization. Buyouts have been conducted under a partial enterprise model, ensuring a stable transfer of capital and a direct influence on the ground for further modernization.
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Is that... Soviet neo-colonialism? That's sure different!

We really are America's mirror image in this TL (especially as the US itself is still in New Deal mode).

Regards,

fasquardon
 
[X] Plan Proving a point
Promises made, promises kept.

[X] Plan: Moderated Massive Motions for Mountain Motorized Mobility
 
fasquardon said:
As far as more general things for this turn's plan, I do think that "Hydrological Stabilization Measures" are absolutely vital.
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I think I've said this before, but from our sneak peeks on Discord, we will have a CA dams project that will complete it and its "Advanced Hydrological Stabilization Measures" follow up project. Personally, from what I've seen (though things may change as this was, again, a sneak peak) we will want to do it. So I don't think we should use dice to work on that this turn.
 
winters_eve said:
the expansion of industrial factory farming will be a disaster in just about every area
water pollution, soil pollution, creation of new diseases, destroying local ecosystems, the destruction of rural towns
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Large-scale industrial resource extraction of each and every kind is a disaster from that point of view, but without it we get an entirely different and nasty set of problems anyway...

see rob wallace's seminal "big farms make big flu"
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I can't comment on the work in question, but it occurs to me that the most infamous and deadly flu epidemic in recorded history happened at a time when "big farming" wasn't particularly big or industrialized.

self abolition of the proletariat after all is part of the communist movement

but this quest does a great job of showing how the state capitalism that gets passed off as "socialism" is not socialism or communism at a

and that no politicians in the USSR are communists
they're all just capitalist developmentalists
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You are not wrong, with possibly one or two fluke exceptions in there somewhere who really do have those principles.

Random Member said:
Instead we'll get people saying that we did land on the moon but are keeping it secret because reasons.
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I can't help it, I'd somehow find that about 100x less annoying.

agumentic said:
Not only this sounds rather pessimistic to me - US program is likely to kill people before getting them back from the moon, so I doubt we need to roll above 60 to get a mission that is very likely to do so before them safe-ish - even if we do lose the race, there's still prestige in getting there at all.
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The US program killed people in OTL and still got Neil Armstrong to the Sea of Tranquility by July 1969. Remember the Apollo 1 fire.

midnight77 said:
i think it will be funny if we cancel the moon program, the americans get there, and then the supreme soviet panics and asks us why we didnt get there first.
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The good news is that in that scenario, by the time the Americans walk on the moon, it'll be just about time for Voz to retire anyway!

So it would be the perfect time for Voz to say (whether he would or not):

"We lost the race because I was saddled with a bunch of bickering ninnies who couldn't work together to save their lives, let alone a cosmonaut's, and then you capped funding for the project!"
 
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