Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
Why the redundancy?
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan MNKh Edition
- Thread starter Blackstar
- Start date
- Alt. History Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
What could be a better demonstration of historical materialism than a materialistic lifestyle?
Pretty sure he had golden guns, also his Amazon brigade was actually just his harem and all the woman in it were kidnapped by his secret service.
Gaddafi got me acting unwise.
On a more serious note, sending in the force seems reasonable enough.
Not sure what to do about the ecology tho.
On a more serious note, sending in the force seems reasonable enough.
Not sure what to do about the ecology tho.
Because even a conflict with just France, can escalate to a nuclear war
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Possibly because one has a chance of leading to a probably limited nuclear war with France that hopefully doesn't escalate as far as us nuking Paris or them nuking Moscow, while the other had a chance of leading to either that or to a full NATO/Comecon nuclear exchange that kills everyone?
It's a great update, but...
Has almost been more than halved!?
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Ashheap
Friend-shape little shrimp smoking remnants
- Location
- Bottom of the pot
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Oh, I believe you, it's just that "has almost been more than halved" sounds like a very unnecessarily complicated way to say "has been halved" or "has been nearly halved." 
- Location
- Amman, Jordan
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
PLEASE DO NOT ARM GADDAFI PEOPLE. He's just insane.
The sane response would be to deescalate and pick our fights wisely. France is itching for a global fight to draw attention away from the interior. Yes, we lose face from not supporting our comrades, but France is not going to back down. Algeria is probably a lost cause, though they can always wait a few decades and pick up the fight under better conditions. I hate it more than you know, but our main responsibility is towards the people of the Soviet Union and the Communist cause, not spite some desperate madmen in Paris.
Paris is weak, Paris is shambling, but Paris is above all desperate. And desperate people do desperate things. Deescalate in Algeria, but find a new place to kick them in the shins to keep the pressure on without risking nuclear war.
The sane response would be to deescalate and pick our fights wisely. France is itching for a global fight to draw attention away from the interior. Yes, we lose face from not supporting our comrades, but France is not going to back down. Algeria is probably a lost cause, though they can always wait a few decades and pick up the fight under better conditions. I hate it more than you know, but our main responsibility is towards the people of the Soviet Union and the Communist cause, not spite some desperate madmen in Paris.
Paris is weak, Paris is shambling, but Paris is above all desperate. And desperate people do desperate things. Deescalate in Algeria, but find a new place to kick them in the shins to keep the pressure on without risking nuclear war.
- Location
- Moscow, Russia
[]Allow Libyian Self-Defense:
I am for that. France was a thorn in our side long enough. Joking, but only partially.
"people do desperate things. Deescalate in Algeria, but find a new place to kick them in the shins to keep the pressure on without risking nuclear war."
If we stand back too often, we will be brought to where canon USSR was, to collapse.
I am for that. France was a thorn in our side long enough. Joking, but only partially.
"people do desperate things. Deescalate in Algeria, but find a new place to kick them in the shins to keep the pressure on without risking nuclear war."
If we stand back too often, we will be brought to where canon USSR was, to collapse.
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Ashheap
Friend-shape little shrimp smoking remnants
- Location
- Bottom of the pot
Cold War is heating up with new US president.
Arm sale only goes up.
Monroe Doctrine in full swing.
South Africa's Korean now has our weapon, hopefully we send some CBRN gears. Their nuclear program must still be on track as well.
German rearmament is on with 100+ German sub to go.
Middle East inching closer to war just in time for oil crisis.
The Frog violating inter'al law by interdicting our legitimate trade with Libya. Ramming season in the Mediterranean. In the word of @HanEmpire : "Soviet Union being the champions of Freedom of Navigation is really funny".
Object 200 aka T-4MS
sixteen Kh-15s internally and eight externally
16+8 = 24
(courtesy of @agumentic )
VTOL is still 💩 as usual
HSR got us to reduce inner city density
Much needed long overdue airports upgraded and expanded.
ESA is done 🎉
Atomash finally got off the ground.
(from @Blackstar )
PVC pipe for irrigation is swell.
Arm sale only goes up.
Monroe Doctrine in full swing.
South Africa's Korean now has our weapon, hopefully we send some CBRN gears. Their nuclear program must still be on track as well.
German rearmament is on with 100+ German sub to go.
Middle East inching closer to war just in time for oil crisis.
The Frog violating inter'al law by interdicting our legitimate trade with Libya. Ramming season in the Mediterranean. In the word of @HanEmpire : "Soviet Union being the champions of Freedom of Navigation is really funny".
Object 200 aka T-4MS
sixteen Kh-15s internally and eight externally
16+8 = 24
(courtesy of @agumentic )
VTOL is still 💩 as usual
HSR got us to reduce inner city density
Much needed long overdue airports upgraded and expanded.
ESA is done 🎉
Atomash finally got off the ground.
(from @Blackstar )
Our Bigelow will jive well with mixed textile industries.
PVC pipe for irrigation is swell.
Programmer sock 🧦⁉️😏
On track for e-gov by the 2000s.
Catfish for days. Single largest ecological disaster of the 20th century.
The Youth must step up to defend their future.
Unfortunate that so many talented individuals are lost to us just because our education sys is always overwhelmed.
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- Location
- Northish
We must initiate Operation: Red Tide to continue arms shipments in the Algerian fight for freedom. Lets see who put the better steel in the hull frames Frenchman!
We can totally delivers arm to Gaddafi. I recommend doing it about 8 to 30 times. Preferably delivered directly to him in person. At VERY high velocity. France and the US will even thank us for doing so! Sure, it might make a mess of Gaddafi's room...but thats just red paint, comrade, totally not blood!
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It's just straight up the single largest man made ecological disaster of all time. Maybe the depletion of the global fisheries is on par but it's up there.
On the actual votes:
1. We can't let France bully us, we need to take the middle option.
2. I want the student's report on the environment. It'll be over enthusiastic and thus politically unviable, but I hope it'll then be on the table for next time this comes up.
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- Location
- Northish
Our medical and education sectors have been a step behind from the start unfortunately given we crash industrialized from a deeply regressive society and Soviet Russia was not the best at keeping intellectuals in service. I think it is going to be the work of the following decades to actually meet demand fully as new generations of experts grow up.
- Location
- UTC+0
- Pronouns
- He/Him/They
We can have WW3 not escalate to a nuclear war, it would mean we enter a conflict, but the frontlines stagnate before we pull out the sunshine. Needless to say, I don't think its very likely but its still possible.
Anyway, we have some interesting options here:
[]Avoid Escalation: The direct use of warships to protect merchant shipping formally and forcing through any blockade could be taken as close enough to an act of war to trigger an actual war. It would not be the best geopolitical decision and would force the alternative routing of arms to Algerian partisans, but it likely would not compromise the entire effort. Further Seymonov and the various doves have advocated for the path as they believe there is no reason to risk ending the world over a secondary colonial conflict that France is effectivly losing.
This would be a unforced L, if we let the French and US bully us around as they please, not only this would lead to huge political losses as seen by Podgorny's performance last turn, but it would likely further empower the hawks. Humphrey is gone, we are going to be pushed around more, and we need to get used to it and push back a little too.
[]Send a Force: Pushing through the illegitimate French blockade with a significant number of fleet assets is going to be the best compromise to keep supply lines functional. The French are deeply unlikely to start shooting at a full Soviet-flagged force unless their operational posture has been significantly misjudged. The Union is conducting free international trade and any action by French forces would be in flagrant violation of the very international law that they claim to uphold. If a naval engagement does start, significant casualties are expected from the range of contact but as long as the Americans are not involved that is not expected to pose a significant problem. (Chance of Nuclear War)
Just basic bitch freedom of navigation exercises, the US does it all the time around China and there's been no nuclear war yet. So am not too worried, I think that the chances of this actually escalating too much are relatively low. This is a nice middle ground between do nothing and give Gadaffi free reign over Mediterranean shipping. Speaking of which:
[]Allow Libyian Self-Defense: Gadafi is not reliable but he can be squarely pointed at the French more than anyone else in the region. Transferring several batteries of anti-shipping missiles for the protection of coastal waters along with more formal ties and basing of Soviet warships will show a strong commitment towards security in the region. Daring France to respond will put the initiative in their corner but that in itself is likely safe given the significant stress placed on the French government. Current domestic policies will force the French regime to do something to hold its dominance all while pressure across West Africa increases for the total expulsion of French regime elements. (Chance of WW3) (Chance of Nuclear War)
This is not a great ideia imo, Gadaffi famously declared a "line of death" across its territorial waters and was involved in several skirmishes with the Americans in the Gulf of Sidra in 1981, 1986 and in Tobruk in 89. Giving him the tools so he can actually strike against a US carrier seems a bit too much, and he is famously light handed with weapons systems, so he might even transfer them if we are unlucky.
Overall []Send a Force seems like the best option for us.
Also, lmao at us flubbing Minimal Ecological Standards, surely this won't bite us in the ass in the future! Anyway, let us take a look at each of the options we have to deal with this issue...
[]Popularize the Report: Industry advocates have given every excuse necessary for further accelerating development in an easy-to-defend framework. Continuing with the excuse provides something of cover for the ministry when inevitable ecological consequences crop up and would allow a further expansion of industry. If in the next plan, radical ecological measures are taken this will unquestionably make them cheaper both politically and economically.
This is playing along with the SoEs for now, and waiting for some major incident like the Volga catching on fire to take decisive action and implement stronger standards than we could now while blaming them.
[]Reform another Commission: If a commission has produced erroneous results one can be formed from a series of academics that are at least neutral towards industrial concerns. These would effectively be raised from university students to take a second more impartial look. As this would be less known scientists taking a view, and worse student scientists their line is unlikely to be listened to until something inevitably goes wrong but a more accurate policy picture can be made.
This is us just forming a rival comission with our own personnel that can take a more honest look, it keeps the ball in our hand but I think its unlikely to result in much for now when more growth minded politicians can just point at the other reports. A relatively safe option, though it would make the SoEs a bit pissy.
[]Throw the Matter to the Supreme Soviet: Several representatives are willing to agitate strongly for their districts having major ecological issues. Consistent discoloration and downstream combustion near Saratov along with water problems near sites of intense petrochemical development are just a small factor. Significant farming runoff areas have caused significant issues for urban water supplies with low pressure and filtration interruptions consistently resulting. It's unlikely to produce massive results but getting the Supreme Soviet arguing about it will at least force a compromise.
Now this is the option more likely to yield results now, but it would give the initiative to the SupSov on this issue, meaning our political rivals can use environmental issues as a tool of criticism towards the Ministry. Politically, this is the most risky option I wager.
Keeping in mind, that well, regulations are going to make our projects more expensive. Delaying is viable if we want to squeeze off some more growth this plan, obviously this comes at a cost to the environment, but well, that's just how it is. I don't think there is a obvious choice here.
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- Location
- Europe
If we do this, the USA are definitely going to take our backing down as an opportunity to implement similar solutions in future situations, which will probably result in either us eventually being unable to truly support other nations/movements with our navy, or in us having to force another naval block in the future with probably a higher chance of nuclear war, especially because the American will feel more open to directly support with their navies the next naval blocks in this case.
Also, both France and the USA probably have to crit fail at the same time in this situation for nuclear war to happen with option 2.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
In all fairness, as I understand it, the thing that really brought the USSR to collapse was a mix of (partly) spending too heavily on foreign adventures in countries that couldn't really repay the investment plus (mostly) a blend of general economic dysfunction and just being wildly unpopular in the satellite states so that when the wheels came off everyone in the Warsaw Pact and outside the Russia SSR in particular just up and left. Kind of a different question from this.
So this is a functional T-4-alike in performance even if not in actual design, and thus analogous to the XB-70 Valkyrie? Or is it something else?Object 200 aka T-4MS
sixteen Kh-15s internally and eight externally
16+8 = 24
(courtesy of @agumentic )
And we kind of get kicked in the history books for just how long we neglected the issue, which is fair. We did very minimal airport construction in the post-WWII era, and I think people underestimated how important air travel was, as a sort of overcompensation for the perceived faults of Western society. It's much as with cars and trucks.
Again, it bears remembering that even now it's only been about 2-3 generations since Russia proper had a literacy rate in the vicinity of 25% or so. I'm not surprised we have this problem. SPED departments get real labor-intensive real-fast if you're trying hard.
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- They
The latest form of Great Russian chauvinism that argues that we should only upheld the interest of the domestic population of the USSR must be sternly opposed at every step. We must rise past such petty nationalistic mindset and keep supporting the global internationalist struggle against western imperialism in Africa and elsewhere still under the yoke of western capital.
The only acceptable choice is giving the formerly colonist countries and freedom fighters all over Africa the tool they need to stand against the anglo-french menace. They must become as capable of standing on their own feet as Red Asia has.
The only acceptable choice is giving the formerly colonist countries and freedom fighters all over Africa the tool they need to stand against the anglo-french menace. They must become as capable of standing on their own feet as Red Asia has.
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- Location
- Philippines
I can already imagine all the headaches surrounding Indonesia once the Australians get ideas from the french.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
My impression is that in Asia we've been able to provide that assistance to people who aren't as completely bonkers as Moammar Gaddafi. It's not a question of what continent he lives on, it's that he's going to get us all killed if he personally is a fuckup with scary enough long range weapons.
Hmm. Maybe. On the other hand, I think Australia has issues with scale and power projection. France would have a population of something like 45-50 million and they're starting to at least partly rebound from the demographic disaster of WWII famines (the military-age males right now are baby boomers born c. 1950-1955 or so). Australia has a population of about one quarter of that. They simply can't afford to field large, heavily equipped armies overseas in a protracted colonial war as a point of national pride.
- Location
- UTC+0
- Pronouns
- He/Him/They
We already fought them in Papua, and well, in conflicts like this population matters less than economic heft. With American support they have significant capabilities, but well, I don't see them causing too much trouble in the near future.
BaronofClubs
Dark lord of the meme
- Location
- Why do you want to know?!?!
I'm actually surprised everyone thinks Ghadaffi is an insane crazy maniac. If you look into it he was a benevolent dictator who improved his nation tremendously up until the civil war happened. Sure he wasn't perfect but then what leader is?
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