Does anyone have the link to the probability array for the entire possible projects list? Does it exist even?
 
Does anyone have the link to the probability array for the entire possible projects list? Does it exist even?
It's in the Informational Threadmarks list.
forums.sufficientvelocity.com

Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

Here's a little project of my own to help everyone make their own plans for the next four turns. I've calculated out the completion chances for every single project. The amount of dice shown here are from the first amount with above 1% completion chance to the first amount with above 90%...
 
A giant hover battleship is a singular, compact platform capable of defending itself and potentially of shrugging off most normal anti-aircraft weaponry. This can have advantages.

This will probably become especially relevant once shields become a thing and we are a generation or two into them (I.E once they are better than blocking space debris in orbit). Sure weaker shields on fighters and drones arn't worth much, being able to only block a few machinegun/cannon rounds.

But once you scale that up to full size battleships, you get to the point where the shield can hold off fighter based missile systems with ease. Enabling it to loiter above nod bases and fire tactical ion beams on ground forces like the wrath of an ancient god.

Probably never gonna get to that point / NOD would by necessity have to come up with some kind of counter. But the image is damn cool.
 
Sure weaker shields on fighters and drones arn't worth much, being able to only block a few machinegun/cannon rounds.
Considering it only takes a few hits to put them down and hits are relatively hard to land with how fast everything is that's worth a lot. Especially if the shields regen fast enough to come back up between the infrequent number of hits landed.
 
Y'know, I'm kinda surprised it hasn't come up yet, but I really hope one of the beneficiaries of all the sudden missile research is the Mammoth. Considering the URLS explicitly mentions the Mammoth's missile system and the stated goal of rationalizing the various launch systems- we could see a Mammoth refit/successor capable of firing QMGAMs, improved anti-infantry missiles, and longer ranged missiles as a response to BVR attacks.

There will always be dedicated platforms that do it better, but the idea of turning the iconic GDI heavyweight into a surprising generalist in addition to its overwhelming advantages in a firefight is really exciting. Especially since Mammoths have had a criminal lack of representation so far in this quest.
 
Y'know, I'm kinda surprised it hasn't come up yet, but I really hope one of the beneficiaries of all the sudden missile research is the Mammoth. Considering the URLS explicitly mentions the Mammoth's missile system and the stated goal of rationalizing the various launch systems- we could see a Mammoth refit/successor capable of firing QMGAMs, improved anti-infantry missiles, and longer ranged missiles as a response to BVR attacks.

There will always be dedicated platforms that do it better, but the idea of turning the iconic GDI heavyweight into a surprising generalist in addition to its overwhelming advantages in a firefight is really exciting. Especially since Mammoths have had a criminal lack of representation so far in this quest.
This is true, Ithillid what tech do we need to research to make this quest's version of the Mk 4 Mammoth?
 
So far, the only techs we've developed and projects we've done that are directly relevant to the Mammoth tank line were:

1) The mass railgun rollout, which probably upgraded all remaining Mammoths to railgun main armament.
2) Antilaser ablatives, which benefit a Mammoth tank the same way they benefit everything else.

I could see some of the missile research including a Mammoth retrofit or modification to launch new missiles, yeah. Or the Predator RWS system or an active antimissile system being integrated into a Mammoth Mk. 4. But those are projects still under development; they don't count yet.
 
We can do better
Omake: We can do better.


It was a small base, all things considered.

More than an outpost, but less than a true NOD stronghold. Small enough they could keep the entire location under the umbrella of an old Third War disruption tower. And since the tower itself couldn't be cloaked, the local Confessors ordered it wedged into a convenient rock formation and disguised with Tiberium-green paint. Simple, and not especially airtight under scrutiny, but good enough at a distance.

For such a small forward base, meant to scout out GDI mining operations and provide some minimal support in the case of an offensive, even if that support only came as a place to lay low after a raid, it might seem like a crew of just under a hundred souls was quite a lot. But most of them were Militia, the disenfranchised of the yellow zones. Barely more loyal to NOD than their next meal, they were still loyal enough to shoot or take a bullet. And with a few true believers seeded through the crowds and a small core of proper Confessors, that's all the commander really needed.

Also, maintenance crew, technicians, janitors, cooks - quite a lot of work went into even a single semi-permanent barracks.

It didn't have to be like this. With GDI arming up even their basic infantry beyond what old war stock could reasonably penetrate, the Militia concept itself was getting a bit long in the tooth. Giving them some laser weaponry was a stopgap - mostly older stock, but two or three more modern variants sometimes appeared in would-be Fanatic or Confessor hands simply by virtue of actually still being produced - but sooner or later NOD would have to separate the wheat from the chaff just so they could reliably equip their forces in something competitive with the new GDI powered armors. And of course, so that effort wasn't wasted on the unfaithful.

But nonetheless, the Militia still formed the backbone of NOD's infantry, especially in these times of hardship when so many full brothers were slain in the third war. So they would stand until Kane or his Messengers delivered the tools and methods of the future.

Still, nearly a hundred people needed nearly a hundred rations, and more specifically it meant transporting those rations from elsewhere.

And even in the deep Yellow Zones, that was enough to tip off the GDI patrols.

----

Finding a disruptor tower within a kilometer of a mining operation was cause for significant concern to local the GDI garrison.

They had no idea what was under the thing's umbrella, and the supply caravan - spotted by a sniper team on an overlooking ridge - was enough to feed quite a few people. It might be called a minor miracle they hadn't started infiltration or sabotage campaigns against the relatively vulnerable harvesters or refineries, but they also might be biding their time for a full frontal assault.

There could be a full forward military base, fields of laser and shredder turrets surrounding a single bunker, or just about anything else. The only thing the local commander was relatively sure could be ruled out was the advanced Specter artillery tanks, and that mostly because the base was too close to really make good use of it.

So it was little wonder a tank column with full mechanized infantry complement rolled up to deal with what would turn out to be a handful of half-assed barracks - only one of which even tried to look the part of the iconic Hand of Nod - and a listening outpost.

What came to meet the GDI soldiers was a half-feral mob in little better than rags and some surplus or scavenged armor plates.

Honestly, despite their numbers, the Militia of NOD, in that moment, seemed... pitiful. These were the terrorists? These were the fanatics?

There was a fight, of course. The listening post, as a high value target, wasn't so much destroyed as it was evaporated under tank and infantry railguns. The Militia on watch and their Confessor shepherds were slaughtered in the dozens, screaming rhetoric the whole time as only the indoctrinated could.

But as the rest of the base's forces came piling out of their quarters, they paused. In the face of so much death and surrounded on all sides by GDI's hammer, even the die-hard fanatics had to take a moment to look around and really consider: this is the end for me.

---

The moment of silence was probably no more than two seconds, but in a warzone that felt like an eternity. The dust had already settled from the previous salvoes; an eerie silence waited for someone, anyone, to raise their gun and commit suicide by GDI. NOD Militia took in the carnage while GDI sighted targets. A sight was lined up-

A man popped out of a Predator tank, drawing all eyes from the NOD barracks and halting any intent to fire from the GDI ranks.

He brought out a megaphone, and shouted into the void.

"If you'll hold your horses for a moment - not that too many people know what the hell a horse even is any more - I'd like to make an announcement. GDI is now officially offering amnesty to any of you sons-of-bitches that put your fucking weapons on the ground and surrender right-the-fuck now."

Some of the infantry briefly glanced the tank's way before re-sighting on their NOD opposites. Say what now?

The NOD forces didn't look like they believed it either, but they carefully kept their weapons facing downward as they filed out of the barracks and makeshift Hand. If this blowhard was going to give them the opportunity to get situated, who were they to argue? Some of the faster hands with the lasers might even take down a Zone armor before they died, when the shooting started again.

"Now I know we aren't exactly on the best of terms with you people, so I'll make this short.

"We're sorry.

"Not for you more crazy assholes who actually buy into Kane's bullshit, but the rest of you sorry fucks that didn't have much choice but to sign on with NOD if you wanted to live.

"We get it. You need water. You need food. You need a place to sleep that isn't going to start glowing green overnight and turn your lungs to rock. And the Global Defense Initiative has consistently fucked you all over at every opportunity for... probably longer than some of you have been alive. If not through action, then through inaction. We left you to die, and NOD didn't."

There was another brief hush. The mob had fully filed out of their quarters by now, but otherwise nobody continued to move.

"But we're fixing that. I swear to god, we're fixing it. Granger - the current head of the GDI Treasury for those of you who don't know - has emptied his pockets getting aid, infrastructure, and even proper living conditions out to the yellow zones. And I don't mean a short term publicity stunt either - it's been over half a decade and he's still going strong.

"If you need food, we've got that. If you need water, we've got that. If you just need a place to rest your head that isn't actively trying to kill you or your families - because, yes, we know you have families out there - we've got that. And I'm telling you, right now, we'll give it to you. Any of you that want it. for nothing."

There was a bit more of a stir in the ranks from that announcement. At least one GDI trooper had taken a moment to stare incredulously at his commander, and he would be disciplined for that lapse later if he survived the NODdies' sudden and inevitable betrayal. But in the mean time, the loosely balled group of maybe fifty NOD survivors were still listening, if only because they implicitly understood the moment they stopped was the moment they died.

"That's what the GDI has been fighting for, recently. It's what we should have been doing all along, but we're doing it now, which is the best we can actually do under the circumstances.

"I won't lie to you - you'll be quarantined. We have signed NOD sympathizers on in the past, but it's a long process to get vetted and you'd be under surveillance either way. And it's far; right now we're deep in the yellow zone, and all our best infrastructure and buildup is in places we can actually reach it, which usually means bordering the blues. But we'll do our best to keep you in good health, to move you with your families, and to keep you together with them on the other end.

"THIS!"

The commander waved around, gesturing to the blasted green landscape.

"This is how you live right now!

"I promise. I promise! We can do better.

"We can do... better.

"If you just... put down your fucking guns."

The megaphone made the distinctive squak of being turned off, and the commander laid it down on the tank hatch in front of him.

Wind blew in the silence.

A Confessor, iconic black armor gleaming in the sun, stepped forward and began to brandish his weapon at these heretics who would try to convert the holy! To defy KANE!

And he instantly dropped the the ground, lifelessly. Not a single railgun had fired, but a hole had been burned from the back of his head to the front.

A militiaman slowly tossed his just-fired laser rifle to the ground, put his hands behind his head, and dropped to his knees. The sound of other guns hitting the ground soon followed.

The confessor would be noted as having died to "Ork snipers", confusing at least one GDI clerk.

A/N: Sorry, not sure about the quality here; particularly in the beginning where it was both all exposition and with as few real details as possible, so it could fit in any of our operation zones. I could probably blame it on the time - almost 5:30AM here - but frankly I don't know if I could improve it even if I had more time to plot it out. So, posting as-is.
 
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I mean, if WH40k has survived the ages, it just needs one guy to suggest putting that down as the reason and everyone'll eventually get it. Because it works. It tells everyone that 'This guy was not killed the usual way' but it doesn't explicitly say he got fragged by his own side, and thus require people to investigate and appropriately punish the people who actually assassinated the officer/commissar equivalent on their side.

Which in this case who be Nod looking to find out just who did the shooting so they can kidnap, interrogate and then execute the person who did the shooting once they find out from one of their sleeper agents leaking the report. Because there is a wide difference between everyone knowing that someone in the militia killed the confessor and GDI openly talking about how Nod militias are now killing Confessors and surrendering.

One gives Nod the time to work on their morale issue whilst also allowing GDI the opportunity to cause more surrenders like this. The other requires Nod 'fix' the morale issues from both ends and makes it so GDI now has to worry that any surrender is specifically to have something like the Nod base explode under their feet the moment they send units forward to accept the surrender and clear the base.

The response to which would be 'shoot first, shoot second and only accept surrenders if anyone is still alive after the fight is over'. Because it both absolutely fits with Nod methodology to pull something like that, and by making GDI much less willing to immediately accept surrenders, they make it so the militia are much less likely to immediately surrender themselves.
 
I'm guessing the idea may be inspired by the Creeper World series, where a similar "anti-Creeper" substance is created to fight the blue goo threatening to destroy all life.

Doesn't feel very C&C-y to me.
Honestly from what I've played in Creeper World games (basically what was on Kongregate a few years ago) Anti-Creeper (or in this case, Tiberium-converting Tiberium) is best used as a form of short term ablative defense for your recently deployed assets to prevent them from being overrun by standard issue Creeper during deep strike operations.
In the asteroids mission it's useful to protect your asteroids from sudden Creeper arrival. In the mission with conversion bombs and the mission with high pressure Creeper chamber I found useful to stop the Creeper from *immediately* spreading everywhere.

Huh. Maybe Conversion Bombs (if at all possible) will actually prove useful. Drop one into a Red Zone (risky, I know), and watch as Counter-Tib eats the surrounding Tiberium and is then conveniently vulnerable to traditional MARV harvesting.

Counter-Tib (if possible) would probably serve as a method for enhancing MARV and Glacier abatement effectiveness.
 
One of next turn issue will be which systems we should deploy first and which will be delay. I think QAAM and Stealth Disruptor to be deploy next turn to stop next nod attack.
 
I think the military is the least likely segment of GDI's populace to completely accept a more lenient stance on NOD. Regardless of the validity of it- these are going to be the people who faced mass formations of suicide bombers doped on Tiberium to sprint at literally super human speeds among many other terrifying threats. We can joke about militia seeming pitiful, but it only takes them covering one squad of Blackhand for them to potentially tear through several squads of infantry, Zone Armor or no.

It risks arrogance to offer magnamity like apologizing in the middle of a firefight. Demanding surrender is never something to be dismissed out of hand, but we don't possess that nearly enough of an overwhelming advantage that we can discount militia as a threat. NOD can easily start mass issuing RPGs, a Molotov cocktail could still probably kill a man in Zone armor before we factor in NOD's love of flame weaponry, or even just high explosives in general. And this is ignoring suicide vests or anything else like actual NOD flamethrowers.

Let's not buy into our hype so much.
 
I think the military is the least likely segment of GDI's populace to completely accept a more lenient stance on NOD. Regardless of the validity of it- these are going to be the people who faced mass formations of suicide bombers doped on Tiberium to sprint at literally super human speeds among many other terrifying threats. We can joke about militia seeming pitiful, but it only takes them covering one squad of Blackhand for them to potentially tear through several squads of infantry, Zone Armor or no.

It risks arrogance to offer magnamity like apologizing in the middle of a firefight. Demanding surrender is never something to be dismissed out of hand, but we don't possess that nearly enough of an overwhelming advantage that we can discount militia as a threat. NOD can easily start mass issuing RPGs, a Molotov cocktail could still probably kill a man in Zone armor before we factor in NOD's love of flame weaponry, or even just high explosives in general. And this is ignoring suicide vests or anything else like actual NOD flamethrowers.

Let's not buy into our hype so much.
Who is even saying that they are nothing and will just give up now?!?
 
Who is even saying that they are nothing and will just give up now?!?
I mean the implication of the omake is exactly that the Militia are now lemmings being pushed into the slaughter by commisars confessors. I'd rather not turn the thread into an argument over an omake so I'd figured I'd settle for a simple statement that the insurgents with a history of asymmetrical warfare are going to have tools to fight superior infantry equipment.
 
I mean the implication of the omake is exactly that the Militia are now lemmings being pushed into the slaughter by commisars confessors. I'd rather not turn the thread into an argument over an omake so I'd figured I'd settle for a simple statement that the insurgents with a history of asymmetrical warfare are going to have tools to fight superior infantry equipment.
I mean, the actual canon Militant description pretty much states exactly this:

Nod's elite soldiers, such as the Black Hand troopers and the Shadows, while capable, were relatively few in number. Therefore, much of Nod's military strength came from the millions of militants drawn from the desperate populations of Yellow zones across the world. Since they only receive the bare minimum of training, weapons, and equipment, their power come from their sheer numbers.[1]

While most militants wear no armor at all, some Nod militants were seen wearing Second Tiberium War-era Nod armor, formerly used by the Brotherhood's Light infantry.

Militants were trained using GAU-3 "Eliminator" 5.56mm chain guns, a weapon dating back to the First Tiberium War.[2]

NOD may have had proper soldiers for light infantry in the first and second wars, but in the third the militia formed the vast bulk of their army. Desperate people given guns and pointed at GDI.

Also note that, in some of the descriptions, I tried to make it clear that even old pattern laser rifles can reliably take down zone armor; the NOD group just would have lost anyway because GDI were already sighted up and ready to fire. Conversely, consider how much damage a militant squad does to a zone trooper with their "standard" rifle. While you can take down zone armor that way, actually relying on it is not a good bet. So, lasers.
 
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NOD may have had proper soldiers for light infantry in the first and second wars, but in the third the militia formed the vast bulk of their army. Desperate people given guns and pointed at GDI.

Also note that, in some of the descriptions, I tried to make it clear that even old pattern laser rifles can reliably take down zone armor; the NOD group just would have lost anyway because GDI were already sighted up and ready to fire. Conversely, consider how much damage a militant squad does to a zone trooper with their "standard" rifle. While you can take down zone armor that way, actually relying on it is not a good bet. So, lasers.
I mean, recruited desperate people doesn't mean they're desperate to leave. It's rather noteworthy they're called militias rather than conscripts for one thing. The sheer fact one of the primary threats to Predator MBTs in the Third Tiberium War was fanatical suicide bombings kinda puts paid to the idea NOD is lacking for willing bodies. Now I know there's a lot more that goes into that sort of person than 'fanatic'- but it demonstrates NOD has the cultural levers and institutions to be able to rely on fanaticism in a fairly large portion of their less trained troops. I doubt the context in which the fanatic squads are recruited differs massively from how the militia squads are raised.

Edit: To try and put a finer point on things, I think it's important to remember that first and foremost NOD is a religious organization. And the cultural impact on that religion is so deep and global that every noteworthy warlord proudly claims to be a member of the Brotherhood and Kane's servant/successor/superior- despite the colossal baggage that comes with the name (namely that GDI will shoot them for it). Even in the most cynical of interpretations where none of the Warlords believe NOD's scriptures, that still means the religion has enough penetration in their holdings that they derive legitimacy that outweighs the risk. While there's probably some supra-warlord advantages like intel and tech (but most of that is still going to be derived from true believers)- we also know warlords aren't above fighting each other in canon so it's not just of defending against fellow Warlords.
 
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I mean, recruited desperate people doesn't mean they're desperate to leave.
Okay, you do have a couple good points here. Counter-point however: Just because NOD could have all these levers for their bulk forces, doesn't mean they necessarily do, or that they're evenly applied. If a person has actual dedication to the cause, they're inherently more valuable than anyone else and thus get special training and/or privileges, IE they become a Confessor. I also noted in the omake that they had "true believers" seeded in the militia, and much like turning a protest into a riot that's all you actually need to lead a mob around by the nose. Hell, I specifically mentioned that the would-be Fanatics or Confessors were the ones who might end up with a more modern pattern laser rifle.

Second, what gave you the impression I thought militants were desperate to leave NOD? They surrendered while surrounded by tanks and power armor, all with railguns. They were still thinking about taking a few GDI with them in the seemingly inevitable last stand while the commander gave his speech. And they only decided to give up at the very end, when they'd gotten the idea that, maybe, the reasons they joined NOD in the first place could also be solved under GDI, and without being put in a situation that literally just got them surrounded by tanks.

Finally: A couple of canon omakes here literally include "we joined up because GDI didn't come to Texas" and "I left Nod for an omelet." (No shade on those omakes though, I liked them a lot.)
 
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Now I know there's a lot more that goes into that sort of person than 'fanatic'- but it demonstrates NOD has the cultural levers and institutions to be able to rely on fanaticism in a fairly large portion of their less trained troops. I doubt the context in which the fanatic squads are recruited differs massively from how the militia squads are raised.

That's one of the reasons why the Mecca planned city and the Union / Co-Operative political decisions are so important, to try to counteract those cultural levers and their narrative of GDI being imperialists and relentless capitalists.
 
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