Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

[Lightwhispers]

By engineering them to spread only in Red Zones we get better abatement by having two different Tiberiums eat each other.

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I don't see why you think the GDI has the capability to do anything like this, much less have any confidence in the project's success.

Also, here's a preliminary probability array update from the results of the dice:

Spoiler: Probabilities

-[] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 3) 154/300 2 dice 20R 51%, 3 dice 30R 90%, 4 dice 40R 99%
-[] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 2) 116/320 2 Tib dice 40R 34%, 3 Tib dice 60R 90.81%
1 Tib die + 1 Infra die 40R 19.53%, 1 Tib die + 2 Infra dice 60R 70.27%, 2 Tib dice + 2 Infra Dice 80R 97.67%, 1 Tib die + 3 Infra dice 80R 94.64%
-[] Chicago Planned City (Phase 4) 0/720 6 Tib dice 120R .23%, 7 Tib dice 140R 8.43%, 8 Tib dice 160R 40.27%, 9 Tib dice 180 77%, 10 Tib dice 200R 95%
1 Tib die + 6 Infra dice 140R .09%, 2 Tib dice + 6 Infra dice 160R 4.27%, 2 Tib dice + 7 Infra dice 180R 19.63%, 2 Tib dice + 8 Infra dice 200R 45.92%
-[] Synchronized Cycle Fusion Plants: 289/350 1 die 20R 75%, 2 dice 40R 99.9%
-[] North Boston Chip Fabricator (Phase 4): 116/1200 11 dice 165R .08%, 12 dice 180R 1.24%, 13 dice 195R 7.28%, 14 dice 210R 22.72%, 15 dice 225R 46.12%, 16 dice 240R 69.53%, 17 dice 255R 86.13%, 18 dice 270R 94.90%
-[] Johannesburg Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 3): 308/360 1 die 20R 79%, 2 dice 40R 99.85%
-[] Entari Deployment: 173/200 1 die 20R 100% (with noncanon omake +5)
-[] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 5): 60/400?
-[] Gravitic Drive Development: 40/60 1 die 30R+many tears 100% (with noncanon omake +5)
-[] GDSS Enterprise (Phase 4) 0/770 9 dice 180+R 2.79%, 10 dice 200+R 14%, 11 dice 220+R 36.3%, 12 dice 240+R 62.22%, 13 dice 260+ 82.33%, 14 dice 280+R 93.32%
-[] SMARV Reclamator Fleet RZ-7 North: 141/210 1 die 20R 62%, 2 dice 40R 97.47%
-[] Governor Class Cruiser Shipyards (Durban): 167/200 1 die 20R 98%
-[] Governor Class Cruiser Shipyards (Vladivostok): 66/200 2 dice 40R 61.72%, 3 dice 60R 93.78%

 

[CyberFemme]

I'm seeing an assumption that these autonomous non-sapient life forms will continue to be an asset and not change in some way we consider detrimental, even in the face of normal evolutionary pressures and actively evolving tiberium.

And to that assumption all can I say is:

(A lot of the pics for that phrase have Mr. Goldblum lounging with his shirt open, chest exposed to all and sundry; so a content warning should be put there, they may well give one a touch of the vapors, oh my!)

Edit: Silver lining if they are released though: GDI humanity will be posting a lot more Jeff Goldblum memes, and isn't that worth the risk?

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"That's the, ah, tradeoff."

 

[Dmol8]

Sounds like it'd go wrong very very easily. Also has incredibly poor optics from both public and political angles.

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Could go wrong if we don't bother to make the development a properly tested one and even then there would still be a chance for it to go wrong, but honestly parasitism is an answer just not one to use while we have other options.

And thus the New Devourer was born

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Nah.

I'm seeing an assumption that these autonomous non-sapient life forms will continue to be an asset and not change in some way we consider detrimental, even in the face of normal evolutionary pressures and actively evolving tiberium.

And to that assumption all can I say is:

(A lot of the pics for that phrase have Mr. Goldblum lounging with his shirt open, chest exposed to all and sundry; so a content warning should be put there, they may well give one a touch of the vapors, oh my!)

Edit: Silver lining if they are released though: GDI humanity will be posting a lot more Jeff Goldblum memes, and isn't that worth the risk?

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Life finds a way when the way is near. If you design a life form to have to breathe Tiberium vapors to survive there is a lot less way to find. Not none, but a lot less than with the dinosaur xenomorphs.

I don't see why you think the GDI has the capability to do anything like this, much less have any confidence in the project's success.

Also, here's a preliminary probability array update from the results of the dice:

Spoiler: Probabilities

-[] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 3) 154/300 2 dice 20R 51%, 3 dice 30R 90%, 4 dice 40R 99%
-[] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 2) 116/320 2 Tib dice 40R 34%, 3 Tib dice 60R 90.81%
1 Tib die + 1 Infra die 40R 19.53%, 1 Tib die + 2 Infra dice 60R 70.27%, 2 Tib dice + 2 Infra Dice 80R 97.67%, 1 Tib die + 3 Infra dice 80R 94.64%
-[] Chicago Planned City (Phase 4) 0/720 6 Tib dice 120R .23%, 7 Tib dice 140R 8.43%, 8 Tib dice 160R 40.27%, 9 Tib dice 180 77%, 10 Tib dice 200R 95%
1 Tib die + 6 Infra dice 140R .09%, 2 Tib dice + 6 Infra dice 160R 4.27%, 2 Tib dice + 7 Infra dice 180R 19.63%, 2 Tib dice + 8 Infra dice 200R 45.92%
-[] Synchronized Cycle Fusion Plants: 289/350 1 die 20R 75%, 2 dice 40R 99.9%
-[] North Boston Chip Fabricator (Phase 4): 116/1200 11 dice 165R .08%, 12 dice 180R 1.24%, 13 dice 195R 7.28%, 14 dice 210R 22.72%, 15 dice 225R 46.12%, 16 dice 240R 69.53%, 17 dice 255R 86.13%, 18 dice 270R 94.90%
-[] Johannesburg Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 3): 308/360 1 die 20R 79%, 2 dice 40R 99.85%
-[] Entari Deployment: 173/200 1 die 20R 100% (with noncanon omake +5)
-[] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 5): 60/400?
-[] Gravitic Drive Development: 40/60 1 die 30R+many tears 100% (with noncanon omake +5)
-[] GDSS Enterprise (Phase 4) 0/770 9 dice 180+R 2.79%, 10 dice 200+R 14%, 11 dice 220+R 36.3%, 12 dice 240+R 62.22%, 13 dice 260+ 82.33%, 14 dice 280+R 93.32%
-[] SMARV Reclamator Fleet RZ-7 North: 141/210 1 die 20R 62%, 2 dice 40R 97.47%
-[] Governor Class Cruiser Shipyards (Durban): 167/200 1 die 20R 98%
-[] Governor Class Cruiser Shipyards (Vladivostok): 66/200 2 dice 40R 61.72%, 3 dice 60R 93.78%

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They have samples on record of how it worked and we already built specialist laboratories that could handle this sort of research. As for the confidence that has to come from rigorous testing before deployment.

 

[Woltaire]

how advanced is crispr and genetic editing in GDI?

 

[Derpmind]

So I'm putting together a plan, which is something I rarely do because by the time the results are written up and the new turn is created plans are already set.

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This isn't true. Plans are changed or new ones created right up until the vote opens. And sometimes even after then. It's very rare that a preliminary plan escapes a new update without having to undergo some changes in response to the new turn. Some of us create plans ahead of time as it can be easier to adjust a plan in response to the new turn than it is to create one right on the spot. But it's very much unnecessary.

(All this pre-planing might actually be detrimental, since as can be seen here everyone assumed the winning plan had been double-checked by the thread ahead of time... yet actually no one had done so.)

Anyways, sorry this took me a while cuz' computer problems. Though it looks like @Lightwhispers beat me to the punch here, whoops! Thanks for covering for me, heh. Looks like our numbers almost completely line up, so I guess this is more-or-less accurate.

Spoiler: This Turn's Phased/Staged/Uncompleted Projects

-[] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 3) 154/300 2 dice 20R 51%, 3 dice 30R 90%
-[] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 2) 116/320 2 Tib dice 40R 34%, 3 Tib dice 60R 91%
--Alt: 1 Tib die 1 Infra die 40R 20%, 1 Tib die 2 Infra dice 60R 70%, 1 Tib die 3 Infra dice 80R 95%
--Alt 2: 2 Tib dice 1 Infra die 60R 82%, 2 Tib dice 2 Infra dice 80R 98%
-[] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 2+3) 116/960 8 Tib dice 160R 4%, 9 Tib dice 180R 25%, 10 Tib dice 200R 61%, 11 Tib dice 220R 88%, 12 Tib dice 240R 98%
--Note: This line is presented more as an example of the total cost than anything else, as Infra dice will be used as well.
-[] Chicago Planned City (Phase 4) 3?/720 7 Tib dice 140R 9%, 8 Tib dice 160R 42%, 9 Tib dice 180R 78%, 10 Tib dice 200R 95%
--Note: Bla bla bla Infra dice.

-[] Synchronized Cycle Fusion Plants 289/350 1 die 20R 75%, 2 dice 40R 99%
-[] Blue Zone Microgeneration Program (Stage 3) 40/120 1 die 5R 56%, 2 dice 10R 97%
-[] North Boston Chip Fabrication (Phase 4) 116/1200 13 dice 195R 7%, 14 dice 210R 22%, 15 dice 225R 46%, 16 dice 240R 70%, 17 dice 255R 86%, 18 dice 270R 94%

-[] Johannesburg Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 3) 308/360 1 die 20R 79%, 2 dice 40R 99%
-[] Johannesburg Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 3+4) 308/1080 9 dice 180R 3%, 10 dice 200R 14%, 11 dice 220R 36%, 12 dice 240R 61%, 13 dice 260R 82%, 14 dice 280R 93%

-[] Entari Deployment 173/200 1 die 20R 100%

-[] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 5) 60/300? 2 dice 40R 11%, 3 dice 60R 73%, 4 dice 80R 98%

-[] Gravitic Drive Development 40/60 1 die 30R 100%
-[] GDSS Enterprise (Phase 4) 0/770 9 dice 180R 3%, 10 dice 200R 16%, 11 dice 220R 39%, 12 dice 240R 64%, 13 dice 260R 84%, 14 dice 280R 94%

-[] Super MARV Reclaimator Fleet (RZ-7 North) 141/210 1 die 20R 62%, 2 dice 40R 97%
-[] Governor Class Cruiser Shipyards (Durban) 167/200 1 die 20R 98%
-[] Governor Class Cruiser Shipyards (Vladivostok) 66/200 2 dice 40R 62%, 3 dice 60R 94%

 

[Mre]

Probably won't be for a while, considering that the Initiative still has two more phases planned after the current one, and each one requires another shell plant phase for defense.
I do wonder what the focus on the fourth and fifth expansions will be. The first two were ablative settlements placed in the near Yellow Zones, to defend the Blue Zones and allow defense in depth. The current one is costal, probably because oceanic shipping allows easier construction and supply.
Next will probably be along the overland supply lines and trades routes between Blue Zones, to allow for better logistics. However, I have no idea where the fifth phase will be located.

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If I had to guess, it would loom something like this:

Next phase locks down coastal beachheads, then the phase after expands them through constructing an outer layer to provide more defense in depth for existing beacheads, or opens up more beacheads depending on the situation.

The construction along logistical lines does make sense but I feel like the rail lines are already reinforced and built up because otherwise those rails would be cut by NOD, so perhaps expanding the network of existing fortress towns around them to add more depth?

Regardless, I feel that after a few rounds of fortress towns building up beacheads we'll start to see the towns near the ports that supply them become both far enough from the threat of NOD and tied enough into the global logistics network via ports and a potential civilian air transport system to become the equivalent of the terminus cities for those regions, with more jobs, educational and medical facilities, and industry than the fortress towns who have to worry about rocket and artillery attack. If it wasn't for mutation I'd say such a strategy could long term lead to the growth of new blue zones.... but we don't have that kind of time before the mutation hits.

 

[Shard of Victory]

We should take tea Kudzu soon.

 

[Absoloot]

Now that we've learned our lesson and fixed that MARVs are kinda obsolete again.

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The hubs might start giving abatement too, when we can add in the Tib Inhibitors. They are likely to make a return to prominence IMO

 

[Lightwhispers]

They have samples on record of how it worked and we already built specialist laboratories that could handle this sort of research. As for the confidence that has to come from rigorous testing before deployment.

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I don't believe this is the case.

Anyways, sorry this took me a while cuz' computer problems. Though it looks like @Lightwhispers beat me to the punch here, whoops! Thanks for covering for me, heh. Looks like our numbers almost completely line up, so I guess this is more-or-less accurate.

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Yeah, I think mostly it's rounding differences. (Also, projects that use multiple different types of dice are a pain to work out.

 

[Blazblade]

So once we researched Tiberium Inhibitor tech, is the next step setting up Inhibitor stations? Do we have the ability to set them up in certain Red/Yellow zones or is it a general setup around the world?

 

[Lightwhispers]

So once we researched Tiberium Inhibitor tech, is the next step setting up Inhibitor stations? Do we have the ability to set them up in certain Red/Yellow zones or is it a general setup around the world?

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I believe that it won't be worldwide, but am not sure what level of granularity Ithillid will be using.

 

[KlavoHunter]

I don't see why you think the GDI has the capability to do anything like this, much less have any confidence in the project's success.

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I'm guessing the idea may be inspired by the Creeper World series, where a similar "anti-Creeper" substance is created to fight the blue goo threatening to destroy all life.

Doesn't feel very C&C-y to me.

 

[Chaeronea]

@Derpmind Do you have an estimate on the chances of success for the Superconductor Foundries with 2 dice or 3 dice?

 

[Simon_Jester]

MARVs were supposed to have a +PS bonus attached to every fleet for all the characters who actually knew how to spin politics, but then we went and chose Granger the political idiot so they lost that bit. What we're left with is just kind of a mediocre use of military dice, we can get more exploded NOD troops by just buying the army an equivalent weight in Predator tanks, we can get more money and abatement by using those extra Predators to guard traditional harvesting operations, and the army would prefer the 50 predators over one MARV anyways because they're a lot more flexible and better suited to the Yellow Zone strategy we're taking.

Without the politicians giving us +5 PS for every giant ceramo-titanium manhood enhancer we build, we're left with just the practical numbers on the MARVs and even with Maj. Stavrakas making them vaguely competitive they're still pretty niche and only made sense to do this FYP because we bought the military zero Predator tanks during the first FYP and needed some kind of self-protecting abatement/income source while we rebuilt the army. Now that we've learned our lesson and fixed that MARVs are kinda obsolete again. I can maybe see them making a comeback when mutation gets so desperate that we need to start stripping the base military dice pool out of equipment manufacturing and put them into abatement instead, but until things are that desperate using our military dice to produce more conventional equipment that supports Tiberium dice doing mining/abatement is far more efficient than MARVs.

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True, but I can still see the logic of doing a few here and there to pursue regional strategies and put pressure on Nod warlords we're specifically trying to strangle.

I dunno if the Gideon who's been hassling us in North America is the Gideon from Tiberian Twilight, for instance, but if he is, it's well worth our time to drop as many MARVs as possible on his head. Because in C&C4 he is the poster boy for the "Nod bastards who refuse to let us build the TCN in peace even with fucking Kane telling them to chill" faction.

 

[DecaffeinatedOwl]

@Derpmind Do you have an estimate on the chances of success for the Superconductor Foundries with 2 dice or 3 dice?

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-[] Superconductor Foundries 0/200 2 dice 60R 11%, 3 dice 90R 59%, 4 dice 120R 91%

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Look for Derpmind Probability Array under Informational.

 

[Simon_Jester]

I'm thinking we finish off the Fortress Towns development soon alongside finishing Shell Plants since it gives us housing and expand our control of the Yellow Zones before this plan ends so we can use MARV Hubs in the Yellow Zones for Labor recruitment next plan.

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Fortress towns are an incredibly inefficient and bad way to get +Housing, because it's shitty housing and very expensive. If you want more housing specifically in Yellow Zones, there's a Yellow Zone Arcologies option that is better and cheaper in every way.

That was the price we paid for Mr Tiberium as our secretary. MARVs still serve a purpose though as they act as area denials so they are nice for doing things like protecting our glacier operations while also denying NOD the ability to place bases in the areas the MARVs operate, even more so with the anti-stealth. I do agree with holding off on any more MARVs (R7-N still needs to be finished but nothing beyond that) for the rest of the plan as we do have a lot of catchup to do on mil projects but once we are more caught up we should be able to slip the occasional MARV even to in a sense fortify a region both vs NOD and Tiberium.

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There's also something to be said for quietly mostly-finishing a MARV fleet at the tail end of a plan (when resources are 'cheap' in that they are highly available) and then rapidly completing it at the beginning of the next plan (when resources are 'dear' in that they are scarce)

Doing this with something like glacier mines would be more blatant as a budget manipulation gambit, but MARV fleets cost enough and take long enough to get properly stood up anyway that we could probably get away with it.

We've already completed Tidal Plants Phase 2, with 154 overflow.

In any case, I'm not sure we need Phase 3 at the moment, we have Synch Fusion on the way. I suggest Rail Link Reconstruction instead.

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+4 Energy won't go amiss and is still worth spending two more Infrastructure dice to pick up. It's a good cheap way to spend a small amount of Resources to pick low-hanging fruit and avoid having to leave dice fallow when there are other costlier priorities.

Also, no Mecca. That's a huge problem, because Mecca is not just abatement and capacity and PS, but also an opportunity to further coop NOD assets we can't really afford to pass up.

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Yes.

This sector seems otherwise OK. We seem to have committed to Boston last plan and it's not entirely unreasonable to continue it?

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I'd really prefer to switch to Nuuk now, while we still can without sacrificing MUCH in the way of sunk costs. It would still be more efficient to do so, believe it or not!

Two dice on Chemical Fertilizers has 10% to complete this turn.
2 dice on Macrospinners 3 has 99% to complete.

I'm not convinced we need fertilizers at the moment? We're ahead on food and I'd rather put effort into YZ Purification Facilities and Aquaponics.

Superconducters are listed as High Priority because we use room temperature superconducters in Guardians, and we're only not using it for powerlines because we can't make enough of it for that.

Alternatively, you could go all-in on Macrospinners, because that decreases the cost of Zone Armor projects and we will need that when we transition to all-Zone Armor infantry.

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Speaking for myself, since I have some similar light industrial priorities... The superconductor foundry is very expensive. It's hard to align it with a plan where we're still doing a lot of other expensive projects like drive research and inhibitor research and so on. It's the kind of thing you have to actively sacrifice funding for other projects to, and so correspondingly does not get funded if it's competing with too many other high-value projects itself elsewhere in the budget.

Fertilizers is not needed but would still be welcome, and there are only so many constructive uses of our Light Industry dice when Resources for that sector are tight. I'd be happy to consider Blue Zone Light Industrial Zones as an alternative, because it has ++Health and makes it clear that it makes room for a lot of diverse consumer goods options that are currently falling through the cracks of the centralized planning system.

But I don't want people screaming at me about 'wasting time' on what is primarily a Consumer Goods project, even though my idea is to partially complete it during this Plan and have it ready to quickly unroll as a way to make progress towards next Plan's Consumer Goods target.

I would say Gravitic Drive completes 100% this turn, because the dice bonus and an omake alone will clear it, but I'm a little afraid of calling down the wrath of Murphy.

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I'd say one die on it. It's also the sort of project where not developing it for a quarter doesn't screw us over so much; what matters is that we will have this capability in the 2060s, not whether we get our first agrav powered ship up and running in December 2056 or February 2057.

Wartime Factory Refits is going to be a Capital Goods sink for some time, but more importantly it's a dice sink, and right now we have an urgent air situation to deal with. We did QMAAM and Orca Refit and URLS last turn because of this, and now we need to get them into the field ASAP.

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Note that the first round of Wartime Factory Refits will mean increased production of Firehawks, and more spare parts for Firehawks too as a corollary.

This will itself take some of the pressure off the Air Force, because existing Firehawk squadrons will be able to operate at a higher tempo with higher serviceability rates, and losses can be replaced more quickly and more fully.

If I were Air Force and worried about the current air situation, I'd consider an expansion of Firehawk production to be well worth the investment we're sinking into it. It's fairly clear that the Firehawk is still GDI's main multirole fighter, after all, with the Apollo being an F-22-like rare air superiority fighter and the Orca being a dedicated CAS platform that's basically an attack helicopter.

We will lose the ability to build them up when they reach the Red Zone border. So we should hurry up and get them there.

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"GDI has carpeted the entirety of the Yellow Zones with fortress towns" is functionally equivalent to "GDI has conquered the world and Nod has been reduced to a weak remnant force hiding out in nigh-uninhabitable wilderness full of tiberium."

There's too much else that has to happen to make that possible. It's not... meaningful... to simply say "just do this," when that's the case. It's a bit like the mice voting to bell the cat.

I said I could imagine worse uses of free dice.

I also said that we have a slightly critical need for free dice to Deploy Everything, so maybe let's hold off on the revolution these next two quarters?

EDIT: Seriously, I want Unions as bad as you do, but if we focus on that and drop the ball on the air situation as a result that's as good as throwing Initiative First a bone.

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To be fair, we're taking aggressive steps to handle the air situation quickly and proactively, before the presence of the Banshee-bis on the front lines becomes a critical problem. We don't have to obsessively mash the button with every die we have in order to make an effective response.

So can we reanimate the Biophase of Tiberium as a means of holding back the Red Zone? Like create Tiberium parasites that slow down the spread of the crystal? Or make it easier to harvest from the depths?

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I'm pretty sure we'd just get biophase tiberium creatures that frolick happily in the crystal fields and then periodically come out and attack us.

That, or they'd just go extinct again.

We should take tea Kudzu sooh.

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It's got a lot of popularity and political value going for it, but the problem is its main impact on NUMBER GO UP is Consumer Goods which we're largely ignoring right now due to Going Up fatigue.

I predict we'll see more interest in completing it after we've hit our Food target for the Plan. Although Spider Cotton is attractive in that regard too, because I suspect that the ability to make high-tensile fibers grow on plants chains into an unprecedented "+Capital Goods with Agriculture dice" project.

@Ithillid , am I off-base in that speculation?

 

[DecaffeinatedOwl]

+4 Energy won't go amiss and is still worth spending two more Infrastructure dice to pick up. It's a good cheap way to spend a small amount of Resources to pick low-hanging fruit and avoid having to leave dice fallow when there are other costlier priorities.

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Eh...

You're right, I'm playing around with a Spirit of Christmas plan and I want to put 4 dice towards Rail Link Reconstruction, but...3 dice on Tidal, 2 on Rail...it works. It turns Rail Link Reconstruction into a two-turn project, but we can afford that.

Speaking for myself, since I have some similar light industrial priorities... The superconductor foundry is very expensive. It's hard to align it with a plan where we're still doing a lot of other expensive projects like drive research and inhibitor research and so on. It's the kind of thing you have to actively sacrifice funding for other projects to, and so correspondingly does not get funded if it's competing with too many other high-value projects itself elsewhere in the budget.

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True.

I would still prefer Macrospinners, Superconducters, or Blue Zone Light Industrial Sectors, over Fertilizers. We have plenty of other options for Food in, well, Agriculture, and Consumer Goods besides.

Particularly there's YZ Aquaponics, which are cheaper both dice and progress wise and only give two less Consumer Goods per phase. If it came to using LCI dice on Fertilizer or leaving it fallow, I'd rather leave it fallow and go YZ Aquaponics.

EDIT: Or Perennials 2. But I'd prefer to polish off at least one phase of YZ Aquaponics and Purification before that.

EDIT: Forgot about the minor detail of YZ Aquaponics needing Water...which turns YZ Aquaponics into a 4-6 dice project. Still cheaper than Fertilizers.

Note that the first round of Wartime Factory Refits will mean increased production of Firehawks, and more spare parts for Firehawks too as a corollary.

This will itself take some of the pressure off the Air Force, because existing Firehawk squadrons will be able to operate at a higher tempo with higher serviceability rates, and losses can be replaced more quickly and more fully.

If I were Air Force and worried about the current air situation, I'd consider an expansion of Firehawk production to be well worth the investment we're sinking into it. It's fairly clear that the Firehawk is still GDI's main multirole fighter, after all, with the Apollo being an F-22-like rare air superiority fighter and the Orca being a dedicated CAS platform that's basically an attack helicopter.

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Ah. Didn't consider that.

Uugh, new toy syndrome.

 

[Lightwhispers]

I dunno if the Gideon who's been hassling us in North America is the Gideon from Tiberian Twilight

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If there were such a game, I am pretty sure that he would be the same guy.

+4 Energy won't go amiss and is still worth spending two more Infrastructure dice to pick up. It's a good cheap way to spend a small amount of Resources to pick low-hanging fruit and avoid having to leave dice fallow when there are other costlier priorities.

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Yeah, Tidal Plants 3 is worth doing with the amount of overflow we have.

 

[Phalfpipe]

A+ quest, very fun despite such a bleak setting. I really love the contrast between the players trying to make good long term plans vs the sorrowful posts and journal entries from the poor workers trying to survive in overcrowded housing, choking down fungus bars and finding a way to make their tattered clothes last another few months.

 

[Ithillid]

It's fairly clear that the Firehawk is still GDI's main multirole fighter, after all, with the Apollo being an F-22-like rare air superiority fighter and the Orca being a dedicated CAS platform that's basically an attack helicopter.

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Pretty much. What I am looking at long term for GDI's air force is something of a high/low mix. For the high, I have Apollos and the (upcoming) Auroras as fighter and bomber platforms. On the low, there are the Firehawks and Orcas, both of which will continue to get updates. Both will become these increasingly multirole general purpose designs

speculation

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You are not

 

[Hazard]

I dunno if the Gideon who's been hassling us in North America is the Gideon from Tiberian Twilight, for instance, but if he is, it's well worth our time to drop as many MARVs as possible on his head. Because in C&C4 he is the poster boy for the "Nod bastards who refuse to let us build the TCN in peace even with fucking Kane telling them to chill" faction.

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He is. Yes, he and others will be a problem if we try to roll out the TCN. But he will be a bigger problem if Kane doesn't support the TCN too.

Note that the first round of Wartime Factory Refits will mean increased production of Firehawks, and more spare parts for Firehawks too as a corollary.

This will itself take some of the pressure off the Air Force, because existing Firehawk squadrons will be able to operate at a higher tempo with higher serviceability rates, and losses can be replaced more quickly and more fully.

If I were Air Force and worried about the current air situation, I'd consider an expansion of Firehawk production to be well worth the investment we're sinking into it. It's fairly clear that the Firehawk is still GDI's main multirole fighter, after all, with the Apollo being an F-22-like rare air superiority fighter and the Orca being a dedicated CAS platform that's basically an attack helicopter.

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Wartime Factory Refits will effectively be equal to about 2 years of effective investment in the military due to how much of the factories are running on duct tape, bailing wire and prayers for maintenance. The refits are basically taking factories and giving them all the proper tooling they need to run much more effectively.

And I mean 'our first ZA factories are included, and they will quadruple their production in the process' levels of more effectively. A lot of our legacy production capacity is currently limited by the fact that our tooling and automation is substandard. At a guess it will bump every military subsection up at least 1 confidence level.

 

[BeepSmile]

We got strategic planning and it cost us a fair amount of cap goods. I say we should make use of it and see if we can't put a bit of effort to plucking some of that low hanging fruit for the first one or two of these:


[ ] Wartime Factory Refits (Phase 1)
As a first critical phase of refits, there are the various specialist vehicles that GDI is not at this time looking to replace. Things like the RIGs, Firehawks, and MCVs are unlikely to make any significant changes in the near future. Simply by supplying marginally more capital goods and some relatively simple installations, major improvements in the availability of spare parts and actual fully functional vehicles can be made.
(Progress 0/60: 20 Resources per die) (-- Capital Goods)
(Progress 0/90: 20 Resources per die) (--- Capital Goods)

 

[Derpmind]

Random speculation: If RZ MARVs give increased RpT, and YZ MARVs bring in local immigration, maybe BZ MARVs "specialization" is increased PS. Since they'd be visible and local signs of GDI protection and propaganda (BIG TONK) they'd be worth more PS from the local politicians having MARVs to point to. Still a too-expensive source of PS, but they'd also give mitigation and income and defensibility like all MARVs.

 

[Simon_Jester]

Eh...

You're right, I'm playing around with a Spirit of Christmas plan and I want to put 4 dice towards Rail Link Reconstruction, but...3 dice on Tidal, 2 on Rail...it works. It turns Rail Link Reconstruction into a two-turn project, but we can afford that.

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Yeah, plus we're currently at +5 Energy surplus and that goes fast, so we really do need all the help we can get.

Clearing Synchronized Cycle Fusion gives us +8, but we can easily eat all that up in short order. We're hoping to finish two Governor yards (-4 Energy), and very possibly a production line for something Air Force related or for the ULRS system, which would likely be at least another -4 Energy by itself. There goes our surplus from fusion completing next turn.

Also, we may need to throw Free dice at Heavy Industry for the next several turns if we want Energy and Capital Goods on a meaningful scale in the final stages of the current Plan. Even if we take North Boston Phase 4 instead of Nuuk Phases 1+2+3 going forward (and to be clear, I prefer the latter)... We have a lot of heavy industry investment to make, just in terms of raw dice, and it's all in projects that are 15-20 R/die. There's not a lot of room left to squeeze out more Energy without Heavy Industry dice, and military demand's not gonna go away.

The good news is, we can probably scale back Military free dice spending to something more like 5+2/turn instead of 5+6/turn now that we're nearly done building MARVs, without losing momentum.

I would still prefer Macrospinners, Superconducters, or Blue Zone Light Industrial Sectors, over Fertilizers. We have plenty of other options for Food in, well, Agriculture, and Consumer Goods besides.

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Fair enough- although Fertilizers is a good option if we don't have high-priority industrial chemistry projects running at a particular moment in time.

Particularly there's YZ Aquaponics, which are cheaper both dice and progress wise and only give two less Consumer Goods per phase. If it came to using LCI dice on Fertilizer or leaving it fallow, I'd rather leave it fallow and go YZ Aquaponics.

EDIT: Or Perennials 2. But I'd prefer to polish off at least one phase of YZ Aquaponics and Purification before that.

EDIT: Forgot about the minor detail of YZ Aquaponics needing Water...which turns YZ Aquaponics into a 4-6 dice project. Still cheaper than Fertilizers.

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Perennials Phase 2 is primarily a Consumer Goods project, and its nature means that you want to complete it right around the start of a Four Year Plan so that the trickles do the maximum amount possible to help you clear your Plan targets, since those reset every four years anyway.

As to Yellow Zone Purification and Aquaponics, I see it like this. To be reasonably confident of clearing one phase of Purification, we need 3 dice and 30 R (84; it's only 37% with two dice). Two more dice and we clear Aquaponics Phase 4 (76% chance), netting +4 Food and +2 Consumer Goods for a total of 5 dice, 50 R, and -1 Energy.

By contrast, 3 dice and 45 R into Fertilizer Plants gives us a 59% chance of +4 Food and +4 Consumer Goods for a total of 3 dice, 45 R, and -1 Energy.

We might roll badly and take four or more dice on the fertilizer program, but then, we might have to take 6+ dice on the aquaponics route.

Now, given that we're kind of slow-walking agriculture to just minimally complete our Plan targets, and that cheap, easily activated dice are something we love, there's a good argument for going Aquaponics on the strength of that.

But if we were seriously trying to fill out a Food commitment and actually worrying about it, Fertilizer Plants would be our friend... which, come to think of it, is a good argument for keeping it in reserve for next Plan.

Ah. Didn't consider that.

Uugh, new toy syndrome.

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It's only apparent on a close read of the options and considering that, well. In most strategy games you'd imagine the Apollo replacing the Firehawk, but that's not what's happening here, and reading between the lines plus knowing a bit about how modern air forces handle their jets pays off here.

Furthermore, the Firehawk is fundamentally inadequate against the Banshee-bis, to the extent of itself requiring escort from Apollos. Higher-volume production of an inferior airframe would not in itself be a solution to the Air Force's problems. But with the rollout of the QMAAM (new toy!), the Firehawk becomes more capable of actually posing a threat to the very limited number of Banshees, albeit likely at an unfavorable exchange rate... good thing we have the upgraded factories to maintain our air strength in the face of that exchange rate, huh?

...And yes, I know, we want our fighters to have qualitative superiority, but ultimately what matters isn't having Wunderwaffen that overmatch the enemy's Wunderwaffen, it's winning. It may well be that the most effective anti-Banshee platform the Air Force has turns out to be heavily escorted Orca squadrons that spot the forward bases the Banshees fly from with anti-stealth gear, then blow the shit out of the hangar bays with a stick of bombs. I don't care how much exotic alien technology you pack into your fighter plane, it's not worth shit when it's parked on the ground.

Of course, all of this is happening in the broader context of our continuing efforts to strengthen ourselves in the air, it's just that increased production is also part of the air war, and a very large part of it.

You are not

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I'm not? Nice.

Everyone, while hitting our Food target comes first, Spider Cotton just got promoted up the menu. Seriously, Capital Goods from Agriculture dice!? Too good to pass up.

He is. Yes, he and others will be a problem if we try to roll out the TCN. But he will be a bigger problem if Kane doesn't support the TCN too.

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I mean, if Kane doesn't want there to be a TCN, there won't be a TCN. On the one hand, that sucks for the Earth. On the other hand, it means we don't have to spend resources building the TCN, which means beating the tar out of Gideon gets easier. Sure, in that scenario we'll need to work on orbital evacuation plans instead, but that's a bit more of a gradual process and it becomes self-sustaining as orbital industry expands.

We got strategic planning and it cost us a fair amount of cap goods. I say we should make use of it and see if we can't put a bit of effort to plucking some of that low hanging fruit for the first one or two of these:

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Yeah, though I recommend only putting one die on it in the first turn. We can't afford the second stage of the project, only the first, for now.

 

[aceraptor]

Keep in mind folks: Trying to win a wunderwuffen race with Nod is a fool's errand.

Kane has the Tacitus and the Threshold tower. Nod has consistently held the edge for the cutting edge bullshit against GDI. Trying to beat Nod at its own game is not going to work out.