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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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People do what to save thier planet I don't know why so many people think that everyone is going to be happy with gdi if they don't try their best to do so because it just sounds like letting nod win and their propaganda people will take that and cause people lose their trust in the government not even taking about the panic to get up on one even if we do make enough room people will still panic especially yellow zoners it will matter how much we are doing for them right now they have lived through the "promises" the past gdi made.
 
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Simon_Jester said:
The entire point of maintaining Blue Zones is that there are places left on Earth where we don't have to stick people inside a giant reinforced bunker for them to be acceptably safe from tiberium. We have taken considerable pains to arrange it so. Thus, while I don't dismiss your position in general, I do dismiss this specific argument.
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Tiberium spreads. Blue Zones do not always stay blue. Tiberium mutates, we are going to start losing abatement soon. Even if the thread decides to go for the the TCN, it will take literal decades to complete, and while that happens Tib will continue to spread, and we will desperately try to stop it with more abatement until TCN completion. And that's assuming we don't get any particularly bad NOD attacks in the next decade that speed tiberium growth further.

It's incredibly short-sighted to assume we can keep the blue zones as they are until we have the TCN is deployed. Most likely, some of the blue zone housing we are building now will be yellow zone housing by the end of the quest. Building arcologies prepares for this eventuality.

Simon_Jester said:
Don't you mean the Navy's Yellow Zone evacuations? There's not really anyone left in the Red Zones to evacuate; they're unlivable unless you're a tiberium mutant. That's kind of what makes them 'Red Zones' instead of 'more Yellow Yellow Zones.'

But with that said, yeah, the Logistics cost is a bear. Assuming that it's basically "pay 15 Resources per turn to build housing basically similar to duplexes at a rate of one Housing per turn," which sounds roughly like what the QM is saying, that cost adds up. I'd have to think carefully about the exact balance, but it certainly reduces if not outright eliminates any possible advantage to be had from the grants in terms of Number Go Up.
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No, I mean this military project:

[ ] Zone Emergency Medical Evacuation Vehicle Development
Medical care in Red Zones is a significant problem. Time, even more than in normal circumstances, is of the essence. Not only is the casualty bleeding in most cases, there is severe risk of Tiberium infection, and the only medical care available is usually back at base. A fast hovering armored personnel carrier is a secondary concern, but one that should significantly enhance survivability.
(Progress 0/40: 10 resources per die)

Though we won't know it's true costs until development is done, the description makes it sound like it will cost logistics. If one military project eats logistics, others can as well. It was more of an example that there are many things that will require logistics, and housing may not be the best use.




Simon_Jester said:
The main problem is that demand for space in the arcologies is going to be very high for quite a while and we just can't get them built fast enough to appear fully responsive to the problem. Building a bunch of duplexes may not be the agreeable solution for our purposes, but it would at a bare minimum be quick.
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There is going to be demand, but given our progress so far I believe we have earned the benefit of the doubt from the Developmentalists. We don't have to care about IF and the FMP. We can easily start drip-feeding arcologies the one or two dice a turn that tidal plants get after this stage is finished, since further phases give diminishing power returns. Throw even more dice if we stop giving every single free die to the military.

Remember, we are halfway through the plan, and we have built 2 arcologies, increased consumer goods production from a massive deficit to parity demand, and massively increased QOL in approx. ~2 years. Things are getting better for everyone, we are not neglecting the people by any metric whatsoever.
 
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armentho said:
So between fucking over kane and finding a easier and safer way to stop tiberium and ergo potentially save billions

Then is a painful but worth tradeoff

The chances of developing a GDI TCN are really small

So the only other option is the tacitus wich kane has

So to be clear,kane holds the most likely ONLY WAY TO ACTUALLY STOP TIBERIUM

Otherwise even if we push all tiberium in the surfave the planet will s
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Agreed. Saving lives is GDI's duty and ensuring that billions of lives spared is preferable. But like I said, saving and reclaiming earth is one of many options of going about ensuring that those billions of lives are saved.

Space colonization has been opened as a win condition for the initiative aside from possible reclaimation (through TCN). Abatement measures are working currently and further investment and technology can see the current status of tiberium growth stagnate over decades, allowing plenty of time to safely start evacuation to worlds or stations without the threat of Tiberium. Earth is our cradle. Our home. I understand that it hurts seeing it die out. But its now choking us. Its now too dangerous to remain in it. Even with the access to CTN, it would take decades before project completion as mentioned.

With Space colonization, we can start saving and preserving lives as early as a few quarters and slowly but surely at the start and steadily increasing in numbers as time goes on, begin saving and preserving lives by the millions.
 
We are in a war and unfortunately in war you have to make compromises we need the stuff on it not just for Earth we need it for any planet we will go to nod is not going to give up trying to spread tiberium or someone else will find some and we will probably be the ones that have to deal with it since wherever we're going we're going to be the experts.
 
there is a solution to our dilemma and that is to get the tacitus back , to accomplish this we would need to invest heavily into out military with goal of cracking Nod's major strongholds like eggs until we find whichever one holds the tacitus , not exactly the easiest of objectives but its either that or negotiating with Kane
 
mmgaballah said:
there is a solution to our dilemma and that is to get the tacitus back , to accomplish this we would need to invest heavily into out military with goal of cracking Nod's major strongholds like eggs until we find whichever one holds the tacitus , not exactly the easiest of objectives but its either that or negotiating with Kane
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Tacitus is most likely in Threshold Tower 19.

Which is literally invulnerable. So good luck trying to get the Tacitus militarily.
 
And if Kane knows we are about to get it somehow he will destroy it because I imagine he is spiteful enough to take humanity with him to his grave or just saved the stuff he needs to get out and somehow does?
 
mmgaballah said:
there is a solution to our dilemma and that is to get the tacitus back , to accomplish this we would need to invest heavily into out military with goal of cracking Nod's major strongholds like eggs until we find whichever one holds the tacitus , not exactly the easiest of objectives but its either that or negotiating with Kane
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If Kane shows the solution to Tiberium like he did in the trailer where he just shows the Tacitus to everyone in the room filled with GDI, we can just dog pile him and Yoink it.

Otherwise, yeah. We're out of luck getting into his impenetrable scrin tower.
 
Karugus said:
The Scrin could probably get in. Kane with his Tacitus could probably get in. If we were to set off multiple multi-gigaton explosions and glassed Italy to the crust. We couldn't get in. Not without a revolutionary new understanding of Scrin phase tech.
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That explosion could activate the liquid tiberium and we could run out of stuff to research and not have enough to make the bootleg?
 
ODST-AdvRecon said:
If Kane shows the solution to Tiberium like he did in the trailer where he just shows the Tacitus to everyone in the room filled with GDI, we can just dog pile him and Yoink it.
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Kane wouldn't show up without contingencies for if that happens. He would likely make some of them known ahead of time, but set up so that GDI would not be able to prevent them.
Hence, negotiation to reach a situation that he and GDI can live with. I'd very much like to have a lot of leverage for that negotiation, but do not believe that we can get to a point where we can tell Kane to fuck off without unpleasant consequences.
 
Aerrow Shadow said:
Infrastructure (5 dice)
-[ ] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 1), 2 dice (40 Resources)
Tiberium (5 dice)
-[ ] Chicago Planned City (Phase 3), 2 dice (40 Resources)
-[ ] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 1), 1 die (20 Resources)
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@Aerrow Shadow If you don't mind, for your [ ] Plan Sister Cities and Air Power Alt Military, I would like to make a suggestion. Currently you have 2 Tiberium dice on Chicago, and 1 Tib + 1 Infra dice on Mecca/Jeddah. I believe it would be better to switch a Tiberium die from Chicago to Mecca, and correspondingly switch an Infra die off Mecca to Chicago. This way Mecca gets a die with +20 more progress. Or to put it another way:

Infrastructure (5 dice)
-[ ] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 1), 1 die (20 Resources)
-[ ] Chicago Planned City (Phase 3), 1 die (20 Resources)
Tiberium (5 dice)
-[ ] Chicago Planned City (Phase 3), 1 die (20 Resources)
-[ ] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 1), 2 dice (40 Resources)

We're currently not in any rush to finish Chicago. Its extra processing capacity will be useful, but your plan cannot exceed our current capacity so we don't need it this turn. And we're not looking to complete Chicago's Phase 4 anytime soon due to its high cost relative to its small benefit. Meanwhile Mecca/Jeddah is a high priority for us, and we're likely to want to complete it all the way thorough Phase 3. So I think switching the dice in this way is to our benefit as it'll give more progress rollover to doing Mecca Phase 2.

One complication is that I'm not sure what post the vote tally is reading your Plan from. So it might be difficult to chance the Plan as read by the vote tally program. But if you do agree to this change, I think ust asking Ithillid to roll the dice in this way will work well enough instead.

(Completion percentages for Chicago go from 88% to 77%, and for Mecca from 92% to 97%. But more important is that +20 extra progress from using the larger Tiberium dice.)
 
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In reality trying to predict what he will do is like thinking that a cat will not do something because you said to them just not to do it could be they actually listened but also could be that they are planning or already did something else even worse.
 
Ithillid said:
You will. I am not sure I have clarified it but Scrin tech is a d8 roll. Next time you pull the Gacha, you will roll a d8-1. If you roll a 1, the tech pool will have dried up and you will have gotten all you can. If it rolls a 2+ you can get 1-7 techs from the pool. The time after that, it will be a -2 and the same problem occurs.
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So to be clear, on each roll we get d8-1, then d8-2, then d8-3, and so on, techs, and if we ever roll a zero or negative number the succession stops and we get nothing more?

Hm. In that case, the expectation result on further Scrin techs is... um. Lots of contingent probability...

[Does arithmetic to the sound of No Mercy, my brain needs something like this anyway]

.125(0) + .875[4 + .25(0) + .75[3.5 + .375(0) + .625[3 + .5(0) + .5[2.5 + .625(0) + .375[2 + .75(0) + .25[1.5 + .875(0) + .125(1)]]]]]]

0 + .875[4 + 0 + .75[3.5 + 0 + .625[3 + 0 + .5[2.5 + 0 + .375[2 + 0 + .25[1.5 + 0 + .125]]]]]]

.875[4 + .75[3.5 + .625[3 + .5[2.5 + .375[2 + .25[1.5 + .125]]]]]]

.875[4 + .75[3.5 + .625[3 + .5[2.5 + .375[2 + .25[1.625]]]]]]
.875[4 + .75[3.5 + .625[3 + .5[2.5 + .375[2 + .40625]]]]]
.875[4 + .75[3.5 + .625[3 + .5[2.5 + .375[2.40625]]]]]
(rounding to fewer decimal places to keep numbers manageable)
.875[4 + .75[3.5 + .625[3 + .5[2.5 + .9023]]]]]
.875[4 + .75[3.5 + .625[3 + .5[3.4023]]]]]
.875[4 + .75[3.5 + .625[3 + 1.7012]]]]
.875[4 + .75[3.5 + .625[4.7012]]]]
.875[4 + .75[3.5 + 2.938]]]]
.875[4 + .75[6.438]]]]
.875[4 + 4.8275]
.875[8.8275]
7.724

So... yeah. Reality check, everyone, if @Ithillid goes through with this mechanic, our average expected number of Scrin techs is gonna be about "seven or eight more." We might luck out and get twenty or so, we might roll a 1 next time and get nothing, but the most likely results cluster around something in the high single digits.

The odds of us getting the five techs we need for a full TCN, out of ninety-four remaining Scrin technologies, are therefore... uh, not good.

...

One thing, @Ithillid , is that I agree with the basic logic of this kind of mechanic (though I don't know if the dice are balanced for the way you expect things to be and intended them to be) when it comes to Scrin tech. Because we have a fixed pool of Scrin salvage, and are unlikely to have any more in the foreseeable future, and there's only so much we can learn from it.

However, Nod salvage, intel, and captured hardware is going to be constantly coming in to our forces because we never stop fighting Nod and they never stop doing stuff. I'm not so sure this is a good model for the way Nod research is handled, assuming you're handling it that way.
 
Simon_Jester said:
So to be clear, on each roll we get d8-1, then d8-2, then d8-3, and so on, techs, and if we ever roll a zero or negative number the succession stops and we get nothing more?

Hm. In that case, the expectation result on further Scrin techs is... um. Lots of contingent probability...

[Does arithmetic to the sound of No Mercy, my brain needs something like this anyway]

.125(0) + .875[4 + .25(0) + .75[3.5 + .375(0) + .625[3 + .5(0) + .5[2.5 + .625(0) + .375[2 + .75(0) + .25[1.5 + .875(0) + .125(1)]]]]]]

0 + .875[4 + 0 + .75[3.5 + 0 + .625[3 + 0 + .5[2.5 + 0 + .375[2 + 0 + .25[1.5 + 0 + .125]]]]]]

.875[4 + .75[3.5 + .625[3 + .5[2.5 + .375[2 + .25[1.5 + .125]]]]]]

.875[4 + .75[3.5 + .625[3 + .5[2.5 + .375[2 + .25[1.625]]]]]]
.875[4 + .75[3.5 + .625[3 + .5[2.5 + .375[2 + .40625]]]]]
.875[4 + .75[3.5 + .625[3 + .5[2.5 + .375[2.40625]]]]]
(rounding to fewer decimal places to keep numbers manageable)
.875[4 + .75[3.5 + .625[3 + .5[2.5 + .9023]]]]]
.875[4 + .75[3.5 + .625[3 + .5[3.4023]]]]]
.875[4 + .75[3.5 + .625[3 + 1.7012]]]]
.875[4 + .75[3.5 + .625[4.7012]]]]
.875[4 + .75[3.5 + 2.938]]]]
.875[4 + .75[6.438]]]]
.875[4 + 4.8275]
.875[8.8275]
7.724

So... yeah. Reality check, everyone, if @Ithillid goes through with this mechanic, our average expected number of Scrin techs is gonna be about "seven or eight more." We might luck out and get twenty or so, we might roll a 1 next time and get nothing, but the most likely results cluster around something in the high single digits.

The odds of us getting the five techs we need for a full TCN, out of ninety-four remaining Scrin technologies, are therefore... uh, not good.

...

One thing, @Ithillid , is that I agree with the basic logic of this kind of mechanic (though I don't know if the dice are balanced for the way you expect things to be and intended them to be) when it comes to Scrin tech. Because we have a fixed pool of Scrin salvage, and are unlikely to have any more in the foreseeable future, and there's only so much we can learn from it.

However, Nod salvage, intel, and captured hardware is going to be constantly coming in to our forces because we never stop fighting Nod and they never stop doing stuff. I'm not so sure this is a good model for the way Nod research is handled, assuming you're handling it that way.
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So I am even less hopeful that we somehow get it now like that looks like we are very lucky we even got what we have already.
 
Simon_Jester said:
However, Nod salvage, intel, and captured hardware is going to be constantly coming in to our forces because we never stop fighting Nod and they never stop doing stuff. I'm not so sure this is a good model for the way Nod research is handled, assuming you're handling it that way.
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As I understand it, if we get a new cache of NOD salvage/tech, we'll either get another research roll/project, or it will reset. Same if we somehow get amazingly lucky and get another influx of Scrin salvage to study, but that is unlikely.
 
Simon_Jester said:
One thing, @Ithillid , is that I agree with the basic logic of this kind of mechanic (though I don't know if the dice are balanced for the way you expect things to be and intended them to be) when it comes to Scrin tech. Because we have a fixed pool of Scrin salvage, and are unlikely to have any more in the foreseeable future, and there's only so much we can learn from it.
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Pretty much. And the 12-20ish technologies total that you are expected to get, nearly every one of them is a gamechanger. Even the very low ones are damn useful projects. And the mid to high range are absolute gamechangers. It is shields, plasma, gravitic drives, cold fusion and the secrets of the universe.
Simon_Jester said:
hardware
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NOD on the other hand is useful, but even the very high end is less fundamentally revolutionary than Scrintech, which means that there are many ways (although you have not seen them yet) to recharge/restore your cache of NODtech.
 
Derpmind said:
@Aerrow Shadow If you don't mind, for your [ ] Plan Sister Cities and Air Power Alt Military, I would like to make a suggestion. Currently you have 2 Tiberium dice on Chicago, and 1 Tib + 1 Infra dice on Mecca/Jeddah. I believe it would be better to switch a Tiberium die from Chicago to Mecca, and correspondingly switch an Infra die off Mecca to Chicago. This way Mecca gets a die with +20 more progress. Or to put it another way:

Infrastructure (5 dice)
-[ ] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 1), 1 die (20 Resources)
-[ ] Chicago Planned City (Phase 3), 1 die (20 Resources)
Tiberium (5 dice)
-[ ] Chicago Planned City (Phase 3), 1 die (20 Resources)
-[ ] Mecca/Jeddah Planned City (Phase 1), 2 dice (40 Resources)

We're currently not in any rush to finish Chicago. Its extra processing capacity will be useful, but your plan cannot exceed our current capacity so we don't need it this turn. And we're not looking to complete Chicago's Phase 4 anytime soon due to its high cost relative to its small benefit. Meanwhile Mecca/Jeddah is a high priority for us, and we're likely to want to complete it all the way thorough Phase 3. So I think switching the dice in this way is to our benefit as it'll give more progress rollover to doing Mecca Phase 2.

One complication is that I'm not sure what post the vote tally is reading your Plan from. So it might be difficult to chance the Plan as read by the vote tally program. But if you do agree to this change, I think ust asking Ithillid to roll the dice in this way will work well enough instead.

(Completion percentages for Chicago go from 88% to 77%, and for Mecca from 92% to 97%. But more important is that +20 extra progress from using the larger Tiberium dice.)
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Plans shouldn't be changed after it's already voted for, not unless there was some actual errors on how it can be implemented. So long as it's still workable any changes should be done by voting for a new plan instead.

That and I don't see how it's logical to switch a 11% potential completion rate drop off for a gain of 5%. Overflow or not, the current Chicago phase is useful to complete ASAP for the Abatement values alone.
 
Ithillid said:
NOD on the other hand is useful, but even the very high end is less fundamentally revolutionary than Scrintech, which means that there are many ways (although you have not seen them yet) to recharge/restore your cache of NODtech.
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I am guessing one of the most direct ways of getting more NODtech is to grab one of the major Noddie warlords and shake them like a scorpion-shaped pinata until their cool toys fall out.

EDIT: Grammar.
 
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