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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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I believe, yes, that if I had rolled those dice, the Yellow Zones would expand to cover an additional 0.15% of the Earth's surface that was formerly Blue Zone, while the Red Zones would expand to cover an additional 0.39% of the Earth's surface that was formerly Red Yellow Zone.

Which is all too goddamn typical of our tiberium dice rolls.
 
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Simon_Jester said:
I believe, yes, that if I had rolled those dice, the Yellow Zones would expand to cover an additional 0.15% of the Earth's surface that was formerly Blue Zone, while the Red Zones would expand to cover an additional 0.39% of the Earth's surface that was formerly Red Yellow Zone.

Which is all too goddamn typical of our tiberium dice rolls.
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Fixed.
 
I would like to point out a possibility that I feel has been overlooked for Q2 2056. Aggressively pushing out 3 deployments in order to unlock glaciers for Q3 2056, which we have enough logistics to do 1 phase of.

1 MARV dice
2 Ablat dice 88%
3 Titan dice 76% (this % may have been improved by Phase 2 Macrospinner)
5 RWS dice 94%

Someone would have to do the math, but if Phase 2 Macrospinner has decreased Titan progress, I think theres approximately a 2/3 chance that all 3 get completed in the same turn. An even more aggressive deployment would be chopping the MARV dice to ensure the titans get deployed, although im not sure people would go for that.

The sacrifice would be delaying the govt cruisers, but considering that we have done 1 yard ahead of schedule by winning the 60% chance, I consider the trade off worth it. This would also help to economize as all the deployments are 10R per die. So getting delicious superconductor dice is within the realm of possibility, or pushing out more Entari. Saving R to do a bigger turn Q3 wouldnt be that bad either.

I would also point out that when all 3 deployments finish, the currently locked but completed RZ mining would also auto-complete, giving us a nice R boost as well. So all things considered, the gamble seems worth it.
 
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Jadankorr said:
I would like to point out a possibility that I feel has been overlooked for Q2 2056. Aggressively pushing out 3 deployments in order to unlock glaciers for Q3 2056, which we have enough logistics to do 1 phase of.

1 MARV dice
2 Ablat dice 88%
3 Titan dice 76% (this % may have been improved by Phase 2 Macrospinner)
5 RWS dice 94%

Someone would have to do the math, but if Phase 2 Macrospinner has decreased Titan progress, I think theres approximately a 2/3 chance that all 3 get completed in the same turn. An even more aggressive deployment would be chopping the MARV dice to ensure the titans get deployed, although im not sure people would go for that.

The sacrifice would be delaying the govt cruisers, but considering that we have done 1 yard ahead of schedule by winning the 60% chance, I consider the trade off worth it. This would also help to economize as all the deployments are 10R per die. So getting delicious superconductor dice is within the realm of possibility, or pushing out more Entari. Saving R to do a bigger turn Q3 wouldnt be that bad either.

I would also point out that when all 3 deployments finish, the currently locked but completed RZ mining would also auto-complete, giving us a nice R boost as well. So all things considered, the gamble seems worth it.
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This does push income Q3 except Glaciers are expensive at 30 R per dice and likely needing 3 that is 90 R committed which means we are not starting superconductors Q3 or dropping 2 dice on entari dev. And Glaciers are not great for mit which we really need given how much the RZ has expanded at only 1 mit per level. Glaciers also are the heaviest draw on our military. And are you looking to drop 3 dice on RZ-7N Marv Q3? That is a 52% to finish and if not you are reducing our mit gains (and income for that matter) even further. And without finishing the RZ marv Q3 that is not pushing income as much as you might think, 40-60 +1 mit for Glaciers vs 35-40 and 6 mit for RZ containment and RZ-7 MARV (increase that by 2 more RZ and 2 YZ mit since it will be easier to fit in Chicago Phase 3 as well). Glaciers also drain just about all of our logistics reserve and a phase 3 chicago puts us at neutral or +1 as well. That is not a good spot to be at which means we are using infra dice on logistics instead of power or planned cities.


Also you discount how long it takes for cruisers to rollout, unlike Apollos, Zone Suits and Hydrofoils we are not pushing them out each quarter, there is a fairly long lead time for them to start rolling out so there is a reason to keep pushing until we have 3+ of the shipyards online given the large number we need to take control of the seas.

From the cruiser project: with a cruiser taking months to construct, and longer to fit out for service

Edit-
So I got to thinking what would a Q3 plan look like based off of my plan since it is planning on a 1-2 punch Q2 and Q3, for this I am going with projects that are at 70% or better finish Q2


[ ] Plan RZ Mit, Enterprise and Shells
Infra 5/5 50R +15
-[] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 2) 278/450 5 dice 50 R 99%
HI 5/5 55R +20
-[] Yellow Zone Power Grid Extension (Phase 3) 71/350 2 dice 10 R 0%
-[] Kure Machine Works 78/280 3 dice 45 R 68% (High Priority)
LCI 4/4 60R +15
-[] Chemical Precursor Plants 115/200 1 dice 15 R 46%
-[] Personal Pharmaceuticals Plants 0/180 2 dice 30R 22% (High Priority)
-[] Johannesburg Personal Robotics Factory 0/250 1 dice 15 R 0%
Agri 3/3 30R +15
-[] Yellow Zone Purification Facilities 0/320 3 dice 0%
Tiberium 5/5 85R +35
-[] Tiberium Prospecting Expeditions (Repeating Phase) 2/200 2 dice 10R 39%
-[] Red Zone Containment Lines (Phase 3) 8/180 3 dice 50R 98% (6% Phase 4)
Orbital 3/3 +1 dice 70R +15 (5 Fusion dice)
-[] GDSS Enteprise (Phase 3) 183/385 3 dice 60 R 57%
-[] Orbital Cleanup (Phase 3) 43/90 1 dice 10 R 85%
Services 4/4 35R +30
-[] Fashion Development Houses 91/225 2 dice 20 R 82%
-[] Game Development Studios 236/300 1 dice 5 82%
-[] Domestic Animal Programs 0/200 1 dice 10 R 0%
Military 5/5 +5 dice 160R +15
-[] Reclamator Fleet YZ-5a (Super MARV) 174/210 1 dice 20 R 95%
-[] Reclamator Fleet RZ-7N (Super MARV) 0/210 2 dice 40 R 7%
-[] Remote Weapons System Deployment Predator 0/240 3 dice 30R 30% (High Priority)
-[] Governor Class Cruiser Shipyards (Hampton Roads) 3 dice 60 R 59% (Very High Priority)
-[] Mastodon Heavy Assault Walker Development 0/30 1 die 10R 100%
Bureau 3/3 +15
-[] Cooperative Focus 3 dice 97% for highest DC level
Free 6/6
5 mil, 1 orbital

545/545
PS 55

Income: +10-15 RZ Containment Phase 3 (assume +10), +15 YZ Marv, +25-30 one time orbital cleanup phase (assume +25)
YZ Mit: 3
RZ Mit: 3

Infra 5/5 70R +15
-[] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 3) ???/??? 4 dice 40 R ??%
-[] Chicago Planned City (Phase 3) 107/320 1 die 20 R
HI 5/5 55R +20
-[] Yellow Zone Power Grid Extension (Phase 3) 71/350 2 dice (+2 from Q2) 10 R 62%
-[] North Boston Chip Fabrication (Phase 4) 64/1200 2 dice 30 R
-[] Kure Machine Works 78/280 1 die (+3 from Q2) 15 R 95% (High Priority)
LCI 4/4 90R +15
-[] Chemical Precursor Plants 115/200 1 die (+1 from Q2) 15 R 93%
-[] Personal Pharmaceuticals Plants 0/180 1 die (+2 from Q2) 15 R 73% (High Priority)
-[] Superconductor Foundries 0/200 2 dice 60R 11%
Agri 3/3 40R +15
-[] Yellow Zone Purification Facilities 0/320 2 dice (3 from Q2) 20 R 64%
-[] Entari Deployment 0/200 1 die 20 R 0%
Tiberium 5/5 100R +35
-[] Chicago Planned City (Phase 3) 107/320 2 dice (+1 from infra) 40 R 71%
-[] Tiberium Prospecting Expeditions (Repeating Phase) 2/200 1 die (+2 from Q2) 10R 93%
-[] Red Zone Containment Lines (Phase 4) ??/180 2 dice (+3 from Q2 for phase 3 and phase 4) 50R 92%
Orbital 3/3 +1 dice 60R +15 (6 Fusion dice)
-[] GDSS Enteprise (Phase 3) 183/385 1 die (+3 from Q2) 20 R 90%
-[] Expand Orbital Communications Network (Phase 3) 13/135 2 dice 20R 72%
-[] Asteroid Probe Station 0/??? 1 die 20 R ??%
Services 4/4 45R +30
-??? 4 dice 45 R
Military 5/5 +5 dice 150R +15
-[] Reclamator Fleet RZ-7N (Super MARV) 0/210 2 dice (+2 from Q2) 40 R 87%
-[] Remote Weapons System Deployment Predator 0/240 1 die (+3 from Q2) 10R 73% (High Priority)
-[] Shell Plants (Phase 4) 3/300 1 die 10 R 0%
-[] Governor Class Cruiser Shipyards (Hampton Roads) 1 die (+3 from Q2) 20 R 91% (Very High Priority)
-[] Governor Class Cruiser Shipyards (???) 2 dice 40 R 11% (Very High Priority)
-[] Steel Talon Deployment 0/175 3 dice 30 R 76%
Bureau 3/3 +15
-[] ????
Free 6/6
5 mil, 1 orbital


595/570 +25 one time
PS 45

Income: +10-15 RZ Containment Phase 4, +25 RZ Marv, +5 Tib Prospecting (+40 to +45)
YZ Mit: 2
RZ Mit: 8

This would change based on dice rolls for example if certain areas had better than average dice rolls they could finish Q2 or require fewer dice Q3
 
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Ithillid said:
for populations, you will be small, but Mass Effect, so far as we see in the games, is generally a setting of relatively small populations. 6.1 Billion on Palaven, 1.9 Billion on Digeris, as the major concentrations for the Turians in the Apien Crest. These are the largest known populations, with other Turian colonies ranging from a few tens of thousands to a few hundred million at the high end. Now, we know that there are a fairly large number of major colony worlds that we don't see in the game, likely bringing the Turian numbers up significantly, but to what degree, it is hard to say. Plus a lot of Turians in the Terminus Systems
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Uh. Oh. Nope. Hahahahahahaha...

Read this my post from the Revy thread:
UberJJK said:
Depends heavily upon what aspects of the setting you are changing.

According to the timeline the first Luna colony was established 2069 on the 100th anniversary of Apollo 11 and the first Martian colony on 2103. Eezo was discovered 2148 and the Charon Relay 2149. Humanity's first extra-solar colonies were established starting 2152. The First Contact War occurred in 2157. It is currently 2174.

Following this timeline humanity's extra-solar colonies contribute basically nothing to our population because they've only been existence for a single generation. So all our population growth has to have taken place within Sol.

Current projections from the UN suggests that human population will peak around 2100 at 10.9 billion and basically zero growth. Honestly that is probably a fairly reasonable value for Mass Effect and in line with the canonical Earth population (11.4 billion) considering that Earth is suffering notable climate damage including oceans raising 2m and frequent violent weather effects. The other colonies in the Sol system don't really contribute much canonically as I outline here with the total Sol population only increasing over Earth's by 8 million which is reasonable enough considering Luna and Mars (93% of the non-Earth population) are basically uninhabitable outside (expensive) arcologies. Overall I don't really think the numbers given in Mass Effect for population are really that unreasonable for a civilization that only left its home system a generation ago.


However for the sake of argument lets consider something of a best case scenario. The highest growth rate shown by the UN projections (Constant-fertility) puts us at 21.6 billion by 2100 with a growth rate of 2.114% per year. Continuing that projection out to 2175 gives 103.7 billion people. That does make humanity more competitive on the galactic scale although still well behind even unreasonably low projections of the other species* out there.

*Take the Turians for example. Lets imagine that the Krogan Rebellions, the last major galactic conflict, were unbelievable (as in literally unbelievable) and reduced a millennia old space fairing civilization to just 10 billion people. Lets further say that despite being quite similar to humans they only averaged a 0.5% year on year population growth in the 1,375 years since the Krogan Rebellions ended. That alone is enough to bring them up to 9.5 trillion. Even if we assume they are limited by available territory, which would be odd but okay, they have at least 18 systems (Palavain + 17 Turian Unification War colonies) and from the earlier human projects we are assuming a single solar system can support at least 60 billion so that alone should be 1 trillion or ten times the best case scenario for human population.


Now you could make some fairly significant changes here by adjusting the timeline of human expansion. However that runs into serious issues. For example if you say we started opening Relays back in 2100 that would give four generations of colony populations which while still low would help bump up human populations. However that requires either pushing back the First Contact war ~50 years or somehow justifying how humanity, which was rapidly expansionistic at the time, didn't run into aliens for 57 years of opening every Relay they could find.


Honestly a lot of the claims about humanity, and a fair number of its feats, in canon would be a lot more reasonable if the timeline was more spread out. As I've mentioned previously a fair number of canonical characters should actually remember the discovery of Eezo. In fact considering Revy was born 2154 while Eezo was discovered 2148 (6 years prior) Revy's parents should remember a time before Eezo. If you spaced things so that humanity discovered Eezo in 2148, spent the next century colonizing the neighborhood with FTL ships, discovered their first Relay (which for this probably wouldn't have been Charon) and increased Relay distances such that they spent decades expanding before running into the Turians that would probably make things more reasonable. A 24th century Mass Effect humanity would have first wave colonies with ~150+ years of growth and development behind them creating a strong core followed up by post-Relay colonies with two or three generations creating a vulnerable but valuable outer regions that we've be conflicting with the Batarians over.
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SB had an absolutely fascinating discussion about population numbers for Citadel Space (not even talking about the total numbers for the Galaxy), these are the most constructive posts in that thread:

Too long; didn't read: The aboslute (ridiculous) minimum is 2 trillion, with 10+ trillion being considered the conservative minimum, and the maximum being 200 trillion. With the average number being 60 trillion. Just in Citadel Space.

Now you ask: "But Durabys! Why is the Citadel even entertaining notions of Human Great-Power-dom!?!?!"

Simple. Masterful Astropolitics play by the Council where the Systems Alliance is the useful sucker and patsy, that's why:

Peptuck said:
That's not at all what was happening.

Humans were favored by the Council because human space bordered the Attican Traverse and the humans were super eager to settle what was the Wild West of space. That humanity was also willing to rival and contain the Batarian Hegemony, who were the assholes no one liked among the Citadel associate species. Humanity got favored because they happened to be in the perfect spot, galactically, to push Citadel interests on that end of space, and were perfectly willing to advance those interests in a way that the Citadel found politically viable.
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Operator said:
Essentially this^. The Systems Alliance is the perfect actor when it comes to necessary revisions in contemporary galactic politics on the far edge of the galaxy. Their proximity to the Attican Traverse, Batarian Hegemony, and Perseus Veil forces them to serve a mediating role, and it actually helps to push the Council's agenda without their direct intervention.

As noted by Anita Goyle, they're content with letting humanity act the way it has because the Council doesn't need to take direct intervention to combat threats in lawless or hostile regions, and any repercussions stemming from human contributions will fall solely on the heads of humanity, while any success will have to be accepted as being a result of the Council's own hand in affairs.

To provide greater clarity, since their entrance into the galactic scene the Systems Alliance has:

1) Taken up arms against the Batarian Hegemony's denial operations forces (Raiders and slavers) - their campaign has worn down the Hegemony's resources to the point where they can only afford to focus their energy and collective will towards one target (humanity typically being at the end of the sharp stick for all batarian affairs), instead of multiple Citadel associates and dozens of client races. This benefits the Citadel Council more then the SA.

2) Volunteered their own naval power to patrol some regions of the Perseus Veil in-place of Hierarchy Expeditionary forces. This benefits the Citadel Council, as they no longer need to continue permanently maintaining and sustaining long-range 'interdiction strike groups' operating in distant territory, awaiting an enemy that may never come.

3) Donated massive amounts of resources and credits and manpower to associate race projects and spearheaded diplomatic programs. To fund all these expansive endeavors, they must also open up their doors to foreign investments and alien markets, this is a ripe (though you could also describe it as 'untapped potential') situation for exploitation from corporate and political entities within Council space. In essences, reaffirming ownership and capital accumulation to aliens. I don't think I need to go into detail about who benefits from this relationship.

Their participation in galactic affairs and the consequences of their actions only increases with their rise to member status.

The Systems Alliance appointment to member status was trivial. They're the perfect scapegoat. Any of the Systems Alliance's success can be measured by the Citadel Council's awesome diplomatic/foreign policy. But any failures or repercussions are that of the individual (ex. Sidon), and will force the Systems Alliance into accepting greater loss of power overtime (ex. A Matriarch could wave her hand in disagreement at the direction taken by humanity in researching A.I technology and the entirety of Sol System suffered a sudden 30% spike in the energy sector and losses -> gains measured in billions of credits for a few months). What people don't seem to realize is that all of this comes down to potential and long-term investments - the benefits of integrating assets into the system early down the line. The Council saw the potential and put them on the leash. The Systems Alliance has and will always ultimately serve the Council's or its member's agenda, not the other way around.
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AKA: Humanity is the useful hammer for the Council: The Humans fuck up? It is on their heads and their own PR takes a hit for Team Citadel. The Humans do something totes amazing!balls? It is solely due to the Citadel Council's wise and planned out decissions made in the past and present that the Humans are productive members of Galactic society now!
 
Durabys said:
Too long; didn't read: The aboslute (ridiculous) minimum is 2 trillion, with 10+ trillion being considered the conservative minimum, and the maximum being 200 trillion. With the average number being 60 trillion. Just in Citadel Space.
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Rather than anything actually supported this just seems to be nonsense calculations to support a high number because some people want there to be a high number, rather than actually looking at the numbers we're told. The Citadel, centre of the galactic community? 13.2 million. Palaven? 6.1 billion. Surkesh? 10 billion. These are centres of entire species, governments, and populations.
 
Durabys said:
Uh. Oh. Nope. Hahahahahahaha...

Read this my post from the Revy thread:

SB had an absolutely fascinating discussion about population numbers for Citadel Space (not even talking about the total numbers for the Galaxy), these are the most constructive posts in that thread:

Too long; didn't read: The aboslute (ridiculous) minimum is 2 trillion, with 10+ trillion being considered the conservative minimum, and the maximum being 200 trillion. With the average number being 60 trillion. Just in Citadel Space.

Now you ask: "But Durabys! Why is the Citadel even entertaining notions of Human Great-Power-dom!?!?!"

Simple. Masterful Astropolitics play by the Council where the Systems Alliance is the useful sucker and patsy, that's why:




AKA: Humanity is the useful hammer for the Council: The Humans fuck up? It is on their heads and their own PR takes a hit for Team Citadel. The Humans do something totes amazing!balls? It is solely due to the Citadel Council's wise and planned out decissions made in the past and present that the Humans are productive members of Galactic society now!
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Please stop. This isn't helpful, just don't do this stuff. Don't come into someone's story thread and tell them they're wrong about some aspect of their revised worldbuilding and they need to make numbers go up because of threads on spacebattles from four years ago and-you aren't even linking to the thread, you jerk, those are post-replies.
 
@Void Stalker I dont have the time IRL for a very comprehensive reply, so heres a quick breakdown.

What I have proposed,
Q2 2056
YZ MARV 15 RpT (3 YZ mit)
RZ Harvesting Phase 7 10-20 RpT (1 RZ mit, auto unlock upon completing 3 deployments)
RZ Containment Lines 10-15 RpT (3 RZ mit)
Q3 2056
Glaciers 40-60 RpT (1 RZ mit)
RZ MARV 25 RpT (3 RZ mit)
Total, 40 RpT + 60-95 RpT, 3 YZ Mit, 8 RZ Mit

What you have proposed,
Q2 2056
YZ MARV 15 RpT (3 YZ mit)
RZ Containment Lines 10-15 RpT (3 RZ mit)
Q3 2056
RZ MARV 25 RpT (3 RZ mit)
RZ Containment Lines 10-15 RpT (3 RZ mit)
Total, 40 RpT + 20-30 RpT, 3 YZ Mit, 9 RZ Mit

Assumptions: Both of our plans complete perfectly. Even if the Q3 RZ MARV fails to complete, it will still be 15 RpT + 60-95 RPT. Which means that the low roll of my plan (15+60 = 75), is still higher than the high roll of your plan (40+30 = 70). If my high roll (40+95=135) is compared to your high roll (40+30=70), then it is almost double. If I take off the RZ MARV, since its a coinflip to complete, its still 110 versus 70.

I take the point on logistics, but feel like it can be worked around as Rail Links are fairly quick to complete. Doing the deployments / glaciers and delaying cruisers means that the energy needs are delayed, which means there is some amount of leeway on infra dice. I don't think either of our plans will complete Chicago Phase 3 that soon anyway.

The objection about stretching the military, it is 2 Containment Lines versus 1 Glacier and 1 Containment Line. Where this falls overall, I don't know. However, I note that you dont have Ablat Phase 3 in your plan, which I think means that the overall immediate military strength would be higher following my suggestion, since it is pushing out 3 deployments quickly. Yours would have 1 deployment less. Does that 1 deployment cover the additional strength needed for 1 Glacier compared to 1 Containment Line? I dont know. Only the QM can answer that for sure. Also, more income means more leeway to spend more on military. Those govt cruisers are actually pretty pricey for 20R a die.

I am trying to raise the possibility of quick glaciers, since people seem to be saying we dont have enough income. I have not done an exhaustive analysis, and frankly speaking I don't have the time to. I'm squeezing out some time because I like this quest a lot. If people think the idea doesn't work, so be it. If people like the idea and want to run with it, great.
 
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Can we please stop pushing new MARV projects and investing so heavily into them? That's two turn in a row that the military has come in to pick problems with it and are completely getting ignored in thread. It's clear that beyond the (admittedly very nice) mechanical benefits they have that there are huge narrative problems with focusing so heavily on them that a lot of people just seem content to ignore.
 
Durabys said:
Uh. Oh. Nope. Hahahahahahaha...

Read this my post from the Revy thread:

SB had an absolutely fascinating discussion about population numbers for Citadel Space (not even talking about the total numbers for the Galaxy), these are the most constructive posts in that thread:

Too long; didn't read: The aboslute (ridiculous) minimum is 2 trillion, with 10+ trillion being considered the conservative minimum, and the maximum being 200 trillion. With the average number being 60 trillion. Just in Citadel Space.

Now you ask: "But Durabys! Why is the Citadel even entertaining notions of Human Great-Power-dom!?!?!"

Simple. Masterful Astropolitics play by the Council where the Systems Alliance is the useful sucker and patsy, that's why:




AKA: Humanity is the useful hammer for the Council: The Humans fuck up? It is on their heads and their own PR takes a hit for Team Citadel. The Humans do something totes amazing!balls? It is solely due to the Citadel Council's wise and planned out decissions made in the past and present that the Humans are productive members of Galactic society now!
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Are guys will not tolerate being used by aliens after almost killed by them actually they will have problems in general with them because of that won't they?
 
Cursix said:
Can we please stop pushing new MARV projects and investing so heavily into them? That's two turn in a row that the military has come in to pick problems with it and are completely getting ignored in thread. It's clear that beyond the (admittedly very nice) mechanical benefits they have that there are huge narrative problems with focusing so heavily on them that a lot of people just seem content to ignore.
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gotta finish atleast the ones we've been working on to keep our military person who gives an extra military dice and a +2 to all mil dice. (plus the -20 needed for marv fleets, but that wouldnt apply if we're not doing marvs).

Basically, We gotta continue pushing marvs till we've finished 5 marv fleets, which we will when we've finished building what we've started. (the fleet for the hub just built, and the fleet that we've been building)
 
dbRevned said:
gotta finish atleast the ones we've been working on to keep our military person who gives an extra military dice and a +2 to all mil dice. (plus the -20 needed for marv fleets, but that wouldnt apply if we're not doing marvs).

Basically, We gotta continue pushing marvs till we've finished 5 marv fleets, which we will when we've finished building what we've started. (the fleet for the hub just built, and the fleet that we've been building)
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Part of the problem with this is we keep starting new hubs with overflow from one project. So there's quite a few more hubs under construction than the ones we decided to start building, and finishing those may start more hubs. It's a vicious cycle of unfinished projects scratching at people's OCD 'finish projects' part of the brain.
 
Can we just choose to not have any overflow? Because I'm worried we're really going to screw ourselves over doing MARV after MARV every single turn.
 
Ithillid said:
I know. The thing is that I have basically 30-40 years worth of good interesting material to do the desperate battle against the Brotherhood of NOD and Tiberium thing. Takes us out to 2080, maybe 2090. After that point, I am out of ideas. That is the point where serious crossover elements might end up appearing, because I don't think I can do a satisfying battle against the Scrin, I don't think I want to manage fifty to a hundred years where you are the sole uncontested power of a large stretch of space.
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Although I'm late to the party here, there is the timeskip option where you take a general vote on directionality and then move across time to the next point of interest. Might not be to people's tastes, but the option exists.

Alo357 said:
Not quite such a low number I think and the biosphere was still kind of intact. Earthdome is named such for a reason, it's actually hinted that the major citied are either domed or used to be domed. I know they did have to spend a lot of time rebuilding and recovering the planetary environment before they returned to space.

I mean, at least it's not like the bit where we see years into the future and they'd nuked themselves back into the stone age.
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Garibaldi was such a madlad.
 
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The Second First Moon Landing
  • Apocrypha
    • The Second First Moon Landing

    "I am here in the launch observation platform at Harper SpacePort and around one and a half kilometers west of the Pardus spacecraft, waiting for the arrival of the launch window in a few hours..."

    …

    "Security has been heavily increased, tanks at the gates, aircraft circling the skies and more armed personnel than is usual, even for the heavily defended spaceport..."

    …

    "W3N will cover the mission with regular updates. For a live coverage of the event, watch the official Livestream on the SCED website..."

    …

    With a glance on the cockpit clock Mission Commander Alexei Leonov realized that only one hour remained until launch and cursed under his breath. Time both flew and crawled past at the same time as the launch time ticked down.

    "Hey, language.", Edward Baldwin scolded his co-pilot from the pilot's seat, before returning to going through the pre-flight checklist with mission control.

    "If you don't forget to bag the checklist, I will be as morally upstanding as you want."

    "Hey that was one time in training.", Baldwin complained, causing Leonov to chuckle.

    "Cut it out you two." Anastasia Belika chimed in from her seat at the technical station behind the pilots' seats.

    "Everything okay Ana?", Leonov asked, turning around as far as the launch suit and the chair allowed.

    "All systems green Commander."

    "I meant with you."

    "I am on edge."

    "As are we all.", Baldwin chimed in. "How are the backseat people doing?"

    Confirmation came back over comms, together with complaints about the label 'backseat people'.

    …

    After more checks, more banter and more waiting in silence, it was time for launch. Baldwin pressed a button, a relatively small action for the amount of science that happened behind their backs in an instant. The fusion rocket roared to life, shooting a long jet of superhot plasma out behind them. He carefully corrected the thrust with the lever to his left, as the Leopard began to move across the launch strip faster and faster until aerodynamics finally triumphed over gravity and the massive space plane began to lift off the ground.

    "Aldrin, we have lift-off."

    He started to increase the angle of the Leopard, balancing speed and acceleration all the while. Too much speed in the dense atmosphere would turn the craft unstable, not enough and they would not catch their ideal approach vector.

    Baldwin was only nominally the pilot. The course was calculated by the computer in real time and updates streamed onto his helmet's HUD. At 100 kilometers altitude the flight computer would take over completely, but when a single gust of wind would be enough to bring the Leopard off course man and machine had to work together.

    Finally the barrier was crossed and the Leopards flight computer took over, adjusting the craft's vector before ramping up the engine up to full power, pressing the crew into their seats. A few minutes later the right orbit was reached and the drive cut off.

    "One moment, Pardus." For a moment everything was silent, as Mission Control and the computer checked the orbit's vector. "Orbit is within ten milli-degrees." They finally announced. "We'll wait for telemetry and update you soon should a correction maneuver be needed."

    The mission crew sighted in relief, but things were not over yet. While already on approach for the moon the fusion rocket needed to actually make it back. Right now there was still time and delta-V available to abort the approach. But the telemetry showed no mission critical issues and Pardus entered the cruising stage. A few hours later the Pardus spacecraft officially left Earth's orbit.The door behind the three astronauts hissed as the first relay arrived from the habitation module.

    "Oh look, it's the backseat people." Baldwin joked as he unstrapped and turned around to the newcomers, Tracy Stevens, Arnold Young and Marshall Smith, floating into the cockpit. The six colleagues spent a minute congratulating each other, before they took a moment to watch the darkness of space through the large cockpit windows and the small white-grey ball to their right.

    "2 days, huh?", Smith commented, observing the moon with awe.

    "If all goes well." Belkia added as she got up from the technical station, doing a backflip over the chair in zero gravity.

    "We have like three backups for every system.", Leonov yawned, before turning to Stevens. "Please don't blow up the kitten, while I am away."

    She saluted while rotating clockwise. "Yes, Sir."

    …

    Baldwin carefully eyed the approaching moon on the screen before him, the other half of his focus on the altimeter and the vertical and horizontal speed of the Leopard.

    "Aldrin, we are beginning the landing procedure. Do you copy?"

    "Understood Pardus, telemetry looks good. You may proceed as planned."

    "Understood."

    With the press of a single button did Baldwin activate the automatic landing system. He could feel the rumbling in the machine as the 4 rocket engines on the Leopards underside extended and warmed up. A few seconds later the rockets kicked into gear, pressing the astronauts into their seats.

    To Baldwin's right Commander Leonov groaned in the copilot's seat under the intense acceleration, but as soon as the maneuver burn had begun it was over.

    "Vector looks good. Aldrin, can you confirm?"

    "Confirmed Pardus, you are about to enter the moon's shadow. Good luck."

    "We'll see you on the other side, Aldrin."

    A few minutes later the Leopard disappeared behind the moon for its scheduled orbit and while Leonov used the time to relax until the next maneuver, Baldwin could not look away from the vector display.

    "Something wrong?"

    "Yeah", the pilot replied, going through the various systems he could access from his console. "But it's just a hunch. Take the time until we see the light again."

    …

    "43:13." Baldwin announced cold blooded.

    "3 minutes less than expected." Leonov commented dryly. "Our orbit is too low."

    Baldwin was less calm as he began flicking switches to deactivate the auto landing system. "Shit, shit, shit, why is the thing telling us the wrong data?"

    "Ana", the mission commander ordered calmy. "See if you can reboot the landing system."

    "On it."

    "Smith, get over here. See if you can somehow figure out our actual orbit."

    "Yes, Sir.", confirmed the mathematician over comms, as Leonov was unstrapping from the chair to move to the back of the cockpit to the second technical station. Smith arrived soon after with a notepad and a pen, strapping down into the copilot's chair. Baldwin was emitting the energy of a charged repulsor cannon as he eyed the countless buttons around him, hands firmly on the joystick to his right and the thrust lever to his left. Smith was going through the flight logs and doing calculations on his pad and was better not disturbed. Belika and Leonov were going through the schematics and documentation, trying to restart the system.

    Smith perked up. "We are around 200-300 meters per second too fast."

    "Don't you have better numbers?", Baldwin barked.

    "No, what about the backups?"

    "The backup computer gives us the same numbers."

    "So the issue is with the sensors." Baldwin sighed. "Do we abort?"

    Leonov grunted and tapped the visor of his helmet. "If we aborted this landing maneuver, could we land even with reduced fuel, Smith?"

    "One second."

    Baldwin moved in his chair, staring at the lunar surface below them, occasionally shooting glances at the current copilot.

    Leonov punched the console in frustration. "Smith, Baldwin, get us into a stable orbit. Let Aldrin figure out our current orbit and resend the landing system software. Let's see if they can figure out new landing orders."

    …

    The second attempt was in progress and everyone was strapped into their seats again. Aldrin had indeed managed to solve the technical issues by resending the system software and had calculated a new landing attempt, but it would be close. The landing fuel reserve was basically nonexistent after the extra maneuver.

    The deorbit burn began, mirroring the previous attempt. A few seconds of high perceived gravity, then silence.

    This time the time until the horizon became visible was correct.

    A second burn, the surface now visibly getting closer. The Leopard rotated into the right position via RCS, the bottom now pointed towards the surface. The automatic landing system once more began to work, scanning the surface below with short laser pulses to figure out its position, speed and distance.

    The Leopard was now sinking fast, the surface speeding past faster and faster. Baldwin quickly glanced at the altimeter, still nervous about trusting in the machine, but there was no stopping it now.

    Then the final burn began and with it the final descent. The Leopard shook under the stresses placed upon the frame as the four oxygen-hydrogen rockets fought against gravity and inertia. Painful seconds passed as the ground came closer and closer. Baldwin's eyes were glued to the altimeter.

    Not fast enough, not fast enough.

    Then the engines cut off and the Leopard dropped the last painful meters, crashing onto the lunar surface with a sound that reverberated through the vessel's structure. The vessel bounced up a few uncomfortable centimeters, before finally resting in the lunar regolith.

    A few painful moments passed in which everyone listened to the breath of their fellow astronauts through comms, before Aldrin shook them out of their stasis.

    "Pardus, status?"

    "Here is Commander Alexei Leonov. Pardus has landed, I repeat Pardus ha-."

    The rest went under in the applause and celebration in the Aldrin control centre and the more restrained congratulations on the moon.

    …

    8 pairs of eyes were focused on the feed streamed by Steven's and Belika's helmet cams as the two inspected the Leopard landing gear. The landing had been rougher than anticipated and at least two were damaged according to the internal systems.

    Belika cursed in russian as she looked up the gears into the Leopard. "Bad news boys, Gear 3 is bent really badly."

    She moved so the feed gave a better overview of the situation and Stevens lit the compartment out with a bright flashlight. Leonov found the damage to not be critical. While bent, it still supported the Leopard's weight without problems and Pardus did not exactly need to be aerodynamic to launch from the moon.

    Pushkin grimaced as the two women went to inspect the other gears. "Looks like we won't make a heroic landing back on earth with that."

    "We won't." Baldwin agreed and scratched his head. "Good thing we don't need to."

    "Aldrin", addressed the commander the always listening support crew on earth. "any thoughts?"

    "The engineers are still debating, but Carter is already working on setting the Enterprise up for your return."

    "How do we even plan to get this thing back to earth with one fourth of the landing gear missing?"

    "We refuel it in orbit, cut off the bent gear and land very carefully with the VTOL system."

    "The one that failed us?"

    "Yes."

    Belika used the moment to chime in while she was working on gear 4. "Did you figure out why the system broke?"

    The Aldrin operator sighed. "Not yet, the techs have like 20 gigs of logs to work through."

    "You could almost guess this mission was rushed for political reasons."

    The comment resulted in a general approving grumble from the others, before Stevens and Belika gave the okay for gear 4 and the mission began in earnest.

    …

    6 of the 8 crew members had assembled outside, with two 2 having to remain inside the Leopard for safety reasons. Commander Leonov removed a very special item from a steel container, holding it with the utmost care.

    The GDI flag.

    Baldwin stood a few meters away, doing his best to film the event with a vacuum modified camera, streaming it back to Aldrin Command via the Pardus spacecraft long range comms.

    Leonov had been part of many official events, but this one was worse. Thousands of people were watching him and he was afraid to accidentally fall down with the heavy space suit and drop the flag in the regolith. It was made from a variety of metal strands and in the airless environment of the moon its colors would never fade.

    With a quick movement he rammed the flagpole into the hard lunar surface, making sure it was stuck correctly. Before he expanded it, the metallic fabric was held in place by a vertical piece of metal.

    Leonov took a step back and saluted the flag, thinking about how Baldwin was currently splicing a recording of him over the footage, because he really was not confident in his ability to not crack under the pressure. Carter had suggested the measure, soothing Leonov's conscience with the fact the speech was still written and recited by him, the mission commander.

    Baldwin gave the signal that the recording was over and Leonov relaxed, moving away from the flag to start unloading the mission modules from the cargo bay.

    ...

    "The Pardus mission carries with them a number of support equipment. This includes five folded up solar panel arrays to support power generation during the day time of the mission..."

    …

    "The rover named Moonbull will extend the astronauts' range. Derived from a heavily cut down Pitbull, the Moonbull has been fitted with a general purpose module slot to carry around either a ground penetrating radar or a sample drill…"

    …

    "Due to safety reasons the Moonbull cannot exceed a speed of 20 kilometers per hour, this means that its range is limited by the amount of life support that can be carried by the passengers, which is around 4 hours, with 30 minutes of emergency reserve…"

    …

    Smith sighed in relief as the drill began slowly rumbling, digging deeper into the lunar ground. Assembling the damn thing had been less than optimal with the somewhat clumsy suits and Pushkin had almost fallen down two times while carrying the extender drill bits. Watching the drill slowly disappear into the ground however was very vindicating for the work they had put into what could be done on Earth in a few minutes.

    A few minutes later the first extender shaft disappeared and Pushkin began recovering the first sample. Smith turned around to pick up one of the sample cylindres from the tray, opening it so the geologist could insert the very boring looking grey cylinder of 5 meter deep moon rock.

    Smith could only imagine how smug Pushkin was feeling right now. No one had imagined that his geology degree would be of any use at Space Command, ever, and there he was now, installing another extender for the 10 meter sample.

    …

    Young could think of many things more glorious than the current assignment as he drove the Moonbull painfully slow over the rocky lunar surface. Pardus landing near the landing site of Apollo 12 was on purpose, but the 'official' reason was not the true one.

    Next to him, Stevens could not stop giggling. Young only hoped their mission would come across as professional as Apollo 11 did.

    "Look", she had spotted it before him, a tiny bright spot as the sun reflected off the metal surface: the remains of the Apollo 12 mission. 11 was off-limits. With so many of mankind's cultural sites and artifacts either eaten by Tiberium or lost in conflict, the site of Mankind's first steps on the moon remained safe and untouched, millions of kilometers from earth. Young had seen the proposals to preserve the landing site, from armored glass domes to concrete bunkers placed atop it.

    When they had reached a walkable distance Young brought the Moonbull to a slow hold and got out. Exiting the vehicle in the somewhat clunky space suits was more difficult than he remembered from the few months of training the crew had done. Lunar gravity made many things more complicated. But as he and Stevens came closer to the site, he felt a sense of awe, as the details of the landing module became clearer. Almost a hundred years ago man had set foot on their closest planetary neighbour with so much less advanced technology. The moon landings had been the pinnacle of mankind's combined scientific and cultural achievements, motivated of course by the space race between the United States of America and the Soviet Union. Young gave himself a moment to imagine what the world could have been, had Tiberium and Nod not thrown humanity into a new dark age.

    Stevens got him out of his thoughts. "Come on."

    The two waddled the remaining distance and Stevens' good eyes spotted the target before him, which he noticed because she started giggling again.

    "Look, it's 70 year old shit."

    She pointed at the grey-white bags next to the landing module. It was an open secret that all Apollo missions left some behind. The biomass inside these bags was of high interest to researchers back on earth, having been exposed to vacuum and cosmic radiation for decades.

    Young sighed. "Let's take the samples."

    …

    The day period of the mission was over and the Pardus landing site was covered in perpetual darkness. Without the extra energy from the solar arrays the Moonbull could not be charged, and the power from RTGs was just enough to keep the Leopard functional, thus restricting the range to a few hundred meters from the site. Over the last two weeks the crew had taken hundreds of underground samples from a large area and the last week would be spent taking samples from as deep as possible.

    Right now however would be spent differently. Leonov had ordered everyone into the cockpit after Lee and Fischer had come back from their outside shift.

    "So Leo, what's this about?", asked Lee as she stretched the increasingly uncomfortable spacesuit out of her joints.

    "I hereby order a break from work.", he answered as he removed a few dehydrated food powder bags from one of the supply containers. "Make use of the darkness."

    "We are gonna do some stargazing." Baldwin added as he swiveled in the pilots chair and pointed upwards through the cockpit windows.

    "And I see this as a good opportunity to pass out the morale rations." Leo held up the powder bags. "Coffee, tea or cocoa?"

    Stevens was the one to first grab herself a coffee ration and disappear into the habitation module on route to the hot water dispenser. "Blessed be the Admiral."

    Soon everyone had a hot beverage of their choice and sat down in the cockpit as comfortably as was possible with 10 people in such a tight space. Belika deactivated all lights from the technical console and activated the shutters on the left so earth was not visible through the windows. Darkness fell over the crew as they peered through the upper windows and, as their eyes adjusted, more and more stars became visible and for a minute they simply enjoyed the experience.

    However, Baldwin had to ruin the moment with a comment: "They are still out there, somewhere."

    And suddenly the bright spots in the dark lunar sky seemed less friendly.

    …

    "Allright, Ladies and Gentlemen, please fasten your seatbelts." Baldwin announced over comms. The re-ignition system for the fusion drive had been spooling up for the last few hours, but the flywheels' rotation was not noticeable thanks to the expertly designed magnetic suspension. 1 ton of steel rotating with several thousand rpm was enough to make a man feel anxious, especially with the technical problems they were having since this mission started.

    But so far everything had gone well. Stevens, today at the helm of the technical station had monitored the flywheels' spin up and the system worked flawlessly.

    "Here goes nothing." With the tilt of a few switches the Leopard's underside rockets activated, spewing hot blue plasma into the ground, glassing the surface. Slowly the pilot increased the thrust until the Leopard was lifting off the lunar surface.

    To his right Leonov was communicating with mission command, but Baldwin did not care. "Aldrin, we have liftoff."

    He retracted the landing gear, but as expected gear 3 gave them an error message when trying to retract. It was no big problem, an updated flight model had been preloaded, which Stevens activated with the press of a button on her console. Baldwin sighed as he eyed the big red button in front of him.

    "Here goes nothing."

    As he pressed it several things happened. The massive flywheels in the back of the leopard came to a screeching halt, with accelerations just under the safety margins calculated by SCED. The massive sudden power output was funnelled through superconducting power lines back into the fusion engines, where the might of a small star was sparked.

    The sudden acceleration pushed everyone into their seats, the power feeling twice as strong after living three weeks in weak lunar gravity. The Leopard shot forward, carried by both the superhot jet of plasma in its back and the blue exhausts of the VTOL engines at the bottom. Faster and faster sped the Pardus spacecraft away across and away from the moon until it would have been only a small bright star in the lunar night sky.

    Nobody said a word as they clenched their teeth and breathed heavily under the pressure, praying that the automatic systems were putting them on the right vector back towards earth.

    After a few minutes zero gravity returned as the engine stopped firing, leaving the ten astronauts light headed and exhausted. Baldwin looked over to his copilot, only to see a checklist float to the front to the cockpit, rotating comically slowly.

    "Ed?" Leonov sighed and took off his helmet.

    "Yes."

    "Did you forget to bag the list?"

    …

    "The Pardus mission had a successful launch and is now on route back to earth. Carrying with them over 20 tons of samples. Yesterday a SCED spokesperson announced that the samples would be given out for public research after the Exploratory Division has done some preliminary analysis of the new material."

    "Due to a broken landing gear the Pardus spacecraft won't be able to re-enter earth's atmosphere, instead it will dock with Enterprise Station, where preparations for the astronauts arrival are already underway, with Admiral Carter having flown up yesterday to personally oversee the preparations."

    …

    Stevens could barely walk. She was exhausted and tired. Normal, but artificial, Earth gravity pulled hard on her, as she walked through the connection tunnel. The Leopard had successfully entered the right orbit, but had to be pushed the last few kilometres by an orbital shuttle, lengthening the docking time significantly. By now everyone had been awake for 18 hours and only Leonov was unaffected by the lack of sleep as usual.

    The amount of applause that crashed against her as they left the tunnel was enough to wake her up again. Dumbfounded and unsure what to do, she stood there for a moment, while Leonov and a few others were already doing the talking and politics, shaking hands and doing small talk.

    Only the tall frame of the Admiral moving in front of her brought her out of her tiredness induced isolation. Stevens immediately stood to attention and moved to salute her superior, but Carter shook his head.

    "Not today, Stevens."

    "Allright, Sir."

    Carter smiled and saluted her, before glancing into a corner, where two camera operators were filming the scene. "I know you are tired, but ten more minutes and a health check up and you all can get some deserved rest."

    Stevens could feel the tiredness disappear as she straightened up and returned the salute. Carter nodded, shaking her hand before moving on to the rest of her colleagues, exchanging some words with Baldwin who held a water bottle in her hand. Stevens took a look around, in search of the water bottle's source. After she found it, she grabbed one and resumed conversation with renewed energy.
     
  • Apocrypha
    • Jadankorr said:
    @Void Stalker I dont have the time IRL for a very comprehensive reply, so heres a quick breakdown.

    Q2 2056
    YZ MARV 15 RpT (3 YZ mit)
    RZ Harvesting Phase 7 10-20 RpT (1 RZ mit, auto unlock upon completing 3 deployments)
    RZ Containment Lines 10-15 RpT (3 RZ mit)
    Q3 2056
    Glaciers 40-60 RpT (1 RZ mit)
    RZ MARV 25 RpT (3 RZ mit)
    Total, 40 RpT + 60-95 RpT, 3 YZ Mit, 8 RZ Mit

    What you have proposed,
    Q2 2056
    YZ MARV 15 RpT (3 YZ mit)
    RZ Containment Lines 10-15 RpT (3 RZ mit)
    Q3 2056
    RZ MARV 25 RpT (3 RZ mit)
    RZ Containment Lines 10-15 RpT (3 RZ mit)
    Total, 40 RpT + 20-30 RpT, 3 YZ Mit, 9 RZ Mit

    Assumptions: Both of our plans complete perfectly. Even if the Q3 RZ MARV fails to complete, it will still be 15 RpT + 60-95 RPT. Which means that the low roll of my plan (15+60 = 75), is still higher than the high roll of your plan (40+30 = 70). If my high roll (40+95=135) is compared to your high roll (40+30=70), then its quite a bit more. If I take off the RZ MARV, since its a coinflip to complete, its still 110 versus 70.

    I take the point on logistics, but feel like it can be worked around as Rail Links are fairly quick to complete. Doing the deployments / glaciers and delaying cruisers means that the energy needs are delayed, which means there is some amount of leeway on infra dice. I don't think either of our plans will complete Chicago Phase 3 that soon anyway.

    The objection about stretching the military, it is 2 Containment Lines versus 1 Glacier and 1 Containment Line. Where this falls overall, I don't know. However, I note that you dont have Ablat Phase 3 in your plan, which I think means that the overall immediate military strength would be higher following my suggestion, since it is pushing out 3 deployments quickly. Yours would have 1 deployment less. Does that 1 deployment cover the additional strength needed for 1 Glacier compared to 1 Containment Line? I dont know. Only the QM can answer that for sure.

    I am trying to raise the possibility of quick glaciers, since people seem to be saying we dont have enough income. I have not done an exhaustive analysis, and frankly speaking I don't have the time to. I'm squeezing out some time because I like this quest a lot. If people think the idea doesn't work, so be it. If people like the idea and want to run with it, great.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    You are ignoring Chicago in that for mitigation and tib prospecting for another 5 income. Also getting RZ MARV out in Q3 without any dice on it Q2 means 3 dice for 60 for a 52% chance (right now I have budgeted 4 dice total, 2 Q2 and 2 Q3). So Q3 you have 150 R tied up in 3 dice on glaciers and 3 dice on RZ marv (and the 2nd is basically a 50/50 shot to finish). That changes the math on how much income you can expect coming Q3 because that RZ can easily miss. That is also discounting what that high amount of R will do to trying to get projects like Superconductor underway. As for rail links we are running into a major energy crunch in the coming turns at the same time we need some major cap good rollouts to do the tasks we need to hit plus hit plan goals. Which means HI dice are going to be hard pressed to be used for energy which means more tidal gens which means Rail Networks is not affordable. So unless you are looking to energy and logistics crunch glacier hurts a lot in forcing us onto rail and away from tidal and planned cities. As for delaying cruisers, cruisers are as much energy as a titan rollout and really delaying cruiser is such a bad idea for naval control more so given that there are areas that are supplied solely by sea. Delaying cruisers does not stop the energy crunch since that is coming from HI and LCI projects as well.

    As for 2 Containment vs 1 Glacier and 1 Containment it is fairly clear that the first is less stress on the military than the other, given that one project was hard blocked while the other is open and mil factories count towards what our mil can do not just deployments.

    More realistic:
    Q2 2056
    YZ MARV 15 RpT (3 YZ mit)
    RZ Harvesting Phase 7 10-20 RpT (1 RZ mit, auto unlock upon completing 3 deployments)
    RZ Containment Lines 10-15 RpT (3 RZ mit)
    Q3 2056
    Glaciers 40-60 RpT (1 RZ mit)
    RZ MARV 25 RpT (3 RZ mit) (52%)
    Total, 27.5 (25*.52) + 60-95 3 YZ Mit, 6.5 RZ Mit, opportunity cost: higher than normal R per dice in Tib and Mil

    What you have proposed,
    Q2 2056
    YZ MARV 15 RpT (3 YZ mit)
    RZ Containment Lines 10-15 RpT (3 RZ mit)
    Q3 2056
    RZ MARV 25 RpT (3 RZ mit)
    Tib Prospecting 5 Rpt
    RZ Containment Lines 10-15 RpT (3 RZ mit)
    Chicago Phase 3 2 YZ mit, 2 RZ mit
    Total, 45 RpT + 20-30 RpT, 5 YZ Mit, 11 RZ Mit
    Also able to start superconductors Q3

    Edit- Also of note I can pull dice off Governors Q3 to put on Ablat to get the 3 deployments for adding RZ Harvest Phase 7 in Q3, that is a variant that shifts to
    Total, 45 RpT + 30-50 RpT, 5 YZ Mit, 12 RZ Mit. And all of this without stressing logistics nor causing delays in important HI and LCI projects

    Vehrec said:
    Part of the problem with this is we keep starting new hubs with overflow from one project. So there's quite a few more hubs under construction than the ones we decided to start building, and finishing those may start more hubs. It's a vicious cycle of unfinished projects scratching at people's OCD 'finish projects' part of the brain.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    The main reason has been to keep income growing, mitigation increasing and hitting those plan goals while we did some military consolidation since MARVs are much less stressful on the mil and with the high dice we have been pumping into mil we are pulling ahead. As is if we can knock off YZ-5a and RZ-7N I do not see doing any MARV projects Q4 and instead pushing out a bunch of Mil stuff and using Planned Cities, Vein mining and tib prospects to let us consolidate.

    Cursix said:
    Can we just choose to not have any overflow? Because I'm worried we're really going to screw ourselves over doing MARV after MARV every single turn.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    That would be a poor idea as down the line we will want to bring these online and the overflow saves a die later most of the time, there is 0 benefit to not having overflow and a cost to stopping it.
     
    Last edited:
    Simon_Jester said:
    The thing is... the Mass Effect Council races don't really have a concept of a politically divided species. They're going to see GDI as "the human government" and any trouble Nod creates, they are likely to complain to us about. This will create considerable pressure on the galactic stage for us to take responsibility for suppressing any problems they have with Nod.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Actually, the Council Races do have a concept of politically divided species. The Asari Republics are plural for a reason, even if the asari Councilor represents the entire species' interests. Even the Salarian Union isn't that unified, given their propensity for skullduggery and spycraft.

    The most unified species in Mass Effect are the turians, due to the Turian Hierarchy, and the quarians with the Migrant Fleet. Everyone not named we just don't have enough of a grasp of to be sure about how unified those species are into a single government.

    Now, that doesn't mean that the Council won't complain about Nod causing trouble, but GDI actually has a really good argument for dealing with that. It's called 'look, we do not like slavers and terrorists either, but it is not as if you guys are doing anything to stomp on any of those from your species making a mess in our space'.
     
    The military isn't saying we should stop doing MARV projects. They're saying they'd prefer 10 dice in military projects instead of 7 dice. Which of course they'd want even more dice, and they're not wrong that it'd help them more too. But we're more likely to spend those 2-3 free dice on other non-military projects when we wind down MARVs than we are to increase the Military dice to 10 or 11 dice.

    @BOTcommander It was fun reading the "second first" moon landing. Those little small mistakes and bumps along the ride really helped bring it all to life.
     
    Last edited:
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