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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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Simon_Jester said:
So we now need only five such technologies! The bar we need to clear is lower! SCORE! :D

But yeah, I get you. On the other hand, that makes it sound like we can develop a Tiberium Partial Control Network (henceforth known as the TpCN). Which would be something recognizable as a half-assed and inadequate TCN.

If we can pull that off, then maybe Kane may actually have reason to worry that we could finish the whole job without him, or at least get close enough that he loses a lot of the leverage he has from possession of the Tacitus. He may be incentivized to come to the table sooner, while he still has a lot to offer us, rather than later. So that's something.
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The two we have (will be getting, since they're not ready for deployment) slow down the mutation rate, and slow growth... so, yeah, Kane getting worried by that, especially if we can also put pressure on his other levers (military strength relative to NOD, and population IN SPAAAACE as the big ones), definitely would make sense.
One of the things I am hoping for is more background data on the TCN, to be able to actually understand it, and also to get the best version we can.
 
Okay, I'm going to put together a preliminary plan because why the hell not.

[]Plan Power-Up
-[] Infrastructure ( 5/5 dice) [ 80 Resources]
--[] Tidal Power Plants (157/200 ) (10 Resources)
---[] 1 dice
--[] Fiber-Optic Expansion (105/240 ) (40 Resources)
---[] 2 dice
--[] Blue Zone Arcologies (Phase 1) (304/450) (30 Resources)
---[] 2 dice
-[] Heavy Industry ( 5/ 5 dice ) [ 70 Resources]
--[] Fusion Power Prototype (124/200 ) (20 Resources)
---[] 1 dice
--[] Blue Zone Power Production (Phases 2) (346/550 ) ( 30 Resources)
---[] 3 dice
--[] Union Class Construction Yard (137/180 ) ( 20 Resources)
---[] 1 dice
-[] Light and Chemical Industry ( 3/ 3 dice +2 free dice) [100 Resources]
--[] Bulk Plastics Facilities (126/200 ) ( 10 Resources)
---[] 1 dice
--[] Superconductor Foundries (0/200 ) ( 90 Resources)
---[] 3 dice
--[] Security Reviews - Light and Chemical Industry
---[] 1 dice
-[] Agriculture ( 3/3 dice) [30 Resources]
--[] Perennial Aquaponics Bays (106/350 ) ( 30 Resources)
---[] 3 dice
-[] Tiberium ( 3/5 dice) [70 Resources]
--[] Red Zone Containment Lines (Phase 3) (8/180) (50 Resources)
---[] 2 dice
--[] Chicago Planned City (41/80) (20 Resources)
---[] 1 dice
-[] Orbital (3/3 dice) (2 Fusion) [45 Resources]
--[] GDSS Shala (Phase 1) (0/90) ( 20 Resources)
---[] 1 Fusion dice
--[] Orbital Cleanup (1/90) (25 Resources)
--[] 1 dice + 1 Fusion dice
-[] Services (3/4 dice) [15 Resources]
--[] Game Development Studios (0/300) (20 Resources)
---[] 3 dice
-[] Military (5/ 5 dice + 2 free dice) [110 Resources]
--[] Reclamator Hub Red Zone 1 North (0/105 ) (40 Resources)
---[] 2 dice
--[] Super MARV Reclamator Fleet (RZ-6 South) (136/210) ( 40 Resources)
---[] 2 dice
--[]Remote Weapon Systems Development Predator (0/40) (10 Resources)
---[]1 dice
--[]Point Defence Refits (15/250) (20 Resources)
---[] 2 dice
-[] Bureaucracy (3/ 3 dice)
--[] Security Reviews - Light and Chemical Industry
---[] 3 dice


Resources: 490 + 30 reserve
Expenditure: 520 [80+70+100+30+70+45+15+ 110 ]
Remaining:

* Tidal Power Plants to supply more Energy
* Fiber Optic Expansion produces Consumer Goods and also Logistics without requiring Energy
* Blue Zone Arcologies to supply Housing and Consumer Goods for a minimal Energy cost
* Fusion Power Prototype to unlock the Fusion tech tree, leading to more options to generate Energy
* Blue Zone Power Production to build more Energy options in the future.
* Union Class Construction Yard to get more Orbital dice.
* Bulk Plastics to get some Capital and Consumer Goods for cheap
* Superconductor Foundries to produce even more Consumer Goods as well as actually providing Energy
* Perennial Aquaponics produces both Food and Consumer Goods, but it produces them gradually so we should complete it as early as possible so we can reap the benefits as soon as possible.
* Red Zone Containment Lines to provide even more Red Zone mitigation and gain more Resources.
* Chicago Planned City to complete first stage so we can get an idea of how much mitigation it will provide, and therefore get an idea of how heavily to concentrate on it vs other mitigation measures.
* Orbital Cleanup because, while the resources it gathers will barely break even with the Resources invested in the cleanup itself, it opens up more projects which will hopefully let us harvest more Resources on an ongoing basis.
* Start work on GDSS Shala because knowing how to grow food in orbit is vital for ongoing orbital and space habitation. Also it helps fulfil another of our budget promises, and gives additional Political Support when completed.
* Game Development Studios because they supply Consumer Goods and they're the cheapest option left.
* Reclamator Hub to aid Red Zone mitigation and gather more Resources - the reason I chose Red Zone 1 North in Europe is that the map shows the red Zone is extremely close to Blue Zone 1 in Northern Europe, including Copenhagen where we have built a shipyard for Rapier hydrofoils and will probably be a potential construction site for cruisers and escort carriers, so we really don't want to risk losing that area.
* Finish the Super MARVs for our completed Reclamator Hub in Rd Zone 6.
* Continue working on the Point Defence upgrade for our ships, especially now we have two out of three hydrofoil shipyards completed and we're looking at further ship designs.
* Get our Predator tanks ready to have anti-infantry machine guns added to them. As the Point Defence upgrade doesn't require Energy, unlike the deployment of the Wolverines, hopefully this upgrade shouldn't cost any Energy either.
 
We still have 7 turns until the mutation hits. We've just been getting unlucky with rolls.
We started the quest with the Blue Zones at 17.35 and are currently at 14.65. With 77 points of mitigation we might be able to have our starting number again and even expand.
 
sunrise said:
They can wait a turn for us to do Interdepartmental Communication Initiative
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Can they?

They haven't had a security review since the Q2 2053 in the last plan and they have had a massive expansion in manpower after the budget revision. As far as we know we might have been leaking military hardware and classified information like a sieve for close to two years and we won't know until we do a security review.
 
Ashmaker said:
Can they?

They haven't had a security review since the Q2 2053 in the last plan and they have had a massive expansion in manpower after the budget revision. As far as we know we might have been leaking military hardware and classified information like a sieve for close to two years and we won't know until we do a security review.
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We have nine departments that we can review. Unless we are willing to throw free dice into bureaucracy, we tend to only review at most one department a turn

As such, we always expect at least one department to have gone two years or a little longer without a review. And each department's funding has been more or less increasing throughout the quest as our income increases.

Keep in mind that Granger doesn't have many uses for bureacracy compared to other potential candidates, so he has been reviewing departments more frequently and more thoroughly than his alternates would have.

Or in other words, the military isn't in a uniquely vulnerarable position to infiltration at this point in time.
 
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Theunderbolt said:
Can we actually evacuate the planet with our current resources or do we just start sending people into space when able?
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The two generally look pretty similar. Actually getting a large section of the population offworld is a project that will take a very long time, and requires a substantial investment.

Basically: You do Shala, because Shala is food, and you do Colombia because Colombia is habitation. Then you start seeing City class station development, and then you have more projects from there.
 
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Hmm, if we really want to invest more in space, completing the next phase of ASAT is necessary.

The current network is only a bit better than the old one, so it needs development in order to protect the relatively fragile eggs we have in orbit.
 
Heck not to be pessimistic here but we don't need to evacuate the whole planet for us to technically win just enough people so the human race doesn't die out.

And yes that is grim as all hell I won't lie but when it comes to a space colony our first concern is getting enough people off world to see the continuation of the human race(that should only be a few hundred thousand at a minimum). After that then we can concern ourselves with getting everyone off earth but as long as enough people get off world to avoid any potential genetic problems and to ensure there's a large enough population to allow growth as well as sufficient independence for them(by that I mean won't need earth for any major supply based issue that may come up) then we're golden.

It's by no means the most optimistic thing to say but it's also the baseline we should be going for if we do plan to start going really heavy space colony wise. Anything after that is a nice bonus.

Edit: Heck got morbidly curious on this and looked up how many people would be needed to successfully repopulate mankind in a apocalypse(which let's be honest we're in) and technically we need only 500 people to do so.
 
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Considering GDI has been using Tiberium economics for the last 50-60 years, in that Tiberium is a wonder material with just a little refining you can turn into just about anything, would GDI industry/economy suffer from suddenly not having complete access to their alchemy material?

I know it's not completely going back to reinventing the wheel, Enterprise shows that non-Tiberium refining is still alive and well, but things might be difficult if we have to go and search for a specific element like a normal civilization.
 
trooperist said:
Considering GDI has been using Tiberium economics for the last 50-60 years, in that Tiberium is a wonder material with just a little refining you can turn into just about anything, would GDI industry/economy suffer from suddenly not having complete access to their alchemy material?

I know it's not completely going back to reinventing the wheel, Enterprise shows that non-Tiberium refining is still alive and well, but things might be difficult if we have to go and search for a specific element like a normal civilization.
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The GDI economy would and wouldn't suffer. Basically, it suffers from the fact that all of a sudden they need to reorient their harvesting operations to mining and processing ore which is very different, though a lot safer. It wouldn't suffer because once you've done the processing of the raw ore, what you've got is basically exactly what you get once you've finished processing tiberium. It would hurt a lot more if we were going to be building a terrestrial civilisation but the fact we're building a space-based civilisation greatly reduces those problems as we're able to focus on mining asteroids and the like rich in the specific needed elements.

Eventually the natural abundance or scarcity of elements would kick in and we'd have problems again where we'd either need to deal with being poor in some critical elements unless we build up elemental transmutation abilities but well... I'm talking about something that kicks in after a few centuries of von neumann industry construction. A solar system is BIG with all that comes from that. And the fact that we've got two asteroid belts and several gas giants helps with that because it gives us easily accessible ores and concentrations of the gaseous elements.

(The first belt is the commonly known one between Mars and Jupiter. The second is the Kuiper Belt that starts somewhere between Neptune and Pluto and, according to some models and observations, may go out as far as two lightyears from the sun. Though the section concentrated enough to be useful is a lot smaller.)
 
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Next turn we really need to get the Governor cruiser done so we can build its shipyard the turn after.

Remember folks, everything has a lead time that will tick along in the background. Just because it got done doesn't mean it'll complete its job within that quarter. Most if not all actions and items in this Plan Quest have lengthy lead times.

The Apollo fighter factories for example needs multiple quarters before they can fully furbish GDI with Apollo fighters. It takes time to build shit and train people in their use and integrate it into the GDI arsenal.

The Governor Cruisers will most likely take almost a year or a year and a half before they can show their chops.

Once the shipyard is done GDI will have to build the cruisers, train the crew, do shakedown cruises, fix all the issues shown in the shakedown cruises, train crew again to fix issues, *then* actually start patrols. That takes a lot of time.
 
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When it comes to the military, I am going to look a bit at canon GDI (Now, this is not entirely either a fair or entirely accurate comparison, because you have made developments that they never did)
Generally, you can assume that Canon GDI was putting 2-3 dice of military development out every single turn from turn 1. Screw the Yellow Zones, screw the Forgotten, give the military industrial complex the funding that it needs. What this means is that you are some 30 to 40 dice of investment behind in total.
 
Ithillid said:
When it comes to the military, I am going to look a bit at canon GDI (Now, this is not entirely either a fair or entirely accurate comparison, because you have made developments that they never did)
Generally, you can assume that Canon GDI was putting 2-3 dice of military development out every single turn from turn 1. Screw the Yellow Zones, screw the Forgotten, give the military industrial complex the funding that it needs. What this means is that you are some 30 to 40 dice of investment behind in total.
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Well then, we can finish the job with the yellow zones and start rocking and rolling.
 
The idea of the Governor cruiser going by its description seems to be wanting a mainline combatant that is cheaper to produce with better survivability than some sort of big fuck-off battleship.

In fact that seems to be the basis GDI's post-TW3 naval design. That what the navy needs isn't a dick measuring contest of size and firepower but putting more hulls in the water that are more likely to stay in one piece.
 
trooperist said:
The idea of the Governor cruiser going by its description seems to be wanting a mainline combatant that is cheaper to produce with better survivability than some sort of big fuck-off battleship.

In fact that seems to be the basis GDI's post-TW3 naval design. That what the navy needs isn't a dick measuring contest of size and firepower but putting more hulls in the water that are more likely to stay in one piece.
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The Governor is basically a much cheaper generalist design that can patrol in deep water as well as give cruise missile support for ground operations up to hundreds of kilometers from the coast. There's a reason why the navy requested both the hydrofoils and the Governor cruisers.

Hydrofoils for light rapid response and shore patrol duty and the cruisers for actually patrolling the oceans.
 
trooperist said:
In fact that seems to be the basis GDI's post-TW3 naval design. That what the navy needs isn't a dick measuring contest of size and firepower but putting more hulls in the water that are more likely to stay in one piece.
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Basically, yes. GDI's navy before the war went with politically popular battleships and carriers. Big complex symbols of the Initiative's might. That is not what they turned out to need, and so are looking at a strategy of more hulls, and more survivable hulls, because that is what their wartime and postwar experience has told them that they need.
 
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