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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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Right, important news from Discord, with QM permission:

2 new military projects will become available in next Quarter:

[ ] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 2) (Phase 1) (High Priority)
While the point of the spear are still equipping themselves with the best that the Initiative can offer, they are a relatively small fraction of the total forces that serve under the striking eagle. A second, substantially larger wave of factories will require both significantly more capital goods, and a sizable workforce to produce enough of the armor to make a difference on those scales.
(Progress 0/450: 20 resources per die) (-4 Energy, -2 Capital Goods, -2 Labor)
(Progress 0/450: 20 resources per die) (-4 Energy, -2 Capital Goods, -2 Labor)
(Progress 0/450: 20 resources per die) (-4 Energy, -2 Capital Goods, -2 Labor)
(Progress 0/450: 20 resources per die) (-4 Energy, -2 Capital Goods, -2 Labor)
(Progress 0/450: 20 resources per die) (-4 Energy, -2 Capital Goods, -2 Labor)
(Progress 0/450: 20 resources per die) (-4 Energy, -2 Capital Goods, -2 Labor)

Important note - this is without discounts.

[ ] Initiative Laser Systems Deployment (New)
While not a system that any particular branch is happy with, a combat deployable laser will find homes among many of the Initiative's assets, from the potential novahawk, to next generation field antiaircraft systems, and the secondary batteries of Initiative warships. Even in the orbitals, as GDI builds combat capable voidships, will the Infernium laser find a home.
(Progress 0/735: 25 resources per die) (-6 Energy, -3 STUs)

Important note - Infernium laser deployment will be merged in this project.
 
Will be interesting to see how heavily discounted the zone armor is, and we do need to do some of those to hit plan goals but we can probably stop for a turn or two and try and get some other deployments out (I favor Orca and Shark for next turn, one is a plan goal and improves our carrier force and the other helps the navy prep for Karachi). Initiative Laser System just points to us needing to generate more STU income though that is a hefty project to work through, might start putting a die or two on it in Q4 onwards to chipaway while also rolling out IHG refits to up our STU production.
 
Firstly, I will chew my own neck off before I vote for CRAP. That's an auto no for me, no ifs, ands, or buts. Full stop, end of story. I do not care. Unless we have active and immediate reasons to believe we need it, out and out need it, in the way you need air to breath, I refuse to vote for it. We have other things we can still use PS for anyway. Like Liquid Tiberium plants, which would be really useful for building that energy buffer we need, or the Enhanced Tiberium Spikes, which could be incredibly useful.


Oleg-14191 said:
[ ] Initiative Laser Systems Deployment (New)
While not a system that any particular branch is happy with, a combat deployable laser will find homes among many of the Initiative's assets, from the potential novahawk, to next generation field antiaircraft systems, and the secondary batteries of Initiative warships. Even in the orbitals, as GDI builds combat capable voidships, will the Infernium laser find a home.
(Progress 0/735: 25 resources per die) (-6 Energy, -3 STUs)

Important note - Infernium laser deployment will be merged in this project.
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Well we needed better offensive weapons anyway. And we did get lucky with that crit freeing up 3 STUs. And with Infernium Laser Development getting merged in its only 2 STUs more. Not bad.
 
Liquid Tib power may get a reassessment after we do the development project(s?) when the Liquid Tiberium Fabrication tech matures, but yeah, we probably don't want to do any more until then. We have enough other sources of Energy and a lot of things to do with Tiberium dice.
 
If we're that strapped on energy and need to use tib dice for energy (when we have a lot of other demands in the tiberium sector) then we can just get the ion collectors.
 
Oleg-14191 said:
(Progress 0/450: 20 resources per die) (-4 Energy, -2 Capital Goods, -2 Labor)

Important note - this is without discounts.
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Well, if it gets the full 25% we'll get from alloys thats... 337.5 I believe.

And if we finish Reykjavik then add whatever discount that gives.

That's a rather impressive chunk. Like 150ish off per phase as a guess. For 6 phases. That's a 900 point or so discount. Very nice.
 
bigking321 said:
And 2 free on the Tiberium Spikes. I'm not really happy about it but it is something that could potentially give us improvements in fighting tiberium.
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I'd like to strongly object to putting two dice on Tib Spikes in the same turn. Nat 1s can stack, and as unlikely as it is, a double nat 1on the Tib Spikes research would be the worst possible place for that to happen. It is not a safe project. We should only do one die on it per turn, just to prevent that unlikely-but-possible chance of a total disaster.
Oleg-14191 said:
[ ] Initiative Laser Systems Deployment (New)
While not a system that any particular branch is happy with, a combat deployable laser will find homes among many of the Initiative's assets, from the potential novahawk, to next generation field antiaircraft systems, and the secondary batteries of Initiative warships. Even in the orbitals, as GDI builds combat capable voidships, will the Infernium laser find a home.
(Progress 0/735: 25 resources per die) (-6 Energy, -3 STUs)

Important note - Infernium laser deployment will be merged in this project.
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This is very expensive, and it doen't has the (Refit) tag that Infernium Lasers did. But it's also similar in costs to the Zrbite Sonics Phase 2, which is at 52/720. And if we're doing expensive military projects, I'd rather do that one first.
 
Derpmind said:
I'd like to strongly object to putting two dice on Tib Spikes in the same turn. Nat 1s can stack, and as unlikely as it is, a double nat 1on the Tib Spikes research would be the worst possible place for that to happen. It is not a safe project. We should only do one die on it per turn, just to prevent that unlikely-but-possible chance of a total disaster.
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I... um... what?

I can't even comprehend the level of catastrophizing necessary to be so worried about such a unlikely occurrence.

I mean, it happened once in the entire quest. It was bad. It would be bad no matter the project. But we still have to do the projects. We do stuff all the time that would be a disaster with double nat 1s.

We could also get double nat 100s. Should we get excited for what wonderful things that could cause?

I'm not meaning to harp to much on this. I'm just in a bit of shock that this was raised as a actual thing to be worried about.
 
bigking321 said:
I... um... what?

I can't even comprehend the level of catastrophizing necessary to be so worried about such a unlikely occurrence.

I mean, it happened once in the entire quest. It was bad. It would be bad no matter the project. But we still have to do the projects. We do stuff all the time that would be a disaster with double nat 1s.

We could also get double nat 100s. Should we get excited for what wonderful things that could cause?

I'm not meaning to harp to much on this. I'm just in a bit of shock that this was raised as a actual thing to be worried about.
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On any other project, it's not worth worrying about. But on this project specifically, I think the effects on Tiberium growth and such would amplify the effects of any nat 1s enough that it should be something we worry about, just a little bit.

I don't think I'm catastrophizing here. I still want to do the project. I'd just like a tiny bit of a safety net, and switching from 2 dice to 1 die on it is really just a minor change.
 
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Naval Assets of GDI & NOD Forces

[GDI]
Carrier Classes
Atlantis class CVN (Fleet Carrier, Nuclear Powered) [4 CIWS, 4 Laser, 4 x 21 Missile Pods, 120 Aircraft, Drones & Transports]
Island class LHA(N) (Landing Helicopter Assault, Nuclear Powered) [2 Lasers, 4 CIWS, 2 x 21 Missile Pods, 36 Helicopters, Drones & Transports]
Lake class CVE(N) (Light Carrier/Escort Carrier, Nuclear Powered) [2 Lasers, 3 CIWS, 2 x 21 Missile Pods, 72 Aircraft, Drones & Transports]

Battleship Classes
Mountain class BBGN (Battleship, Guided Missile, Nuclear Powered) [4x2 Railguns, 4 Lasers, 2 CIWS, 128 UVLS Cells, 2 ASW/SAR Hammerheads]

Cruiser Classes
Governor class CGN (Cruiser, Guided Missile, Nuclear Powered) [2x2 Railguns, 3 CIWS Flight I, 3 CIWS/1 Laser Flight Flight IA, 2 Lasers/2 CIWS A-Model, 54 Cell UVLS, 6x4 AShM Pods, 2 ASW/SAR Hammerheads]
Ticonderoga class CG (Cruiser, Guided Missile) [2x1 Railguns, 1 Laser, 3 CIWS, 122 Cell UVLS, 2 ASW/SAR Hammerhead] [Scrapped]

Destroyer Classes
Type 42 class DDG (Destroyer, Guided Missile) [1x1 Railgun, 2 CIWS, 56 UVLS Cells, 1 ASW/SAR Hammerhead] [Scrapped]
Arleigh Burke class DDG (Destroyer, Guided Missile) [1x1 Railgun, 2 CIWS 96 UVLS Cells, 2 ASW/SAR Hammerhead] [Scrapped]

Frigate Classes
Shark class FFGN (Frigate, Guided Missile, Nuclear Powered) [1x1 Railgun, 2 Laser, 2 CIWS, 78 UVLS, 2 ASW/SAR Hammerheads]

Patrol Boats
Rapier class Patrol Hydrofoil PG/FAC [2x4 UVLS, 2x2 Point Defense Missiles]

[NOD]
Battleships
Rajanaga class BBNP (Battleship, Nuclear Powered, Plasma Weapons) [Plasma heavy battery, laser secondaries, ion inhibitor.]
Vikrant class BBGT (Battleship, Guided Missile, Tiberium Powered) [Lasers, missiles]

Cruisers
Varyag class ACT (Sky Cruiser, Tiberium Powered) [Missiles, lasers, geared for AA]
Gangut class CGT (Cruiser, Guided Missile, Tiberium Powered) [Missiles, lasers, geared for AA, arctic sea specialist]
Ulars class CGN (Cruiser, Guided Missile, Nuclear Powered) [Long Range Missiles, AShM/SAM, Laser PDS]

Destroyers
Delphi class DDGT (Destroyer, Guided Missile, Tiberium Powered) [Missile thrower, some lasers.]
Khukri class DDLT (Destroyer, Leader, Tiberium Powered) [Lasers, speedy, some missiles for long range AA]

Frigates
Type 13 (Pangayaw) class FFT (Frigate, Tiberium Powered) [Single forward mounted laser]
Type 7 (Bedovyi) class FFGT (Frigate, Guided Missile, Tiberium Powered) [Missiles, mostly loaded with AA, some AShM]
Type 3 (Scorpène) class FFT (Frigate, Tiberium Powered) [Lasers, missiles, designed to engage Rapiers]

Submarines
Anomalocaris class SSBN (Submarine, Ballistic, Nuclear Powered) [Blunt missile thrower, torpedoes for self defense]
Falak class APSSN (Submarine, Auxilliary Personal, Nuclear Powered) [Underwater anti torpedo lasers, some torpedoes, theoretically shit tons of missiles, but realistically just carries cargo with some deep launch self guiding AA missiles to make GDI's ASW aircraft back off]
Type B class SSGT (Submarine, Guided Missile, Tiberium Powered) [Cruise missiles, torpedoes.]
 
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Double Nat 1 has occurred for a project. It happened to offshore tidal power platforms. It ended up completely removing the project from existence. The low rolls meant the platforms accidentally scattering large chunks of Tib into the water and washing up all over the world.
 
Oleg-14191 said:
Right, important news from Discord, with QM permission:

2 new military projects will become available in next Quarter:

[ ] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 2) (Phase 1) (High Priority)
While the point of the spear are still equipping themselves with the best that the Initiative can offer, they are a relatively small fraction of the total forces that serve under the striking eagle. A second, substantially larger wave of factories will require both significantly more capital goods, and a sizable workforce to produce enough of the armor to make a difference on those scales.
(Progress 0/450: 20 resources per die) (-4 Energy, -2 Capital Goods, -2 Labor)
(Progress 0/450: 20 resources per die) (-4 Energy, -2 Capital Goods, -2 Labor)
(Progress 0/450: 20 resources per die) (-4 Energy, -2 Capital Goods, -2 Labor)
(Progress 0/450: 20 resources per die) (-4 Energy, -2 Capital Goods, -2 Labor)
(Progress 0/450: 20 resources per die) (-4 Energy, -2 Capital Goods, -2 Labor)
(Progress 0/450: 20 resources per die) (-4 Energy, -2 Capital Goods, -2 Labor)

Important note - this is without discounts.
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Huh. Double size. That's a lot worse than I'd thought we'd been led to believe. Well, we can manage it, but I very much doubt we'll have the full laser rollout and the four factories we must build within the scope of the current Plan, without a lot of sacrifices I'd rather not make.

Oledoms said:
I also would like to test the Ion Collectors. Maybe just like the Spikes there is a hidden narrative benefit or something.
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We are testing them. They're all over the place at our new Red Zone operations; it's why everything we do in Red Zones these days is worth +1 or +2 Energy.

We just haven't fully updated all of our everything to use it because that's something like a 900-point project even now with most of the alloy discounts.
 
Quoting my last posted plan for ease of access:

Shadows said:
Second, differently focused plan, in which I indulge Number Go Up Now:

[] Draft Plan Diggy Diggy Glacier
-[] Infrastructure (5/5 dice, +27, 95R)
--[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 2+3) 159/380 3 dice 75R 70%
--[] Postwar Housing Refits (Phase 1+2) 114/320 2 dice 20R 21%
-[] Heavy Industry (5/5 dice + 6 Free, +34, 400R)
--[] U Series Alloy Foundries (Phase 5+6) 136/965 9 dice 360R 27%
--[] Second Generation Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 2) 263/310 2 die 40R 100% Phase 2, ~2/3rds Phase 3
-[] Light and Chemical Industry (4/4 dice, +29, 75R)
--[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) 883/1100 3 dice 60R 76%
--[] Adaptive Clothing Development (New) 0/60 1 die 15R 90%
-[] Agriculture (6/6 dice, +29, 50R)
--[] Reforestation Campaign Preparations (Phase 1) 252/815 4 dice 20R
--[] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 2) 83/230 2 dice 30R 74%
-[] Tiberium (7/7 dice, +39, 205R)
--[] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 5) 158/210 1 die 25R 100%
--[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (Blue Zone 4 Southeast Arabia) 52/85 1 die 30R 100%
--[] Deep Red Zone Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 4+5) 0/400 5 dice 150R 83%
-[] Orbital (7/7 dice + 2 AA dice, +34, 180R)
--[] GDSS Shala (Phase 4) 486?/520 1+AA dice 40R
--[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 5) 643/1030 4 dice 80R 41%
--[] Hospital Bay 0/315 2+AA dice 60R
-[] Services (4/4 dice, +35, 75R)
--[] University Program Updates (New) 137/250 1 die 15R 38%
--[] Library Enhancement Programs (New) 0/180 2 dice 30R 56%
--[] Cosmetic Biosculpting (New) 0/350 1 dice 30R
-[] Military (7/7 dice, +31, 135R)
--[] Strategic Area Defense Networks (Phase 4) 125/365 3 dice 60R 60+%
--[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 2) 56/230 2 dice 40R 54%
--[] Unmanned Support Ground Vehicle Development 0/80 1 die 20R 72%
--[] Governor A Development 0/40 1 die 15R 100%
-[] Bureaucracy (4/4 dice, +29)
--[] Administrative Assistance: GDSS Shala
--[] Administrative Assistance: Hospital Bay

Total Cost: 1215R

If I end up going with this plan, I'll probably strip 1 dice off of 2nd Gen CC (because it'll finish phase 2 anyway) and move it to the Hospital Bay, then move that AA dice to Shala.
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- and adding in the other one I'll be laying on the table this quarter:

[] Draft Plan Alloys, Plates and Developments
-[] Infrastructure (5/5 dice, +27, 95R)
--[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 2+3) 159/380 3 dice 75R 70%
--[] Postwar Housing Refits (Phase 1+2) 114/320 2 dice 20R 21%
-[] Heavy Industry (5/5 dice + 6 Free, +34, 340R)
--[] U Series Alloy Foundries (Phase 5) 136/965 5 dice 200R 94%
--[] Microfusion Cell Laboratories 0/160 2 dice 50R 79%
--[] Second Generation Repulsorplate Factories 0/560 2 dice 50R
--[] Second Generation Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 2) 263/310 2 die 40R 100% Phase 2, ~2/3rds Phase 3
-[] Light and Chemical Industry (4/4 dice, +29, 75R)
--[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) 883/1100 3 dice 60R 76%
--[] Adaptive Clothing Development (New) 0/60 1 die 15R 90%
-[] Agriculture (6/6 dice, +29, 50R)
--[] Reforestation Campaign Preparations (Phase 1) 252/815 4 dice 20R
--[] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 2) 83/230 2 dice 30R 74%
-[] Tiberium (7/7 dice, +39, 200R)
--[] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 5) 158/210 1 die 25R 100%
--[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (Blue Zone 4 Southeast Arabia) 52/85 1 die 30R 100%
--[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (Blue Zone 9 East Australia) 59/85 1 die 30R 100%
--[] Deep Red Zone Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 4) 0/400 3 dice 90R 95%
--[] Coordinated Abatement Programs (Phase 1) 82/190 1 die 25R 47%
-[] Orbital (7/7 dice + 2 AA dice + Erewhon, +34, 210R)
--[] GDSS Shala (Phase 4) 486?/520 2+2AA+E dice 100R
--[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 5) 643/1030 3 dice 60R 2%
--[] Hospital Bay 0/315 1 dice 20R
--[] Life Support Processor Development (Tech) 0/80 1 die 30R 75%
-[] Services (4/4 dice, +35, 75R)
--[] University Program Updates (New) 137/250 1 die 15R 38%
--[] Library Enhancement Programs (New) 0/180 2 dice 30R 56%
--[] Cosmetic Biosculpting (New) 0/350 1 dice 30R
-[] Military (7/7 dice, +31, 135R)
--[] Strategic Area Defense Networks (Phase 4) 125/365 3 dice 60R 60+%
--[] Governor A Development 0/40 1 die 15R 100%
--[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 2) 56/230 2 dice 40R
--[] Unmanned Support Ground Vehicle Development 0/80 1 die 20R 72%
-[] Bureaucracy (4/4 dice, +29)
--[] Administrative Assistance: GDSS Shala x2

Total Cost: 1185R
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Where the first plan goes full-bore on trying to finish off Alloys (and thus sidestep future plan dice budget battles), the second one keeps to the idea of finishing just one phase a turn, and instead prioritizes finishing Heavy Industry projects that could compete with Boston, here in a turn or two.

It's very likely to get edited to deal with SADN Phase 4 in the meantime but I don't have the numbers on that yet, so I'm free to dream.
 
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Derpmind said:
I'd like to strongly object to putting two dice on Tib Spikes in the same turn. Nat 1s can stack, and as unlikely as it is, a double nat 1on the Tib Spikes research would be the worst possible place for that to happen. It is not a safe project. We should only do one die on it per turn, just to prevent that unlikely-but-possible chance of a total disaster.
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It is just a development project though. Total disaster is 'it doesn't work, we take a PS hit and we can't try it again'.
And since it can't be completed with only 1 die, then two dice will have to be spent on it anyway. Doing it over two turns doesn't reduce the likelihood of crit fails.
 
Just want to say that I'm really happy that the Set 2 of Zone Armor retains the progress rollover from the previous factory that we got from that Nat 100 during Set 1.
 
HousePet said:
It is just a development project though. Total disaster is 'it doesn't work, we take a PS hit and we can't try it again'.
And since it can't be completed with only 1 die, then two dice will have to be spent on it anyway. Doing it over two turns doesn't reduce the likelihood of crit fails.
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Double crit fails can turn the entire quest around. The last time we got hit by one, we got locked out of all RZ mining because ZOCOM ate a massive ambush. Sure, normally a double crit fail isn't worth worrying about. But a double crit fail on a highly dangerous research project involving the manipulation of Tiberium itself? That could turn into a regional scale disaster.

More importantly, there's a 1/10,000 chance I get to tell everyone "I told you so." Do you really want to take that chance? :V
 
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