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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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Proto plan that puts Erewhon and all the free and admin dice into space stuff.

[] Plan
-[]Infrastructure 5/5 90R
--[] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 6) 2 dice 30R 0%
(Progress 1/260: 15 resources per die) (+4 Logistics)
--[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 2) 2 dice 50R 100%
(Progress 159/220: 25 resources per die) (+5 Logistics)
-[] Postwar Housing Refits (Phase 2) 1 die 10R 97%
(Progress 114/160: 10 resources per die) (-5 Housing, +3 High Quality Housing)
-[]Heavy Industry 5/5 180R
--[] U-Series Alloy Foundries (Phase 5) 4 dice 160R 53%
(Progress 136/485: 40 resources per die) (-4 Energy, -2 STUs) (5% discount on many projects)
--[] Second Generation Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 2) 1 die 20R 100%
(Progress 263/305: 20 resources per Die) (+19 Energy) (-1 Labor) (No more than three dice can be spent on 2nd Generation CCF per turn)
-[]Light and Chemical Industry 4/4 75R
--[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) 3 dice 60R 76%
(Progress 883/1100: 20 resources per die) (+8 Capital Goods, +4 Energy) (Reduces cost of mech and zone armor projects)
--[] Adaptive Clothing Development 1 die 15R 90%
(Progress 0/60: 15 resources per die)
-[]Agriculture 6/6 50R
--[] Reforestation Campaign Preparations (Phase 1) 4 dice 20R 0%
(Progress 252/815: 5 resources per die)
--[] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 2) 2 dice 30R 74%
(Progress 83/230: 15 resources per die) (+12 Food, -1 Energy, -1 Capital Goods)
-[]Tiberium 7/7 160R
--[] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 5) 1 die 25R 100%
(Progress 158/210: 25 resources per die) (Additional income trickle [15-35 resources]) (3 points of Red Zone Mitigation) (+2 Energy)
--[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment
---[] Blue Zone 4 1 die 30R 100%
(Progress 52/85: 30 resources per die (-3 Energy) (+2 Yellow Zone Abatement) (1 Political Support)
---[] Blue Zone 9 1 die 30R 100%
(Progress 59/85: 30 resources per die (-3 Energy) (+2 Yellow Zone Abatement) (1 Political Support)
--[] Coordinated Abatement Programs (Phase 1) 3 dice 75R 100%
(Progress 82/190: 25 resources per die) (+2 Red Zone Abatement)
-[]Orbital 7/7 320R
--[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 5) 5 dice 110R 88%
(Progress 643/1030: 20 resources per die) (2k Permanent residents) (+3 available Bays) (10 Political Support)
--[] GDSS Columbia Bays
---[] Hospital Bay 2 dice + 1 admin die 60R 5%
(Progress 0/315: 20 resources per die) (+1 Health)
---[] Spaceport Bay 2 free dice + 1 admin die 60R 5%
(Progress 0/315: 20 resources per die)
--[] GDSS Shala (Phase 4) 3 free dice + Erewhon 80R 100%
(Progress 486/520: 20 resources per die) (.3k permanent residents) (+4 Food, +2 Consumer Goods) (15 Political Support) (+2 available Bays)
--[] Life Support Processor Development 1 free die 30R 75%
(Progress 0/80: 30 resources per die)
-[]Services 4/4 90R
--[] Cosmetic Biosculpting 2 die 60R 0%
(Progress 0/350: 30 resources per die) (+1 Health)
--[] University Program Updates 2 dice 30R 96%
(Progress 137/250: 15 resources per die) (-1 Capital Goods) (Increases Labor outputs)
-[]Military 7/7 125R
--[] Infantry Recon Support Drone Deployment 1 die 10R 0%
(Progress 0/170: 10 resources per die) (-1 Energy) (3 quarters to begin, 9 to complete)
--[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 2) 3 dice 60R 96%
(Progress 56/230: 20 resources per die) (-1 Labor, -3 Energy, -1 Capital Goods) (Projected: 4 quarters to begin, 16 to complete)
--[] Stealth Disruptor Deployment 1 die 15R 0%
(Progress 0/170: 15 resources per die) (-1 Capital Goods, -2 Energy) (Projected 6 quarters to begin, 8 quarters to complete)
--[] Shark-Class Frigate Shipyards (Seattle) 1 die 20R 0%
(Progress 0/240: 20 resources per die) (-6 Energy, -2 Capital Goods) (4 Tranches, Projected: 8 quarters to complete tranche 1, 15 quarters to complete tranche 2, 22 quarters to complete Tranche 3, 29 quarters to complete Tranche 4.)
--[] Unmanned Support Ground Vehicle Development 1 die 20R 72%
(Progress 0/80: 20 resources per die)
-[]Bureaucracy 4/4 0R
--[] Administrative Assistance (Hospital Bay) 2 dice
(Spend 2 Bureaucracy dice for 1 operations die, that die is rolled without bonuses)
--[] Administrative Assistance (Spaceport Bay) 2 dice
(Spend 2 Bureaucracy dice for 1 operations die, that die is rolled without bonuses)
-[]Free Dice 6/6
--[] 6 in Orbital
-[]Resources Income 1090/1165 Reserve 0/60 Bank 100
 
Honestly Housing refits might be a 2D thing max while we get Arco's out, or even more FT's, though I dunno how FT's will effect the Refits?

And RZ Ops will need to be a tad slower, but we can probably work on other stuff in the meantime when RZBO/Deep Glaciers does something janky to us, like EHTS or Forgotten Experiments or the IHG Refits.

Boston is gonna be odd because we can do a turn or two with a few FD maybe 3 while the HI dice are on the Phase 5 Alloys.

Reyk and Bergen both getting 3 dice, might work? depends on rolls for Bergen, Reyk should go through.

Military is going to need to be Navy again for now, and something from Steel Talons to keep them happy, I honestly want to start MRAP and get that starting up over Drones at the moment though.

Agri is a tossup between 2D on Reforestation Prep and the rest in Ranches, Mechanization, and some more Farming (Vertical and Aquaponics)

Orbital is 2 or 3 dice on Columbia and the rest on Shala and a FD on Life Support, cuz we will need that for the ships and new stations and stuff.

Services is pretty even, Library and Hospitals to finish that stuff, Library for more Labor, and Hospitals to close a goal.

Bureau is something I dunno about, either AA or we do AA and Predictive Modeling to keep from Nat 1'ing shit
 
Derpmind said:
This worries me. Just three dice is still described as a great struggle for ZOCOM. The deep red zone is seriously super dangerous. I don't want to put more than four dice into deep red projects next turn, because we very much can overwhelm ZOCOM again, and that wouldn't be good at all.
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Phht said:
Actually, IIRC ZOCOM was wanting to pivot into being Deep Red specialists. So the more we get GF zone armored, the less need there is for ZOCOM in non-Deep Red operations. So more GFZA factories means GF can expand their operations more, to the point of taking over Shallow Red operations from ZOCOM. How soon we might get to that point, I have no idea though. The desire to hand of Shallow Red ops to GF might be why ZOCOM's annoyed that GF is using them as (anti-)breakthrough forces in conventional fights instead.
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A good chunk of it is probably the fact that there's basically an allotment of suit production per factory, and it still takes time for that to get to the soldiers on the front line.

I mean, it takes 3 quarters to get a factory to start coughing up ZA formations for the Ground Forces, which implies a 6 to 9 month retraining program, and it takes 10 quarters for the roll out to complete, which implies that the equilibrium point at which loss rate of equipment is equal to production rate of equipment at a saturation level permitted by 2 years of production.

I wouldn't be too surprised if we'd rolled out all the factories in a single instant and then waited two and a half years to sprint for the RZBOs and Super Glaciers ZOCOM wouldn't be nearly as nervous and frustrated, whereas right now we are basically running them as close to the edge as we can.

Which isn't anything new, really. We've told ZOCOM to do risky operations for the sake of money/abatement before, and the madlads have generally been willing to give it a try. And we have generally been willing to wait for them to recover when they ended up getting a hand mangled in the process.
 
We currently have 13 Low Quality housing in use. The Refits will replace 15 Low Quality Housing with 9 High quality housing. Therefore it could be reasonably said that the Housing refits are where all those in Low Quality Housing currently are. Because we are getting 1 high quality housing every turn, as long as the housing refits are rolled out slowly over the next 4 turns, the folks who are leaving their current homes can move into shiny arcologies, while the ones who stay get high quality expansions. This should require only 1 die per turn (given it should be ~4 dice total for the Housing Refits) and we shouldn't need the Arcologies project itself. Though given it is not unlikely we'll get some Refugees from Karachi we may want to grab a phase to provide a high quality buffer. However, that is strictly optional as Low Quality Housing is still present in more then sufficient numbers for almost any reasonable number of refugees.
 
I don't think there's much of a problem here at all. If each phase of Housing Refits displaces 2 Housing worth of people, you'd think doing all three would displace 6 Housing of people total. But if we finished all three immediately next turn, we'd end up at only 3 pop in LQ Housing. By the time we finish the third phase, we're largely just going to be replacing people's homes with high quality ones. After all, if the three phases are demolishing 15 LQ Housing units, we happen to be at only 13 pop in LQ Housing currently.

Given the above, I think finishing the refits quickly will actually make it less disruptive to people. Rather than stretching it out slowly and thus having people spend more time not being able to move into new housing.
 
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In regards to ZOCOM suits, wouldn't more MARVS solve the problem? More offense on red zones via giant mechs instead of squishy soldiers in power armor?
 
F0lkL0re said:
Proto plan that puts Erewhon and all the free and admin dice into space stuff.
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1) Just to be clear, should I be looking at this like an "all on space" plan that just isn't worrying about anything that might conflict with "maximize space?"

2) I advocate including how many free dice they include in the line at the top of a category rather than folding it into each individual project. Otherwise it winds up looking as though the dice aren't adding up, and someone has to go "hey, waaaait a minute" and think closely.

Tracking which dice are spent on what in-line may work in a plan vote with, say, 10-15 dice to allocate, but at 55-60 dice some internal organization really helps people read it and understand what you're saying.

LordArcturus said:
Boston is gonna be odd because we can do a turn or two with a few FD maybe 3 while the HI dice are on the Phase 5 Alloys.
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How do you figure? Are you planning to skip out on building fusion plants for a few turns? That sounds like a bad plan.

Reyk and Bergen both getting 3 dice, might work? depends on rolls for Bergen, Reyk should go through.
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We don't have six Light Industry dice. Does this plan involve spending Free dice on that category?

doruma1920 said:
We currently have 13 Low Quality housing in use. The Refits will replace 15 Low Quality Housing with 9 High quality housing. Therefore it could be reasonably said that the Housing refits are where all those in Low Quality Housing currently are.
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Complication:

There are still some civilians living in the fortress towns (I imagine some of the refits may actually be to housing in those places), and there are certainly civilians living in, for example, Chicago (when we built that it was explicitly Low Quality Housing).

I think that the Low Quality Housing number is effectively a metric for "how many people are there in GDI who would seriously consider moving anywhere within the Blue Zones, or at least anywhere within a wide area, purely for the sake of better living conditions?" There will always be people who genuinely don't mind that they live in some place cramped or with poor amenities, because the negative rent's too good to pass up and pretty much their entire inner mental life is online anyway, and I'm not sure they're being counted against our LQ totals even if we don't demolish all the LQ Housing and 'force' them to move into HQ Housing.

(I may be incoherent here, sorry)

FaxModem1 said:
In regards to ZOCOM suits, wouldn't more MARVS solve the problem? More offense on red zones via giant mechs instead of squishy soldiers in power armor?
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The catch is that MARVs require maintenance and support infrastructure... which comes out of ZOCOM's budget and resources. My impression is that Red Zone MARV hubs are less of a strain on ZOCOM than phases of Red Zone Harvesting, RZBOs, or glacier mines, but they're at best "strain-neutral," not a way to "solve the problem."

Though they are a way to get Red Zone abatement and some RpT income without making ZOCOM's life a lot harder, so there's that.
 
Simon_Jester said:
1) Just to be clear, should I be looking at this like an "all on space" plan that just isn't worrying about anything that might conflict with "maximize space?"
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Well I don't think it's meme plan I just decided to put the free, admin and Erewhon dice in there this turn, thought it looked viable and hoped that folk would like it enough so I might get more then the odd "oh right your here" kind of vote.

Simon_Jester said:
2) I advocate including how many free dice they include in the line at the top of a category rather than folding it into each individual project. Otherwise it winds up looking as though the dice aren't adding up, and someone has to go "hey, waaaait a minute" and think closely.
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There is a reason I have a free dice section at the bottom and well for reasons I'm not sure about people not marking which projects have the free dice makes me have the "hey, waaaait a minute" moments.
 
I'm in agreement with @Phht and @edofthesquid . We'll have to build more ZA factories. Possibly more then we promised, because we can't make the Ground Forces pick up ZOCOM's slack, just try to run them out of excuses. We could also try making a deal, but that sounds like it an ussue between ZOCOM and GF, so our ability to intervene is limited.

As for things that can help quickly, Reykjavik can help us stand up more ZA factories faster. Everyone's pointed out the drones. Zerbite should probably tick up in everyone's priorities, turn after next I'd say. We could also throw more R their way like we are for InOps. Depending on when it becomes available, Fast Twitch Myomer could help make better suits. Same line of reasoning for Alien Alloy Armor. If it's more Tiberium resistant, the suits will last longer.

Longer term we need to make Repulsorplates more available, then work out some new armored transports. There's also Nuuk and USGVS. Shoveling more drones into the Red Zones is a lot less of a headache then people in Zone Armor, who are probably some of the most expensive and irreplaceable individuals on the planet right now.

We might also find some stuff in Gene Augmentation that could help. And Forgotten Experimentation is also possible, if "shouting" at Tiberium can make it produce more STUs, "shouting" at it in a different way might make not shift around so much while people are working. Or we could build more Inhibitors in the Red Zones. MARVs are kinda ZOCOM stress neutral, but Inhibitors make everyone's life easier.
 
Oleg-14191 said:
Another problem is Mil dice.

Ground Forces Armor factories should become available soon. Depending on their costs, MARV construction may not be an option.
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Unless the costs are ridiculous, we can at least pry loose two Military dice on a single turn to start construction alongside a bunch of Tiberium dice.
Nottheunmaker said:
As for things that can help quickly, Reykjavik can help us stand up more ZA factories faster. Everyone's pointed out the drones. Zerbite should probably tick up in everyone's priorities, turn after next I'd say
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Given the sheer scope of the project, I'm not sure it's a good idea that we can feasibly implement in the current Plan on top of everything else. We might get more return on investment by pursuing other lines with our dice.
 
Nottheunmaker said:
Or we could build more Inhibitors in the Red Zones. MARVs are kinda ZOCOM stress neutral, but Inhibitors make everyone's life easier.
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This. Red zone 1 marv will be in my plan for the coming turn. Because, despite things being tight in military and tiberium Marvs are some of our most effective tools at red zone abatement and Red zone 1 specifically unlocks the inhibitor there which as a passive anti-tib measure reduce everyones stress.
 
Well, out of boredom, what I think we should do next turn. All subject to change based on new projects and information.

Infrastructure.

Railroads didn't seem to be that impactful narratively. So I propose we put them on hold until the north American corridor clears out the red zone and we can build the transcontinental rail line.

So 5 dice to work with.

I'm thinking 2 on shuttles and 2 on housing refits.

And the last dice on Emergency Caloric Reclamation Processor Installations (Phase 2).

I know that's controversial but we need to burn some ps, it's only a expansion of a project we are already doing, no one has to eat it unless there is a emergency, and we are going into a conflict with a guy known for nuking stuff. There is a decent chance population centers might get hit. Some more emergency food might be prudent.

Plus it might give us a look at how all our new tech has affected CRP. Maybe we'll see it's been improved or something making the non emergency CRP more palatable to the public and politicians.

Heavy Industry.

Nothing surprising.

5 dice on alloys 2 free on powerplants.

Light Industry.

3 on Reykjavik. 1 on Bergen or adaptive clothing depending on budget.

I don't think 3 dice is overkill. There's still a 25% chance it won't finish. But I would like a good chance that it does finish next turn so that whatever improvements to the economy and military kick in as soon as possible. We are starting Karachi soon. Maybe better military units kicking in a turn sooner can make a difference.

Agriculture.

Depending on budget, knocking out either mechanization or tarberries with the rest on reforestation.

Tiberium.

7 dice.

2 to complete the inhibitors. 3? on red zone offensive. 2 on Coordinated Abatement.

And 2 free on the Tiberium Spikes. I'm not really happy about it but it is something that could potentially give us improvements in fighting tiberium.

And if people want to give red zone stuff a break for ZOCOM we could put those 3 dice on Forgotten Experimentation.

Orbital.

2 on Columbia, 4 on Shala, 1 on life support, and 2 free on the hospital bay.

Shala needs to catch up a bit and the life support and hospital bay are important.

Services.

Whatever we need for the universities. Whats left can go to libraries or hospital expansions.

Military.

3 dice to finish SADN. 1 on Modular Rapid Assembly Prototype Factory. 2 on Infantry Recon Support Drone.

And 1 on Military Particle Beam Development. It's the last tech we haven't done and since we will start working on the new vehicles in a couple turns I think we should knock it out so it can be factored into the new designs.

Bureaucracy.

I've got no idea. AA dice or something.

I don't really do plans in this quest because of the complexity so whatever budget we have might make this ridiculous but this is what I'm thinking anyway.
 
bigking321 said:
Well, out of boredom, what I think we should do next turn. All subject to change based on new projects and information.

Infrastructure.

Railroads didn't seem to be that impactful narratively. So I propose we put them on hold until the north American corridor clears out the red zone and we can build the transcontinental rail line.

So 5 dice to work with.

I'm thinking 2 on shuttles and 2 on housing refits.

And the last dice on Emergency Caloric Reclamation Processor Installations (Phase 2).

I know that's controversial but we need to burn some ps, it's only a expansion of a project we are already doing, no one has to eat it unless there is a emergency, and we are going into a conflict with a guy known for nuking stuff. There is a decent chance population centers might get hit. Some more emergency food might be prudent.
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I'm on board with all this. Including E-CRP because hell, we need to flare off some Political Support anyway. Then again we might go for, say, finishing some fortress towns or something.

I'm torn on the idea of doing a manual phase of arcologies. On the one hand, just completing the housing refits and letting the Bureau of Arcologies passively tick away will give us enough High Quality Housing for our population quite soon. On the other hand, there are probably going to be refugees (external and, possibly, internal) associated with Karachi, and building more arcologies is not a bad thing. Arcology phases are down to costing about 6.5 dice, so it's not that big of an investment.

Tiberium.

7 dice.

2 to complete the inhibitors. 3? on red zone offensive. 2 on Coordinated Abatement.
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As Oleg notes...

Phase 5 of the border offensives is at 159/210 Progress. So far as I know, there is no sixth phase of the project. Honestly, I can't imagine more than one die being worth it.

Would you reallocate the other two dice to the super glacier mines, or something else? I'm curious.

I don't really do plans in this quest because of the complexity so whatever budget we have might make this ridiculous but this is what I'm thinking anyway.
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Well, you managed to independently derive a list of priorities that looks a lot like mine, and I do plans a lot. In some ways I find that reassuring. Budget hasn't been much of a problem lately; we're well-funded and finding about 20 R/die to activate everything is very much possible. None of the projects you're advocating are that expensive.
 
E-CRP 2.0 should be hitting some time this plan. I'd rather let the PS evaporate than waste the infra dice or resources needed to build more E-CRP 1.0.
 
Rakuhn said:
E-CRP 2.0 should be hitting some time this plan.
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On what do you base this conclusion?

For that matter, I would argue that if you are correct, then E-CRP 2.0 is likely to be a relatively easy retrofit to a network of E-CRP 1.0 systems. You're replacing the bacterial samples in the bioreactors of existing facilities, but the facilities themselves are there and established.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Would you reallocate the other two dice to the super glacier mines, or something else? I'm curious.
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Not sure. Probably Forgotten Experimentation since I'm pretty sure everyone wants to do that. Especially if it might boost STU production.

And if ZOCOM is unhappy, doing more red zone stuff might not help.
Rakuhn said:
E-CRP 2.0 should be hitting some time this plan. I'd rather let the PS evaporate than waste the infra dice or resources needed to build more E-CRP 1.0.
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I haven't heard anything about E-CRP 2.0. Was this a Discord thing?

Would that be every CRP project getting boosted or just E-CRP?
 
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bigking321 said:
Would that be every CRP project getting boosted or just E-CRP?
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The most likely effect of "CRP 2.0" is that we get CRP food that doesn't taste like oh-god-no with the flavor of garbage and the texture of wet cardboard. Something that just tastes bland and neutral with a palatable texture would be a massive improvement.

I doubt it'll actually increase the productivity of the projects, but it'll make people more willing to use the product. It's probably also a prerequisite for making CRP food viable as a form of animal feed. Animals will not thrive on a diet of CRP 1.0, because the stuff's so unwholesome that they won't eat it unless they're starving and maybe not even then.
 
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