@uju32

General observation: when talking about doing hundreds of megatons of concrete construction for Karachi, it should be noted that much of the weight of concrete is in aggregate rock and water, both of which can be sourced locally rather than being airlifted or sealifted from a distant Blue Zone.

Obviously, for the sake of the safety and stability of the stuff we're constructing, we'd need to be sure the material we build from is totally free of any micro-flecks of tiberium, which would present obstacles, but that's still going to be a factor.
 
I'll admit my math sense isn't exactly the best, but the impression I'm getting here is that Karachi is comparable in scale with any one front of Steel Vanguard. When your vanguard force is an armored division...
Two armored divisions, if we can manage it by the end of the first day.
Yeah its gonna be very big. If we dont have two hundred thousand combat troops on the ground in and around Karachi by the end of the first week, I'll be very surprised. Not counting what BZ-18 can bring to the party without stripping their defenses.

For comparison, Operation Neptune put around ~160,000 men on the beaches of Normandy in the first day, and they had a largely friendly civilian population to rely on. The Incheon Landing during the Korean War, which I think is more comparable in strategic intent to what we intend for Karachi, was 75,000 troops. We're probably going to be aiming for somewhere inbetween.

We havent been on the ground in the interior of Pakistan or the Indian subcontinent since before the Third Tiberium War.
While InOps and the military are undoubtedly regularly operating special forces and spy rings on the ground there, its still mostly untouched homeground for the Brotherhood which they've held uncontested for at least fifteen years by 2063.

If we didnt have both the Thar Desert and the Indus River as logistical firebreaks to our east against Brotherhood forces in India proper, I would be a lot more nervous about getting swamped by hordes of Gana.
And al-Isfahani to the west will have to bring his forces across arid Balochistan if he wants to offer battle.

Still enough of a likelihood to be a grind as we move north that I would really like to have the ZA factories done before then so the spearhead can go in power armor.
Just in case.

@uju32

General observation: when talking about doing hundreds of megatons of concrete construction for Karachi, it should be noted that much of the weight of concrete is in aggregate rock and water, both of which can be sourced locally rather than being airlifted or sealifted from a distant Blue Zone.

Obviously, for the sake of the safety and stability of the stuff we're constructing, we'd need to be sure the material we build from is totally free of any micro-flecks of tiberium, which would present obstacles, but that's still going to be a factor.
I assume that risk of Tiberium contamination is partly why we're going to be bringing everything besides the seawater from Oman.
Especially for constructing Karachi, its fortifications and its immediate supporting infrastructure.
With the other consideration being safety of the mining crews.

I dont think we'll be able to set up safe aggregate mining operations in this YZ for a while.
 
Last edited:
Regarding the Karachi landings, it's worth remembering that we'll have OSRCT Phase 4 online by then (unless we fail a plan goal), letting us orbital drop something in the neighborhood of a division of heavy mechanized infantry directly to the OZ, no aircraft needed. There will probably be noticeable logistical support available through that as well.
 
I assume that risk of Tiberium contamination is partly why we're going to be bringing everything besides the seawater from Oman.
Especially for constructing Karachi, its fortifications and its immediate supporting infrastructure.
Mmm...I don't think that follows. It's basically the same problems we already deal with in Tiberium abatement, we have to clean out every microfleck down at least five meters into the regolith otherwise we'd get little outbreaks everywhere we don't have a sonic emitter thrumming away. And this way we can process the aggregate centrally instead of in-place.
With the other consideration being safety of the mining crews.

I dont think we'll be able to set up safe aggregate mining operations in this YZ for a while.
Tiberium harvesting crews already deal with NOD raids on such a regular basis that upgunning them to railguns produces a noticeable uptick in productivity. Aggregate mining is if anything safer, since we're not handling Tiberium crystals and we actually want the thousands of tons of overburden we'd normally discard.
 
Given 50% availability(that means 50% down for rest, replenishment and repairs), thats 22 fleet carriers available and at sea.
Splitting them

My understanding is that the amount of carriers in operation is basically a third of the fleet. Ie you have a third deployed, a third in maintenance and a third getting ready to deploy. You can push the ones getting ready or the ones about to come off deployment but you're eating your seed at that point.
 
I feel like I should point out that V-35s carry one vehicle regardless of weight. So you can't carry more Guardians/Pitbulls/arty per V-35 than Predators. It's all 1:1. Also, we have hovercraft capable of carrying to shore a Mammoth Mk III, so I expect they can lift a decent number of smaller vehicles in one go.

As for a "heavy lift" air craft... That's a toughy. TW2 era Carryall could lift a Mammoth Mk II. I would think the Nod version ought to be comparable, but it can't carry Avatars or Reckoners (though is that true of Reckoners in Quest?), so either Avatars are heavier than a Mammoth Mk II (and conceivable Reckoners as well?), or the Nod version (and likely as a result the GDI version based off it) lacks the engine power of the original and thus has a lower load limit. It seems odd to consider a Carryall like that given its performance in TW2, but here we are.

Also, the Atlantis-class CVNs carry Firehawks and Orcas (and in Quest might also carry a few Hammerheads). I somewhat doubt that they have 60+ Firehawks plus a decent number of Orcas in that hull. Maybe in a sensible carrier hull design, but we get the Atlantis-class instead.

--

I'll just point out on the "how can we minimize time for Nod to prepare for our invasion," the military could always use the fine art of misdirection and make them think we're actually going for Colombo. I would hope that Nod would be aware by then that GDI seems only really willing to work on two Planned City projects at a time, so Chicago's completion status could be interpreted either way it turns out on lending credence to hitting Colombo first and building that up to threaten eastern India (if we build a hydrofoil base up at Jaffna in northern Sri Lanka, we can interdict Chennai's cargo area to an extent with just hydrofoils) so hitting Karachi later would face weaker forces. And since Sri Lanka is a much smaller operational area than Pakistan/India, less GDI forces would be needed to secure the island from most threats, thus encouraging a tough and aggressive defense built up on Colombo to tie down GDI forces long enough to prevent much of them from being redeployed for Karachi for years.

As a bonus? It was first floated alongside Chicago and Karachi back after we finished the Saarland HI Plant in Q2 2054. Chicago was experimenting with Planned Cities for abatement purposes. Karachi was planned to provide a second main link to BZ-18. And Colombo? It was to be the springboard to go after the Indian subcontinent as a whole. Chicago and Karachi Planned Cities show up as options in Q3 2054. Chicago started in Q2 2055. Mecca/Jeddah Planned City shows up in Q2 2056 options (it would be started Q3 2056, completed Q3 2057 w/ Medina complete Q1 2058). In Q2 2056 (next time Colombo Planned City shows up in Quest), it's mentioned for Colombo, "The planned city will provide a nearby logistics hub and strategic entrepot."

I'd expect in the 6+ years since the concept was first floated and the 4+ years since the concept was largely finalized that Nod has gotten wind of it. So if the military makes "noise" that Nod finds out about regarding an upcoming naval invasion aimed at Colombo.... Do you think they'll shift forces to heavily contest an attempt to get that logistics hub up and going for future offensives against India, or keep (more than) decent forces covering Karachi that's aimed at BZ-18 because we still have a Karachi promise to fulfill?
 
Well, hopefully they aren't sure just how seriously we take the Karachi promise or even if we've actually made that promise. After all, while we can assume that Nod has spies that are broadly aware of Gulati's wheelings and dealings, we did just renegotiate that plan and have made no obvious moves on Karachi that aren't just general military preparation.

At the same time, they'd be fools to leave that area entirely undefended, and there'd be a fair chance of Colombo being a bluff for all the same reasons we'd hesitate to actually go through with it.
 
Regarding the Karachi landings, it's worth remembering that we'll have OSRCT Phase 4 online by then (unless we fail a plan goal), letting us orbital drop something in the neighborhood of a division of heavy mechanized infantry directly to the OZ, no aircraft needed. There will probably be noticeable logistical support available through that as well.
Can I please get a cite?
My recollection was that we got a reinforced battalion per phase, which would amount to a reinforced brigade for four phases.
Significant, but not a division. And lacking in both heavy AA and artillery.

Mmm...I don't think that follows. It's basically the same problems we already deal with in Tiberium abatement, we have to clean out every microfleck down at least five meters into the regolith otherwise we'd get little outbreaks everywhere we don't have a sonic emitter thrumming away. And this way we can process the aggregate centrally instead of in-place.

Tiberium harvesting crews already deal with NOD raids on such a regular basis that upgunning them to railguns produces a noticeable uptick in productivity. Aggregate mining is if anything safer, since we're not handling Tiberium crystals and we actually want the thousands of tons of overburden we'd normally discard.
1)Nah.
We can presumably straight up produce aggregate from Tiberium.
Thats why importing from Oman seems workable.

2)Tiberium crews deal with raids because they operate near the FEBA of a lot of YZs.
They dont attempt to stand up largescale mining operations in the middle of a major warzone with artillery a major threat.

Remember, this isnt Tib we're talking about mining, its aggregate.
We're talking quarries here, and centralized mining, not a large zone where independent harvesters do their thing. A single salvo of artillery rockets into a quarty and it murks the workers and most of the heavy equipment we have to import from Oman.

My understanding is that the amount of carriers in operation is basically a third of the fleet. Ie you have a third deployed, a third in maintenance and a third getting ready to deploy. You can push the ones getting ready or the ones about to come off deployment but you're eating your seed at that point.
Yep, IRL.
In this quest its 50% according to Word of GM.
Praise be to GDI's superlative logistics and training framework.

I feel like I should point out that V-35s carry one vehicle regardless of weight. So you can't carry more Guardians/Pitbulls/arty per V-35 than Predators. It's all 1:1. Also, we have hovercraft capable of carrying to shore a Mammoth Mk III, so I expect they can lift a decent number of smaller vehicles in one go.

As for a "heavy lift" air craft... That's a toughy. TW2 era Carryall could lift a Mammoth Mk II. I would think the Nod version ought to be comparable, but it can't carry Avatars or Reckoners (though is that true of Reckoners in Quest?), so either Avatars are heavier than a Mammoth Mk II (and conceivable Reckoners as well?), or the Nod version (and likely as a result the GDI version based off it) lacks the engine power of the original and thus has a lower load limit. It seems odd to consider a Carryall like that given its performance in TW2, but here we are.

Also, the Atlantis-class CVNs carry Firehawks and Orcas (and in Quest might also carry a few Hammerheads). I somewhat doubt that they have 60+ Firehawks plus a decent number of Orcas in that hull. Maybe in a sensible carrier hull design, but we get the Atlantis-class instead.

--

I'll just point out on the "how can we minimize time for Nod to prepare for our invasion," the military could always use the fine art of misdirection and make them think we're actually going for Colombo. I would hope that Nod would be aware by then that GDI seems only really willing to work on two Planned City projects at a time, so Chicago's completion status could be interpreted either way it turns out on lending credence to hitting Colombo first and building that up to threaten eastern India (if we build a hydrofoil base up at Jaffna in northern Sri Lanka, we can interdict Chennai's cargo area to an extent with just hydrofoils) so hitting Karachi later would face weaker forces. And since Sri Lanka is a much smaller operational area than Pakistan/India, less GDI forces would be needed to secure the island from most threats, thus encouraging a tough and aggressive defense built up on Colombo to tie down GDI forces long enough to prevent much of them from being redeployed for Karachi for years.

As a bonus? It was first floated alongside Chicago and Karachi back after we finished the Saarland HI Plant in Q2 2054. Chicago was experimenting with Planned Cities for abatement purposes. Karachi was planned to provide a second main link to BZ-18. And Colombo? It was to be the springboard to go after the Indian subcontinent as a whole. Chicago and Karachi Planned Cities show up as options in Q3 2054. Chicago started in Q2 2055. Mecca/Jeddah Planned City shows up in Q2 2056 options (it would be started Q3 2056, completed Q3 2057 w/ Medina complete Q1 2058). In Q2 2056 (next time Colombo Planned City shows up in Quest), it's mentioned for Colombo, "The planned city will provide a nearby logistics hub and strategic entrepot."

I'd expect in the 6+ years since the concept was first floated and the 4+ years since the concept was largely finalized that Nod has gotten wind of it. So if the military makes "noise" that Nod finds out about regarding an upcoming naval invasion aimed at Colombo.... Do you think they'll shift forces to heavily contest an attempt to get that logistics hub up and going for future offensives against India, or keep (more than) decent forces covering Karachi that's aimed at BZ-18 because we still have a Karachi promise to fulfill?
1)Im assuming a certain amount of gamification in the game, because attempting to carry a vehicle in the open air while moving at jet speeds seems like asking for trouble. They cant possibly be clamping squads of infrantry to the transports after all, amd the transports only carry songle squads in the game

2)Hovercraft to handle a Mammoth do exist. We saw them in Venezuela. However, attempting to transfer a Mami from the cargo hold of a GDI landing ship to said hovercraft is not the sort of operation you undergo while a ship is either underway or within range of a shorebased missile carrying two thousand pounds of Tiberium-boosted hate.

3)TW2 era vehicles were not necessarily in the same weightclass as TW3 vehicles.
And the Carryalls are very different aircraft despite sharing the same name. Plus Avatars are both heavy and big in volume.
No way they'd fit in a Carryall.

4) Hundred kiloton plus hull. They have the volume.
Ford and Nimitz-class CVNs carry 60-70 CTOL aircraft in peacetime, and can carry up to 130 maximum, and they're only around 103 kilotons full load displacement.

5) Speakimg as a naval booster, the current force balance makes Colombo impossible.

Karachi is in range of landbased air; as long as we control the Arabian Sea, we can loiter aerial tankers around 500km offshore of Oman to extend the endurance of landbased fighters over the Karachi beachead and several hundred kilometers inland.
The carriers serve as being surge capacity and rapid response bases because they are closer, while sweeping the oceans.

Colombo is three thousand km from the closest friendly airbase(Madagascar) thats not in BZ-18, and even BZ-18 is around 1200 - 1500km away.Only Auroras will reach. Then consider precisely how many Brotherhood airbases in southern India are within 500km of Sri Lanka, even before ion disruptors began to proliferate.

Consider how many aircraft they can potentially host, compared to our entire CVN force.

We'd have to put the entire CVN force off Colombo to even attempt to approach parity.
They know this too.
So no, Colombo isnt credible.

Gonna need a lot more carriers, landing ships and the like, or a significant breakthrough in effectiveness.
 
1)Nah.
We can presumably straight up produce aggregate from Tiberium.
Thats why importing from Oman seems workable.
Actually, aggregate for concrete is one of the few things we explicitly don't make from tiberium on a regular basis. We even had a Heavy Industry action which we did back in 2051Q1-Q2 to get a worldwide network of aggregate plants up and running.

Remember, this isnt Tib we're talking about mining, its aggregate.
We're talking quarries here, and centralized mining, not a large zone where independent harvesters do their thing. A single salvo of artillery rockets into a quarty and it murks the workers and most of the heavy equipment we have to import from Oman.
On the other hand, this is a GDI quarry we're talking about. It's quite possible that the actual quarrying is being done by giant robot machines manufactured at Nuuk, with a handful of operators in a heavily built bunker controlling the site. The heavy equipment getting blown up is still a major setback... But shipping out new mining equipment and new rock crushers from Oman or Madagascar may well be less of a pain in the ass than shipping out the aggregate itself. Hard to say.

One distinct possibility is that GDI will do both- will ship out great quantities of aggregate and also aggregate mining equipment on a limited scale.

If the mining equipment doesn't all get blown up by Nod, well and good. The first fifty million tons of construction supplies will now stretch farther and more mining equipment can be shipped in to make it stretch farther still.

If the mining equipment does all get blown up by Nod, well, there's enough aggregate delivered from overseas to keep construction running anyway.

After all, aggregate is literally sand and rocks, so it can sit around waiting for someone to be ready to use it. And it's not volatile and doesn't require special storage conditions. So there's no downside to keeping it sitting around in a supply dump until it's needed. You don't have to ship it in at a constant rate every month, just keep ahead of the actual demands of the road construction.
 
Last edited:
Aggregate does tend to have specific composition requirements, however, so not all locally sourced rock and sand may necessarily be suited to the role, and GDI would need to find and secure a decent site first.
 
This is true, though given the scale of the military operations we're contemplating, overrunning a few sites in the territory that (ITTL) once was Pakistan that are likely to be suitable for quarrying seems likely. It's not like Pakistan has to import its sand and gravel in real life, so far as I know.

More generally, I want to clarify that this isn't me insisting "oh no we can totally do this and there will be no obstacles," but it's the kind of thing one thinks about to limit logistical requirements when doing massive-scale projects that are likely to take a year or more.

EDIT:

Another note- while under no circumstances will I want to start the Karachi landings and construction programs in Q3 of any year (to avoid monsoon season), we shouldn't panic about the impact of the monsoon in general. It's a bad time to do construction projects- Google "construction Pakistan monsoon" and you see plenty of warnings about how it is difficult, complex, or inadvisable to be building things at that time, and how special steps must be taken to maintain construction sites! But at the same time... Well, GDI's engineers aren't stupid, and when we fund a project, we can expect our people to do what makes sense.

We manage to build giant industrial complexes in Greenland during winter, so I figure things will work out okay.
 
Last edited:
We're talking quarries here, and centralized mining, not a large zone where independent harvesters do their thing. A single salvo of artillery rockets into a quarty and it murks the workers and most of the heavy equipment we have to import from Oman.
My thought was, a quarry is easier to defend than a larger free-mining zone because it is centralized. You have a smaller perimeter to defend, so you can afford to ring it with CRAM, short range SAMs and fortifications instead of relying on escorts and theatre defense.

Same logic as convoys. The offensive power of the attacker is capped by the operational realities of stealth, while defensive power can be concentrated around fewer, more valuable but compacted targets.
 
Actually, aggregate for concrete is one of the few things we explicitly don't make from tiberium on a regular basis. We even had a Heavy Industry action which we did back in 2051Q1-Q2 to get a worldwide network of aggregate plants up and running.


On the other hand, this is a GDI quarry we're talking about. It's quite possible that the actual quarrying is being done by giant robot machines manufactured at Nuuk, with a handful of operators in a heavily built bunker controlling the site. The heavy equipment getting blown up is still a major setback... But shipping out new mining equipment and new rock crushers from Oman or Madagascar may well be less of a pain in the ass than shipping out the aggregate itself. Hard to say.

One distinct possibility is that GDI will do both- will ship out great quantities of aggregate and also aggregate mining equipment on a limited scale.

If the mining equipment doesn't all get blown up by Nod, well and good. The first fifty million tons of construction supplies will now stretch farther and more mining equipment can be shipped in to make it stretch farther still.

If the mining equipment does all get blown up by Nod, well, there's enough aggregate delivered from overseas to keep construction running anyway.

After all, aggregate is literally sand and rocks, so it can sit around waiting for someone to be ready to use it. And it's not volatile and doesn't require special storage conditions. So there's no downside to keeping it sitting around in a supply dump until it's needed. You don't have to ship it in at a constant rate every month, just keep ahead of the actual demands of the road construction.
1) Thing is, those aggregate mining sites were all in BZs, where it was safe and the quarry sites were relatively untainted by Tib.
A longterm YZ thats a warzone to boot, and which has a RZ glacier less than two hundred km away from Karachi seems unlikely to offer the same conditions that made the 2052 projects workable.

2) Fair point on not knowing. I just dont believe GDI can afford the delays that come from having quarry equipment and infrastructure blown up, and then waiting to requisition new stuff from Oman and Madagascar, repairing whats repairable and starting from scratch. The aim of presenting the Brioherhood with a fait accompli as soon as possible suggests speed over cost.

The depots are still a great idea, mind, as lomg as we can keep anyone from chucking some Tib into it :)

3) If wiki is to be believed, concrete aggregates includes, and I quote: "sand, gravel, crushed stone, slag, recycled concrete and geosynthetic aggregates." And "Many geosynthetic aggregates are also made from recycled materials. Being polymer based, recyclable plastics can be reused in the production of these new age aggregates. For example, Ring Industrial Group's EZflow[6] product lines are produced with geosynthetic aggregate pieces that are more than 99.9% recycled polystyrene."

My thought was, a quarry is easier to defend than a larger free-mining zone because it is centralized. You have a smaller perimeter to defend, so you can afford to ring it with CRAM, short range SAMs and fortifications instead of relying on escorts and theatre defense.

Same logic as convoys. The offensive power of the attacker is capped by the operational realities of stealth, while defensive power can be concentrated around fewer, more valuable but compacted targets.
My understanding is that concentration deters light raiders and harassment, the bikes and buggies and militants.
But it does not do anything against a proper attack, and the attacker always has the initiative and the option of meeting his strongest point to the defense's weakest one.

And in Pakistan, while we're building the Beanstalk, a quarry would be a major target well worth taking a proper whack at in order to impede GDI military infrastructure buildout.
====
Note that Im making some assumptions about Nod hardware here that might turn out untrue.

But assuming that Nod has a stealthy notM270 MLRS (which might be what the Stealth tank was supposed to be, actually), a single salvo of 12 rockets from one vehicle will blanket an area of two square km with almost 7000 submunitions at 70km+. A battery of 3x vehicles would launch 36 rockets and dump ~21,000 submunitions over an area of 6 km2.

You cant defend against that sort of hail with something like C-RAM.

Or let me pick a Kane's Wrath vehicle: the Spectre. Its a SPH with a stealth generator that hides it when its not firing. Assuming it can at least match the capabilities of a modern system like the PzH2000, a single vehicle would empty a 60-round magazine at a sustained rate of up to 10rpm at ranges of 40+ km.

A battery of six would be able to magdump 360 shells into a quarry at a range of 40-50km and then flee.
Fire mission duration six minutes. Any unarmored vehicles are probably screwed.
And before we can scramble our five minute alert aircraft they're gone.
 
Last edited:
Can I please get a cite?
My recollection was that we got a reinforced battalion per phase, which would amount to a reinforced brigade for four phases.
Significant, but not a division. And lacking in both heavy AA and artillery.
Thanks for the catch there, forgot we had an intermediate between regiment and division. Doesn't help that brigade and regiment are often used for fairly indistinguishable units IRL.
 
If wiki is to be believed, concrete aggregates includes, and I quote: "sand, gravel, crushed stone, slag, recycled concrete and geosynthetic aggregates." And "Many geosynthetic aggregates are also made from recycled materials. Being polymer based, recyclable plastics can be reused in the production of these new age aggregates. For example, Ring Industrial Group's EZflow[6] product lines are produced with geosynthetic aggregate pieces that are more than 99.9% recycled polystyrene."
That means that we may be able to make some of the components of concrete aggregate from Tiberium made products. It would still be a difficult and tricky prospect but doable in theory. Maybe a special project/plant to produce aggregate from Tiberium synthetic materials.
 
1) Thing is, those aggregate mining sites were all in BZs, where it was safe and the quarry sites were relatively untainted by Tib.
A longterm YZ thats a warzone to boot, and which has a RZ glacier less than two hundred km away from Karachi seems unlikely to offer the same conditions that made the 2052 projects workable.
Maybe, maybe not. I suspect it's an option GDI would at least explore and prepare for.

2) Fair point on not knowing. I just dont believe GDI can afford the delays that come from having quarry equipment and infrastructure blown up, and then waiting to requisition new stuff from Oman and Madagascar, repairing whats repairable and starting from scratch. The aim of presenting the Brioherhood with a fait accompli as soon as possible suggests speed over cost.
Constructing the entire highway isn't something that's likely to be done that quickly. The point of the exercise here is to dump an overwhelming military force into the Karachi area and secure a beachhead large enough that Nod can't push it back into the sea in time to stop us from building up. Even for GDI, this means pushing Nod back such that Karachi proper is at least out of artillery range; if we can't accomplish that goal, we can't do the project at all in the long run.

We must likewise hold open a transport corridor- and everything you say about how easy it would be for Karachi to blow up a gravel quarry is even more true about their ability to blow up a superhighway or a railroad. Keeping Nod out of easy artillery range of the transport corridor or "beanstalk" or whatever we call it is going to be a necessity anyway.

This entire project is a fool's errand if the overall plan doesn't include pushing out the perimeter far enough that (with support from laser defense and so on) we can actually stop Nod from just cutting the transport corridor over and over with artillery bombardment. While there might not be sites suitable for rock quarrying within the target zone, I don't think we should dismiss the idea out of hand given the scale of the project. Historically, very few successful construction megaprojects proceed without making some use of relatively locally sourced materials, or such is my understanding.

The depots are still a great idea, mind, as lomg as we can keep anyone from chucking some Tib into it :)
Put a tarp over the gravel piles when you're not using them.

More seriously and generally, the depots are a requirement. You don't move construction supplies in such immense quantities without facilities at which they can be stored by the kiloton, if only to smooth out irregularities in the supply chain. "Just in time delivery" doesn't work on this scale, and certainly doesn't work in wartime.

3) If wiki is to be believed, concrete aggregates includes, and I quote: "sand, gravel, crushed stone, slag, recycled concrete and geosynthetic aggregates." And "Many geosynthetic aggregates are also made from recycled materials. Being polymer based, recyclable plastics can be reused in the production of these new age aggregates. For example, Ring Industrial Group's EZflow[6] product lines are produced with geosynthetic aggregate pieces that are more than 99.9% recycled polystyrene."
Yes and no. Aggregate is basically "any crushed rock" and often includes various mixtures of gravel, sand, and mechanically crushed stone. All that other stuff is stuff you can use as aggregate, because nearly any hard, erosion-resistant, non-biodegradable material that comes in little chunks the cement can flow around will do the job.

It's just that in practice, this is literally rocks, which are even more ubiquitous than tiberium, except perhaps in the worst areas of a Red Zone.

Or let me pick a Kane's Wrath vehicle: the Spectre. Its a SPH with a stealth generator that hides it when its not firing. Assuming it can at least match the capabilities of a modern system like the PzH2000, a single vehicle would empty a 60-round magazine at a sustained rate of up to 10rpm at ranges of 40+ km.

A battery of six would be able to magdump 360 shells into a quarry at a range of 40-50km and then flee.
Fire mission duration six minutes. Any unarmored vehicles are probably screwed.
And before we can scramble our five minute alert aircraft they're gone.
One point I would note is that we did deploy those stealth detectors. One effect of which is that we can probably get a rough idea of where those vehicles are from a considerable distance, if only by triangulation. Those Nod Spectre batteries are going to be having to get dangerously close to our own front lines covering the quarry, and those front lines' counterbattery fire.

(And hell, probably Orcas continuously in the air as a combat patrol, though response times will never be zero anyway)
 
Last edited:
Associated Press September 7, 2059
September 7, 2059

AP - After over two weeks of search and rescue operations, an Armed Forces spokesperson has confirmed that 1st Lieutenant Violet Hawthorne-Smythe has been recovered by Orca search teams operating within YZ-13, with Firehawks providing air cover against Nod aircraft attempting to interfere. While the search was initially called off due to on-going ion storm interference and interdiction by Brotherhood of Nod Venom and Barghest aircraft, the Lieutenant was able to activate a GDI transponder beacon, enabling the Nod Carryall transporting her to be brought down by Firehawk fighters over YZ-13. Evading Nod search parties, the Lieutenant was able to survive in the yellow zone for over a week before being able to attract the attention of an Orca search party, which, after a brief dogfight with Venom aircraft was able to effect her subsequent rescue.

The Lieutenant was unavailable for an interview at the time of publication, but the spokesperson has stated that she is receiving the best available medical care, and will recover and be ready to return to duty within several months.

---
To learn more about on-going operations by the 358th Mechanized Infantry Platoon

Our Journalistic Integrity Policy
Our Military Operational Security Compliance Policy
Our Legal Disclaimer

@Ithillid yet another "archived" news article
 
That means that we may be able to make some of the components of concrete aggregate from Tiberium made products. It would still be a difficult and tricky prospect but doable in theory. Maybe a special project/plant to produce aggregate from Tiberium synthetic materials.
The reason we make aggregate from rocks rather than tiberium is not because we can't make it out of tiberium, it's just fundamentally not cost-effective. While good stone is a lot harder to get than in our world due to tiberium contamination, it's still easier than digging up equivalent masses of actual tiberium. Making our tib refineries crank out aggregate is 100% a thing that could, theoretically, be done, but why bother when the nearest aggregate-viable stone deposit's closer than a refinery as well as safer and easier to extract mass from than a tiberium concentration.
 
Yes and no. Aggregate is basically "any crushed rock" and often includes various mixtures of gravel, sand, and mechanically crushed stone. All that other stuff is stuff you can use as aggregate, because nearly any hard, erosion-resistant, non-biodegradable material that comes in little chunks the cement can flow around will do the job.

It's just that in practice, this is literally rocks, which are even more ubiquitous than tiberium, except perhaps in the worst areas of a Red Zone.

Well it's not simply "any crushed rock". Aggregate needs to have certain physical properties to be good aggregate: grain size and shape, a proper friction coefficient so that it binds correctly into concrete, to be made out of a hydrophobic enough substance to not dissolve in the water poured into the concrete mixture, ect.
 
Plus, aggregate doesn't really have to be good stone. There are things that are unsuitable for use as aggregate, but it's not what you'd call super-picky as I understand it.
 
Plus, aggregate doesn't really have to be good stone. There are things that are unsuitable for use as aggregate, but it's not what you'd call super-picky as I understand it.

Worse good stone can sometimes be bad aggregate most commonly because of the stone's grain not being able to hold a proper shape for aggregate. And the only reason aggregate isn't super picky is because of Earth's composition. On other planets, as has been mentioned in SCEDQuest in this thread multiple times already, sintered regolith is the go to bulk building material and not simply because water can't be allowed to evaporate without a lot of infrastructural work being done first.

We will need to engineer some sort of new Prototaxites on a planet/moon before we have any chance of having the sort of stone that is used in aggregate as part of an off-world location.
 
Aggregate would be a natural biproduct of any tib mining that isn't glacier mining.
It is just that a lot of the time the harvesters leave it on the ground.
And Karachi is going to be doing a lot of ground clearing/moving, so I don't think any importation of aggregate is needed.
 
Well, you don't want to use just any random stuff you happen to run over while building the railroads.

Also, the non-tiberium rock you get out of a tiberium mining operation is in contact with, and potentially contaminated by, tiberium. It's inherently hazardous and there might be tiny flecks of tiberium in it, so you really don't want to use it for building material for your superhighway.

So if you were trying to locally source aggregate, sand, or other construction materials within the area of the Eastern Paris operation, you'd probably make intentional choices about where to quarry those materials and not just use whatever you sweep up.

The trick, of course, is that doing this is a significant resource gathering operation, and despite what Command and Conquer games sometimes imply... In real life it's a bad idea to do your resource extraction literally right next to a major battlefield and within the enemy's artillery range. So at least at first you're going to be importing all your construction materials except maybe dirt to throw into temporary sandbag walls, because you can't rely on having a local supply of those things until you've secured a wide, strongly held perimeter.

But then comes the challenge of driving highways and railroads up through hundreds of kilometers of Yellow Zone and mountains... And that is where you start really wanting to not have to haul every ton of gravel across thousands of kilometers of ocean to get it to the construction site.
 
The harvesting tendrils seem really effective at removing tiberium impurities.

Maybe some kind of construction equipment with tendrils we can run materials through to ensure no tiberium in whatever we're sourcing locally?
 
I would expect many industrial processes to now include a preparation step of filtering out any tiberium fragments, or just blasting them with sonic waves.

That is just how the world is now.
 
Back
Top