I imagine the CRPs would work like the ion collectors where what they produce is based off the amount of other projects we've done.

Like if we've done 4 food producing or agriculture based projects we now get 4 bonus food from the waste from them. If we do another project that would move to 5 bonus food. Or something like that.

It being based off waste seems to imply a direct connection to other stuff we're doing. Or at least that makes sense to me.
 
If the CRP will save Agri Dice by adding stored food using Infra. Both can be completed for this Plan

Q1 2061 is Ranching Dome 3 Dice.
Plus 1 in Freezing Plant

Q2 is either aquaponics or Agriculture mechanization 2 to 3 Dice

Q3 to Q4 Kudzu 3 Dice per quarter with a total of six.

Edit: That +1 Bonus is significant for our bureaucracy as it increases the chance for less completed projects to reach Omake Completion and is vastly cheaper than AEVA
I think you're making too many assumptions about how much caloric reclamation will help. We shold, at least for now, be planning around still needing to spend our Agriculture dice completing the Stored Food requirement. If we're lucky, the caloric reclamation project will let us wrap up that project in 2061Q3 or even 'Q2, and then we can start pursuing luxury options.

Or, instead of moldy-sock-cardboard we could suck it up and pay a bit more for at least some fungus bars, if not actual food. Geeze.
Bluntly, the Stored Food requirement is about survival needs. It's about GDI's capacity to keep the populace alive in the face of some kind of disastrous collapse of the food supply. Where the nature of this collapse is unpredictable and could be almost arbitrarily disastrous.

I think it behooves us to pursue all possible angles on that project until the target is met. There will, I have very little doubt, be another Stored Food target next Plan. I think we should take it, and we can worry about making nicer food in the storage facilities then.

At least we'll have the moldy sock cardboard chunks if we get truly desperate and it's that or die. Who knows, maybe we can marinate the stuff in something that temporarily numbs your tongue so you don't have to taste it! :p

Trade Moldy Sock Cardboard for Steaks, Butter, Eggs and Tea! Yey!
That's actually a valid argument in my opinion. Being able to use (nutritious!) moldy sock cardboard for the stored food reserves we'll hopefully never have to eat... Means we can spare more of our agricultural production capacity to make things people will very much want to eat.

To be honest, I am more. Inclined to Agriculture Mechanization than Aquaponics.

While Aquaponics is cheaper in terms of R. the Resources we have mean we can afford the Mechanization as it produces +20 Food at 400 Progress 2 Energy and 2 Capital Goods rather than Aquaponics which produces 18 Food at 480 Progress 3 Labor, 3 Logistics not much in terms of difference but slightly less effort in exchange of slightly higher amounts of food
Huh, you're right. The main problem is that as we approach the end of Phase 2 of the mechanization, we risk wasting at least one Agriculture die, which entirely cancels out the benefit of needing less Progress. Aquaponics, as far as we can tell, will go right on rolling over indefinitely, which makes me much less reluctant to throw dice at it.

I imagine the CRPs would work like the ion collectors where what they produce is based off the amount of other projects we've done.

Like if we've done 4 food producing or agriculture based projects we now get 4 bonus food from the waste from them. If we do another project that would move to 5 bonus food. Or something like that.

It being based off waste seems to imply a direct connection to other stuff we're doing. Or at least that makes sense to me.
The thing is, GDI had a lot of ongoing agriculture even at quest start. So there's no clearly defined number that says "this is how many projects you have making agricultural waste."

I think it's more likely that the rule is something like "spend X Progress on an Infrastructure project that generates +1 Stored Food. Want another +1 Stored Food? Spend X more Progress." And in theory, we can just keep doing this more or less indefinitely until we run out of agricultural waste to reprocess into edibles... and there is a lot of agricultural waste. Though to be fair, we're probably already using a fair amount of that for fertilizer or otherwise cycling it back into the food production process, just more indirectly, so at some point we might cause problems- in that we are taking carbon and processing it into sequestered yuck for people to eat in emergencies, rather than returning it to the carbon cycle of our existing farms/aquaponics/whatever.
 
Huh, you're right. The main problem is that as we approach the end of Phase 2 of the mechanization, we risk wasting at least one Agriculture die, which entirely cancels out the benefit of needing less Progress. Aquaponics, as far as we can tell, will go right on rolling over indefinitely, which makes me much less reluctant to throw dice at it.
We have some time available here. So we should be able to nudge it across the line without overshooting.

I imagine the CRPs would work like the ion collectors where what they produce is based off the amount of other projects we've done.
Perhaps bonus Food from non-Food producing crops like Spider Cotton or Kudzu?
 
I think one problem with the strategy of 'Use the Cardboard gym socks to fill our larders, then use real food (tm) to feed animals' is that you still need to use something of caloric value to make the gym socks. We need those rice stalks and other products that might otherwise be used as animal feed to make our CRP feedstock, and it turns out that you need *something* that the bacteria can actually crack open for calories, not just dust and post-processing newsprint scraps.
 
IIRC (and it hasn't been changed), there are two methods of using CRP. Agricultural, and infrastructural.

One is to build CRP facilities (either in bunkers, or as an alternate route of the waste reclamation process), but not to produce any actual product. Under this framework, we'd be installing the ability for people to reprocess organic matter if they are ever cut off from resupply (say due to a siege or a bioweapon). So the primary advantages would be that it would have a small footprint, would be trivial and nonlaborious to use, and would be able to significantly increase how far the initial food stores would go. This would be using infrastructure dice, and thus free up agricultural dice for other endeavors.

The other is to build CRP facilities, and the associated biomatter production and logistics, and then running said facilities. This would produce food, instead of food reserves, but be extremely unpopular as there is no acceptable use case for the product. People wouldn't want it taking up space on food reserve shelves, nor would it be considered acceptable to feed it to animals (other than perhaps bug farms [whether for food, chemicals, or consumer products], which are probably gated behind biodomes). So in effect, it would be technically increasing our food score, but the vast majority of it would probably rot away (with a small amount being consumed by people who lack the sense of taste, used in pranks/dares, or consumed by people who want a few more extremely cheap calories). This would be using agricultural dice, and thus be cutting into making greater quantities of more palatable food, and greater quantities of 'real' stockpiles.

If tiberium wasn't a thing, I'd expect that making CRP facilities as part of the waste reclamation process, and then burning or converting the end product into fertilizer (or other chemicals) would be standard practice for cleaning our water supplies. Since we have tiberium, we probably already have better water purifying processes available.
 
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If tiberium wasn't a thing CRP would probably work perfectly fine for things like feedstock for bioreactors of various stripes. Which, to be fair, we can still do. I just don't think that's a 'Treasury Secretary's attention' level investment.
 
@Rakuhn
Hmm…
Having the CRP facilities "ready to go" in bunkers, shelters and arcologies but not actually running seems like a really good idea to increase "stored food" reserves.
 
August 21, 2059
@Ithillid yet another "archived" news article

August 21, 2059

AP - InOps and BZ-13 Army Group representatives have issued statements categorically denying rumors that a Visceroid-related research project deep within YZ-13 has experienced a catastrophic failure, dismissing queries on the subject as "patently ridiculous" and "borderline seditious".

A BZ-13 Army Group representative did confirm that the 358th Mechanized Infantry Platoon and 413th Reconnaissance Platoon employed the new Pacifier Mobile Artillery Vehicles to reduce several Brotherhood positions in the yellow zone while repelling multiple counterattacks. Reports indicate that the Pacifier is able to keep up with the Initiative's Predator formations and reduces mobile artillery transit times by up to 50% in favorable terrain. Thanks to the resolution of an "Electronic Video Agent mis-categorization temporarily preventing deployment of point-defence systems to the operational area", GDI casualties in the series of engagements were light, although at least one person is missing in action; search and rescue efforts are on-going, but it has been acknowledged that the odds of recovery are relatively low given the amount of time that has passed, as well as on-going ion storm interference in the search area. The army spokesperson also reminded all on-duty personnel in yellow zones to practice proper personal atmospheric containment discipline, especially in light of "friendly fire" GDI casualties due to hallucinogenic gas attacks.

In other news, the heavy metal musical group "Tiberium Exiles" has announced a live reunion tour, sponsored by the Armed Forces Entertainment department. Their exact schedule is being kept a secret for the moment, but they will be performing across multiple green and yellow zone facilities. Composed of mostly Second Tiberium War veterans, their last live performance was before the Third Tiberium War, after which the band broke up "for personal reasons". While their popularity was never very high, the group has experienced an unexplained surge in digital download and physical media sales since the beginning of increased integration of yellow zone refugee populations into the GDI economy.

The lead guitarist, Mikko Juuna, issued the following statement - "We thought we'd get back together and wail on the ol' axes, drums and keyboard one more time; play for some of the guys we were singing about back in the day. They finally got the help they should have had decades ago, but there is still a lot more work to do."

---
To learn more about on-going operations by the 358th Mechanized Infantry Platoon
To learn more about the "Tiberium Exiles"

Our Journalistic Integrity Policy
Our Military Operational Security Compliance Policy
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As I understand it, that's the idea for using CRP to increase the "Stored Food" indicator. Of course, trying to have that for too much of that indicator is likely to result in Parliament getting pissed.
I don't know... I mean, they did offer a +40 Stored Food goal by the end of the next 4YP during renegotiation. As long as we don't neglect regular Food, I'm not sure Parliament would ever get annoyed that we stockpiled too much food in case of disaster.
 
The quality and palatability of stored food has never been great. MREs are Meals Rarely Enjoyed for a reason. Freeze Dried Food isn't that much better, so while CRP might have the taste and consistency of cardboard, people will eat it if they get hungry enough, and that must be good enough for the granaries.

People will be upset if they have to eat them, but as long as the mostly edible bricks of reprocessed agri waste are only used in dire emergency (IE we have lost all food production and need to crash rebuild farms) I don't see the issue. People understand, or will at least put out of mind, the palatability of CRP's products if they are truly long term shelf stable. At least until they are forced to eat them.
 
I don't know... I mean, they did offer a +40 Stored Food goal by the end of the next 4YP during renegotiation. As long as we don't neglect regular Food, I'm not sure Parliament would ever get annoyed that we stockpiled too much food in case of disaster.
I think what's meant is that if our way of stockpiling food is to say "we have installed recyclers that will turn poop and agricultural waste into edible starch blocks in case of an actual emergency," then the legislature is going to look at that and say "but have you considered stashing 100,000,000,000 cans of beans, though?"

If our plan is too reliant on the calorie reclamation system, the legislature may feel that we have obeyed the letter of the requirement they laid out for us while ignoring the spirit.

More generally, we can expect to be told to keep increasing the Stored Food stockpile in the next Plan. the fact that the legislature wanted those '+48 or +58 Stored Food by 2065" targets indicates that from their perspective, the Stored Food target for the Third Four Year Plan (the current one) was just a starting point.

I think one problem with the strategy of 'Use the Cardboard gym socks to fill our larders, then use real food (tm) to feed animals' is that you still need to use something of caloric value to make the gym socks. We need those rice stalks and other products that might otherwise be used as animal feed to make our CRP feedstock, and it turns out that you need *something* that the bacteria can actually crack open for calories, not just dust and post-processing newsprint scraps.
Yeah, but I suspect we can make a billion calories' worth of CRaP out of agricultural waste for a lot LESS agricultural waste than it takes to make a billion calories' worth of animal products. I don't think the supply of agricultural waste is likely to be our bottleneck here, and if it becomes one, I think @Ithillid will warn us.
 
Yeah, but I suspect we can make a billion calories' worth of CRaP out of agricultural waste for a lot LESS agricultural waste than it takes to make a billion calories' worth of animal products. I don't think the supply of agricultural waste is likely to be our bottleneck here, and if it becomes one, I think @Ithillid will warn us.
I think that it's a tautology that reducing the levels of the system you pass trophic energy through increases the efficiency, but you still need to feed 8 billion calories worth of agricultural waste or grain or *whatever* to the goats and cows and pigs. If we're already channeling our agricultural waste into CRP, then it's just gonna have to come from other sources. And maybe CRP can process anything into food, but it doesn't necessarily process with perfect efficiency. Most plant waste is just straight cellulose anyways, and that won't have a lot of proteins or fats. So you just get starch unless you process it further, which can only be energetically costly or require chemistry inputs.

Anyways, my hot take on agriculture remains that we need to spend some free dice to make up for the dice we didn't spend on this sector before.
 
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I think that it's a tautology that reducing the levels of the system you pass trophic energy through increases the efficiency, but you still need to feed 8 billion calories worth of agricultural waste or grain or *whatever* to the goats and cows and pigs. If we're already channeling our agricultural waste into CRP, then it's just gonna have to come from other sources. And maybe CRP can process anything into food, but it doesn't necessarily process with perfect efficiency. Most plant waste is just straight cellulose anyways, and that won't have a lot of proteins or fats. So you just get starch unless you process it further, which can only be energetically costly or require chemistry inputs.
Well, part of the point here is that Nod has figured out really good ways to convert plant waste into edibles, so it's something.

What I'm getting at is that there isn't some either-or switch where either we channel all our agricultural waste to the corpse starch machines, or we feed it to animals. It may well be that we can get a significant, impactful pile of Stored Food from only a small fraction of our agricultural waste, and still have plenty left over for livestock.

If we're to the point where running out of agricultural waste products and having to choose whether to turn them into corpse starch blocks or feed them to hogs is actually a problem... Well, I'm sure Ithillid will tell us. Until then, I'm not worrying about it.

Anyways, my hot take on agriculture remains that we need to spend some free dice to make up for the dice we didn't spend on this sector before.
It's touch-and-go.

If we're just concerned with hitting the Stored Food target, it's touch and go whether we need Free dice, which is a reason to throw at least a few into it. If the CRaP project lets us spend some Infrastructure dice, we might end up not needing the Free dice after all, but frankly it's worth it just to actually have some nice things in Agriculture for a change, because it's an area where we've chronically shortchanged things throughout the game in favor of other fields.
 
Well we currently don't have a dearth of goats, cows, or pigs to feed agricultural waste to at the moment. We do have fungus farms that we are currently feeding a wide variety of organic waste. We have house pet animals and chickens. I think we maybe have a few goats/cows/pigs somewhere in our blue zones, but other than the fungus I don't think we have any big consumers of agricultural waste at this time.
 
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CRPs could be incredibly useful for space.

The more stuff we can recycle into something useful the better off we will be when you're on a station or colony. Especially if it can be reprocessed into a food additive or better plant/animal food or something. And not just a brick of... something.
 
Yeah.

There's probably a way to do something with the processed food bricks even if they're unpalatable, if only grinding them up for carbon-rich fertilizer. Though that may not actually be more efficient than just plowing the cellulose back in directly.
 
CRPs could be incredibly useful for space.

The more stuff we can recycle into something useful the better off we will be when you're on a station or colony. Especially if it can be reprocessed into a food additive or better plant/animal food or something. And not just a brick of... something.
Yeah, extremely this.
The Tiberium economy does not exist in space.
 
Get far far better sensors for space, infrastructure, a space warfare branch that actually is able of interdicting threats in transfer orbits and the associated capabilities, ideally multiple ways to handle freefloating tib in space(read good TCN techs), and a lot of work before you suggest even bringing earth tib out to space.
And we are not going to be touching venus tib for a long time either.
 
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