Wait... you're sure that the Falak can't plausibly have existed before Tib War III? Because Nod's whole submarine fleet being new would make me more optimistic about GDI being able to oppose them on roughly equal terms...

The Falak? Yes. Although the development program might've existed earlier.

Keep in mind that I used 'the first time GDI heard of' and 'major submarine construction effort'.

Tiberium algae would've choked major or even minor fleet movements and greatly limited the ability of large ships to move around. This effectively mission killed the navies of GDI and Nod around the time of the Second Tiberium War for major operations, although relatively small craft and small operations would've likely been possible. Subs capable of these operations wouldn't be as large as a Falak, and any ships, including submarines, would've been relatively limited in number.

Post TW2 and the cleaning up of the oceans means that both GDI and Nod can field large navies again. They promptly did so with some quite frankly terribly designed ships, but the developers for the game were art majors, not naval design specialists so I'll just call it a day. In that time up until the Falak, GDI no doubt knew that Nod was still building submarines, and probably was experimenting with building and fielding large submarines again, but did not spot any efforts to proceed from prototypes and one off special cases to full on roll out of entire fleets worth of submarines of large size until the Falak class.
 
So Stalin's armies managed to get close enough to send V1's at Britain during the war that is a interesting tidbit.
Uh that was the Nazis, in this universe history proceeded as normal until the Tiberium asteroid landed, we're not in the Red Alert timeline.


As for the Brotherhood, it's perfectly understandable that the 85% of the world we left for dead is still holding a grudge. GDI didn't pull back to the Blue Zones and turtle up to save the maximum number of possible lives, it pulled back and turtled up in such a way that saved as much of the old world order and its capitalists and politicians as possible. Trying to pretend that the TW1-era GDI was a unified and enlightened team of The Good Guys who selflessly tried to save humanity is straight up revisionism. In TW1, the GDI wasn't even a state, it was a combined EU/NATO/Russian "peacekeeping" force composed of and run by 1990's Americans/Europeans/Russians (and their associated spheres of influence like the Japanese and Commonwealth). There was no massive humanitarian campaign to evacuate equatorial regions, there was the US and the EU and the Russians all doing their own things with their own domestic policies. It's historical canon that in the 90's/00's GDI member states (because GDI didn't exist as a unified state back then like it does today, impossible to stress that enough) were too busy making money and preserving capitalism and being racist to take in a billion Indians and Indonesians and Vietnamese etc.

It's just making shit up to claim that we were the Undisputed Good Guys Who Loved Humanity and the Brotherhood were the Undisputed Bad Guys Who Hated Humanity, we were George Bush and they were the people he and his CIA buddies warcrimed. Like literally, not even metaphorically. They're allowed to be pissed about the 90's/00's.

Then by the TW2 era, GDI was starting to get significantly more unitary, but still wasn't exactly going out of their way to invite the teeming masses into the Blue Zones. The main way your average Yellow Zone citizen has interacted with the Initiative from about 2020-2050 was getting their cousin murdered for being in the wrong place at the wrong time near a GDI resource extraction colony. The Initiative only ever showed up to mine Tiberium (your Tiberium that you need to survive, carried off to some far away Blue Zone for somebody else's benefit) and shoot anybody who tried to stop them. We weren't going out of our way to seek out hundreds of millions of refugees from TW2-TW3, we were turtled behind our Blue Zone walls so hard that we didn't notice the gigantic mechanized armies stacked up right outside at the start of TW3. The Initiative obviously didn't have a very established rapport with the people right next door if nobody liked us enough to tip us off about the armored regiment parked in their back yard.

The 2050-2060 era is so remarkable because it's the first time ever that the Initiative has really bothered to try caring about people outside the Blue Zones. This got mentioned all the time when we were actually playing through those years, and again in the retrospectives when the Grangers retired, and again recently in the war updates. Caring about Yellow Zoners is a brand new policy that only started because of how much the war fucked us up and cleared out all the old politicians. The past 60 years in the Yellow Zones have been characterized by the GDI totally ignoring you at best, and maybe sending their jackbooted thugs to murder you and your neighbors if you happened to be living near the wrong Tiberium field or taking supplies/protection from the wrong local warlord. That's just the setting canon, yeah we have lots of propaganda about how we're the glorious liberal world order who loves all humanity but in practice we've spent generations being the Anglo-American Oppression Machine with a new coat of paint - it's not a coincidence that the government is based largely out of the old UK or old US and everybody speaks English. Our former colonial subjects notice that and they're correct to be suspicious.
 
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I really don't mind people holding a grudge against GDI.

But I really do mind them using that grudge to justify loyalty to Nod, which has done even worse, by creating the entire tiberium crisis as it now exists and by refusing to use absurdly advanced productive technologies to fix things even when they could.

Worth noting that we have a lot of food that's going into the reserves. 0 food in this case isn't "people going hungry" it's "divert less food production to reserves". We'd have to lose a hell of a lot of food to start with people going hungry again.
Yeah, but in that case, the lack of food going into the reserves means, yes, we miss the Stored Food target. I agree.

Point is, we actually do need to ensure a surplus of Food, even as refugees consume more. Not just hit the Stored Food target at the price of running down the existing surplus to near-zero. Which is why I'm not satisfied with super-minimalist takes on how we don't "need" to build more than, say, two phases of Blue Zone Aquaponics.

Put this on a rocket and you have a missile capable of piercing the ion cannon defence grid. So much for that not being a concern...
My understanding is that we do have non-ion space weapons platforms to defend critical targets. So while that's not good, I don't think we can automatically say that it's bad.

You assume it would fit on a rocket, much less work while on a rocket far away from any other such pylon devices.
To be fair, if you have a magic machine that can pump an arbitrary amount of electric power from a groundside power plant into a mobile platform, you can build some really goddamn big rockets.

A bit of curiousity but in the recruitment option for the next plan. Should we choose Graduates, How many will we add on Military, 1 Dice, 2 Dice?
Honestly, I think we should seriously consider adding no dice to Military.

We will roll 128 Military dice in the Fourth Four Year Plan, even if we don't spend a single Free die. If that's not at least close to enough, we're doing something very wrong. And I, for one, would like to be able to expand our space infrastructure faster, or keep building light/heavy industrial projects, or not be so dice-bottlenecked in Agriculture, or a lot of things.

Unless we get some really heavy Military commitments next Plan, so heavy that 128 dice is barely enough to meet them all... I'd rather just leave that area as-is. We added +3 Military dice over the course of this Plan, as I recall, possibly +4. I think it may be enough.

Also, would there be a direct option of adding Die directly from labor?
Probably not, since there wasn't back when the Labor surplus was much bigger than it is now, right after the Third Tiberium War ended. Dice don't just represent massed manpower, they represent Treasury's administrative capability to get stuff done, this tends to require very specialized and talented individuals and groups.

Direct Treasury Education and Employment Program

With the ever increasing need for personnel for Treasury operations. A suggested way to increase Treasury Capability is to directly handle training for their employment needs. While this will be time and resource consuming. It should allow the Treasury to directly recruit a number of personnel to expand operations.

(-15 Resources per turn until period ends, -6 Labor -6 Dice to any category chosen, +1 Die after 8 Turns. Can Choose as many per category. Cannot be used on Free Die)
The -6 Dice to category sounds very punishing, or do you mean -6 to dice rolls?

More generally, I don't think @Ithillid wants to give us a lot more dice; we already have a lot.

Um, didn't we just capture some Nod shipyards in Australia, likely with some examples to learn from?
I'm pretty sure Bintang's main shipyards are closer to her core territory, and shipyard infrastructure and experts were almost certainly prime targets for destruction and evacuation when Nod was pulling out what it could.

Also Ion Cannon's don't leave the places they are hit with irradiated to the point human's can't live there. Nod has been using Nukes since the First War and they can't to my mind claim that the Ion Cannons excuse their use of nuclear weapons.
Nah. That part's actually fair.

Like, Bintang isn't morally excusable- though she's compelling and there's a certain red-blooded admiration in me, because I respect a tough opponent who's determined and who can, at least in their own headspace, put together a badass internal narrative with a streak of some respectable human traits.

But. Bintang's choice to continue Pirate Queening and praising Kane when she could totally just declare neutrality and her people's lives would probably actively get better... Well, yeah, that's not excusable.

At the same time, I think she's right about the nukes.

See, nuclear strikes don't inherently leave battlefields so irradiated that "no one can live there." Hiroshima and Nagasaki are thriving cities today in real life. Nuclear fallout can have that effect, but does not always have it, depending on how nuclear weapons are used and how long you wait for the radiation to die down.

And Bintang didn't use nuclear weapons on Japan, even though she clearly could have. She used them on our warships, on the high seas, where no one could possibly get hurt who wasn't a GDI military sailor who theoretically signed up for this shit.

I honestly think that Nod is within their rights to say "look, if you feel entitled to take half-kiloton potshots at us with orbital death rays, we're entitled to take half-kiloton potshots at you with fission bombs."

Man you guys are absolutely furious that these people don't just roll over and let us annex them.
I'm personally not, but Nod is fucking horrible and they are actively going out of the way to make the world worse. It's like fighting climate change denialists with nukes whose entire economy runs on some kind of absurd magitech made possible by coal rolling.

So it's obnoxious when they try to claim the moral high ground while deliberately pursuing a course of action that has already destroyed most of the world and is making the destruction of the rest far, far more likely.
 
Like, Bintang isn't morally excusable- though she's compelling and there's a certain red-blooded admiration in me, because I respect a tough opponent who's determined and who can, at least in their own headspace, put together a badass internal narrative with a streak of some respectable human traits.

The goal overall is really to make the Brotherhood characters compelling, to make them human. To put people with reasons and goals up against you, rather than them being simple orcs that want to destroy you for simply wearing the wrong colors.
 
But. Bintang's choice to continue Pirate Queening and praising Kane when she could totally just declare neutrality and her people's lives would probably actively get better... Well, yeah, that's not excusable.

Yeah Yao and the Caravanserai are probably the most genuinely humanitarian Brotherhood factions on the board right now, just by virtue of agreeing to stop killing each other and focus on other problems instead.

Krukov, Stahl, and Bintang all have valid criticisms of the Initiative but I'd be fine giving all three of them a big mansion and a new governorship-for-life or whatever it takes over their territories if they'd lay down their arms and start enforcing our laws/collecting our taxes. Continuing to drag out the war is on them and their egos, there's probably a deal for all of them that we could grit our teeth and take if they'd come to the table.

Mehretu, Reynaldo, and Gideon are probably too genuinely ideological to make useful peace with and will have to be dug out unfortunately. India and Atlantis are big ol' ???, in terms of existence even on the latter.
 
Agriculture Memeplan you guys, we need an agriculture memeplan to hammer out our bigger strategic food reserves, freeze-dry those reserves, and mechanize our productivity to get +20 food in one turn. Oh, and do some aquaponics on the side

After all, we've idled a total of 11 Agriculture dice this plan. Going full meme doesn't even restore us to parity with where we ought to be.

That said I expect the real meme plans this turn to be a lot more...tenticular. It's a hell of a big project, but it's also a hell of a big payout.
 
I'm actually enjoying our dear friends at NOD Inc.

Stahl and Bitang have that underdog energy that you can't help but want to have another go with. Our future battles will be legendary!

Giddy-boy and Krukov can continue to mald at getting treated like a pinata.

Alazar Mehretu is in a situation of his own making and I will continue to enjoy watching him lose ground to the Caravanserai.

And then there's Reynaldo who decided to do the unexpected and reached out to an adult for help. (I'm not even mad at that It's actually impressive.)
 
There's a reason the "Forgotten" are called the "Forgotten", and it's not in reference to anything the Brotherhood did.

Changing those minds will take the work of generations.

The Forgotten as we saw in Tiberium Sun have always had a shit relationship with the Brotherhood of Nod. They are called the Forgotten because they felt left behind by everyone. Tratos may have worked with Kaine but when he realized that Kaine cared nothing for the Forgotten he turn against him which cost him his life in the end.

GDI in the years before the Second Tiberium was not a government and thus did not control the policies of the Nations that funded it. Also everyone but Kaine himself had no understanding of just how dangerous Tiberium was to every living thing on the planet in the years before, during and just after the First War. Nod murdered civilians in the thousands in the First War and turned a ton of people into mutant monsters. Nod has never had the moral high ground on GDI and the initiative has always since it realized the threat that Tiberium posed work to bring the Green Space Rock under control.


I think you'll find that was the Germans.
Red Alert isn't canon

So we are ignoring that Kaine was a character in the First Red Alert Game and that the Timeline split after the alternate version of World War 2 and that things like the Mammoth tank existed and exist for this quest?
 
I really don't mind people holding a grudge against GDI.

But I really do mind them using that grudge to justify loyalty to Nod, which has done even worse, by creating the entire tiberium crisis as it now exists and by refusing to use absurdly advanced productive technologies to fix things even when they could.

...

To be fair, if you have a magic machine that can pump an arbitrary amount of electric power from a groundside power plant into a mobile platform, you can build some really goddamn big rockets.
NOD is a collection of states in an existential war with GDI, with a certainly amount of shared culture, and even a religion. (Yes, a fair amount of that was put into place by Kane as a tool of manipulation, but most of them don't know that.)
A lot of people seem to be asking something that is at least as much of a cultural stretch as asking someone who grew up in 1960s USA, to accept that if everyone just accepted Communism the world would be a much better place. Okay, I exaggerate a bit, but not all that much. A 50-year war causes cultural wounds, and even a decade of being not "imperialist jackboot oppressors" will only do so much to heal them. (Also, the Initiative First party is a thing. And they *do* want to go back to the policy of "jackboot, or jackboot harder.")
I'm not trying to say that Bintang isn't one of the cynical manipulators who furthers war for her own personal power. I'm saying that the cultural currents she is harnessing are, in many cases, justified.

On the third tiberium-powered cyborg hand, if Bintang decided to tell GDI she'd be willing to retire if we pay for an indefinite supply of buff poolboys and colorful drinks, I am pragmatic enough to take that deal in a heartbeat.

As regard the pylon-on-a-rocket, what I'm saying is that we have no idea what the range on it is, and assuming it can reach even low orbit is... quite a stretch.
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So we are ignoring that Kaine was a character in the First Red Alert Game and that the Timeline split after the alternate version of World War 2 and that things like the Mammoth tank existed and exist for this quest?
Yes, because it's been repeatedly stated that RA is not canon to this timeline. Also, Kane, not "Kaine".
 
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The goal overall is really to make the Brotherhood characters compelling, to make them human. To put people with reasons and goals up against you, rather than them being simple orcs that want to destroy you for simply wearing the wrong colors.

I actually like this, Red Alert kitsch can be fun but actual characters is better.

Though they have some points, I'd still drop fire from orbit on the lot of them.
 
So we are ignoring that Kaine was a character in the First Red Alert Game and that the Timeline split after the alternate version of World War 2 and that things like the Mammoth tank existed and exist for this quest?
Australia also exists in the Red Alert timeline. That doesn't mean that Red Alert is part of this history.

But more importantly, the QM said that it wasn't canon.
 
Honestly, I think we should seriously consider adding no dice to Military.

We will roll 128 Military dice in the Fourth Four Year Plan, even if we don't spend a single Free die. If that's not at least close to enough, we're doing something very wrong. And I, for one, would like to be able to expand our space infrastructure faster, or keep building light/heavy industrial projects, or not be so dice-bottlenecked in Agriculture, or a lot of things.

Unless we get some really heavy Military commitments next Plan, so heavy that 128 dice is barely enough to meet them all... I'd rather just leave that area as-is. We added +3 Military dice over the course of this Plan, as I recall, possibly +4. I think it may be enough

I was thinking that maybe we can expand Military Dice to world conquest levels without tapping into Free Dice that we can use to other Categories like Infrastructure, Orbital and maybe even Services. @Ithillid did mention that 10 Dice is take over the world amount of spending and we want to reduce the amount of Free Dice Spent considering the incoming Super Glacier Mines that will massively boost the economy as well as other refill the Dice Amount from the Automatic Options like Arcology Bureau and possibly Consumable Bureau that he mentioned.


The -6 Dice to category sounds very punishing, or do you mean -6 to dice rolls

The latter, more specifically, this will remove some instructors from the particular field. To make it less overpowered, it can be like the AEVA and make 1 Dice unavailable rather than just the roll bonus.
 
The goal overall is really to make the Brotherhood characters compelling, to make them human. To put people with reasons and goals up against you, rather than them being simple orcs that want to destroy you for simply wearing the wrong colors.
Yeah, and it's working great.

So we are ignoring that Kaine was a character in the First Red Alert Game and that the Timeline split after the alternate version of World War 2 and that things like the Mammoth tank existed and exist for this quest?
Your objections don't even make any sense.

Sure, there's stuff in Red Alert that is an intentional "call forward" to the 'Tiberium Wars' series of the game. Mammoth tanks appear in Red Alert. So does Kane. Guess what else appears in Red Alert that also appears in Command and Conquer?

Rifles. Trees. Glasses of water. None of these things prove that Red Alert logically must have happened in order for the events of the Tiberium Wars games to have happened, which is the point.
 
So trying to act like GDI has always cared about the entire mass of humanity and has spent as much time and effort on humanitarian outreach as we have in our specific tenure, is disingenuous.

I would point out that it was not GDI's job to care about the entire mass of Humanity as they were simply the military forces dedicated to the fight against Nod in the First War and they were still mostly that in the lead up to the second. GDI does not hold responsibility for the spread of Tiberium like the Brotherhood does because Kaine and his followers have always ruled the areas they control.

The failure of the governments of the world in the face of something they did not understand and could barely fight does not make GDI responsible for the spread of Tiberium. It simply means that Humanity as a whole got fucked over by Tiberium and Kaine could careless about that.

We have seen over the Three Wars fought between the two organizations a hardening of hated and beliefs that the people under the control of each group have for and about each other. With Abatement technology advancing and victory over large parts of the world however we have a chance to show millions of people that GDI's way is the better way and that is how we show we are better leaders of humanity.

Australia also exists in the Red Alert timeline. That doesn't mean that Red Alert is part of this history.

But more importantly, the QM said that it wasn't canon.

That's fine just wanted to be sure, the QM can take and drop what they want. Is there a place we have put down what is cannon for the quest for what happened before the first Tiberium War.

I actually like this, Red Alert kitsch can be fun but actual characters is better.

Though they have some points, I'd still drop fire from orbit on the lot of them.

I agree, our goal is to destroy the Brotherhood as a power base for Kane to do shit with not kill everyone who has lived in a area under Nod control.

NOD is a collection of states in an existential war with GDI, with a certainly amount of shared culture, and even a religion. (Yes, a fair amount of that was put into place by Kane as a tool of manipulation, but most of them don't know that.)
A lot of people seem to be asking something that is at least as much of a cultural stretch as asking someone who grew up in 1960s USA, to accept that if everyone just accepted Communism the world would be a much better place. Okay, I exaggerate a bit, but not all that much. A 50-year war causes cultural wounds, and even a decade of being not "imperialist jackboot oppressors" will only do so much to heal them. (Also, the Initiative First party is a thing. And they *do* want to go back to the policy of "jackboot, or jackboot harder.")
I'm not trying to say that Bintang isn't one of the cynical manipulators who furthers war for her own personal power. I'm saying that the cultural currents she is harnessing are, in many cases, justified.

On the third tiberium-powered cyborg hand, if Bintang decided to tell GDI she'd be willing to retire if we pay for an indefinite supply of buff poolboys and colorful drinks, I am pragmatic enough to take that deal in a heartbeat.

I agree if she offered peace we should not turn it down out of hand, the issue I would have is we don't know how loyal her and the other Warlord are to Kane and how they would react to his return to the World stage because we know he is not dead and is working on plans in secret. If they are the kind that would follow him to the end then we can't let them continue to hold power.

Yeah, and it's working great.

Your objections don't even make any sense.

Sure, there's stuff in Red Alert that is an intentional "call forward" to the 'Tiberium Wars' series of the game. Mammoth tanks appear in Red Alert. So does Kane. Guess what else appears in Red Alert that also appears in Command and Conquer?

Rifles. Trees. Glasses of water. None of these things prove that Red Alert logically must have happened in order for the events of the Tiberium Wars games to have happened, which is the point.

I was not objecting, I just wanted to be sure that was how the QM was doing it for this quest . Second I always thought the games having the same time line up until the arrival of Tiberium worked just fine but if you don't that's okay.
 
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That's fine just wanted to be sure, the QM can take and drop what they want. Is there a place we have put down what is cannon for the quest for what happened before the first Tiberium War.
The problem was in all the details, ranging from the military hardware (an absolute mish mash of stuff from basically all over the place and timeline) to the Chronosphere.
 
I agree, our goal is to destroy the Brotherhood as a power base for Kane to do shit with not kill everyone who has lived in a area under Nod control.
No, our goal is to save humanity (and if possible, Earth) from Tiberium. The moment fighting Nod becomes unnecessary to that goal - it is necessary right now, since abatement requires aggressive mining and consequently pushing further into Nod's traditional territory - such as Kane making a deal for the TCN and bringing them into line, we are laying down arms. We're the 'Global Defence Initiative,' not the 'Kill Nod Initiative,' and it would do us well to not forget that.

If Q4 2061 began with Bintang offering to cease all hostilities in exchange for continuing acknowledgement of her functional governorship over Oceania and possibly a beach house in San Diego, the only modifiers I'd be asking over would be what colour she wants it painted and how many hot and cold running canopian stereotypes she would like for her personal staff.
 
No, our goal is to save humanity (and if possible, Earth) from Tiberium. The moment fighting Nod becomes unnecessary to that goal - it is necessary right now, since abatement requires aggressive mining and consequently pushing further into Nod's traditional territory - such as Kane making a deal for the TCN and bringing them into line, we are laying down arms. We're the 'Global Defence Initiative,' not the 'Kill Nod Initiative,' and it would do us well to not forget that.

If Q4 2061 began with Bintang offering to cease all hostilities in exchange for continuing acknowledgement of her functional governorship over Oceania and possibly a beach house in San Diego, the only modifiers I'd be asking over would be what colour she wants it painted and how many hot and cold running canopian stereotypes she would like for her personal staff.

One I don't think Kane plans are going to be a repeat of the Fourth game in the series and even if it was I would not just him with the keys to the Kingdom. Also I would have to ask what the point of even fighting Nod is in some parts of the world if we just leave them in charge with a power base Kane can use when he comes out of hiding. Peace is one thing, not having an conditions for that peace is quite anther.

Kane has been beaten before yet he has not stopped and rolling over for him when we don't need him to stop the spread of Tiberium at this point in time seems foolishly naive to me.
 
If Q4 2061 began with Bintang offering to cease all hostilities in exchange for continuing acknowledgement of her functional governorship over Oceania and possibly a beach house in San Diego, the only modifiers I'd be asking over would be what colour she wants it painted and how many hot and cold running canopian stereotypes she would like for her personal staff.
That reminds me, so I will share a set of non-serious weaknesses I wrote up a while ago for the warlords, which is not entirely non-serious.
Stahl: talking
Gideon: anything other than talking
Bintang: beefcake poolboys. Also, tentacle monsters, Jack Sparrow
Krukov: Pirates
Mehretu: Chronic Backstabbing Disorder
Reynaldo: spontaneous disappearances
Qinglian: Mountains, Other People's Plans
 
One I don't think Kane plans are going to be a repeat of the Fourth game in the series and even if it was I would not just him with the keys to the Kingdom. Also I would have to ask what the point of even fighting Nod is in some parts of the world if we just leave them in charge with a power base Kane can use when he comes out of hiding. Peace is one thing, not having an conditions for that peace is quite anther.
GDI has a long history of successfully suborning individual Nod warlords to the point where when Kane returns from occlusion, he has to practically reconquer large chunks of Nod from scratch before he can even use it for anything. This is part of the plot in both Tiberian Sun and Kane's Wrath, as I recall.

So just for starters, us flipping the loyalties of nominally Nod warlords to the point where they stop fighting us helps because those warlords may NOT follow Kane's call to arms in the event that he shows up and calls for a Fourth Tiberium War. And importantly, Kane knows this, and knows that he has tried and failed to conquer GDI by brute force three times.

Kane is not a demented "attack GDI endlessly" machine. He has recognizable goals, which do not strictly require him to rule the Earth to achieve them. It is entirely possible that if we convince him that he'd lose, he will simply not try to launch a Fourth Tiberium War, on the grounds that it's a waste of time and two times out of the past three he's tried it, he wound up getting shot or ionized to within an inch of his life.

...

Another advantage is that if we soften up or neutralize one warlord, it frees up assets to push against another. For example, engaging with Nod India would be much simpler if Bintang weren't covering their flank with a powerful naval force. If Bintang agrees to just stop fighting us, we immediately gain huge strategic advantages in the Indian and Pacific Oceans. Qinglian might very well surrender to us then and there on the spot for fear of being next under our gunsights (an unimpeded GDI Pacific Fleet could probably mess her up badly), and suddenly Karachi would seem a lot simpler and more practical, as would Colombo.

That reminds me, so I will share a set of non-serious weaknesses I wrote up a while ago for the warlords, which is not entirely non-serious.
Stahl: talking
Gideon: anything other than talking
Bintang: beefcake poolboys. Also, tentacle monsters, Jack Sparrow
Krukov: Pirates
Mehretu: Chronic Backstabbing Disorder
Reynaldo: spontaneous disappearances
Qinglian: Mountains, Other People's Plans
I think spontaneous disappearances will, in the end, prove to be Reynaldo's greatest strength and weakness.

Also, Bintang has weaponized tentacle monsters and unleashes them on her enemies at will, so I'm pretty sure she's the one wearing the pants in that relationship.
 
I'm personally not, but Nod is fucking horrible and they are actively going out of the way to make the world worse. It's like fighting climate change denialists with nukes whose entire economy runs on some kind of absurd magitech made possible by coal rolling.
I may be mistaken, but didn't Nod India just make their own Blue (Violet?) Zone? Nod (and the separate groups within it, for that matter) has a different idea of how the life with Tiberium and its control look like, but it is more complicated than "make the world worse", in my opinion.
 
Here's the thing, I agree with you here but do you think any of this matters to the people that got left behind? Sure, GDI couldn't save everyone but that doesn't change the fact that they were abandoned and worse, looted while they were abandoned. The cold logic of "well this could save people elsewhere" doesn't stop the anger of people that were left to die with nowhere to turn to but NOD
Oh 100% that's true. You can't expect people on the ground to be objective about the world's ending. From Bintang's and NOD's perspective, that tracks out, especially when the really bad shit that's happened since you can't properly process because a lot of it was orchestrated by your own messiah figure for reasons you don't know but should totally be grateful for. NOD is made up of people that did get left behind for whatever reason- I can't argue otherwise even if I think it wasn't done with malice or explicit intent.

It's cold comfort at best when the world as you know it ends and what little you have is being requisitioned for a nebulous greater good, maybe nowadays GDI's own internal culture could accept that- because they genuinely see themselves as a global civilization that's had to make numerous sacrifices to save the day but that has it's own problems, I imagine that a lot of Initiative First's core following, despite the easy parallels with bigots and reactionaries, is GDI's own equivalent to overzealous fanatics. People who think GDI is justified and has a mandate for everything it's done because from their perspective GDI is the only thing that's held back numerous apocalypses- I suspect some of those refugees who went IF at first went that way for some of those reasons. Course, IF's party leader is a bigoted reactionary right now, but they could morph into something more dangerous.

So I suppose by this point I've collectively ranted about 800+ words to say: TLDR; everyone's perspective gets skewed all over the place during the worse mass die off in recorded history. Balls get dropped, pants are caught down, etc- and it's probably easier to see malice or betrayal in that than accept that in the sheer enormity of the calamity you and yours slipped through the cracks because that was the best that could be managed.
 
Balls get dropped, pants are caught down, etc- and it's probably easier to see malice or betrayal in that than accept that in the sheer enormity of the calamity you and yours slipped through the cracks because that was the best that could be managed.
Someone used 'enormity' correctly. So beautiful...

Also, very accurate. Humans are so wired to see patterns, that it would be really hard to accept that your world was destroyed without purpose/intention.
 
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