Yes it is time for me to get out of lurking and support righteousness. And it will be good to have support, although for true capitalism liberalism would need to go of course. For how can markets be truly free when they are under constant threat by democracy and egalitarianism.
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
Putting it out there that I'm not supporting any plans that involve the grants in the near future, and I absolutely don't get where the hate for central planning comes from. I get that the thread is prioritizing increasing the current standard of living, but our centrally planned economy is doing that perfectly well. What would you people have sacrificed to get an extra trickle of consumer goods into the economy? Abatement? The Yellow zones? Remember, these free market efforts are going to be a net drain for years after they are implemented, it's not going to be an immediate gain. It's far more efficient to just swing to a consumer goods/QOL focus for a turn or two since the Capital Goods fire will be nearly out, after Boston is completed. The only reason we haven't invested heavily in consumer goods because the thread has been stuck reacting to crisis after crisis.
That's the thing though, this is a quest and Nod is a malicious actor, as are the Scrin. The crises will not stop, so we may not have the time, inclination or justification to ever fully rectify those issues.
Much like how giving up budget to other departments netted us PS it was also noted in fluff to have given desperately needed aid to flagging or failing portions of the government that had been neglected.
The grants are more of the same, but non-government.
In this case, it would be better to just come to a consensus as a thread to ensure we throw a dice or two at consumer goods and various QOL each turn? We have already started to do that, with Toy Factories, though finishing that was delayed due to political pushback from the Free Market Party & Hawks due to the Nat 1. Even then, didn't the thread just pivot to schools for a while? Wasn't their whole argument outrage over how we were spending money on toys rather than NOD and Tiberium? But it's suddenly fine if we give private industry 3 times the resources(5 vs. 15) to get a lesser return? That money still isn't going to fight NOD or TIberium.
I can see the mechanical argument for abstracting it out with grants, but now is very much not the time. We would get far more efficiency and flexibility out of just voting for QOL plans, as a thread.
We have other examples.
[ ] Personal Electric Appliances Factories
(Progress 0/200: 10 resources per die) (+++ Consumer Goods, --- Electricity)
Average 40 resources to setup, but eats up --- electricity, which would need other projects to rectify. So at best the grants are net neutral and use no dice.
Another one:
[ ] Personal Pharmaceuticals Plants
(Progress 0/200: 15 resources per die) (++ Consumer Goods, + Health)
4 dice/ 60 resources needed to give the benefits above. Grants would match it with 45 spent in 3 quarters.
As a counter example, this one makes more sense for us to do:
[ ] Luxury Aquaponic Bays
(Progress 0/100: 10 Resources per die) (++ Consumer Goods)
Cheap and simple. But it has Luxury in the title so you can bet that it will be a harder sell to put into a plan.
Sailor_Skarro
The Lurker
Here's the thing, I don't think the thread is going to consistently vote for QoL plans. I think the thread is going to get distracted by the latest shiny or fire and go racing off after that. I want to have Consumer Goods just sitting in the background, passively ticking up. I also want the Free Market Party to back off a bit.
Therefore, I think one grant would be okay for now.
Therefore, I think one grant would be okay for now.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
As I see it, the problem may arise where we are eternally distracted by more important projects. Paying for one or two grants will slowly fix the consumer goods issue in the background, 8 years for one grant, 4 for two etc.
EDIT: We would then have a definitive timeline we could speed up with our own efforts. And it would buy us some support points from various political factions.
EDIT: We would then have a definitive timeline we could speed up with our own efforts. And it would buy us some support points from various political factions.
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Delegation is a superpower you know.
And if your proposal is to herd the thread into always dedicating a die or two to those matters, what is the functional difference? Heck, the grant would involve less heartache once its up and running due to lack of debate or need to place those dice towards those goals every turn.
I guess I'm going to have to agree to disagree. I enjoy the greater freedom of choice that allowing us to directly focus on consumer goods gives, and I don't want this entirely spun off into the background.
I would rather have the freedom to choose what we do than have this abstracted away. Also, we have enough support right now, and increasingly more ways to get support. I prefer to focus on our current base, the Developmentalists and Yellow Zoners. We are even making progress on the Hawks, with our increasing focus on the military. We don't need to make everyone happy.
Efficiency. Multiple people have pointed out it's more efficient to manually allocate resources. Flexibility - Grants are specific to the area. More grants, more resources. We can go + Consumer goods all the time for 15, sure, but that's not all that defines QOL. Might end up being better to rush consumer goods at a point when things end up relatively calm. Delegation has it's perks, but the cost is too much for this point in the quest. I'm willing to revisit the possibility next plan, but now it's an unwise use of resources.
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- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
Rename it to Flavourings for the Fungus Bars and it will sell like pre-War hotcakes.
- Location
- USA
Given that eats into the budget for the next plan and we are already going to face a strong contraction? That is pretty bad. As is we have options to bump up consumer goods:
Toy Plants 68/100 5 R per dice for ++ likely 5 resources to finish (10 total)
Personal Pharmaceuticals Plants 0/200 15 R per dice ++ but also + Health likely 60 R but adds health as well
Luxury Aquaponics 0/100 10 R for ++ likely 20 R
Craft Shop and Maker Facilities 0/200 5 R + but also +5 PS likely 15-20
Publishing Houses 0/150 10 R ++ and +5 PS likely 20-30
So Toy Plants 5 R per +, Luxury Aquaponics 10 R per +, Publishing Houses 10-15 R per + and Craft Shop at 15 R per + are better options since 2 (sometimes 3) are more efficient and the latter two also come with +5 PS.
And looking forward to the next 4 year plan -15 R per turn when we are down to 200 R a turn to start is a hit we cant afford. Military and Tiberium needs constant invetment, we still have infra issues, and in addition to cap goods we need power for mil factories. That says nothing about ever getting to work on orbital projects or keeping up enough food production to also do a stockpile. All of which we are doing with fewer dice.
When it comes to grants its also worth noting they will likely become more efficient as they run. The QM has stated when it comes to privet enterprises the grants are effectively rebuilding the private sector from the ground up. So any private enterprise is going to be small and inefficient compared to what we can do. But, once those enterprises are set up they will then be able turn a profit and invest into expansion and growth becoming more efficient once they have time to build up.
In many ways we should consider the current grants "stage one" of a megaproject. And much like other stage ones they will produce little to no return but instead allow a further buildup that will be productive.
In many ways we should consider the current grants "stage one" of a megaproject. And much like other stage ones they will produce little to no return but instead allow a further buildup that will be productive.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I think it'll make sense to do the grants after we're not quite so hard up for resources- and we're actively expanding tiberium harvesting as I understand it, so that day should come in time.
Its been 12 turns already and that still has not happened. I am beginning to believe the challenge is built such that we will never have enough resources.
So no, I don't think that day will come.
- Location
- USA
Keep in mind in 4 turns our income is dropping thanks to all the new income getting distributed according to what percent we take so that would be a while given that we cant use all of our dice right now.
We will start with more income than the 1st turn though no bailouts, I do think at some point we hit that but that might be during the 3rd plan
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Hmm, still looking at things and catching up with the threadmarks...
Christ the Blue Zones are shrinking fast. I'm beginning to see why people are freaking out about that even in the face of economic collapse from capital goods and consumer goods shortages.
Christ the Blue Zones are shrinking fast. I'm beginning to see why people are freaking out about that even in the face of economic collapse from capital goods and consumer goods shortages.
- Location
- USA
Yeah if Tiberium was marked with the +/- system it would likely be at ---------- or so right now.
- Location
- New York
Well, the problem is that there is too much of that blasted self replicating alien crystal and not because there is too little of it.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I think we're beyond the +/- system and the Tiberium rating is firmly fixed at "OH BALLS!"
We also have a political mandate to reach 95 (I think) points of total Tiberium abatement in the next three turns.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Now that I think about it, what do our overall Tiberium spread numbers look like?
Q1 2050
Blue: 17.35
Yellow: 32.62
Red: 50.03
Q2 2050
Blue: 16.73
(-0.62)
Yellow: 33.22, 1 mitigation (+1)
(+0.6)
Red: 50.15, 1 mitigation (+1)
(+0.12)
Q3 2050
Blue: 15.80
(-0.93)
Yellow: 33.68, 6 mitigation (+5)
(+0.46)
Red: 50.62, 1 mitigation
(+0.47)
Q4 2050
Blue: 15.10
(-0.7)
Yellow: 33.65, 11 mitigation (+5)
(-0.03)
Red: 51.35, 1 mitigation
(+0.73)
Q1 2051
14.75 Blue Zone
(-0.35)
33.81 Yellow Zone, 18 mitigation (+7)
(+0.16)
51.54 Red Zone, 8 mitigation (+7)
(+0.19)
Q2 2051 (Numbers were adjusted slightly to fix minor errors.)
14.86 Blue Zone
(+0.11)
33.57 Yellow Zone, 28 mitigation (+10)
(-0.24)
51.68 Red Zone, 18 mitigation (+10)
(+0.14)
Q3 2051 (Note: Numbers were adjusted again to fix minor errors, shrinking Red Zone slightly)
14.82 Blue Zone
(-0.04)
33.59 Yellow Zone, 29 mitigation (+1)
(+0.02)
51.59 Red Zone, 19 mitigation (+1)
(-0.09)
Q4 2051
14.13 Blue Zone
(-0.69)
33.31 Yellow Zone, 29 mitigation
(-0.28)
52.56 Red Zone, 19 mitigation
(+0.97)
@Ithillid Going back to this post, it appears for this roll you forgot to subtract the Red Zone mitigation from the roll. And no one noticed at the time. *shrug* Note that I haven't been double-checking all the math; I only noticed this one because losing 97 points should be impossible with 19 mitigation.
Q1 2051
14.20 Blue Zone
(+0.07)
32.95 Yellow Zone, 35 mitigation (+6)
(-0.36)
52.85 Red Zone, 20 mitigation (+1)
(+0.29)
Q2 2052
14.41 Blue Zone
(+0.21)
32.00 Yellow Zone, 36 mitigation (+1)
(-0.95)
53.59 Red Zone, 20 mitigation
(+0.74)
Q3 2052
14.20 Blue Zone
(-0.21)
32.12 Yellow Zone 46 mitigation (+10)
(+0.12)
53.68 Red Zone 20 mitigation
(+0.09)
Overall:
Blue: 17.35% to 14.20%, -3.15% total.
Yellow: 32.62% to 32.12%, -0.5% total.
Red: 50.03% to 53.68%, +3.65% total.
This really would fit better on a spreadsheet, but I felt like doing it quickly so there's that. Also note that I didn't double check my math here, so it might have some errors.
- Location
- The Underdark
I have mentioned this elsewhere I think, but you are stabilizing about two turns earlier, and have lost about 1 percent less than I was expecting you to. Mostly because of the Qatari Loyalists which I was not really expecting you to take, and the massive ignore everything else investments you made into Tiberium.