Magical Girl Quest - The Fire That Burns

I was also amazed by how calmly people too near-death and literal death. Crystal is a much better writer than I am, but I try.
I was planning on having a cool-down arc, starting after this too, it was going a bit high-tempo for too long.
Making people care about near death requires a few elements in common(you don't need all, but each one short undermines it):
-It needs buildup.
--The character must be more than a player extension. This is true.
--The death/near death must be anticipated. This is not true.
--The players must have struggled against it as best as they could manage to limited success on a previous update(i.e the event itself should be the product of 3-5 updates).
--Misinformation is a fine art

-The players must be focused on the drama itself. Diversions strongly undermine it.
--The death must be close fought. A closet troll ambush would be problematic, though the Jurassic Park T-Rex chase would be appropriate. There must be some means of struggling against death.
--It's most effective if this is just the cumulative outcome of the players' actions.
--It falls flat if it was due to one terrible dice roll, but this effect is negated if it was a series of bad/terrible dice rolls leading to it.
--It must never be from OOC actions. Being a result of blind chained commands makes it funny/absurd instead.
--It must never be from misinterpreted votes. This means nobody is even looking at the death, everyone would be yelling for a do-over.
--It must never be from strongly divisive votes. This means the players are busy screaming at each other instead for "I told you so". This might not apply if you believe We Stand In Salt is a good model for drama :p
--It must not have been used before in recent memory. The first is painful, the second is tiring and the third is funny.

Basically what I've gathered across basically all the quests on SV/SB.
If you land all the points, it's pretty much always going to hurt.
 
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I wonder how often I mentioned it, but Cerys already has it. Means she can not lose it only because our grace period is ending, we just need to conciously unlock it.

The same could be said of your shield spell then:

You barely have the chance to react when the storm grows even stronger. You desperately loose your magic as wide as you can, unlocking every lock you had placed on it, your body glowing like a star in the near pitch black of the storm. You feel stray bolts of lightning deflect off of it as you slowly stomp forwards, every step sends a boot sinking into the ground and you drag your sword behind you as you go. The fucking bird screeches at you, a horrible sound that echoes with thunder, as you close.

Cerys already used magic to make a defense, quite an effective one seeing how it deflected lightning, and unlike with the melee attack she actually knows she did this, and did so intentionally.

I am not sure however that a spell nobody, not even herself, knows she managed is as likely to not be hit by the end of the time period as with something she already has done and knows she has done.

If it is based on belief than not even she knows she can do it, and without having tried it before the gate closes it might be like a beginner shooting a bulleye with a bow and arrow from a hundred yards:

An accident and beginners luck the first time, but a large amount of trial and error to actually intentionally do so.

I had wrote the above before going to work, was going to write a a few more things that are… no longer relevant now that the update happened.

Such is the life of being asked to do things when you are in the middle of typing a comment and then having to leave for work after :V.

Though the parts that were relevant to the update that I probably should have mentioned before going to bed last night, but it was 1:30 AM when the plan was posted and I didn't quite feel up to making a post. Gambled that I would have time to say it in the morning and failed :V.

Oh well.


That said now that the update is over and that particular melee buff is something we have to discover carefully over time, it now means we should try to find a different melee buff, and hence actually strengthens my point of trying to get a melee buff so I am not complaining :V


As for the update itself:

In retrospect at least part of this is my fault because I remembered that Plasma Sphere counted as Physical damage against the Blood Willows and forgot that Thermal Spear counted as magical against them. If I remembered that (or checked the chapter again :V), it probably would have affected Naron's plan because I gave the impression of "our normal spells are unlikely to work" when knowing we have at least one ranged option would have changed things. By only remembering Plasma Sphere (I guess because that was the stranger of the two a spell that doesn't deal magical damage, rather than a spell that does), I kind of gave the wrong impression.

My bad, unintentional misinformation on my part.

On the other side, not even slightly upset with the way the update went.

Probably because I am more interested in the narrative than the game. I'll forgive a lot game play wise as long as I think something is narratively satisfying. I mean I actually liked the result of the other big vote mishap with setting the house on fire near the beginning of the quest, so I am kind of the odd one out sometimes :V.

Though yeah, as a game some people had solid criticism that is more in depth than I would offer anyway, though there was unsurprisingly a large amount of salt going on in thread :V.

Take heart though, strong reactions mean that what you write is meaningful enough to people to actually cause emotion. If a person doesn't actually care about something they wouldn't waste so much time on it.

Also guys look on the bright side, this plan was very much made to lessen the danger the enforcers would be in while putting us in the line of fire.

It is definitely something that they are going to remember, the 13 year old willing to go through with that to ensure their safety.

Our likability with the average enforcer is only increasing.

Also narratively this type of result ties in nicely with our trauma of having had an enforcer die on both missions we had back up on.

Hence here Cerys picks a plan that puts all of the danger on us this time so it doesn't happen again. Maybe intentionally so, maybe subconsciously so.

With expected results (especially when you have little to no intel on the enemy).

Of course that isn't why the players made that plan, but it sure ties in to the narrative, to give what I consider a satisfyingly result.

I also wouldn't be surprised if people in the story actually came to that conclusion, which could be… interesting.
 
On the other side, not even slightly upset with the way the update went.

Probably because I am more interested in the narrative than the game. I'll forgive a lot game play wise as long as I think something is narratively satisfying. I mean I actually liked the result of the other big vote mishap with setting the house on fire near the beginning of the quest, so I am kind of the odd one out sometimes :V.

Though yeah, as a game some people had solid criticism that is more in depth than I would offer anyway, though there was unsurprisingly a large amount of salt going on in thread :V.

Take heart though, strong reactions mean that what you write is meaningful enough to people to actually cause emotion. If a person doesn't actually care about something they wouldn't waste so much time on it.

Also guys look on the bright side, this plan was very much made to lessen the danger the enforcers would be in while putting us in the line of fire.

It is definitely something that they are going to remember, the 13 year old willing to go through with that to ensure their safety.

Our likability with the average enforcer is only increasing.

Also narratively this type of result ties in nicely with our trauma of having had an enforcer die on both missions we had back up on.

Hence here Cerys picks a plan that puts all of the danger on us this time so it doesn't happen again. Maybe intentionally so, maybe subconsciously so.

With expected results (especially when you have little to no intel on the enemy).

Of course that isn't why the players made that plan, but it sure ties in to the narrative, to give what I consider a satisfyingly result.

I also wouldn't be surprised if people in the story actually came to that conclusion, which could be… interesting.

While becoming self-sacrificing for the enforcers due to guilt of having them die on her could justify her going ahead with the plan of using herself as bait despite being seriously injured, it's really not a direction I want to take Cerys's character. I really like the differences Cerys has in comparison to most other magic girls and would be disappointed if she became particularly self-sacrificing for people other than Una. I'd rather she just wasn't thinking completely straight after that experiment mishap and not be as considerate of collateral damage in the future if there's a lack of good intel.
 
Cerys has powers that really don't seem to play well with those who are not magical girls In close proximity. I guess we really need to begin training for the following:

1. The use of norms as scouts and artillery because every time we have immediate support in the form of non-magical girls, things go badly.
2. Training with our new battle sister
3. Something to learn to counter act things getting in close and burning through effects. (If we could use our beginning/end to create a sphere of effect around us that stripped (END) special effects and enforced (BEGINNING) our law on to the space around us (domain or something).
4. Paying attention to our perceptions and senses. Keeping focus on Sixth sense, danger sense, thermosense, conceptual sense, and the bond between MGs towards each other and Gaia.

Rukia, you have done an excellent job of writing so far, I think that the gap between the expections and plans of the readers and writersjust sometimes flare up. Maybe a pause in the update can happen when vital information or unexpected events occur, or there is a pause in combat.
 
Well, Cerys is also supposed to have some level of street smarts / common sense (for what it's worth when it comes to magic) and it can (as evidenced by the past 'how much detail') come into conflict with what the Player Base things she should auto-do without input, like say idk wait a turn or two to heal up before heading back in? :V

So I suggest that perhaps her innate/previous experience be shown via some commentary on say, the top 3 plans half way before closing the vote or something. Like "I don't feel comfortable going down tight corridors with this sword, I'm not sure I can swing it properly in those areas... is there another way?" or "I don't have a good idea on how to fight intangible enemies... I wonder if my sword can even hit them let alone block attacks... I guess I can try?".

Stuff like that can help us players get a good idea on how Cerys thinks things might play out along with letting you the GM put in some more subtle/obvious hints at flat out bad ideas like for a hypothetical fight in an ammo dump where one of the top three plans is to go storming in with fire+allies, "There's no way I can keep my allies safe from any explosions if I use fire inside this huge ammo dump, I control temperature not explosions. I really need to come up with a better idea for this...".
 
While becoming self-sacrificing for the enforcers due to guilt of having them die on her could justify her going ahead with the plan of using herself as bait despite being seriously injured, it's really not a direction I want to take Cerys's character. I really like the differences Cerys has in comparison to most other magic girls and would be disappointed if she became particularly self-sacrificing for people other than Una. I'd rather she just wasn't thinking completely straight after that experiment mishap and not be as considerate of collateral damage in the future if there's a lack of good intel.

On the other hand, both of the times someone died, clearly effected her. She kind of repressed it but that is not the same as being unfazed. I am not talking as if it is a particularly healthy mentality, but the result of Trauma from a thirteen year old seeing two people die gruesomely.

Also it is not like I think Cerys cares about the average person dying around her, but an ally dying against a foe that she is fighting, against a person or enemy she is there to fight? When them not being there could have ended in her death?

That is different. Not knowing them actually might even strike harder here then having known them and having been neutral to them.

Because now that person has died beside you and you didn't have the courtesy to even know their name.

Also Una would always be first for Cerys, and it is not like she would have actually consciously thought that she would have been brought to the edge of death here.

Cerys is currently strong enough to survive both instances that the enforcers died in the past to, it wouldn't be "self-sacrificing to the point of near death" but " Plan so that I can take hits, because I can handle it unlike the enforcers and I don't want to see allies die pointlessly" perhaps even "I don't trust them to not die".

From her knowledge the enemies she faced were the top 10-5% in the world and even the one that she had trouble against (the thunderbird) would not have done much to her now since its spell would have failed against her with A&O up.

While she knows dying is a possibility, it is not like she thought it likely going into this fight.

Ultimately though it would be largely subconscious based on trauma that hasn't been resolved and that is interesting.

That has a narrative arc where the root of the issue can be explored and can get really into developing who Cerys is.

Self sacrificing for no reason but because it is "right" or "justice" or "because responsibility" is boring.

Also everything is for Una. Cerys is fighting these monsters specifically because they threaten the world and the world has Una in it.

That narrative arc, that down right obsession, that overwhelming love, isn't going away any time soon.

That doesn't mean that Cerys can't grow, or change in other ways, and this is just one way that I see the possibility of interesting change.

Characters that are static are boring :V

(edit 3: In which the post is edited higher up that edit 1 but chronologically later)

Not that I mean to imply that you intend for Cerys to be static, which I just realized it could be read that way.

edit:

Heck if it does become a narrative arc it could very well be in the vain of "accepting the possibility of ally death", "overcoming guilt", and "dealing with death healthily" rather than falling deeper into unhealthy mindsets :V

edit 2: to clarify:

"Self sacrificing for no reason but because it is "right" or "justice" or "because responsibility" is boring."

Isn't meant to mean being self sacrificing because it is "right" or "justice" or "because responsibility" is always boring or anything of the sort.

What is important is what actions and what thoughts lead to those conclusions, being 2-dimensional in this is what makes things boring.
 
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On a less related note, I'm wondering if the pest extermination missions are still going to be available in England.

If we can, we may want to alternate between spending a day running exterminations and a day training with Daiyu, rather than focusing on one or the other to exclusion.
 
On a less related note, I'm wondering if the pest extermination missions are still going to be available in England.

If we can, we may want to alternate between spending a day running exterminations and a day training with Daiyu, rather than focusing on one or the other to exclusion.

I think extermination would be a good training opportunity for Daiyu, which is why I suggest training with her until she's combat ready and do the exterminations with her. She needs the XP.
 
Say is army training have a similar effect in training with Enforcers in teamwork or is more learning army tactics and adapting it to supernatural fighting thus getting added bonus depending on the situation if our plan does not survive contact with the enemy?
Was hoping that army training allow us to respond better to ambushes or situational awareness and so on automatically depending on dice.

As great training with Daiyu is we should send her with the enforcers for Large Scale Eradication than having us tagging along since it would be overkill and ineffective use of time.
 
I'm thinking of starting a list of "Common Sense for Cerys". We'll just assume any part of this common sense list is applied to any future vote unless specifically overrode by the vote. Could cut time spent on paranoia.

Please do that, it would be really helpful.

I literally told Naron not to do it, but...
(It partly is my fault)
Uh... you did?
Sorry, I am dense and often do not pick up on anything but "Do not do that".

I wasn't aware that it was that bad, I thought people were maybe a little confused over some matters, but not this much. (I will clarify this soon, hopefully)
Huh... weird, I do remember mentioning this at least once.
Maybe it was too long ago? Hrm...

I like that last update, though... thinking back, I guess my main problem was that instead of just dying and getting another shot, it seemed as if Cerys just passed out and this would have major repercussions on what follows.
What makes CW's difficulty work is that once the players die, they have better knowledge about the situation and can try again at once... while here, we basically did not get that.

For the future, maybe do not stop an update at a point where it looks as terrible as that; if you had merged the follow-up with it, I would probably not have complained at all... because that was pretty epic counted together.
Oh... you basically just gave us an arbitrary vote-prompt in the middle of the fight, then talked about how you would not do that ever.


So yeah I do definitely think we should put levels into our durability skills if we plan to keep soloing. Also we should spend more time training HSC and Flight since those are our best dodging tools.

Also shields. It seems we can tear apart hostile spells before they reach us fairly easily but we should work on a way of blocking physical attacks too.

Aside from those, seems we good mostly?
I am done with experimenting, sorry. The only ideas I had left were apparently all tied to conceptual stuff without me ever realising. If you have any well-thought out ideas, please implement them.

3. Something to learn to counter act things getting in close and burning through effects. (If we could use our beginning/end to create a sphere of effect around us that stripped (END) special effects and enforced (BEGINNING) our law on to the space around us (domain or something).
As I was told by Rukia, this is all conceptual stuff. Unless we crit it, we get the same backlash as before.



Fun fact for everyone: Halt was also conceptual stuff; but because of the crit, Cerys actually did it instead of writhing on the floor in pain. That was where my misconception came from; it was never apparent to me that this was already conceptual and not just us playing with our Affinities.




Cerys is currently strong enough to survive both instances that the enforcers died in the past to, it wouldn't be "self-sacrificing to the point of near death" but " Plan so that I can take hits, because I can handle it unlike the enforcers and I don't want to see allies die pointlessly" perhaps even "I don't trust them to not die".
...yes, this sums up what I was thinking when making that plan.
Then 450 Base Damage happened... still not sure if that was appropriate.
To make myself clear, I expected a lot of damage, but not this much; something between 200 and 300, which would already be higher than all the other highly dangerous enemies we had before.







Anyway... on to more important things. I really need to know which day it is for the Intel...
Aside from that, no vote prompt on the last update... which means there is another one coming in first.

And before people start burning all of our EXP, let us think about this more clearly.
I do not think we will do things like we tried before again... so I am not sure raising Health is necessary; 500 is already pretty good, we just have to make sure the enemies do not get to us... which we are pretty good at.

So maybe a level in Flight (60 EXP), two in Alpha and Omega (45 + 60 = 105 EXP) and one in Ignition Aura (90 EXP), which would cost 255 and leave us with a little over 300, so we can buy Limitless and Knight's Aria once we can get them.

How does that sound?


Also, here. At least I could get inspiration for an Omake out of this.
 
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Canon Omake: She Watches From The Shadows
Omake: She Watches From The Shadows


The girl had been making good progress; not only did she survive the first while, she managed not to break herself like her... former companion as well. Maybe the error in design was only revealed because it mashed together with the wrong kind of character...

Gaia decided to put this thought elsewhere; this part of the complete conscience that was her was busy watching Cerys. Just a small instance, to stay updated on what happened.

She took note that these creatures hiding in the campsite were plenty nasty, though. Hopefully everything would go well... though it was admirable that the girl tried to go against her nature and not just envelop everything in fire.
Only if she did not try doing dangerous experiments like that... it worked before, but that was more of a stroke of luck. And the observer did not have the resources at hand to give Cerys the push she needed to get over the hindrance.

In short, the girl hurt herself, badly.

That was not good. Not at all.

Gaia grew more concerned as she watched on, saw the first few creatures destroyed... this was not... oh.
There it was, the ambush; one bad angle and... as she perceived time differently, Gaia basically got to watch the end of her most promising girl in slow motion. How the claws struck her... and even when the spirit of Earth wanted to reallocate, to help and stop this... she could not. Her capacities were held up elsewhere, it would take too long.

And then she saw it. Despite the crushing strength of her opponent, despite the fact she should be dead...


Cerys refused.


Not a single ounce of magic aside from what she used to dull the pain... the girl kept herself going with a titanic force of will. She remained alive and even concious despite the pain, then was saved by those with her.

Gaia quieted. For but a single second, all of her activities came to a halt in silent appreciation for the girl she had chosen.
This one was special indeed.

If she had lips, she would smile, a barely felt emotion surging through her. Pride.
This one girl, despite her flaws and mistakes, carried on. She was a child of Gaia just like all the others... and so, so special. This one, she could be proud of. Proud like only a mother could be.

"Carry on, my Knight. Make this your lesson and achieve greatness."
 
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Omake: She Watches From The Shadows


The girl had been making good progress; not only did she survive the first while, she managed not to break herself like her... former companion as well. Maybe the error in design was only revealed because it mashed together with the wrong kind of character...

Gaia decided to put this thought elsewhere; this part of the complete conscience that was her was busy watching Cerys. Just a small instance, to stay updated on what happened.

She took note that these creatures hiding in the campsite were plenty nasty, though. Hopefully everything would go well... though it was admirable that the girl tried to go against her nature and not just envelop everything in fire.
Only if she did not try doing dangerous experiments like that... it worked before, but that was more of a stroke of luck. And the observer did not have the resources at hand to give Cerys the push she needed to get over the hindrance.

In short, the girl hurt herself, badly.

That was not good. Not at all.

Gaia grew more concerned as she watched on, saw the first few creatures destroyed... this was not... oh.
There it was, the ambush; one bad angle and... as she perceived time differently, Gaia basically got to watch the end of her most promising girl in slow motion. How the claws struck her... and even when the spirit of Earth wanted to reallocate, to help and stop this... she could not. Her capacities were held up elsewhere, it would take to long.

And then she saw it. Despite the crushing strength of her opponent, despite the fact she should be dead...


Cerys refused.


Not a single ounce of magic aside from what she used to dull the pain... the girl kept herself going with a titanic force of will. She remained alive and even concious despite the pain, then was saved by those with her.

Gaia quieted. For but a single second, all of her activities came to a halt in silent appreciation for the girl she had chosen.
This one was special indeed.

If she had lips, she would smile, a barely felt emotion surging through her. Pride.
This one girl, despite her flaws and mistakes, carried on. She was a child of Gaia just like all the others... and so, so special. This one, she could be proud of. Proud like only a mother could be.

"Carry on, my Knight. Make this your lesson and achieve greatness."

+20xp

I am sorely tempted to make this Canon.
Yeah, Canon.
 
Uh... you did?
Sorry, I am dense and often do not pick up on anything but "Do not do that".
Don't worry, you're not the only one. I've searched for it yesterday and I couldn't find that warning. :confused:

Fun fact for everyone: Halt was also conceptual stuff; but because of the crit, Cerys actually did it instead of writhing on the floor in pain. That was where my misconception came from; it was never apparent to me that this was already conceptual and not just us playing with our Affinities.
I'm still not quite sure what count as conceptual magic. @Rukia Could you give us a definition of conceptual magic?

I'd still like to obtain a spell that is not powered by our thermal control though. Something like this:
Create a cloud of magic that will disintegrate (i.e. break up into small parts, typically as the result of impact or decay) everything it touches.
Aaaaand nevermind... We can replicate the same result by training A&O. :rolleyes:

So maybe a level in Flight (60 EXP), two in Alpha and Omega (45 + 60 = 105 EXP) and one in Ignition Aura (90 EXP), which would cost 255 and leave us with a little over 300, so we can buy Limitless and Knight's Aria once we can get them.

How does that sound?
(621 - 255 = 366 EXP)
After experimenting with our sword and training with Daiyu, we're going to spend 310 EXP for Limitless and Arias, which mean we will have 56 EXP left.

Sounds reasonable.

[X] EXP Plan: Playing to our strengths
-[X] Flight: lvl 4 -> lvl 5 (60 EXP)
-[X] Alpha and Omega: lvl 3 -> lvl 5 (105 EXP)
-[X] Ignition Aura: lvl 6 -> lvl 7 (90 EXP)
 
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@Rukia Can we write up an EXP Plan for this Update, even though there is no voting to be done?

So... I kind of went to count who got how much EXP of the total a while ago; the numbers are long since outdated and I do not have any intention of counting again... but the fun thing I found is that I so far earned more by myself than the rest of the thread together.
Except for Rukia, but they do not count for obvious reasons.
 
I'm still not quite sure what count as conceptual magic. @Rukia Could you give us a definition of conceptual magic?
Conceptual Magic is enforcing a Concept on the world via magic.
This is different to speaking it, because you are actually intentionally trying to change the world with it.

Any spell you try to cast which enforces [END] on something, is you trying to force a change in the universe with your will verses the universe.
Gaia does not appreciate you doing this in the slightest, though she still shields you from most of the backlash.
[eJNsuEbnipNJD]
@Rukia Can we write up an EXP Plan for this Update, even though there is no voting to be done?
You can.
 
So... with that in mind, we should stop experimenting and start upgrading what we have.

X it in, @Darfkire


[X] EXP Plan: Playing to our strengths
-[X] Flight: lvl 4 -> lvl 5 (60 EXP)
-[X] Alpha and Omega: lvl 3 -> lvl 5 (105 EXP)
-[X] Ignition Aura: lvl 6 -> lvl 7 (90 EXP)
 
As I was told by Rukia, this is all conceptual stuff. Unless we crit it, we get the same backlash as before.



Fun fact for everyone: Halt was also conceptual stuff; but because of the crit, Cerys actually did it instead of writhing on the floor in pain. That was where my misconception came from; it was never apparent to me that this was already conceptual and not just us playing with our Affinities.

Actually that sounds fine due to our recovery. Just make sure to do it somewhere safe, not in the field next time.

We still have safe queued experiments to try.
 
Your Affinities make it easier to create, cast and use spells that involve Beginnings or Ends, but they are directly linked to Concepts which makes them dangerous to play with.
Gaia made your batch without any sort of limitations at all, this applies to you as well.
Daiyu is in the same boat.
 
We should see if we can increase our defences somehow. Maybe something to do with the armor we wear in our transformation? Pump that full of magic like our sword?
 
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