Magical Girl Escalation Taylor (Worm/Nanoha)

Captain Hunt · Sep 17, 2017

[X] Jump in – The Maras are attacking now. Help Fairyland now without waiting for backup.
-[X] Cage Mysterio in: He gets stronger the more hits he takes? There's no point giving him more fuel.
-[X] Use Temporal Sludge to slow him down.
-[X] Coordinate with Fairyland to lock him in; if they could build ice walls, then that makes your job a lot easier.
-[X] Add your own Frost Beam, if it's capable of more than a layer of ice.
-[X] Relay your plans to the incoming reinforcements.

Silently Watches · Sep 17, 2017

Shaseyu said:
...I'm pretty sure at least two of them will go into Recursion field, if we cast one.
So, if worse comes to worse, we can save them... by abandoning normal gangsters and the Privateer in flight-incapable armor.

All three of the Fairyland capes would go into Recursion Field.

landcollector · Sep 17, 2017

[X] Jump in – The Maras are attacking now. Help Fairyland now without waiting for backup.
-[X] Cage Mysterio in: He gets stronger the more hits he takes? There's no point giving him more fuel.
-[X] Use Temporal Sludge to slow him down.
-[X] Coordinate with Fairyland to lock him in; if they could build ice walls, then that makes your job a lot easier.
-[X] Add your own Frost Beam, if it's capable of more than a layer of ice.
-[X] Relay your plans to the incoming reinforcements.

I am on board with this idea.

Shaseyu · Sep 17, 2017

Faraway-R said:
---[X] Coordinate with Fairyland to lock him in; if they could build ice walls, then that makes your job a lot easier.

landcollector said:
-[X] Coordinate with Fairyland to lock him in; if they could build ice walls, then that makes your job a lot easier.

Can someone explain me where that came from?
As far as I understand, noone from Fairyland has cryokinesis.
Or do you want princesses and their gangsters do it manually from the ice provided by Frost Beam?

edale · Sep 17, 2017

Wargamer08 said:
Entrapment is what we did and it's usually just as illegal.

We gave a piece of misinformation to an ally. An enemy intercepted that misinformation and attacked during Truce. We defended ourselves. Not even close to entrapment.

Archeo Lumiere said:
... so the show "To Catch a Predator" is illegal?

Only if the perp asks if the person they're going to meet is a cop, and the cop answers "no." In some states this needs to be done 3 times to count as entrapment.

Though given it's a reporter and not a cop, it's not exactly entrapment either way.

Silently Watches said:
The Privateers are made up of former dockworkers. Manual laborers, particularly as they seemed to do odd jobs around Brockton Bay. This sort of people generally – generally – are not the cream of the crop intellectually. Not mentally deficient, but likely of average intelligence at best.* The kind of people who tend not to understand or care about intricate or delicate situations such as the politics of keeping superpowered gangs from going to war in the streets.

Or the type to realize that Everyone in BB was a known quantity, they knew what to expect as far as reactions went.

Here almost everyone's an unknown.

It's not the strongest cape that kills you, it's the one whose power you don't know.

Always Late said:
What's next, the pyroknetic that makes the human torch look like a wet match?

Did.... did you just invite Burnscar to town?

SlickRCBD said:
P.S. I still think we should be scanning all our friends, even the capes like Vista and even Miss Militia.

I still can't believe we didn't scan Vista for free when we had the chance.

Always Late said:
The usefulness of magic to certain kinds of capes is in the FAQ.

You mean the part about teaching a cape magic being the main reason @Silently Watches made deviceless mages a thing in this quest?

And despite this VERY obvious hint that it would be a good idea, no one seems to think magic could possibly help any capes, past the part of killing their connection to their Shard (as we could have done with Purity).

Alayne · Sep 17, 2017

[X] Jump in – The Maras are attacking now. Help Fairyland now without waiting for backup.
-[X] Cage Mysterio in: He gets stronger the more hits he takes? There's no point giving him more fuel.
-[X] Use Temporal Sludge to slow him down.
-[X] Coordinate with Fairyland to lock him in; if they could build ice walls, then that makes your job a lot easier.
-[X] Add your own Frost Beam, if it's capable of more than a layer of ice.
-[X] Relay your plans to the incoming reinforcements.

landcollector · Sep 17, 2017

edale said:
And despite this VERY obvious hint that it would be a good idea, no one seems to think magic could possibly help any capes, past the part of killing their connection to their Shard (as we could have done with Purity).

Unless the cape miraculously has a B or higher rank core (IIRC), teaching them deviceless magic isn't really worth the time.

veekie · Sep 17, 2017

landcollector said:
Unless the cape miraculously has a B or higher rank core (IIRC), teaching them deviceless magic isn't really worth the time.

Which is why we scan to find out if they have any worth training. It costs nothing. We opted to get nothing rather than a small chance of something.

Racoras · Sep 17, 2017

Seriously, the vote seems good enough (attack now, use temporal sludge + frost beam, warn reinforcements about pseudo-lung Brute...worded a bit odd maybe) but where is the bit about Fairyland making ice walls coming from? Did they get confused for Winter Hill by the first poster of that plan? Pretty sure "Snow" White can't actually make snow

Or is it meant to be glass/crystal walls from Cinderalla? Because if she can make constructs besides "exploding ball" with glass, thats a great plan. Caltrop field or trapping layers both. Just....its not what current vote says.

landcollector · Sep 17, 2017

veekie said:
Which is why we scan to find out if they have any worth training. It costs nothing. We opted to get nothing rather than a small chance of something.

I didn't talk about the missed opportunities, so I think this is directed at the wrong person.

Always Late · Sep 17, 2017

edale said:
Did.... did you just invite Burnscar to town?

The S9 is dead.

edale said:
You mean the part about teaching a cape magic being the main reason @Silently Watches made deviceless mages a thing in this quest?

And despite this VERY obvious hint that it would be a good idea, no one seems to think magic could possibly help any capes, past the part of killing their connection to their Shard (as we could have done with Purity).

landcollector said:
Unless the cape miraculously has a B or higher rank core (IIRC), teaching them deviceless magic isn't really worth the time.

Land' not wrong.
@edale, to remind you of the key details from the linked post:

Silently Watches said:
D-rank: 45% of the population (1-45 on d100)
C-rank: 35% of the population (46-80)
B-rank: 10% of the population (81-90)
A-rank: 5% of the population (91-95)
AA-rank: 3% of the population (96-98)
AAA-rank: 2% of the population (99-100)
S+-rank: Template mages and certain canon Nanoha characters only

Silently Watches said:
If you teach them magic without a Device, they get half a spell for each, where half a spell counts as a substantially less powerful variant, and the half gets counted last (i.e., D- or C-rank gets 1 spell at half or full power respectively, B gets 1 at full power and 1 at half power, A gets 2 at full power, etc.). Barrier Jacket/Knight Armor doesn't count against spell count for Device mages but does count against spell count for non-Device mages.

Silently Watches said:
Flight is only available to those of B-rank and above.

This idea of deviceless mages being good has been... misrepresentative.

Shaseyu · Sep 17, 2017

Always Late said:
This idea of deviceless mages being good has been... misrepresentative.

Information about their Linker Core status is still useful.
Who knows, maybe there is Nanoha-level freak of nature amongst our friends. Dice gods can be benevolent.

Okay, new plan, that is basically reworded old plan, because I really don't get some parts of old plan.

[X] Jump in – The Maras are attacking now. Help Fairyland now without waiting for backup.
-[X] Warn Privateers that we're dealing with Brute that gets stronger up the more hits he take. They need some serious firepower if they want to be useful.
--[X] Tell Fairyland to stop attack, they only help him.
-[X] Use Frost Beam on him.
--[X] If ice holds, call PRT. You have a gift for them.
--[X] If not, use Temporal Sludge and Frost Beam to slow him down, Fairyland should retreat.

Always Late · Sep 17, 2017

Shaseyu said:
Dice gods can be benevolent.

You sure you're on SV buddy? The local knuckle bone deities are more twisted than the Changer of Ways.

landcollector · Sep 17, 2017

Shaseyu said:
Who knows, maybe there is Nanoha-level freak of nature amongst our friends

Highly doubtful.

Shaseyu said:
Dice gods can be benevolent.

Mostly to other people, though, not us.

edale · Sep 17, 2017

landcollector said:
Unless the cape miraculously has a B or higher rank core (IIRC), teaching them deviceless magic isn't really worth the time.

Always Late said:
This idea of deviceless mages being good has been... misrepresentative.

And you're all not even considering that it's not about raw power, it's about utility and versatility.

Yes, you may only be able to use one spell, and yes, your parahuman power may be slightly weakened while you use that spell... But that spell could mean the difference between life and death for you or someone around you.

Take a hypothetical Vista with a C-ranked core for example (possibly even D-ranked, can't recall if D-rank gets a spell or not):

Vista gets 1 spell, learns flare shooter (or whatever the non-elemental variant is, assuming she doesn't have a rare talent to give it an element).

When shooting with the spell, her ability to warp space is halved.

She can still shoot around corners, and 'curve the bullet', giving her real viable distance options.

It's not that it's being misrepresented, it's that you're not willing to even try; even when it cost nothing, not even a time slot.

And seriously, knowledge is power.; willful ignorance on the other hand...

Always Late · Sep 17, 2017

edale said:
Take a hypothetical Vista with a C-ranked core for example (possibly even D-ranked, can't recall if D-rank gets a spell or not):

... I just told you. I just quoted the information for you. For someone who's trying to make the two people who actually remember the QM's quotes look like idiots, you are doing an especially shitty job of it. Do yourself a favor and quit while you're behind.

LancerisDead · Sep 17, 2017

Shaseyu said:
Can someone explain me where that came from?
As far as I understand, noone from Fairyland has cryokinesis.
Or do you want princesses and their gangsters do it manually from the ice provided by Frost Beam?

Racoras said:
Seriously, the vote seems good enough (attack now, use temporal sludge + frost beam, warn reinforcements about pseudo-lung Brute...worded a bit odd maybe) but where is the bit about Fairyland making ice walls coming from? Did they get confused for Winter Hill by the first poster of that plan? Pretty sure "Snow" White can't actually make snow

Or is it meant to be glass/crystal walls from Cinderalla? Because if she can make constructs besides "exploding ball" with glass, thats a great plan. Caltrop field or trapping layers both. Just....its not what current vote says.

Silently Watches said:
The villainess in blue throws something small and glittery, and the glass ball shatters as soon as it hits the Brute. That would be Cinderella, then. The shards produced by the explosion instantly grow again, this time into spikes four feet long if they're an inch, but the tips of these glass lances snap off instead of poking through his skin.

I honestly didn't realize that it was glass rather than ice.

Thankfully, it works just as fine. I can imagine those spike could be repurposed without too much difficulty.

Hopefully.

tyaty1 · Sep 17, 2017

Casting without Device is less useful in combat, than parahuman powers. Nothing stops Vista from learning magic(if she has Linker Core), but it wont help her in serious combat.

edale · Sep 17, 2017

Always Late said:
... I just told you. I just quoted the information for you. For someone who's trying to make the two people who actually remember the QM's quotes look like idiots, you are doing an especially shitty job of it. Do yourself a favor and quit while you're behind.

Wow, I miss one tiny part of one of your quotes (that still doesn't invalidate the statement I mentioned that in), and you immediately jump on that... Conveniently neglecting the entire rest of my post in your own attempt to make me look like an idiot (and that's the willful ignorance).

And nothing in those quotes goes against what I said in my post. Just becasue B-rank is where you gain flight doesn't mean that that's the first useful rank.

Maybe if you actually had an answer to any of the points I raised I'd listen to you, but alas, you've yet to use a single piece of logic in any of your arguments on the topic.

tyaty1 said:
Casting without Device is less useful in combat, than parahuman powers. Nothing stops Vista from learning magic(if she has Linker Core), but it wont help her in serious combat.

Where are you getting this misinformation?

We have already had one case where a deviceless mage turned the tide of a battle against us (Dragonslayers 1st confrontation).

landcollector · Sep 17, 2017

edale said:
Where are you getting this misinformation?

What proof do you have that you aren't the one spreading misinformation? For example:

edale said:
When shooting with the spell, her ability to warp space is halved.

Where did you get the idea that the parahuman power is weakened when using deviceless magic? Nothing in the post that Always quoted says anything of the sort.

edale · Sep 17, 2017

landcollector said:
What proof do you have that you aren't the one spreading misinformation? For example:

Where did you get the idea that the parahuman power is weakened when using deviceless magic? Nothing in the post that Always quoted says anything of the sort.

@Silently Watches has said in the past that a parahuman using magic without a device would have their use of their parahuman ability reduced while casting. It was during all the talk of scanning Vista for a linker core when it first happened.

*edit- I have no idea why that tag didn't work...

landcollector · Sep 17, 2017

edale said:
@Silently Watches has said in the past that a parahuman using magic without a device would have their use of their parahuman ability reduced while casting. It was during all the talk of scanning Vista for a linker core when it first happened.

Can you link to it? If so, even more reason imo to not hamper a parahuman's power with deviceless magic if their Linker Core is a D or C rank one. Weakening a Shaker 9 power for 1 half- or full-power spell is an unacceptable trade-off.

edale · Sep 17, 2017

landcollector said:
Can you link to it? If so, even more reason imo to not hamper a parahuman's power with deviceless magic if their Linker Core is a D or C rank one. Weakening a Shaker 9 power for 1 half- or full-power spell is an unacceptable trade-off.

I tried to find it a bit before posting, and just spent another 5 min digging through the search function, but can't remember enough of how it was worded to find the post...

Scope · Sep 17, 2017

edale said:
@Silently Watches has said in the past that a parahuman using magic without a device would have their use of their parahuman ability reduced while casting. It was during all the talk of scanning Vista for a linker core when it first happened.

*edit- I have no idea why that tag didn't work...

IIRC, depending on the power, certain tricks that need attention can't be used to their full potential because they are using said attention to run calculations for spells. It varies with parahumans.

Twisting space like a pretzel requires a certain amount of concentration. Merely stretching or shrinking distance does not, and using other types as an example, a 'shoot and done' type blaster or a brute has no such disadvantage.

edale · Sep 17, 2017

Found it:

Silently Watches said:
It is not that she CAN'T use her power, but that she won't be able to give it her full focus. Intricate tricks, such as pinching a building in half to drop it on someone, would be beyond her capabilities while she was casting. Shrinking or stretching the distance between herself and somewhere else could still be done. And there's still a wide range of other tricks in between that may or may not be effected by her splitting her attention that would have to be approached on a case-by-case basis.

landcollector said:
Can you link to it? If so, even more reason imo to not hamper a parahuman's power with deviceless magic if their Linker Core is a D or C rank one. Weakening a Shaker 9 power for 1 half- or full-power spell is an unacceptable trade-off.

Her parahuman ability is only weakened while she's casting. Full strength otherwise.

And I used 1/2 as an arbitrary number to show that despite being weakened somewhat, she can still use her powers while casting.

And still, all this arguing against, without even considering the possibility that you might not be right. The ONLY way we'll know for sure how useful it will be is to actually train a parahuman to use magic without a device. (The adepts come to mind)

And for the record, ALL of this is OOC knowledge, we have no reason to think that magic affects parahuman power negatively at all IC.

Magical Girl Escalation Taylor (Worm/Nanoha)

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