- Pronouns
- They/Them
That would really suck. The last thing I'd want is for her, and by extension the Velyarions, more intertwined with that arrogant prick. I second the Rhea and Leana bitch-sesh idea.
The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest
- Pronouns
- Reader
Sure, but we probably won't have as much in common with him as Laena.
Yes, no one can better sell the woes of marriage to Daemon than his ex wife, the first ex wife to royalty since the conquest.
- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
I mean, technically, the marriage was not divorced but annulled - i.e., it officially never happened, because it wasn't consummated. So technically Rhea is not his ex-wife
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
[X] Say Your Goodbyes and Return to King's Landing
I love Laena, I truly do, but we're in AP hell for at least the next turn, and we don't know how long "a while" is. Without assurances either that we can fit in a conversation or action with her next turn, or that "a while" means at least two turns, I'd really rather not waste her time.
I love Laena, I truly do, but we're in AP hell for at least the next turn, and we don't know how long "a while" is. Without assurances either that we can fit in a conversation or action with her next turn, or that "a while" means at least two turns, I'd really rather not waste her time.
- Pronouns
- Reader
Based on the discussion thus far I get the feeling people have intensions to make time. We have afterall, finished our obligations for the year training wise, the marriage is dealt with, other than speaking with Gawain and otto, we've not much to prioritise.
I want my husband to spend more time with me
and our future children.
Its funny because the one thing that has consistently stood out in the negotiations is how much Rhaenyra cares about here yet unborn children.
- Location
- New York
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Ask Laena to Stay in King's Landing a while longer
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's pretty clear they would. One, without an enemy to their south, none of the Stormlanders can expand their borders at all outside of internal squabbles (that don't really seem to happen in the 7 kingdoms just like Houses never really change). Additionally they are losing the lands they have gained to their long time enemy while watching the Reach (sans now House Peake) regain lands lost. Its a completely clear sign of favoritism from the crown to the Reach and against the interests of the Stormlands.
Interestingly enough though I'm not sure where this actually will put the Stormlands long term. Probably Daemon's faction. We're going to have to do quite a bit to un-sour this relationship with us, if we even want to attempt it instead of trying to empower ourselves elsewhere. Though letting that problem fester also has its risks. Doesn't help that their heir is illiterate, sexists, and likely still nursing the injury we gave him so, yeah rough.
- Location
- New York
- Pronouns
- He/Him
On the bright side, lowkey provoking our worst internal enemies into rebellion upon Rhenyras coronation gives us an excuse to rip them and replace them with our loyalists, while prosecuting a successful war will also buff her credentials.
We just want to make sure they're weak enough to be defeated and foolish enough to rebel anyway. Daemon can probably gather Baratheon (Stormlands) and Peake to his side at minimum, and possibly some defecting Reach houses.
We theoretically have Dorne, the Crownlands, and Vale solidly on side (probably some rebels in the Vale), but the Riverlands, North, Westerlands, and Iron Islands are all much murkier. The Reach is perhaps the most divided, if we get Otto on board.
We're probably losing the II, though possibly to neutrality instead of Daemon - but we don't necessarily want them when having them as enemies could further secure the Westerlands and Johanna's budding faction - though they'll always be more loyal to a potential Westerlimg heir than Rhaenyra.
The Riverlands and North we have our ins with the Strongs and the Manderlys, two of the strongest bannermen in each province. Those two kingdoms I think are our best bet for expanding Rhanerys influence to really solidify her faction, if we can find levers to maneuver them.
We just want to make sure they're weak enough to be defeated and foolish enough to rebel anyway. Daemon can probably gather Baratheon (Stormlands) and Peake to his side at minimum, and possibly some defecting Reach houses.
We theoretically have Dorne, the Crownlands, and Vale solidly on side (probably some rebels in the Vale), but the Riverlands, North, Westerlands, and Iron Islands are all much murkier. The Reach is perhaps the most divided, if we get Otto on board.
We're probably losing the II, though possibly to neutrality instead of Daemon - but we don't necessarily want them when having them as enemies could further secure the Westerlands and Johanna's budding faction - though they'll always be more loyal to a potential Westerlimg heir than Rhaenyra.
The Riverlands and North we have our ins with the Strongs and the Manderlys, two of the strongest bannermen in each province. Those two kingdoms I think are our best bet for expanding Rhanerys influence to really solidify her faction, if we can find levers to maneuver them.
- Pronouns
- Reader
I'm pretty sure the north is distinctly "Our oaths will be kept" on the matter of succession. Afterall, winter is coming.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Crownlands I'd actually expect to see divided up between the various factions, and exactly how those groups split will be very individualistic to the proper details of whom various groups think are in their best interests.
Vale and Dorne should be aligned with us, both with some houses maybe leaning neutral instead of against (assuming we don't harm our Vale relationship or really flub in Dorne). North likely will either be aligned with us or Neutral, especially depending on exactly how we approach their coming Succession crisis.
Riverlands is up in the air especially with however Larys plays the game of whispers because a less kin-slaying approach is a boon to our Riverlands interests, while the other is less predictable.
Iron Islands I expect are just going to be neutral, and raid others during the war, though they may be a really potent group to direct their raiding when the Westerlands side with the Queen's future son.
Westerlands will side with the Queen's future son, but should also be anti-Daemon in most futures, having them playing the Stormlands allegiance game in direct influence fights with Daemon would likely be to our benefit.
Reach will be divided regardless of things though the more on side we can have them generally the better.
Stormlands are likely not worth the effort and concessions to turn them, but completely ignoring them isn't likely a great strategy either.
The Velaryons are powerful wild cards, we expect that they would likely lean Daemon currently, but they could end up neutral, or even swap to what is most likely to succeed. This relationship will be very dynamic especially as we continue to forge our relationship with other ambitious power players about this game of thrones. (I had to do it I'm sorry)
- Location
- New York
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The North is about to enter a succession crisis when the Lord dies and his brother attempts to take over from his son. We had the opportunity advise Rhea to marry a supporter of one or the other and chose to stay out of it, which I regret. Cregan supported Rhaenyra in canon, sure, but he only came at the very end to settle things at the conclusion.
I'd much rather take an opportunity to back him in the crisis to really solidify Stark-Targ alliance. Not too overtly of course, we don't want to make him look like a puppet of the crown to his vassals.
I'd much rather take an opportunity to back him in the crisis to really solidify Stark-Targ alliance. Not too overtly of course, we don't want to make him look like a puppet of the crown to his vassals.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
From my perspective, at the time at least the majority seemed like we were interested in supporting the Cregan side of the argument when the time actually came up. We just didn't want to set up Rhea in a relationship she wasn't seemingly enthused by and the "Cregan support" option was more or less the weakest in terms of proper alliance for her/us while the strongest one would've been with the would be usurpers and thus likely locking us in against Cregan.
- Location
- Spain
I don't think that is needed, going by the Andal succession laws Laena is already the heir of his brother, at least until Laneor sires a heir... And knowing Laenor I think everyone in the House Velaryon assumes that the Driftwood Throne will pass down through Laena's children...
My preferred option was Harwin Strong, mostly because he is the only one we have seen in the show, and I quite liked what I saw... A hunk of a man who was a genuinely nice guy who loved Nyra and his kids with all his heart (besides that Nyra and Harwin's genes go together like peanut butter and jelly, and that is pretty good considering how often Targaryn end up as cruel fuck ups) ...
But honestly, Qooren is pretty awesome and has grown on me quite a bit, so I am pretty glad that he has won...
Yeah, very much so...
You can say many things about Rhaenyra, but something that is completely undeniable is that she was a loving and devoted mother who raised all of her children very well...
Well, the idea is to go to Dragonstone in turn 17, I am pretty sure we can go invite Laena and have a good time with them all.
The problem with the North is not about loyalty, it is about logistics... It takes a long time to mobilise their troops, and by the time they have gathered a host, it could be too late as it was in canon, but that doesn't diminish their loyalty...
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My accounts on our alliances are:
North: Very much on our camp. That said they might take some time to appear because the North is large and vast, so mustering an army will take quite a while.
The Vale: Unquestionable ally. Some houses might turn neutral but most of them will follow Jeyne. We broke the Arnold conspiracy and their conspirators. I doubt they will reemerge. At most they will stay neutral and pretend they were not called for war.
Riverlands: Very much on dispute. We still have to tour there but with the correct disposition we can wow most of them or at least those closer to the Crownlands. If we are able to become the Master of Law we might be able to bribe/bully/convince more of them to our side.
Westerlands: Very much Westerlings territory but we can maybe eek out a minority there, maybe some Reynes and other minor allies for us ? We can work on that during the rest of our tour.
Reach: Will be divided between our allies and those that will follow the Westerling pretender. I doubt any of them would follow Daemon( Peake might be an exception).
If we can get Otto to be our ally, i´m sure that we can turn that in a majority. More if we are able to be the Master of Law in the small council because then we will be able to bully and/or bribe lots of houses to our side.
The tyrells might just keep their neutrality but that is better than if they take the (future)Westerling pretender side.
Stormlands: Most of it is lost to us but we can maybe revert just a tad of the damage during out tour. I think we can maybe manage to turn to our side some of the houses near the Crowlands.
Might be convinced of whom to support by Rhaenys Velaryon since they supported her claim on the throne.
Crownlands: Who knows ? They might support who has more presence in Kingslands. So it will probably be split.
Velaryons: They can either our best friend or our worst foe. They have dragons and lots of money. If they want they probably can hire a mercenary army to try to take Westeros. I have the mind that now that we are properly betrothed we can pursue an alliance with them because peace with Dorne is vital to them keeping their holding on the Stepstones and it is out Betrothal contract that is bringing Dorne to the fold. Corlys is very ambitious but overestimate his hold on the family, if we befriend Laena and Laenor we can probably make them be at least neutral during the Civil War. We might need to impress on Corlys the importance of not letting Laena marry Daemon.
Daemon: Our most prominent rival, went to fight into the Steptones and is now returning a hero. Has a notable talent on burning bridges and alienating allies but at least until now, he can count Corlys Velarion as an Ally. Will probably do something foolish during his stay at the red keep. We will need to do our utmost effort so that he does not marry Laena.
One has to wonder: What are the chances that he get his job back as commander of the city watch ?
Dorne: Ally, our husband is the prince of Dorne. So they will support us during the Civil War.
External Influences: The Free Cities might support a rival if he promises to remove our influence in the stepstones. Daemon might be the one that promises this. Can´t see the Westerling promising this since it would risk the legacy of Viserys.
North: Very much on our camp. That said they might take some time to appear because the North is large and vast, so mustering an army will take quite a while.
The Vale: Unquestionable ally. Some houses might turn neutral but most of them will follow Jeyne. We broke the Arnold conspiracy and their conspirators. I doubt they will reemerge. At most they will stay neutral and pretend they were not called for war.
Riverlands: Very much on dispute. We still have to tour there but with the correct disposition we can wow most of them or at least those closer to the Crownlands. If we are able to become the Master of Law we might be able to bribe/bully/convince more of them to our side.
Westerlands: Very much Westerlings territory but we can maybe eek out a minority there, maybe some Reynes and other minor allies for us ? We can work on that during the rest of our tour.
Reach: Will be divided between our allies and those that will follow the Westerling pretender. I doubt any of them would follow Daemon( Peake might be an exception).
If we can get Otto to be our ally, i´m sure that we can turn that in a majority. More if we are able to be the Master of Law in the small council because then we will be able to bully and/or bribe lots of houses to our side.
The tyrells might just keep their neutrality but that is better than if they take the (future)Westerling pretender side.
Stormlands: Most of it is lost to us but we can maybe revert just a tad of the damage during out tour. I think we can maybe manage to turn to our side some of the houses near the Crowlands.
Might be convinced of whom to support by Rhaenys Velaryon since they supported her claim on the throne.
Crownlands: Who knows ? They might support who has more presence in Kingslands. So it will probably be split.
Velaryons: They can either our best friend or our worst foe. They have dragons and lots of money. If they want they probably can hire a mercenary army to try to take Westeros. I have the mind that now that we are properly betrothed we can pursue an alliance with them because peace with Dorne is vital to them keeping their holding on the Stepstones and it is out Betrothal contract that is bringing Dorne to the fold. Corlys is very ambitious but overestimate his hold on the family, if we befriend Laena and Laenor we can probably make them be at least neutral during the Civil War. We might need to impress on Corlys the importance of not letting Laena marry Daemon.
Daemon: Our most prominent rival, went to fight into the Steptones and is now returning a hero. Has a notable talent on burning bridges and alienating allies but at least until now, he can count Corlys Velarion as an Ally. Will probably do something foolish during his stay at the red keep. We will need to do our utmost effort so that he does not marry Laena.
One has to wonder: What are the chances that he get his job back as commander of the city watch ?
Dorne: Ally, our husband is the prince of Dorne. So they will support us during the Civil War.
External Influences: The Free Cities might support a rival if he promises to remove our influence in the stepstones. Daemon might be the one that promises this. Can´t see the Westerling promising this since it would risk the legacy of Viserys.
I really dislike the idea of ignoring a blatant injustice to the Stormlands and trying to rectify it. Rhaenyra is a knight, and the title means something to her.
She's also the heir. It's her duty to protect the Stormlands, as people who have so far not done anything to be punished for, and she currently doesn't even expect them to. Plus, though Viserys hasn't yet told her, the king thinks there's a need to appease them after this.
It might be It's too late to make up for it (the time to try was probably during negotiation), but we should try to make amends with those who both our father and fiancé basically accept have been wronged. Doing otherwise doesn't fit the attempts she has so far made to be just.
She's also the heir. It's her duty to protect the Stormlands, as people who have so far not done anything to be punished for, and she currently doesn't even expect them to. Plus, though Viserys hasn't yet told her, the king thinks there's a need to appease them after this.
It might be It's too late to make up for it (the time to try was probably during negotiation), but we should try to make amends with those who both our father and fiancé basically accept have been wronged. Doing otherwise doesn't fit the attempts she has so far made to be just.
Somic
It's meow or never
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I think you have a very specific definition of "just", "protect", and "wronged" that Rhaenyra might not agree with. Sure we should try to appease them, keeping one's vassals willing to follow and obey us an essential part of rule. But most people in those lands won't see much of a difference in quality of life. The only victims were the lords who now hold less land, and honestly, I couldn't care less on the moral level. Appeasing them is a matter of playing the game of thrones (also known as the game of herding cats), not the duty of a knight.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Qoren seems to be a broad-minded person who's quite capable of seeing the other fellow's point of view, so it doesn't surprise me that he can understand how a Stormland lord might object to the way the border negotiations are playing out.
Even if things have been done to try to soften things there... there's still going to be tension.
[X] Ask Laena to Stay in King's Landing a while longer
"At the very least" a good friend. What's more than a good friend?
Is he suggesting a threesome?
"At the very least" a good friend. What's more than a good friend?
Is he suggesting a threesome?
Nah, it happens, with the second Dunk and Egg book being about it:
The Sworn Sword said:
The Sworn Sword said:
The Sworn Sword said:
The Sworn Sword said:
The Sworn Sword said:
The Sworn Sword said:
The appearance that Houses and their territories remain the same is:
1) Much of the "known history" being unreliable. Both with how long ago things were, and what happened.
2) Because only the big stuff tends to get mentioned/remembered. "Minor border dispute #5000 of these two families" tends to not go down in history.
3) Similarly, the minor houses/families tend to not to get much/any attention on them.
4) The Faith of the Seven, unlikely the Catholic Church for much of history, allows cousin marriage and doesn't have Affinity laws, meaning it's easier to keep land and titles inside of the family.*
5) There's a custom of taking the names of the House that has long owned the lands, allowing them to draw upon that heritage for legitimacy if someone from outside of it inherits, especially if it's higher-ranked/more prestigious family.
6) And, of course, as mentioned, fights over land that allow one family to take over are kept out of the eyes of others, lest they be judged for breaking the King's Peace.
The Catholic Church, at one point, banned anyone from marrying someone they shared an ancestor with up to 7 generations ago and anyone so connected by marriage(affinity), even previous marriages through marrying widows and widowers(affinity begets affinity).
They eventually had to loosen the rules because near-literally every noble in Europe was considered related under these rules, so it was reduced to 4 generations back and marrying a widow(er) no longer made you related to their deceased spouse(affinity does not beget affinity).
They eventually had to loosen the rules because near-literally every noble in Europe was considered related under these rules, so it was reduced to 4 generations back and marrying a widow(er) no longer made you related to their deceased spouse(affinity does not beget affinity).
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