Honestly I think the prestige boost might get lost in the shuffle of the other, bigger news.
Smaller prestige boost? Sure, but it's a different sort of boost to our reputation, we're already the Dragon Knight, known for being Defiant and a warrior, but giving alms to the poor also lets people see we're kind and take care of our people, something that puts us in an even better light compared to Daemon, but also.

We don't know the smallfolks opinion of our Rhaenyra, but in canon when Rhaenyra snuck out into King's Landing, the smallfolk held plays mocking her and obviously preffered the male Aegon, and I doubt Flea Bottom will care that the realm just got two new kingdoms as they eat their bowls of brown.

But giving the smallfolk money and food? Yea that will make them like us.

Remember that King Bread reigns supreme.
 
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My increasing frustration with the travel topic comes from the fact that the whole core conceit is just nonsensical. It presupposes that we will spent most of our time in Kings Landing and Qoren in Sunspear in perpetuity, which... just doesn't make a lick of sense.

Qoren doesn't just have a duty as Prince of Dorne, but also as King Consort of the Iron Throne. Once we are queen, he will move to Kings Landing without a doubt. And this isn't in any way an odd expectation to have. Plenty of Lords Paramount were living full time in King's Landing while they held positions in the Small Council and had regents administrate their own holdings. This is normal. Why do we pretend he won't do that like everyone else before him? The only reason he wouldn't do it is because we are doing a Daemon and Rhea, meaning our marriage only exists on paper.

Likewise, why would we be squatting in King's Landing most of our time? We got Dragonstone to take care of. We actually have to spend time with Qoren to make the heirs happen. Can't mail some paperwork to make those. But we will also be travelling the realm a lot. We've got vassals to win over and a power base to build. That means going to Dorne, the Reach and the Stormlands to smoothen the unification at an absolute minimum. At the same time, we will also travel to the Reach, the North and like the Riverlands to keep up contacts there.

The whole premise is completely flawed.
 
My increasing frustration with the travel topic comes from the fact that the whole core conceit is just nonsensical. It presupposes that we will spent most of our time in Kings Landing and Qoren in Sunspear in perpetuity, which... just doesn't make a lick of sense.

Qoren doesn't just have a duty as Prince of Dorne, but also as King Consort of the Iron Throne. Once we are queen, he will move to Kings Landing without a doubt. And this isn't in any way an odd expectation to have...
Frankly I actually agree, but the problem is that the visitation clause has two phases.

Phase one is before Viserys dies, phase two is after.

After Viserys dies, Rhaenyra is queen, Qoren presumably spends a lot of his time in King's Landing, though the part where his own heir is getting raised in Dorne and so on suggest he won't spend all his time there, and maybe even not a supermajority. Rhaenyra may also sometimes hold court in Sunspear for a few months at a stretch now and then. But that's not the issue, that's not what worries me. None of that is a problem.

What worries me is before Viserys dies, because while there's no problem with Rhaenyra taking time with Qoren in Dorne, there absolutely is a problem with asking Qoren to leave Dorne several times over the next several years.

Unlike Rhaenyra, Qoren doesn't have the dragon fast-transit option (unless he gets real cool about riding Syrax with us and leaving his retainers behind). Qoren has a realm undergoing transition to keep an eye on. Qoren's going to be a very busy bee, and if he's repeatedly leaving Sunspear to go travel Westeros with us, it's going to cause him some actual inconveniences if not serious problems.

...

So if we're going to renegotiate the visitation clause of the contract, we need to renegotiate it in a way that makes it clear that until Rhaenyra ascends the Iron Throne, she is the one who has a flexible schedule and freedom to travel, and she is the one coming to Qoren, who is less free to move around at will.

Simon, we are not dictating terms, we are opening a discussion with Qoren. I'm not going to contract lawyer a write in to chat with someone.
The fundamental problem isn't that "we need more precise contract lawyering." The fundamental problem is that asking Qoren to do several visits over a period of several years is kind of a big ask, and asking him to commit to one and only one visit flat out isn't the commonsense reading of the language we're looking at. It's not a contract lawyering thing, it's just a plain black-letter text reading of what is actually there.

Smaller prestige boost? Sure, but it's a different sort of boost to our reputation, we're already the Dragon Knight, known for being Defiant and a warrior, but giving alms to the poor also lets people see we're kind and take care of our people, something that puts us in an even better light compared to Daemon, but also.

We don't know the smallfolks opinion of our Rhaenyra, but in canon when Rhaenyra snuck out into King's Landing, the smallfolk held plays mocking her and obviously preffered the male Aegon, and I doubt Flea Bottom will care that the realm just got two new kingdoms as they eat their bowls of brown.
I'm not saying it's a bad idea to give the tournament winnings to the poor. I'm saying that doing it right now in the middle of all these big announcements and festivals will tend to reduce the impact compared to doing it later when the fuss has died down a bit.

Among other things because kings and princes tend to accompany big announcements like "hey, my daughter's getting engaged" with their own donations and staged public events where they feed people and hold grand entertainments. Rhaenyra can benefit by performing the role of a good generous queen, yes, but Viserys is playing the same game as a good generous king. And he's very likely to take both Rhaenyra's engagement and Daemon's military triumph as opportunities to step into that role.
 
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I'm not saying it's a bad idea to give the tournament winnings to the poor. I'm saying that doing it right now in the middle of all these big announcements and festivals will tend to reduce the impact compared to doing it later when the fuss has died down a bit.

Among other things because kings and princes tend to accompany big announcements like "hey, my daughter's getting engaged" with their own donations and staged public events where they feed people and hold grand entertainments. Rhaenyra can benefit by performing the role of a good generous queen, yes, but Viserys is playing the same game as a good generous king. And he's very likely to take both Rhaenyra's engagement and Daemon's military triumph as opportunities to step into that role.
I'm a bit groggy rn but I don't really get the arguement, I mean i'm sure Viserys would be proud that Rhaenyra would want to watch out for the Iron Throne's subjects and let her do this charitable act on her own, and even if Viserys does outgenerous us, dumping a bunch of good stuff on the realm would help people asscoiate our marriage with a very good and prosperous moment for the realm.
 
Likewise, why would we be squatting in King's Landing most of our time? We got Dragonstone to take care of. We actually have to spend time with Qoren to make the heirs happen. Can't mail some paperwork to make those. But we will also be travelling the realm a lot. We've got vassals to win over and a power base to build. That means going to Dorne, the Reach and the Stormlands to smoothen the unification at an absolute minimum. At the same time, we will also travel to the Reach, the North and like the Riverlands to keep up contacts there.
One of our dreams is to become a member of the Small Council which require to remain in KL with a fair consistency, that doesn't mean that we cannot travel around Westeros, but our base of operations will be King's Landing...

Besides that one of the biggest problems of Rhaenyra (and her historical inspiration Empress Mattilda) was not being in the capital when his father died which allowed his brother to seize control
 
Royal Toll Authority New
Alright. The idea. I think I'm going to leave out the maps after all since they don't add that much.


Tolling a straight is awesome. It gets you a whole lot of money for barely any work at all. You only need to go out and collect it. However, the Stepstones are not one straight. They are, depending on where you intend to collect the toll, at least five straights. Two of them will border Bloodstone, under the control of Daemon (presumably), who does not get any money out of this and has no incentive to actually help in the collection. The other straights are either on both sides under Corlys control, or partially under Triarchy or Dornish control.

It's not like this can be done at sea either. Every ship needs to be forced into a harbor, of which the Stepstones don't really have any bigger than the odd pier for a pirate ship, let alone in good locations to do toll collection. That will take time, disrupt trade and be a major hassle for anyone who is used to just moving through these waters. At the same time, all of this needs to be coordinated and accounted for, which will likely cause no end of conflicts. And all of this even affects Dornish and Velaryon ships, since they still have to pay at least part of the toll.

However, the whole process could be expedited if ships could pay their tolls ahead of crossing. Just inspect the ship at port when it is loaded, pay toll on the cargo as seen, and get a slip of paper that permits you passage through the Stepstones. Once there, instead of going to port and having your cargo inspected there, you just rendezvous with one of the blocking ships and show your paperwork. The trader loses an hour or two instead of days while waiting for processing. But Corlys can hardly set this up in, say, Gulltown or King's Landing.

Enter the Royal Toll Authority. Set up by royal writ and under auspices of the crown princess, the RTA will set up offices in a number of major Westerosi ports to do toll inspections of vessels there. For a start, that would be the ports of Driftmark, Planky Town, Gulltown, King's Landing and, provided Otto plays ball, Oldtown. Fraud can be prevented well enough through the ship manifestos, cargo marking, simply comparing cargo at start and destination ports, and the occasional thorough check in the Stepstones if something is suspicious. All tolls collected in this way are tallied up, leaving Corlys and Qoren to simply collect their share of the revenue. A small handling fee is charged to the merchants for recouping operating costs.

The benefits:
- Corlys requires less men and infrastructure to enforce the toll, significantly lowering setup and operating costs for him
- Corlys doesn't have to deal nearly as much with Daemon
- participating ports become more attractive to merchants, increasing revenues, especially in Planky Town due to good geographic location
- money collected in this fashion is handled by a neutral party, reducing friction
- since payments are made centralized in Westerosi cities, the risk of fraud and corruption among the toll collectors is reduced
- since this only works for traffic between Westerosi ports, it means a notable trade advantage against Essosi merchants
- added royal scrutiny of ship cargo will aid local tax collection and law enforcement in the affected ports


Now, besides the prestige and recognition for being involved in this bit of statecraft, we can leverage this infrastructure later on for further business. Having offices handling large sums of money in many cities means we can start offering banking services through the RTA, generating a lot of income for the crown. It also means that we have an easy avenue to gather information in many locations, and we can leverage the influence from this to get better relations with affected lords. Further expansion of the setup would obviously also be a goal.

It's also an important step to getting Westeros some bits and pieces of bureaucracy. Later on, once we are queen, we have ready made network of offices and clerks to conduct business through.


@Teen Spirit, would this be something we can put in motion within the scope of an action?
 
My reaction reading this line by line:
nice, nice, nice, nice :V
Yes this absolutely works for a write-in action.
!!NICE!!😎

I support Azel's RTA proposal 100% and will vote for it. This also bring great negotiation pay off for Otto's Alicent deal. Removing some of my objection for immediate Otto deal of "We don't know what to give, we don't know what Otto want."

*Edit
and, provided Otto plays ball, Oldtown.
One thing Azel It can also be an important deal for Stormlander to play ball with us and Dornish integration. The closest trade port north of Stepstone is Weeping Town in Stormland which where majority Stormland sea trade happen.

Also Weeping Town hasn't been named Weeping Town yet and they are ruled by House Whitehead so may be they are Whitehead Town right now?
 
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The benefits:
- Corlys requires less men and infrastructure to enforce the toll, significantly lowering setup and operating costs for him
- Corlys doesn't have to deal nearly as much with Daemon
- participating ports become more attractive to merchants, increasing revenues, especially in Planky Town due to good geographic location
- money collected in this fashion is handled by a neutral party, reducing friction
- since payments are made centralized in Westerosi cities, the risk of fraud and corruption among the toll collectors is reduced
- since this only works for traffic between Westerosi ports, it means a notable trade advantage against Essosi merchants
- added royal scrutiny of ship cargo will aid local tax collection and law enforcement in the affected ports

Now, besides the prestige and recognition for being involved in this bit of statecraft, we can leverage this infrastructure later on for further business. Having offices handling large sums of money in many cities means we can start offering banking services through the RTA, generating a lot of income for the crown. It also means that we have an easy avenue to gather information in many locations, and we can leverage the influence from this to get better relations with affected lords. Further expansion of the setup would obviously also be a goal.

It's also an important step to getting Westeros some bits and pieces of bureaucracy. Later on, once we are queen, we have ready made network of offices and clerks to conduct business through.
I mean that sounds awesome, but I don't really understand why this can only be made the next turn or we lose it forever... To create such a new crown agency will probably take 1-2 years to set it all up, and whereas it is true that the sooner we start, the better, I don't see why this would be possible exclusively the turn 16 and not at the turn 17 or 18...
 
I mean that sounds awesome, but I don't really understand why this can only be made the next turn or we lose it forever... To create such a new crown agency will probably take 1-2 years to set it all up, and whereas it is true that the sooner we start, the better, I don't see why this would be possible exclusively the turn 16 and not at the turn 17 or 18...
Because right now when the deal is struck any competing interest in Stepstone toll collection does not exist. If we wait a year or two Corlys and Qoren will put their own toll collector and will be more recalcitrant in changing how things work. If we do it right now we probably just need recruitment and infrastructure building not adaptation and cooperation from existing authority.
 
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Because right now when the deal is struck any competing interest in Stepstone toll collection does not exist. If we wait a year or two Corlys and Qoren will put their own toll collector and will be more recalcitrant in changing how things work.
I am not saying that we should wait a year or two, only that @Azel plan seems doable in the next few turns until turn 17-18, not exclusively in turn 16
 
I mean that sounds awesome, but I don't really understand why this can only be made the next turn or we lose it forever... To create such a new crown agency will probably take 1-2 years to set it all up, and whereas it is true that the sooner we start, the better, I don't see why this would be possible exclusively the turn 16 and not at the turn 17 or 18...
Once Corlys has set up his own infrastructure, the benefits are getting much smaller. If we move right now, we can present this to him as a beneficial deal that eases things for him. If we wait, then he has set up his own arrangements and will not be interested.

Also, it's one action. This hardly a lot.
 
I am not saying that we should wait a year or two, only that @Azel plan seems doable in the next few turns until turn 17-18, not exclusively in turn 16
Currently it is only one action. With the changing material circumstance there is possibility if we wait it become not a one action only and we will be reluctant to take it.
 
Once Corlys has set up his own infrastructure, the benefits are getting much smaller. If we move right now, we can present this to him as a beneficial deal that eases things for him. If we wait, then he has set up his own arrangements and will not be interested.

Also, it's one action. This hardly a lot.
Ok this seems good...

Then for the next turn, we have pretty much locked in
  • Azel's Tolling Royal Agency Write in
  • Talking with Gwayne so that is help us with dealing with Otto
  • Talking with Otto either about Alicent or about Viserys Health.
And we have another 3 actions, so what should we pick here (unfortunately, we can't do all of them)? My top options are in no particular order
  • Talking with Lord Strong: We fulfill the mentorship duties, he would probably be useful for convincing Viserys/Melos to get Orwyle's treatment, and if we try to poach Alyss it is polite to ask her boss.
  • Sneak out and Explore the City: Between the betrothal and Daemon Victroy, the city will be very interesting this turn...
  • Prepare for a Trip to Dragonstone: We have been extremely stressed for a while and we keep building up stress; a romantic gateway seems like a good idea.
  • Fly to Harrenhal, it is cool and advances both "Stop having a panic attack when we see Aelora", and "Let's try to get our dad a better treatment"
  • Speak with Isembard Arryn, well we have to speak to him eventually, like we did with Steffon Redfort...
Thoughts?

I honestly think we should try to do something about Viserys' Health ASAP if only because it may give Nyra some peace of mind knowing that shr tried
 
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Talking with Lord Strong: We fulfill the mentorship duties, he would probably be useful for convincing Viserys/Melos to get Orwyle's treatment, and if we try to poach Alyss it is polite to ask her boss.
Speak with Isembard Arryn, well we have to speak to him eventually, like we did with Steffon Redfort...
There is great option in talking with jolly old Lyman Beesbury. Lord Beesbury have a great chance of great insight on Otto, Oldtown, and Citadel politic. He is direct vassal of the Hightower and the oldest and longest serving member of the council.

Talking Lord Strong and Isembard I plan to do on turn 18, the turn after Dragonstone. As while Law obligation must be done in this or the next turn we can still done Study Law or may be holding court in Dragonstone.
 
I'm a bit groggy rn but I don't really get the arguement, I mean i'm sure Viserys would be proud that Rhaenyra would want to watch out for the Iron Throne's subjects and let her do this charitable act on her own, and even if Viserys does outgenerous us, dumping a bunch of good stuff on the realm would help people asscoiate our marriage with a very good and prosperous moment for the realm.
I'm not saying anyone will mind.

What I mean is that I think a lot of people will barely notice what we're doing compared to the background radiation of what other people are doing with bigger budgets.

I think that just delaying a bit until a time when there are less likely to be other large displays of royal largesse going on at the same time would help make sure people notice what we're doing. And I'm sure the capital-W Winter will be long enough to give us a good opening for that, because food prices are only going to rise as Winter goes along.

One of our dreams is to become a member of the Small Council which require to remain in KL with a fair consistency, that doesn't mean that we cannot travel around Westeros, but our base of operations will be King's Landing...

Besides that one of the biggest problems of Rhaenyra (and her historical inspiration Empress Mattilda) was not being in the capital when his father died which allowed his brother to seize control
Yeah, this.

It is important to remember that in a medieval kingdom, you cannot effectively wield power as a jet-setter even if you have a plane, which we effectively do. The administrative organs that permit control of the state, and the political class that is capable of conspiring against you to seize the state, are all concentrated in the capital.

Since we aspire to wield actual power (more so than, say, Rhaegar did, I suspect) we are going to have to spend a lot of our time (not all) in the capital. Correspondingly, Qoren has to spend a lot of his time in the capital. And even more importantly, nearly all the time at least one of the set {Rhaenyra, Qoren} should be in one of their capitals.

This is why it's potentially problematic if we insist on a visitation scheme that commits one or both of us to spending large amounts of time traveling away from our respective capitals. Yes, obviously visitation is necessary, in order to have children among other reasons! But adding more mandatory visitation to the "if this is not fulfilled the marriage might be legally annulled" contract for reasons that are purely "it would be nice if" stuff is... not a good idea, I would say.

Alright. The idea. I think I'm going to leave out the maps after all since they don't add that much.


Tolling a straight is awesome. It gets you a whole lot of money for barely any work at all. You only need to go out and collect it. However, the Stepstones are not one straight. They are, depending on where you intend to collect the toll, at least five straights. Two of them will border Bloodstone, under the control of Daemon (presumably), who does not get any money out of this and has no incentive to actually help in the collection. The other straights are either on both sides under Corlys control, or partially under Triarchy or Dornish control.

It's not like this can be done at sea either. Every ship needs to be forced into a harbor, of which the Stepstones don't really have any bigger than the odd pier for a pirate ship, let alone in good locations to do toll collection. That will take time, disrupt trade and be a major hassle for anyone who is used to just moving through these waters. At the same time, all of this needs to be coordinated and accounted for, which will likely cause no end of conflicts. And all of this even affects Dornish and Velaryon ships, since they still have to pay at least part of the toll.

However, the whole process could be expedited if ships could pay their tolls ahead of crossing. Just inspect the ship at port when it is loaded, pay toll on the cargo as seen, and get a slip of paper that permits you passage through the Stepstones. Once there, instead of going to port and having your cargo inspected there, you just rendezvous with one of the blocking ships and show your paperwork. The trader loses an hour or two instead of days while waiting for processing. But Corlys can hardly set this up in, say, Gulltown or King's Landing.

Enter the Royal Toll Authority. Set up by royal writ and under auspices of the crown princess, the RTA will set up offices in a number of major Westerosi ports to do toll inspections of vessels there. For a start, that would be the ports of Driftmark, Planky Town, Gulltown, King's Landing and, provided Otto plays ball, Oldtown. Fraud can be prevented well enough through the ship manifestos, cargo marking, simply comparing cargo at start and destination ports, and the occasional thorough check in the Stepstones if something is suspicious. All tolls collected in this way are tallied up, leaving Corlys and Qoren to simply collect their share of the revenue. A small handling fee is charged to the merchants for recouping operating costs.

The benefits:
- Corlys requires less men and infrastructure to enforce the toll, significantly lowering setup and operating costs for him
- Corlys doesn't have to deal nearly as much with Daemon
- participating ports become more attractive to merchants, increasing revenues, especially in Planky Town due to good geographic location
- money collected in this fashion is handled by a neutral party, reducing friction
- since payments are made centralized in Westerosi cities, the risk of fraud and corruption among the toll collectors is reduced
- since this only works for traffic between Westerosi ports, it means a notable trade advantage against Essosi merchants
- added royal scrutiny of ship cargo will aid local tax collection and law enforcement in the affected ports


Now, besides the prestige and recognition for being involved in this bit of statecraft, we can leverage this infrastructure later on for further business. Having offices handling large sums of money in many cities means we can start offering banking services through the RTA, generating a lot of income for the crown. It also means that we have an easy avenue to gather information in many locations, and we can leverage the influence from this to get better relations with affected lords. Further expansion of the setup would obviously also be a goal.

It's also an important step to getting Westeros some bits and pieces of bureaucracy. Later on, once we are queen, we have ready made network of offices and clerks to conduct business through.
...Hmmm, interesting! This really does have some potential. I'm sure it'll run into hiccup and friction, but the basic idea is sound if we can pull it off and I'm open to turn plans that embrace it as long as we're not screwing over anyone important to Rhaenyra in the process.
 
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Likewise, why would we be squatting in King's Landing most of our time? We got Dragonstone to take care of. We actually have to spend time with Qoren to make the heirs happen. Can't mail some paperwork to make those. But we will also be travelling the realm a lot. We've got vassals to win over and a power base to build. That means going to Dorne, the Reach and the Stormlands to smoothen the unification at an absolute minimum. At the same time, we will also travel to the Reach, the North and like the Riverlands to keep up contacts there.
The advantage of having a dragon is that we can, if we so wish, travel literally anywhere in Westeros in less than a week. And the "royals travel in style" part can be somewhat made up for by the dragon as well - what's more stylish than a vast and powerful magical creature, symbol of Targaryen power? So we absolutely can squat in KL a lot of the time and still manage to visit the kingdoms semi-regularly.

Actually, outside of Royal Progresses and similar commitments, Dorne is the only place where it makes sense to not pop up on a dragon whenever and anywhere. We can chill there. I would very much like to spend at least a quarter of every year around our husband, not because it's an efficient use of our time and fast travel, but because all work and no family life makes for an unhappy princess.
 
The advantage of having a dragon is that we can, if we so wish, travel literally anywhere in Westeros in less than a week. And the "royals travel in style" part can be somewhat made up for by the dragon as well - what's more stylish than a vast and powerful magical creature, symbol of Targaryen power? So we absolutely can squat in KL a lot of the time and still manage to visit the kingdoms semi-regularly.

Actually, outside of Royal Progresses and similar commitments, Dorne is the only place where it makes sense to not pop up on a dragon whenever and anywhere. We can chill there. I would very much like to spend at least a quarter of every year around our husband, not because it's an efficient use of our time and fast travel, but because all work and no family life makes for an unhappy princess.
The trick is that if we're using the "A Few Details" plan, it kind of sounds like we're committing Qoren to doing a fair amount of travel too, and he doesn't have that fast-travel advantage because he can't just go everywhere on dragonback.
 
Talking Lord Strong and Isembard I plan to do on turn 18, the turn after Dragonstone. As while Law obligation must be done in this or the next turn we can still done Study Law or may be holding court in Dragonstone.
I very much doubt we can hold court at Dragonstone, I mean, besides the castle, you have a small port, and a few fishermen's villages and since I doubt that we can access any of the Small council in Dragonstone, for our mentorship obligations we can only study law in Dragonstone

And honestly, since we already have two committed actions in Dragonstone (music and poetry), I would prefer to talk to Lord Strong the next turn to have a free action available in Dragonstone in case we have something unique to do there...
 
And honestly, since we already have two committed actions in Dragonstone (music and poetry), I would prefer to talk to Lord Strong the next turn to have a free action available in Dragonstone in case we have something unique to do there...
But the sidequests! The next turn already promises to be kinda busy.
 
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