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The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest

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Teen Spirit said:
I need to point out how "Viserys marrying Laena" was viewed as horrific by basically everyone but Corlys, who probably also hated it but felt his entitlement mattered more.
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Honestly, I wonder what would have happened if we had gone to speak for Rhaenys without her husband...

@Teen Spirit if we had gone directly to Rhaenys would the "Wait until Laena is not a literal child" plan, would the proposal have been accepted?
Random Member said:
The dragon does not fear the snake. Seahorse. Whatever.
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These seahorses have 2 dragons more than us, and they are much bigger than Syrax...
 
TheBarrometer said:
But I don't think our position is weak. Our position is only weak if Corlys / House Velayron become our enemies in war where they could use their fleet / position to try and starve King's Landing. I think that Isembard wants to make money and thinks he can play at our insecurities and I think the thread is buying his line.

Otherwise what do we, the monarch/heir, care about which specific set of merchants carry trade goods to the capital so long as they arrive and the people aren't starving?



You previously said he wasn't blood feuding and now you think he's our enemy? I think he's miffed at us because from his perspective we kept Laena and his blood from the Throne. I think that with time and diplomacy he can be won around - undermining his houses source of income is going to annoy him further.
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During the Dance, Rhaenyra and Corlys starve Kingslanding by blocking the Blackwater, and effectively starve the smallfolk, and later on after being driven into a religous fervor, smallfolk storm the dragonpit and kill several dragons including Syrax because Rhaenyra was rather unpopular, but if Corlys can starve the capital of our kingdom, he's certainly got some leverage over us, so no we're not weak but our position is very arguably weaker than Corly's, so I do think we should worry about which specific set of merchants carry trades goods to the capital.

Not even mentioning what Stannis starving Kingslanding by blockading the Blackwater did during Joffrey's reign.

Also that was hyperbole, the fact is we don't quite know what Corlys is thinking or doing outside of his war in the Stepstones, and I would rather prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

Also don't forget we offered him a very good deal for Visery's marriage to Laena, and he basically insulted us and our house and tried to exert his demands over the ruling family, he does not see us an equal, he doesn't even see Viserys as an equal, but if we curb his monopoly over the Blackwater, he might be forced to negotiate with us from a position of strength, versus him negotiating while holding all the cards.

Plus Corlys is in the same vein of ambition as Otto, and even though Otto loves Viserys in a way, Otto still tried at every turn to put his grandson on the throne against Viserys' wishes, good relations with Corlys might not be enough, and if enough of the thread decides we should choose a different husband for Rhaenyra than Laenor, then we've lost a bargaining chip and potentially the chance to ally with Corlys, unless of course Corlys potentially agrees to marry a grandchild of his to a child of ours.
 
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[X] Agree to the deal.

Honestly? This would not only help Rhaenyra in Kingslanding but also the Vale lords I imagine. Might not be big gains at first but would grow. Man the Vale really could be her best supporters.

As for Corlys? Well if he's butt hurt about this? Then he has no one to blame but himself. Rhaenyra has multiple times tried giving the Velaryons a olive branch but Corlys keeps refusing even though his wife Rhaenys is telling him to accept. Wouldn't be surprised if other Velaryons were face palming at Corlys.
 
I should point out

A: Vhagar is the largest dragon but it was killed in combat by a smaller dragon

B: the second largest, and younger, dragon is unclaimed, on Dragonstone, which belongs to Rhaenyra.

C: Barring a freak accident, you are decades away from ruling and any possible dance. you absolutely have time to both have kids and weaponize them.
 
Lord of Sturgia said:
During the Dance, Rhaenyra and Corlys starve Kingslanding by blocking the Blackwater,
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Yes, with control of Dragonstone and its fleets and Driftmark and the Velayron fleet. This venture by what's his face Arryn will not be enough to stop that if the Velayron's become our enemy - we'd need to fight their navy with ours, it would likely be one of the most important theatres of the war!

Even if all of the merchants bypassed Driftmark (which this won't make happen to clarify), their positioning and their fleet would still be able to raid or blockade us if we didn't fight them.

Orrrrrr we could bypass that need to fight a naval war (with Dragons don't forget the Dragons) we ally him. Which you seem to want to do anyway?

Like my read is that you're onboard with allying Corlys by marrying Laenor (I vaguely am too!), so we don't actually need or want to weaken him! We want to court him, and negging just doesn't work sadly.
 
Also cmon guys, let's not lose the chance to do something interesting because we're afraid of pissing people off, we won't ever make everyone happy but we can make sure Rhaenyra succeeds in her dreams.
 
Rhaenys must be so tired. Far Rhaenys is aware Rhaenyra is being pretty reasonable with the Velaryons at this point. Was willing to help get Laena married to Viserys long the marriage happened in a few years. Corlys refused. Next tried getting Laenor on the progress with Rhaenyra basically implying a possible marriage together. Again Corlys refuses. At this point once the news of Gulltown Arryn influence spreading to Kingslanding? I'm expecting Rhaenys to pull a "I told you so" with Corlys.
 
Maybe we should shake things up in this new reality and marry a stark and have all of Westeros go what the fuck!

Maybe we can list a bunch of candidates for marriage and see the pros and cons?
 
TheBarrometer said:
Yes, with control of Dragonstone and its fleets and Driftmark and the Velayron fleet. This venture by what's his face Arryn will not be enough to stop that if the Velayron's become our enemy - we'd need to fight their navy with ours, it would likely be one of the most important theatres of the war!

Even if all of the merchants bypassed Driftmark (which this won't make happen to clarify), their positioning and their fleet would still be able to raid or blockade us if we didn't fight them.

Orrrrrr we could bypass that need to fight a naval war (with Dragons don't forget the Dragons) we ally him. Which you seem to want to do anyway?

Like my read is that you're onboard with allying Corlys by marrying Laenor (I vaguely am too!), so we don't actually need or want to weaken him! We want to court him, and negging just doesn't work sadly.
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Hmm okay I see your point, but the thing is, Driftmark is at the end of our progress, giving Corlys around a year to make plenty of moves, and there is the chance that we arrive, offer to marry Laenor or to ally with Corlys in some other way, and he refuses us, meanwhile we've let go of an ally and gained nothing for it.

Of course Corly's ambition might just make it so he overlooks this whole Arryn Gambit in favor of the throne.

Man we really should have made Driftmark the first stop.

Ah well either way it seems we largely agree, just want to go about it in different ways, i'll do some thinking but it also can't be argued that this whole Arryn Gambit spices up the story and that alone makes me want it to succeed.

Also to be fair we are Lady of Dragonstone which likely could give us some benefits in a naval war with Driftmark.
 
FallenDawn said:
Maybe we can list a bunch of candidates for marriage and see the pros and cons?
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There's a romance list under informational which isn't quite the same thing.

You could probably look at canon for some other highlights - both Lannister twins courted canon Rhaenyra, as did the Brackens and Blackwoods for instance.

The biggest drawback for most marriage candidates will be that they're sexist pricks.

EDIT: to avoid double posting;

Lord of Sturgia said:
Man we really should have made Driftmark the first stop.

Ah well either way it seems we largely agree, just want to go about it in different ways,
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Yeah, I think so. I want us to ally the Velyarons as I genuinely do think if we can figure out the heir problem Laenor is the best candidate for us to marry. I dunno maybe if Joffrey is bi the solution is an orgy (not serious suggestion) or something. If we ally the Velayrons, their strength becomes our strength, and as such I don't see a need to weaken them.
 
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Teen Spirit said:
Nah Corlys trying to force the issue of marriage the same time as canon. Again, dude waited six months to shoves a grieving Widower at his 12 year old. and then basically threw a fit and went home to sulk after Viserys picked a different underage girl.
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Was more saying Rhaenyra offer was pretty good with Rhaenys seeing that but Corlys was being impatient and had a big opinion of himself. Couldn't just accept the win of compromise. Wanted a total win. And yeah it was still in character.
 
With considering marriage options. My general advice would be to consider the following, among other things

1: What does the marriage give Rhaenyra? Political power? control over the capital? dragons? armies?

2: Will the husband try to run things for Rhaenyra or in general makes things a living hell for her?

3: Will the Husband's family or anyone he brings in try to control Rhaenyra, because that will be a problem. Even among people who support Rhaenyra as queen there will be people who effectively try to rule through her?

4: Will the Husband tolerate/accept Rhaenyra's side romance(s)?

5: Who are the possible enemies of your prospective husband and his family?

6: Will the QM hate you for marrying them and giving your children terrible muppet names?
 
[X] Agree to the deal.
It's not control of the merchants in King's Landing but it could be a powerful way to sway them in the future. We're already working on filling the Watch's command with people loyal to us so this can be one more way to increase our power outside the Red Keep. Also money, I like money.
Teen Spirit said:
6: Will the QM hate you for marrying them and giving your children terrible muppet names?
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Don't threaten us with a good time. Aelbert and Aernest. And their dragons Big Bird and Snuphaelupygos.

...

Maybe this is a mistake...
 
[X] Agree to the deal.

I think at this point we need to aim towards mitigating the power of Velaryon-Daemon alliance, rather than acting as if we can avert it entirely. We might be able to poach a Velaryon kid at some point, but Corlys and Daemon have their minds set on the throne.
 
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