Fate/Clusterfuck (Fate/Stay Night)

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Adhoc vote count started by Erien on Nov 15, 2024 at 11:09 AM, finished with 56 posts and 34 votes.
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Erien said:
He's sharing regardless.
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Thank you kindly for saying so.

*looks at all the discourse*

Crimanilly it's a voting knife fight out here. And as I ponder my own choice I consider what I know about both Shirou and Erien, that the latter only offers quest options that the character either actually believes or is within their skill set. We've seen Shirou grappling with this very issue already, and as much as I want him to take the seemingly healthier approach the belief is still there. He still does believe that his life holds no value, that his existence has been on borrowed time and is best spent helping others even if it costs him everything.

[X] ["Because my life is worth nothing."]

Fuck it we ball.

The bandage needs to come off to show her the bleeding wound beneath. She deserves to see the deepest, ugliest truth that has overwritten his very existence. And conversely, she has every right to punch him dead in the face to help either beat his demons to death or help beat some sense into his skull.
 
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DB_Explorer said:
It's a quote from firefly attributed by the priest to Shan Yu.

anyway what I'm saying HERE is that Shirou has had a VERY trying week... if there was a period to be life changing THIS IS IT.
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Erien said:
Your fist goes through the wall, punching clear through some metal piping. It returns a moment later, smoking, but completely unmarred. You were a Magus. You were a monster. You weren't human like Ayako was, you were something apart, separate. You were alien, you couldn't treat other humans like they treated each other. You couldn't treat Magus like people either. It's not just your fault.

You didn't know how Rin was raised, you didn't know she was a Magus until a few days ago. How could you? You weren't even aware there were other Magus in the city. Sakura, Shinji, now Rin. The blame for the deaths couldn't rest on you, you wanted to be a hero. You wanted to save people just as you yourself were saved. It was your ideal, yojur purpose. It was the only reason you were alive.
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Yet, within the last five updates, Shirou has acknowledged that saving people is his purpose. The only reason he's alive, and thus, this life can only be given worth through it's pursuit. Shirou feels all three of these. He believes someone has to save these people. He believes he simply does want to and in putting his precious people first. Beneath both, which he gained after becoming an Emiya, at the core of his being, is the survivors guilt that hit him immediately upon waking up in the aftermath of the fuyuki fire. The survivors guilt that says he shouldn't be alive and that his life cannot have worth if his survival doesn't serve some greater purpose.

So yes, while Shirou has changed, and is changing, the core of survival guilt feeding into his Savior and Martyr complexes has not been overwritten. He's telling the story regardless, but this is the spin he puts on it, the part of who he is that he bares to Ayako. Even if something else wins, the other two will still be their regardless.

Thus, we need to tell Ayako that deep down Shirou does think that he his life has no inherent worth. That it is only through his efforts to save others that he can justify his survival, so she can get team save Shirou on helping him change this part of himself.
 
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[X] ["Because my life is worth nothing."]
I should have died in the fire, but I didn't by a quirk of luck. The boy I was, the family I had. They are all gone. My parents survived, but I'm not that person anymore, I'm not even a person at all. My life has no meaning, only in what I can do for others. Don't pity me, it's something I accepted a long time ago. As long as I can help others, even a third-rate magus like myself… well, even my life has meaning. To make up for those who lost their lives. I'll save everyone.

The girls can't fix Shirou's head unless they know exactly what's wrong with him so I say rip the band-aid and start actually working on what's underneath. Also Ayako being the most human person around Shirou should make her the most suitable for dealing with his inhumanity.
 
*tries to provide 2 cents, makes a quarter*

None of the options exactly skimp on the willingness to self sacrifice and what not because I want to literally says "It will certainly destroy me someday".

I think voting for ensuring Medea and the rest find out how much Shirou needs hugs/therapy/someone to prevent his idiocy is a mistake in that every option will have Shirou spell out his world view and all the issues it implies.

What we are voting for is how Shirou views helping people.

Because he's nothing has him needing to save everyone. Full stop because thats where derives his worth. It's the most impersonal outlook as befitting one caused by needing to make one feel.

Because someone has to has him accept he can't save everyone but knows he needs to try to save as many as he can because its what right. It's a middle ground in that it's anchored in a personal moral outlook but its almost like a duty or 'fine I'll do it myself'

Because I want to Has him view every life saved as a postive, he wants to save as many as he can because each on is worth it. And he views his loved ones as MORE worth it.... its the most personal outlook.

Reguardless of if you view the above interpretations as right or not the point it that this vote isn't about ensuring Shirou shares anything- that's likely happening in every route - we are deciding Shirou's outlook on things.

If you want Shirou doing this because he thinks he is useless otherwise fine...but I find him doing it because he wants to more compelling because its a motivation entirely done by choice from his POV. He's not doing this to prove himself, or to because it must be done, but because he wants to. It's crazy, gonna kill him maybe but he doesn't care... its what he wants to do.

he wants to be a hero.
 
[X] ["Because I simply want to."]

The op said that shirou will reveal his views about the fire irregardless of the choice this i think is about choosing the main reason for Shirou wanting to save people,i think shirou will explain that he thinks his life has no worth no matter the choice,his survivor guilt isn't gonna disappear we are just losting his main motive for being a hero
 
Erien said:
[] ["Because my life is worth nothing."]
... To make up for those who lost their lives. I'll save everyone.

[] ["Because someone has to."]
... I will always prioritize you all over the masses, but I won't abandon them either.

[] ["Because I simply want to."]
... I will save those dear to me, and I will kill anyone who threatens them.
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After reading the latests posts, thinking a little bit More about Shirou's actions so far, the broken sheel we all know he Is, and what we want for him onwards

I Will change my vote to "I simply want to"

[X] ["Because I simply want to."]

Wanting to save "Everyone" Is the very mindset that would turn him into EMIYA in most futures.
One where he abandonds His loved ones for the sake of saving everyone he can

And I want a Shirou who Is Selfish. Someone who would dear His loved ones close to His chest and damn anyone who poses a threat to them

He didn't hesitate with killing Shinji when he returned only to kill/hurt More people.

He was ready to kill Rin if It meant stoping Salter from killing More civilians, but specially, if it meant getting Taiga back.

And he Will be ready to kill both the Masters of Brihanala and Cu Berserker because they have cero care for cassualties

But most importantly, I want Shirou to truly grasp the idea that he Is Loved, and he Is free to Love back. And that It Is Human to put some over the others because you Care
 
[X] ["Because someone has to."]
This war is chaos, the previous one was as well. Nobody helps, nobody seemingly wants to help. The servant summoned to do so seems powerless and distant. If nobody else will, I will. I will protect my loved ones. I can't save everyone, but I can save enough. I will always prioritize you all over the masses, but I won't abandon them either.


Brings to mind,
Gil: I don't understand why you care!
Shirou: Because somebody should!

View: https://youtu.be/-hWTYx91z7w?si=q49W8LXDOgKkuSKj
 
Also, i think you guys are overreacting. This decision will not seal Shirou's destiny as Mind of Steel or HF.

Shirou already had his selfish moments, when he decided to go against Raiga to save his sister, ignoring the choice that could save more people. I see this more as "how open will Shirou be about his problems to Ayako" than "this will define Shirou's route in this story".

I also doubt that the author is going to make Shirou do some crazy impactful thing without a vote, just based on the result of this.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Erien on Nov 16, 2024 at 8:38 AM, finished with 73 posts and 42 votes.
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Locked in 24 hours.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Erien on Nov 16, 2024 at 5:22 PM, finished with 76 posts and 43 votes.
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Locking in 14 hours.
 
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