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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:

I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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If you look at MPurification/worldy warding/thungni as a set of three 2 rune combos you get:
*This assumes WW counts magic as "blows" which it should because the combo includes that ability and it's definitely not coming from the other two runes.

MPurification/WW - Magic blows against the wearer cause them to become more resistant to that damage in that area, excess magic that is not resisted is vented as heat
MPurification/Thungni - Magic is ordered inside the body, that which is not ordered is vented as heat
WW/Thungni - Damaging magic is ordered inside the body and strengthens the areas affected

That comes together as "Damaging magic is ordered as it flows through the runesmith, strengthening their channels and venting the excess safely."
Well, I think you're granting quite a lot of lee way with the high concept but... what are you getting at?
 
━<><><>< 483 A.P. ><><><>━​

It's been an eventful few days, and you would like nothing more than to sit down and drink while you think everything over.

But there's still one glaring issue you must begin to address.

Skaudardrengi.

Building something of that size and complexity was a nightmare no matter how you looked at it. First, it would require a dedicated workspace and equipment to build. Compared to everything else, that wasn't the hard part truth be told.

Then there was deciding where to build it.

Much as you would like to just build the parts then assemble somewhere else, the logistical complications alone would make moving that much Adamant around more than was necessary a nightmare. More importantly, the realities of the Gronti's construction required a level of precision and sophistication that made storing the parts somewhere away from where they were being created untenable.

No, for Karstah's plan to be built to the best of your combined abilities, it had to be done and kept together all in one place.

You had understandably operated under the assumption that the Gronti would be built within Khazagar, expanding your Workshop with Zharrgal and good ol fashioned masonry to accommodate something of that size. It would be the safest possible option, and the fastest too. But Karstah had brought up two viable alternatives that were at least worth hearing out.

There was the closest "major" Waystone to the Hold. It would be a trek to get the material there, but in exchange you could build every part of the Gronti with the power of a tapped Waystone powering its Runes. There was the threat of something going wrong, as there always was when you touched those things, but it was certainly worth the cost. And with the Hearth Guard nearby you doubt any gribblies that spilled out would last long enough to stop you or Karstah from shutting off the tap.

Karstah had been hesitant to say it at first, but she had eventually brought up the Anvil of the Earth as the other location where you could build the Gronti. You're not so traumatized that the thought of that place would scare you of course, but to be fair mentioning it had given you pause.

You had understandably complex feelings about that place on account of it nearly killing you.

Then again that wasn't the Anvil's fault moreso than it was yours for the attempt.

Ignoring your feelings, the logistics of building around the Anvil were arguably worse than the Waystone. More distant, and across rougher terrain to reach. Nevertheless, the benefits could arguably outweigh the negatives. The final location of Master Yorri's journal was a supremely potent Arcane Fulcrum of what you've come to realize is Chamon and Aqshy for one thing. That power made Skarrenbakraz go beyond even your wildest expectations, and even the dregs that remained were enough to immediately hatch and irrevocably alter the triplet. Add in the fact that it was the likely cause for Mhorni's existence was another point in its favour to boot. But all of that power was unreliable, and barring some way of keeping it open permanently, you had no way of making it consistent yet or ever at all.

You also had to ask, well you didn't but for the sake of thoroughness you ought to, if the space would have some future purpose. Did you see yourself building more things if not to the same quality, then scale as Skaudardrengi? Would it be just Gronti, or would you branch out? Difficult to say, and honestly you don't evne know if its worth considering. At the very least specialized facilities and tools may make it easier for you, though that came at the cost of time and labour.

That was it for the mundane problems.

Then there were the more esoteric, Rune-based, ones.

Skaudardrengi was of a size that the Runes needed would be encroaching on the constraints and limits that Structural Runes solved. Beyond a certain point, a Rune needed either a more effective means of powering the entire "item", or they needed to be fed enough power to remain active. Both problems that Structural Runes accounted for by naturally remaining immobile and harnessing that particular quirk of Runecraft and by making specific alterations to their striking to better handle that energy. If you wanted something to move, there was a point where it became where power had to fall to the wayside. Historically Regular sized Gronti were the safe limit of what a Runesmith could expect the Master Rune of Waking to power long enough with the material you had available, any bigger and you had to trade uptime at an exponential rate. Adamant's discovery had pushed that boundary further, but not infinitely so.

Your creation would, being three times the size of most Gronti, be pushing the theoretical limits of what even Adamant could allow. You had no doubt it could move of course, but how long was still a work of estimate and theory. There simply hasn't been anyone stupid enough to attempt what you and Karstah are doing.

The Rune of Empowerment and Siphoning should alleviate that concern, but if you wanted to be sure there were other things you could do.

Firstly, was to add more of the reagent.

Expensive, and like changing the reagent, could have unexpected results though certainly not as likely. Most times it ended up either making the Rune stronger but not always enough to be worth the cost, making an irrelevant change, or rarely structural failure. It had been done for the Master Rune of Waking, but since you don't have those examples in front of you, and the Dawi that built those examples are either busy, long dead, or screaming at you in rage you can't ask them either. It was doable, and the most straightforward, but you can't guarantee anything. Karstah hadn't thought it was worth the effort, which considering everything else she did should say something, but you were scraping this particular bone dry anyway.

The second was safer and would certainly do something, but was more time consuming. It meant developing a variant of the Master Rune of Waking that you were more sure could manage something that large to a degree you'd be happy with, but that may ruin everything else. Altering Runes had a way of futzing with things that took time to account for and that took more time.

Or you could do both bring yourself closer to the floor when you sit on your gold pile just that teensy bit more. A variant of the Master Rune of Waking that cost twice as much but would be even better suited to the task.

If it was anything else, then seeing someone futzing enough to worry about these concerns would make any right thingking Dawi see them as a Dibna.

But this wasn't that, so you weren't.

Simple really.

If only everything else you've thought about could be.

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Edit: also note Karaz-Kazak-Rhun will retain its bonus action regardless and if you start building during a storm it will count for the bonus even if you cant finish that turn.

For reference, this is the base cost of Skaudardrengi and its facilities.
[ ] [Simple] Gronti-Bay: [Cost: any 2 actions] Peerless Production will proc. Something to house and build Skaudardrengi
- [ ] Hirelings: [Cost 5 Favour with Kraka Drakk] Gain 1 progress. Can be taken without action input. Call in a favour or two, they've owed you for centuries at this point.

[-] [Difficult] Monumental, Skaudardrengi, The Singing Slayer, Emperor Dragon Gronti Pt. 2: [Cost: 3 actions] Minimum completion date 3 Turns. Due whenever. Peerless Production will proc. Locked due to lack of facilities.
An exemplary 45 meter Storm Wyrm forged from pure Adamant, with eyes of glowing Dronril shielded by metallic lids. Rest linked in this post.
Notable Structural Material cost:
x192
bars of [T4] Adamant
x2
pieces of [T2] Dronril
- [-] Choose: Combo, Empowered Awakening+: [Master Rune of Waking [T4 Greedy Troll Heart], Rune of Empowerment [T4 Dragon Ogre Shaggoth Heart], Rune of Siphoning [T4 Greedy Troll Heart].]
- [-] Revise Runes: [Cost: -1 actions] Next Revision will cost +1 action. Back to the drawing board. Choose new Runes, Function or Theme.

Where do you build it and what sort or workshop do you want?
[ ] [Location:] Within Khazagar. -1 total actions to Gronti-Bay. Benefits from the Rune of Siphoning. Skaudardrengi will be built within Khazagar, expanding your workshop to accomodate.
[ ] [Location:] Around a Waystone. +2 actions to Gronti-Bay. Can tap a Waystone when crafting. Skaudardrengi will be built near a Waystone. Being near such a massive source of power will surely improve Skaudadrengi's potency
[ ] [Location:] Overtop the Anvil of the Earth: +3 actions to Gronti-Bay. Can use the Anvil of the Earth when crafting. Skaudardrengi will be built near a Chamon and Aqshy alligned Arcane Fulcrum. It means the location's use, barring some future enhancement, will be limited to when the Anvil itself is active.

[ ] [Scope:] Just enough for Skaudargrengi.
[ ] [Scope:] Dedicated Facility. +1 action to Gronti-Bay. Every 3 request actions building Monumental Gronti add 1 extra progress. A workshop space dedicated to the construction of Gronti the size of Skaudardrengi.
[ ] [Scope:] Dedicated General Facility. +2 actions to Gronti-Bay. Every 3 request actions building Monumental Items add 1 extra progress. A workshop space dedicated to the construction of anything the size of Skaudardrengi.

Do you do more to Skaudardrengi?
[ ] [Runes:] Do neither.
[ ] [Runes:] More Reagent. Double reagent cost for Skaudardrengi's Runes (not including equipment). Unreliable, but should be safe. It would just be expensive.
[ ] [Runes:] Improve the Master Rune of Waking. +2 actions to Skaudardrengi. Gain improved functionality for future Master Runes of Waking. Safe, but time consuming. It would do more to make sure the Gronti would function for as long as you hope it would before needing maintenance or recharge.
[ ] [Runes:] Do Both. +3 actions to Skaudardrengi. Double reagent cost for Skaudargrengi's Runes (not including equipment). Gain an improved variant of The Master Runes of Waking for monument-scale Gronti that would cost at minimum double the reagents. Oh sure Klausson, go whole hog, you idiot.

━<><><><==><><><>━​

AN: I'll add this to the body of Turn 58 and count the votes from there as well, don't worry.
 
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[] Plan: Going All Out
-[ ] [Location:] Overtop the Anvil of the Earth: +3 actions. Can use the Anvil of the Earth when crafting. Skaudardrengi will be built near a Chamon and Aqshy alligned Arcane Fulcrum. It means the location's use, barring some future enhancement, will be limited to when the Anvil itself is active.
-[ ] [Scope:] Dedicated General Facility. +2 actions. Every 3 request actions building Monumental Items add 1 extra progress. A workshop space dedicated to the construction of anything the size of Skaudardrengi.
-[ ] [Runes:] Do Both. +3 actions. Double reagent cost for Skaudargrengi's Runes (not including equipment). Gain an improved variant of The Master Runes of Waking for monument-scale Gronti that would cost at minimum double the reagents. Oh sure Klausson, go whole hog, you idiot.
 
There's at least one cut off and misspelling. You might know them already, but just incase.

If it was anything else, then seeing someone futzing enough to worry about these concerns would make any right thingking Dawi see them as a Dibna.
...

[ ] [Runes:] Improve the Master Rune of Waking. +2 actions. Gain improved functionality for future Master Runes of Waking. Safe, but time consuming. It would ensure you could
Also Dibna? Have we seen that term before?
 
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Does choosing anvil and dedicated facility mean the facility is at the anvil? That seems kinda undefended and far away, though cool!

Thinking about a fimir raid, would be bad.
 
We should storm forge it too. Imo. Overflow is more complicated... I don't know enough about that to say anything. I'll wait until the analysts figure it out.
 
Anvil of the Earth as the other location where you could build the Gronti. You're not so traumatized that the thought of that place would scare you of course, but to be fair mentioning it had given you pause.
oh ancestors, again?!; every time we go there some weird bullshit happens, usually for the best, but still weird bullshit.

Love the logistical problems for magic, it's something you don't see very often unless is human sacrifices. practicioners are just kind of assumed to always have some black candles, chalk and a handy basement.
 
This was a multi turn action regardless wasn't it? I guess I'm curious what actions are slotted for it, however I don't see a reason to not improve Waking. Harder to overflow but also directly improves the Gronti.
I can't really think of any momumental things we're planning on building in the future apart from the Gronti, apart from if more defense in depth shows up I guess. Long term its pretty to get back that investment if we do... but what would we do it with? Another 200 adamant on another building? Hell Monumental Gronti's would force adamant spend since this seems to be only possible because of it.
 
[ ] [Scope:] Dedicated General Facility. +2 actions. Every 3 request actions building Monumental Items add 1 extra progress. A workshop space dedicated to the construction of anything the size of Skaudardrengi.

[ ] [Runes:] Do Both. +3 actions. Double reagent cost for Skaudargrengi's Runes (not including equipment). Gain an improved variant of The Master Runes of Waking for monument-scale Gronti that would cost at minimum double the reagents. Oh sure Klausson, go whole hog, you idiot.

I mean, it's a good principle to give the players one tu of opportunities for input, but do you really think these two options won't completely sweep?
 
I mean, we've already crossed the line with this damn Gronti too much to take reasonable or sensible measures now.

Where's the kitchen sink, we'll throw that in too.
 
[] Plan: Going All Out(waystone edition)
-[ ] [Location:] Around a Waystone. +2 actions. Can tap a Waystone when crafting. Skaudardrengi will be built near a Waystone. Being near such a massive source of power will surely improve Skaudadrengi's potency
-[ ] [Scope:] Dedicated General Facility. +2 actions. Every 3 request actions building Monumental Items add 1 extra progress. A workshop space dedicated to the construction of anything the size of Skaudardrengi.
-[ ] [Runes:] Do Both. +3 actions. Double reagent cost for Skaudargrengi's Runes (not including equipment). Gain an improved variant of The Master Runes of Waking for monument-scale Gronti that would cost at minimum double the reagents. Oh sure Klausson, go whole hog, you idiot.

I just don't like having time constraints on when to build it
 
If we want to have a voice with the future of elf dawi relationship and spend sometime towards the war effort, going all out now isn't the best time.

Also, availability is best capability.
 
What kind of monumental items would we make other than Gronti?

And building it on a waystone or the anvil means we then have to defend it or if we don't defend it willing to allow an enemy (particularly Chaos) to desecrate and perhaps corrupt/twist it. Its also very risky for both.

This Gronti is being made for Khazagar; it thematically makes more sense to me for it to be made in Khazagar.

[ ] Plan: Pragmatically Excessive
-[ ] [Location:] Within Khazagar. -1 total actions. Benefits from the Rune of Siphoning. Skaudardrengi will be built within Khazagar, expanding your workshop to accomodate.
-[ ] [Scope:] Dedicated Facility. +1 action. Every 3 request actions building Monumental Gronti add 1 extra progress. A workshop space dedicated to the construction of Gronti the size of Skaudardrengi.
-[ ] [Runes:] Do Both. +3 actions. Double reagent cost for Skaudargrengi's Runes (not including equipment). Gain an improved variant of The Master Runes of Waking for monument-scale Gronti that would cost at minimum double the reagents. Oh sure Klausson, go whole hog, you idiot.

Lets build a Gronti bay. And monumental Gronti are always going to be time and resource sinks.

Imagine it we'll have magical mechbay in our workshop!
 
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[] Plan A Monument to Eternity
-[ ] [Simple] Gronti-Bay: [Cost: any 2 actions] Peerless Production will proc. Something to house and build Skaudardrengi
--[ ] Hirelings: [Cost 5 Favour with Kraka Drakk] Gain 1 progress. x4
-[ ] [Location:] Within Khazagar. -1 total actions. Benefits from the Rune of Siphoning. Skaudardrengi will be built within Khazagar, expanding your workshop to accomodate.
-[ ] [Scope:] Dedicated General Facility. +2 actions. Every 3 request actions building Monumental Items add 1 extra progress. A workshop space dedicated to the construction of anything the size of Skaudardrengi.
-[ ] [Runes:] Do Both. +3 actions. Double reagent cost for Skaudargrengi's Runes (not including equipment). Gain an improved variant of The Master Runes of Waking for monument-scale Gronti that would cost at minimum double the reagents. Oh sure Klausson, go whole hog, you idiot.

While the Waystone would be nice, I really want a general facility for similar purposes and that maximizes the Gronti itself, but leaving all that Dawi construction and knowledge outside Khazagar seems like a bad decision.

20 favor to save 4 actions - 2 for the bay, 2 for the DGF - seems like a decent choice.
 
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