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The Long Founding (Warhammer 40k)

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Binge-Reader said:
Oh the warp entity is absolutely still around and exerting influence. The strategic Secularization leaves not doubt it exists and knows how to play the game.
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Yep, possibly she influences the population by giving them wisdom to give a right decision, in that situation it was "stop openly worshipping me" so that Emperor won't burn the world to the ground.

And even passive worship, by basically doing something with wisdom will sustain her being.
 
[X] IRS - Part 2 VA
- [X] Ultramarines
- [X] Atherena
-- [X] 1 Charge of Adaptive Gene-Seed
-- [X] 1 Charge of Potent Gene-Seed
 
Binge-Reader said:
The important bit in the post was the pessimistic setting. Everything in 40k against it's worst forms with things doing their damndest to get them to that form.

Democracy is not a better option in this setting because it will often be bastardized into a hellhole as bad as what you want it to replace. It being a feature of the world is fine and dandy but actively trying to export it is going to get slapped by the powers that be since the Imperium is fundamental an ABSOLUTE monarchy.

Especially if people want the chapter to actively cause democratic rebellions which is something they will get them declared rogue or outright traitors for.
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Yes, but that isn't always the case. Look at Keepers of Truth, people pointed out how awful of a idea is resurrection of Imperial Truth, yet, the worst didn't happen.

Also, no. Imperium, at least now, is not absolute monarchy, the authorities of wider Imperium, Inquisition and High Lords, don't give a fuck, what's the political system on a planet, they care about the tithes and nothing more.

As long as planet remains loyal, gives tithes and some major fuckery isn't happening, the wider Imperium doesn't care. For example: Let's say that uprising happens on the world Birb V, the rebellion is against the specific planetary governor, not the Imperium itself, the uprising succedes, previous governor is executed and the rebellion leadership takes control, some planetary laws change but nothing more, so the wider Imperium accepts the new leadership, it's proclaimed to have been Emperor will and that's it.

Rebellion which are against Imperium are the problem not rebellions in general. And again, Emperor is currently the Deity first and foremost not active Monarch.

So it's perfectly possible the Chapter wouldn't have any problems by changing planetary political systems and if they make worlds more efficient, the Chapter will be appreciated.

gamer50018 said:
You have made three errors in this sentence.

First: Frog did not write that addition to the planet's description. I did.

Second: That is not a Word of God (or Word of Saint Paul, I suppose). It is Grimm's in universe opinion.

Third: Grimm was not saying he thinks "democracy is vulnerable to Chaos" is false. He believes it is false for this specific planet, because said planet managed to remain sane during the Heresy.
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Didn't know about the first, rest is fine and thank you for the answer. This still proves that democracy doesn't have to be easily corruptable and the Chapter of Word Bearers will be spreading the culture, specific form of democracy practiced on the planet and the ideas of the planet people, so the planets influenced by the Chapter still wouldn't be easily corrupted, at least not more than any other political system or world.
 
Dlan the Wizard said:
Rebellion which are against Imperium are the problem not rebellions in general. And again, Emperor is currently the Deity first and foremost not active Monarch.
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No all rebellions regardless of reason are a problem. The planetary governments are all approved by the administratrum and thus through the imperium logic filter the Emperor.
Thus ALL action by the masses against against an approved planetary authority is the masses challenging the authority of the Imperium. That is from the Imperium's perspective unacceptable and must be crushed before it can spread.
Investigating why a rebellion happened and punishing the government after said rebellion is crushed is one thing. Fostering rebellions because you think the planatery method of government is shit is another.
 
[X] IRS - Part 2 VA
- [X] Ultramarines
- [X] Atherena
-- [X] 1 Charge of Adaptive Gene-Seed
-- [X] 1 Charge of Potent Gene-Seed

[X] IRS - Part 2 VB
- [X] Ultramarines
- [X] Fleet Based
- [X] 1 Charge of Potent Gene-Seed
 
Adhoc vote count started by Theia on Oct 15, 2024 at 6:44 PM, finished with 164 posts and 39 votes.
  • [X] Plan: Fuck it democracy time
    -[X] The Word Bearers: More than any other Legion, the Word Bearers, Sons of Lorgar Aurelian, creator of the Imperial Creed and the First Heretic, were masters of spreading ideals. Any Chapter born from them is likely to spread the teachings of their home planet far and wide. Beyond this, they were a generalist Legion, practicing all forms of war, though their investment in promoting their own philosophy and ideology makes them skilled at countering those who attempt the same.
    -[X] Atherena: A planet that followed a democratic government, and worshiped a local goddess of wisdom prior to the Great Crusade. Oddly enough, it seemingly spontaneously secularized very shortly before the Great Crusade arrived in its orbit. Some fear democracies are too vulnerable to Chaos's corruptive effects, but considering they made it through the Heresy you don't think that's much of a concern here. (Segmentum Solar).
    --[X]1 Charges of Adaptive Gene-Seed.
    --[X]1 Charges of Potent Gene-Seed.
    [X] Plan: Covert Revolutionary Operations Wing
    -[X] The Raven Guard: The Gene-Seed belonging to the Sons of Corvus Corax no longer has a Mucranoid or Betcher's Gland, resulting in the lack of the acidic spit and the loss of the ability to generate an outer coating to protect the body against extreme environments such as the void of space, and causes a cosmetic mutation in the form of unnaturally pale skin... but the Raven Guard, despite their crippled numbers after Istvaan III, are a worthy lineage as any other. They are specialists in stealth warfare, and are more capable in guerilla war than any other.
    -[X] Atherena: A planet that followed a democratic government, and worshiped a local goddess of wisdom prior to the Great Crusade. Oddly enough, it seemingly spontaneously secularized very shortly before the Great Crusade arrived in its orbit. Some fear democracies are too vulnerable to Chaos's corruptive effects, but considering they made it through the Heresy you don't think that's much of a concern here. (Segmentum Solar).
    --[X]1 Charges of Adaptive Gene-Seed.
    --[X]1 Charges of Potent Gene-Seed.
    [X] IRS - Part 2 VA
    [X] IRS - Part 2 VB
    [X] IRS - Part 2 VA
    - [X] Ultramarines
    - [X] Atherena
    -- [X] 1 Charge of Adaptive Gene-Seed
    -- [X] 1 Charge of Potent Gene-Seed
    [X] Plan: He's Right Behind Me, Isn't He?
    -[X] The Alpha Legion: The Gene-Seed derived from the traitorous Alpharius is, despite it's origins, very pure as the physical is concerned, with no noticeable mutations beyond the fact that Alpha Legionaires tend to so closely resemble their father as to be able to impersonate him convincingly. On the mental side the Alpha Legion's Gene-Seed seems to create more secretive Astartes with a greater sense of initiative, resulting in them being masters of intelligence gathering, sabotage, and all other forms of indirect warfare.
    -[X] Fleet Based: The Chapter is fleet based and will be constantly on the move, but as a result will lack a proper home unless it decides to claim a world for its own in the future.
    [X] IRS - Part 2 VB
    - [X] Ultramarines
    - [X] Fleet Based
    - [X] 1 Charge of Potent Gene-Seed
    [X] IRS - Master Bruce Van Helsing Edition
    [X] Plan Penant Birds
    -[X] The Raven Guard: The Gene-Seed belonging to the Sons of Corvus Corax no longer has a Mucranoid or Betcher's Gland, resulting in the lack of the acidic spit and the loss of the ability to generate an outer coating to protect the body against extreme environments such as the void of space, and causes a cosmetic mutation in the form of unnaturally pale skin... but the Raven Guard, despite their crippled numbers after Istvaan III, are a worthy lineage as any other. They are specialists in stealth warfare, and are more capable in guerilla war than any other.
    -[X] Penancia II: During the Heresy the planet of Penancia II sent a great many soldiers to aid in the loyalists' cause. However, most of them wound up killed in transit, and the people of Penancia felt it was their fault. Despite the fact no one in the Imperium even slightly blames them for it - it's not like they were the ones flying the blasted ships - the people of Penancia II have taken to flagellation and ritual scarring of themselves en masse, to atone for failing the rest of humanity.
    --[X]1 Charges of Adaptive Gene-Seed.
    --[X]1 Charges of Potent Gene-Seed.
    [X] Plan Croc Hunters
    [X] Plan Ravens of Rhodes
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This is the votes so far:

IRS - Part 2 VA is winning with 14 votes, with Fuck it, democracy time, Covert Revolutionary Operations Wing and IRS - Part 2 VB tied with 12 votes and coming in third is He's Right Behind Me, Isn't He? with simply 6 votes
 
[X] Plan: Fuck it democracy time

Mostly favoring the WB here over the RG due to the WB being Generalists, while the RG are Stealth Specialists. Given the degree on which Rebellion can go in 40k, a Generalist approach is probably a bit better overall compared to an approach that prefers the subtler applications of force.

Plus Counter Propaganda, that could be fun.

Both are still very good.
 
Binge-Reader said:
No all rebellions regardless of reason are a problem. The planetary governments are all approved by the administratrum and thus through the imperium logic filter the Emperor.
Thus ALL action by the masses against against an approved planetary authority is the masses challenging the authority of the Imperium. That is from the Imperium's perspective unacceptable and must be crushed before it can spread.
Investigating why a rebellion happened and punishing the government after said rebellion is crushed is one thing. Fostering rebellions because you think the planatery method of government is shit is another.
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The justice meted out by the Adeptus Arbites does not concern itself with low-level transgressions. Murder, theft, enslavement and a whole raft of abuses of individuals and groups are far beneath their notice. Even planetary coups are merely monitored dispassionately, albeit very closely. As long as the incoming ruler fulfils their duties to the Imperium, such power grabs are seen as a natural excision of a weak ruler.

Imperial worlds or systems commonly have their own set of local ordinances that can vary considerably from one to another. The penal code of the agri world of Treskin,for example, is referred to as the Lex Treskina. What constitutes planetary laws and how they are enforced are the responsibility of the planetary governors appointed to rule the world. These powerful individuals use organised Enforcers, private armies, hired thugs or any means they deem fit to maintain order.

By contrast, the primary duty of the Adeptus Arbites is to make sure that the Imperial tithe is paid in full and on time. They are concerned with crimes that affect the running of entire systems and sub-sectors. Their squads of armoured officers put down industrial riots that would endanger a world's production quotas, close down traffickers bleeding useful workers away from their rightful position and break up illicit trading cartels that imperil sub-sector economies or, worse, treat with xenos. Planetary governors who evade their tithe payments can also find themselves under the Arbitrators' eyes.
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From: Kill Team Soulshackle page 24.

Imperium doesn't give a fuck about rebellions. Kill every last noble on the planet, skin their children alive and feed their corpses to dogs. Imperium will shrug it off as long as you will pay the tithe after you are done having your fun of torturing "the weak and inefficient" ex-ruler. If you did the skinning children alive bit in the name of Slaanesh and Inquisitor has reason to believe this: then the Imperium reacts. If not? Skin alive as many children as you can. This is cleary the will of the Emperor, because you are sending tithes on time.

So again, if democracy makes planets more efficient, Imperium will be happy with the Chapter spreading the democracy as far and wide as the Marines please.
 
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