Traveller, The Rise of Empire: A Naval Design, Procurement and Command Quest

In hindsight what I like most about this quest is that it's structure - (relatively) short updates every day - create more realistic decision-making process than many of comprehensive plan quests. We do not have comprehensive picture of what's going on, with reports sorted into the relevant categories. We do not have time going in discreete pieces, like "this is week 1, after that there would be a week 2 with voting for the new plan, and then week 3 and so on" - depending on the events we could have month worth of game time per update, or 3 days worth, or 6 hours.
We are reacting to the crisis of "NOW", because there is this eternal NOW.
We are not in control of the tiger. We are not even riding the tiger. We are sitting in the conference room discussing the carrier ship and it's fighter complement, with a general understanding that there are some tigers walking around the building and one of them would knock on the door soon. We are preparing the stealth fighters to counteract the orange tiger from the fron door or the back door. But it could be two small white tigers from both directions. It could be a giraffe outside knocking on the window. It could be that we already have a rhesus monkey in our room, sleeping in the trash bin.

It's great. :V
This is honestly one of the best complements I've ever had about my quest style, and it really captures what I'm aiming for. Imperfect information, relying on distant reports by ships captains and task force commanders, and the difference between the known knowns, the known unknowns and the unknown unknowns (fucking rumsfeld). The monkey, to be clear, would be the lattermost one.
 
10-2: Movement in the Breach
Adhoc vote count started by 4WheelSword on Sep 23, 2024 at 6:56 AM, finished with 31 posts and 8 votes.

  • [X] OPLAN: Bolt
    [X] OPLAN: Bolt
    -[X] Design a smaller "escort" or "patrol" carrier and a larger "fleet" or "command" carrier.
    --[X] Escort Carrier: Two strike squadrons, one EWAR squadron (36 small craft, ~470 tons)
    --[X] Fleet Carrier and Command: Five strike squadrons, two EWAR squadrons (84 small craft, ~1,100tons)
    -[X] Review CFA, frigate, and IC III designs and create revised Mark 2 designs of all existing variants incorporating new hull and armor production techniques for review.
    -[X] Further integration of minor polities can only have positive results
    -[X] Heimdall Sector Command: HSWS Kyzaghan (CFA-Bpt), MMV HSWS Perkūnas (restrictions on particle-beam usage still apply), 3xCourier, IC-III HSWS Sakumo, HSWS Sekhmet, HSWS Tlaloc, HSWS Tohil, Frigates HSWS Alaz, HSWS Juno, HSWS Keres, HSWS Nike,, FSS Lakapati and an MDS when available; DSS SWS Aditi, HSWS Hanwi, HSWS Tishtrya, HSWS Uenuku to continue passive recon jumps into Equus and Sinone.
    -[X] Cassalon Station: MDS Cassalon, 1xCourier, two mercenary Aslan cruisers, Cassalon self-defense ships / stations, system patrol boats.
    -[X] Home / Reserve: IC-II HSWS Apolake, HSWS Pallas, MDS, when available, 3xCourier
    -[X] Staging Point Reserve: Monitor HSWS Caturix, CFA HSWS Rongo (CFA-Apt), HSWS Maha Sona (CFA-Dpt), HSWS Maher (CFA-Cpt; when complete), IC-III HSWS Apedemak, HSWS Apolake (when complete), HSWS Ninurta (when complete), HSWS Pallas (when complete), IC-II HSWS Kartikeya, HSWS Korravai, HSWS Neto, HSWS Ullr, Frigates HSWS Hysminai, HSWS Virtus, HSWS Wadjet, HSWS Ogun, HSWS Zhurong, HSWS Homano FSS Ikapati, 1xCourier
    -[X] Hexos Tripwire: 1xCourier, 1xISS
    -[X] Shambala Relay: 1xCourier, 1xISS
    -[X] Activate merchant marine as necessary to provide mentions, supply, and fuel transport.


What should the carrier carry? Design a smaller "escort" or "patrol" carrier and a larger "fleet" or "command" carrier. Escort Carrier: Two strike squadrons, one EWAR squadron (36 small craft, ~470 tons), Fleet Carrier and Command: Five strike squadrons, two EWAR squadrons (84 small craft, ~1,100tons).
What do we make of this offer? Further integration of minor polities can only have positive results
What is the HSWS response? Reposition additional forces along the line

Advanced Drive Layouts - TL 9
Improved Plant Efficiencies - TL 9
Quality Hull Construction - TL 10
High-Density Metals - TL 10
Electronics and Sensors - TL 9
Command and Control systems - TL 9
Enhanced Starship-grade Weapons - TL 9

Available Budget: 1,354.05MCr
Current Dockyard Usage: 9,500Dtons



Lights in the Dark - 15y06m00w
The HSWS goes into full activity, redeploying forces rapidly from Home and the core system(s) to the 'defence line' against Hermosan aggression. Heimdall receives some of the most modern forces available to the fleet, with a CFA and the MMV HSWS Perkūnas commanding a force of four modern cruisers and four frigates, while the newest MDS is dispatched on one of the two operable Modular Merchants to reinforce the anchorage and fuelling stations. Meanwhile, Cassalon has a pair of Aslan cruisers attached (paid for out of the HSWS' budget, of course) and the sector in between is reinforced such that the Staging Point Reserve represents a significant second strike capability with multiple Fast Attack Cruisers and Interstellar Cruisers present or pre-assigned once they leave the slips.

Even Hexos and Shambala receive a warship and a courier each, a cruiser and a courier that are able to show strength and dart back to Home if they detect anything untowards.

This responsive deployment calls for or requires:
- Five cruiser class vessels, of which four are currently available and will be kept on station beyond their standard refit assignment if necessary.
- Fourteen small cruisers/large escorts, with only 11 available until three months from now. Additionally, six of these eleven are still armed with the banned particle weapons that have been the source of some distress over the last year and a half.
- Ten Frigates, the entire force of light escorts, with no leeway given for required maintenance or yard time.

This deployment is going to stress the force to its limits, with little in the way of leave or rest for the next few months, but with a dangerous threat on the border, it is considered entirely necessary. After all, the incoming scouting missions don't stop, and the outgoing Surveyors identify at least fifteen individual 'Broadsword'-class combat platforms based on their active sensor data. It is understood that these are rotating between systems and wherever they go, there is also one of their larger 'Mother'-class vessels in something approaching close formation with them.

If there is a consistent pattern of build-up along the 'front', analysts cannot see it. The Hermosans are rarely without six combat platforms in each of the vital systems, Equus and Sinone, and these platforms are the ones flying scouting missions into Heimdall (and potentially other systems? We have reports of jumps that did not correlate with a jump flash in Heimdall).

The Jump flashes in Hexos are occasional at best. Over the course of a month exactly one is detected by newly positioned forces there. If it is the Hermosans and not someone else, it may be that a four jump mission is the limit of their endurance, or it may be that they're keeping us in the dark about their current capabilities, which is not perhaps at all surprising.

With large chunks of the new fleet coming out of the slips, we see a sudden increase in the number of scouting approaches and for the first time we see two enter the system one after the other, and then a third half a day later. Forces present in Heimdall beat to quarters and prepare for action, fighters are launched, the task force strings itself out into a combat formation... but nothing comes. A few hours later all three ships leave without contact.

Hermosa is testing us, watching our response to a penetration. The Citizens Council is displeased with the current passive approach and are encouraging a firmer response. Senior members of the HSWS also consider this plenty of provocation to conduct offensive manouvres. What say the decision makers?
[ ] Plan and conduct a strike into Sinone with the intent to do infrastructure damage. What forces?
[ ] Plan and conduct a strike into Equus, with the intent of removing multiple Hermosan ships from play. What forces?
[ ] Plan and conduct a strike into Sinone with the intent of occupation. Bring up the MAT as well as X forces.
[ ] Other - write in.



Capital Considerations - Carrier Battle
There is a last decision to make regarding a carrier - or the two carriers as the case may be - and that regards launch and landing facilities. While the MAT has no particular interest in launching its load as quickly as possible, instead focusing on safe launch and recovery of a few shuttles at a time, a combat carrier exists in a remarkably different dynamic. Should a carrier be able to launch its entire complement at once or just half of it?

It must be noted that initial conversations regarding the capabilities of launch and landing decks have led to some confusion over the capabilities of each, capabilities that have been reproven with the existence of the MAT and training operations utilising that ship.
- A launch tube is capable of launching up to ten craft every other round, with most designs opting for either a 'full-launch' mode which catapults two craft every 72 seconds (and then spending several minutes positioning the next squadron for launch) or a 'continuous-launch' mode which opts for a slower but more consistent two craft every 144 seconds while deck gangs bring up the next craft. Functionally, a launch tube dispenses a full squadron in six minutes and then requires six minutes to prepare for the next squadron.
- A recovery deck is capable of safely 'catching' a flight of four craft over the course of six minutes, or up to twelve with diminishing safety standards. Pilots have repeatedly demonstrated the capability of grav-traps to 'catch' a high-speed approach by a shuttle while the same systems also bring home three of its squad-mates. Combat conditions have seen eight- and twelve-trap landings conducted as well, but everyone involved considers the four-trap to be the safest way of bringing home a squadron in fighting condition.

What is the ratio of launch and recovery decks to squadrons aboard our planned carriers?
[ ] One launch tube and one recovery deck per squadron.
[ ] One launch tube per squadron and one recovery deck per carrier.
[ ] One launch tube per three squadrons and one recovery deck per three squadrons.
[ ] Other - write in.



Refits and Construction
We have 8,500 tons of yard space coming available and a dearth of escorts and fully refit cruisers.

What does the HSWS plan to build?
[ ] Additional Interstellar Cruiser Refits (355Mcr each, 6 remain)
[ ] Another CFA (1280-1490Mcr based on variant)
[ ] Frigates of the current type (500 tons, 190Mcr each)
[ ] Enhanced frigates using modern technology (500 tons, ?Mcr each)
[ ] Save the space for a Fleet Carrier based on the MAT
[ ] Save the space for a Fleet Carrier of a new design
[ ] Save some small amount of space for an Escort Carrier.
[ ] Other - write in.

Please present votes as plans. Voting opens at
 
So the launch and recovery options are basically do we want the USA's full strike doctrine of every fighter in the air as fast as possible or the rest of the worlds continuously launching over time
 
Do we want Big Carrier or Small Carrier first? We can maybe lay a small one now, but nothing else. For a big one, we would need to wait until the next budget year, and instead can spend money on IC refits and new tech frigates.
At the moment the money are bigger limiter than a yard space.
 
We have a limited budget for the amount of yard space we have available - 1,354.05MCr gets used up very quickly.

Our current deployments leave absolutely no margin to replace ships that suffer any damage or need routine maintenance in the yards, so I think we need to lay down additional hulls to account for this (Perhaps an argument for a future repair/maintenance anchorage build).

Reviewing what we know about the Hermosan's principle combat ship leads me to the following conclusions: More PD is required. Also, if these missile boats are slow they may be vulnerable to speedy bomber small craft. Their big 8,000 ton ship we know next to nothing about. Presumably it enabled the landing of forces to take over Equus and acts as logistical support for the Broadswords, though with it's size it could still mount sizable armament.

- The Broadsword-class of Hermosan combat ship is a 2,000 ton missile destroyer with 144 principal weapon tubes/launchers. It is expected that they will use nuclear weapons in a combat scenario, unless they have had similar experiences to home. Their drives appear under-sized for the class of vessel and thus they may be relatively slow compared to our line ships (the various CFA-type platforms). This may imply a more defensive style of warfare compared to that which we have been designing for, or simply an inability to build drives of sufficient size.

I've estimated a new frigate cost at approx 215 Mcr each. With x3 new frigates and 2x IC refits that completely uses up the available budget.

This would use 3,500 tons of yard space and leave us with 5,000 tons - which should be more than enough for an escort carrier to be laid down once we get more budget next turn. I think in the short-term getting these smaller escort carriers out quickly will be more valuable than waiting forever for a Fleet Carrier to be completed. As it is, they may not be commissioned in time to factor in to any conflict with Hermosa.

[ ] Plan: Maintain Logistics
-[ ] One launch tube and one recovery deck per squadron.
-[ ] x2 Additional Interstellar Cruiser Refits (355Mcr each, 6 remain)
-[ ] x3 Enhanced frigates using modern technology (500 tons, ?Mcr each)
-[ ] Save some small amount of space for an Escort Carrier.

I'm still undecided on an offensive strike against the Hermosans.
 
A reconnaissance in force into Sinone and Equus to test their reaction and get a better view of their potential orbital defenses might be worthwhile. If I had to choose, I would say an actual strike into Equus, as they'll have had less time to build up orbital stations.

EDIT: The 1/1 ratio will mean we need 1400 tons of launch and recovery decks on the big carrier, plus the 11000 tons needed for hangar space. Which I think will be doable on a 9k hull. We could also do one launch tube for every two squadrons / one recovery deck per squadron, which would still let us scramble the whole complement in about 20 mins and cut tonnage down by about a quarter.
 
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Okay so I've done some deranged maths and here's what I consider the optimal strike approach by our bombers

Pre-burn: The bombers use enough thrust to send themselves on a ballistic trajectory towards the target and switch off - no radiation, no nothing. Maybe some very minor RCS for holding formation.
Burn: The bombers switch on and light their rockets for a 30m 9G burn from 280-300,000km all the way to 150,000km. This is a five turn death dive and you hope there's no interceptors.
Shoot 1: Each bomber fires a missile at the target at 150,000km. They are now travelling at 106,000m/s. Time on target for missile 1 is ~15 minutes.
Shoot 2: Each bomber fires a missile at the target at 65,000km. Time on target for missile 1 is ~9 minutes and for missile 2 is ~8 minutes. Bombers begin a perpendicular burn to evade targets PD range. 9G's applied.
Shoot 3: While under thrust, each bomber fires a missile at the target at 27,500km. This missile will impact inside this turn around the time the Bombers will pass the target. Bombers will fly a closest approach to target of 15,000km, outside short range by 2,500km. Time on target for missile 1 is ~3 minutes and for missile 2 is ~2 minutes.
Post-shoot: Missile 2 impacts, followed by missile 1. Bombers are now moving away from the target.





If anyone can come up with a better or safer bomber approach methodology I would be glad to hear it but I think this gets weapons on target with minimised risk. Thanks to my housemate for helps with the maths.
 
This is, effectively, a barrage of 50-60 missiles followed by a ToT of 100-120 missiles, based on our fleet carrier loadout. Number goes up if we're coordinating multiple carrier wings.

Torpedo craft get a single launch (obviously) and can effectively shoot from outside PD range with about 50-60 torpedoes. Probably optimal launch range is "fire missile 2" step above.

EDIT: this would also include 40-48 decoys fired from the EWAR craft or an additional 20-24 bomb pumped or mwh torps.
 
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[ ] Plan: Yes Rico, Kaboom
-[ ] Plan and conduct a strike into Sinone with the intent to do infrastructure damage. What forces: HSWS Kyzaghan (CFA-Bpt), HSWS Rongo (CFA-Apt), HSWS Maha Sona (CFA-Dpt), C-III HSWS Apedemak, HSWS Sakumo, HSWS Sekhmet, HSWS Tlaloc, HSWS Tohil, Frigates HSWS Hysminai, HSWS Virtus, HSWS Wadjet, HSWS Ogun, HSWS Zhurong, HSWS Homano, HSWS Alaz, HSWS Juno, two mercenary Aslan cruisers, MMV HSWS Perkūnas (to work as SAR ship primarily).
If possible, use our supposed superior speed to maneuver around the enemy ships and target the softer infrastructure instead.
Most other ships to Heimdall, two ICs to Cassalon.
-[ ] One launch tube and one recovery deck per squadron.
-[ ] x2 Additional Interstellar Cruiser Refits (355Mcr each, 6 remain)
-[ ] x2 Enhanced frigates using modern technology (500 tons, ?Mcr each)
-[ ] Planet-based defensive fighter squadrons for Home and Cassalon.
-[ ] Save some small amount of space for an Escort Carrier.

1354 Mcr minus 2x355Mcr is 644. Considering that old frigate is 190Mcr, I don't think we would manage three of them. We can try to build efensive fighters for our planets on the remaining spare change instead.

Burn: The bombers switch on and light their rockets for a 30m 9G burn from 280-300,000km all the way to 150,000km. This is a five turn death dive and you hope there's no interceptors.

And also hope that there are no frag missiles around the target.
In case if we thinks that there interceptors/missils the bombers and ewars should probably load 2 misiles as frags.
Could EWAR fighters launch their own missile and use the countermeasuers against enemy missiles at the same turn? If no, some ewares would be on "launch duty" and others on "ewar duty", then switch.
 
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Going to keep caping for 1 launch tube/2 squadrons and 1 recovery deck/1 squadron for some tonnage savings and the ability to scramble half the complement instantly and the second half six minutes later.
 
Going to keep caping for 1 launch tube/2 squadrons and 1 recovery deck/1 squadron for some tonnage savings and the ability to scramble half the complement instantly and the second half six minutes later.
So, like, we launch half of strikers/ewars first, then we wait until other half if loaded and launch them too, and then all crafts form up and go on attack run?
 
I'm strongly against attacking Hermosa at this point. I had a big writeup here, but it comes down to us having absolutely zero strategic vision for winning this war. Sure, we can think of ways to take Sinone, blow up what we know of their fleet, etc., but we don't know enough about Hermosa to say what levers we have to bring them to the negotiating table after. If their main world is five parsecs out beyond Sinone, and they can keep building spacecraft faster than we can blow them up (as a worst-case scenario of us still "winning"), how do we get them to agree to peace? What's their schwerpunkt, in a strategic sense?

Going to war right now would be like if the Japanese decided to kick off WWII by attacking Pearl Harbour without knowing anything about what's on the other sdie of the Pacific beyond "there's a country called America there".

We should escalate, but that escalation should consist of ramping up our cold war. Do deeper probes, start work on stealing Hermosan technology, try and see if there are ways to set up resistance groups, etc.
 
So, like, we launch half of strikers/ewars first, then we wait until other half if loaded and launch them too, and then all crafts form up and go on attack run?

Alternately you put two weaker strikes in the air. Deckload strikes are an old and fairly well-respected way of running a carrier and were both Japanese doctrine and later, American. Of course our bombers don't have to burn fuel waiting for the other ones but still.

I agree that lashing out at Hermosa is worse than useless when we have no conception of their overall strength or extent.
 
[X] OPLAN: Sentinel
-[X] There is no need to start a shooting war... yet. Begin conducting reconnaissance in force in kind. Continue to probe Sinone and Equus, with an eye toward picking up on orbital defenses and "typical" force compositions in both systems, as well as Hermosan reaction times and any broadcasts for filtration and review by the intelligence arm. Continue internal wargaming of WARPLAN YELLOW and WARPLAN RED.
--[X] Sinone Group: HSWS Perkunas, IC-III Sekhmet, Sakumo (1x Cruiser, 2x Light Cruiser)
--[X] Equus Group: HSWS Kyzaghan, IC-III Tohil, Tlaloc (1x Cruiser, 2x Light Cruiser)
--[X] Heimdall Garrison: MDS Heimdall, 3 frigate type craft, Anchorage squadron
--[X] Regroup the DSS for a long-range mission to the "north" of Equus to survey beyond the edge of Hermosan space in that sector. Attempt to discover what is beyond the "west" of Hermosan space; utilize FSS to extend range if necessary.
--[X] If no developments (e.g. attack on Heimdall) within next month, stand down Staging Point Force to Cassalon for regular refits and rest and begin rotating escorts, cruisers, and light cruisers through Heimdall. Reestablish Staging Point as a reactive reserve with two cruiser type craft, two light cruiser type craft, two frigate type craft, and a single FSS to ease strain on active forces. Rotation is - Cassalon for regular refit and maintenance/rest - active reserve in Staging Point - active reconnaissance and garrison in Heimdall. Couriers to be deployed as needed. We cannot remain on high alert and maintain our fleet's readiness. With the MDS deployed to Heimdall, some of the threat is at least ameliorated.
-[X] One launch tube for every two squadrons, one recovery deck for every squadron.
-[X] Two additional IC refits (2k tons)
-[X] Two enhanced frigates using modern technology (1k tons)
-[X] Set aside 5500 tons for escort carrier build (or, if deemed not worth time, for saving for fleet carrier in 15y09m or other build in new fiscal year).
-[X] If living quarters and other facilities allow, replace the FB squadron on Heimdall Anchorage with a squadron of new strike fighters and a squadron of EWAR craft. FB squadron should be retained on Cassalon or Home as a ground-based squadron for the foreseeable future.
 
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[X] OPLAN: Sentinel
-[X] There is no need to start a shooting war... yet. Begin conducting reconnaissance in force in kind. Continue to probe Sinone and Equus, with an eye toward picking up on orbital defenses and "typical" force compositions in both systems, as well as Hermosan reaction times and any broadcasts for filtration and review by the intelligence arm. Continue internal wargaming of WARPLAN YELLOW and WARPLAN RED.
--[X] Sinone Group: HSWS Perkunas, IC-III Sekhmet, Sakumo (1x Cruiser, 2x Light Cruiser)
--[X] Equus Group: HSWS Kyzaghan, IC-III Tohil, Tlaloc (1x Cruiser, 2x Light Cruiser)
--[X] Heimdall Garrison: MDS Heimdall, 3 frigate type craft, Anchorage squadron
--[X] Regroup the DSS for a long-range mission to the "north" of Equus to survey beyond the edge of Hermosan space in that sector.
--[X] If no developments (e.g. attack on Heimdall) within next month, stand down Staging Point Force to Cassalon for regular refits and rest and begin rotating escorts, cruisers, and light cruisers through Heimdall. Reestablish Staging Point as a reactive reserve with two cruiser type craft, two light cruiser type craft, two frigate type craft, and a single FSS to ease strain on active forces. Rotation is - Cassalon for regular refit and maintenance/rest - active reserve in Staging Point - active reconnaissance and garrison in Heimdall. Couriers to be deployed as needed. We cannot remain on high alert and maintain our fleet's readiness. With the MDS deployed to Heimdall, some of the threat is at least ameliorated.
-[X] One launch tube for every two squadrons, one recovery deck for every squadron.
-[X] Two additional IC refits (2k tons)
-[X] Two enhanced frigates using modern technology (1k tons)
-[X] Set aside 5500 tons for escort carrier build (or, if deemed not worth time, for saving for fleet carrier in 15y09m or other build in new fiscal year).
Why aren't we probing beyond Equus? If we jump far enough out, they shouldn't be able to stop us.
 
I'm strongly against attacking Hermosa at this point. I had a big writeup here, but it comes down to us having absolutely zero strategic vision for winning this war. Sure, we can think of ways to take Sinone, blow up what we know of their fleet, etc., but we don't know enough about Hermosa to say what levers we have to bring them to the negotiating table after. If their main world is five parsecs out beyond Sinone, and they can keep building spacecraft faster than we can blow them up (as a worst-case scenario of us still "winning"), how do we get them to agree to peace? What's their schwerpunkt, in a strategic sense?

We most probably know where their main world is - it's Hermosa. However, yeah, they could have several developed worlds to the "west" of known ones.

[X] OPLAN: Sentinel
 
Oh, food for thought - we could phase out the fighter squadron in Heimdall and replace them with a squadron of the new strike-craft. In theory up to 4x the amount, but the main issue would be living space for the crews, so in actuality I think we could only get away with a single squadron or so. Actually, probably two since the fighter bombers have two member crews. So could put an EWAR and strike squadron there instead (or 1.5 strike, .5 EWAR).
 
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