Wards are enchantments place to defend against outer threats not to reinforce the structure of a building if you mean there are spells in place that might be hooked into the wards that would prevent them from blowing the place down I would say okay but Wards are not structural support magic in any sense
DP already said part of their plan is to bring them down to allow them to destroy the building. If the enchantments didn't prevent them from doing that he wouldn't have told us that they did.
You know what I'm just going to post the rules I'm just going to post the actual rules I'm going to go to the Dresden File Wiki and pull up all the information about Wards and then I'm going to go to mage and pull up all the information about Wards from there and I'm going to go to sorcerer revised and do the same thing because I feel like I'm not getting my point across about how this shit is supposed to actually function
DP already said part of their plan is to bring them down to allow them to destroy the building. If the enchantments didn't prevent them from doing that he wouldn't have told us that they did.
Why were you talking to me about the white council's ward and outer defenses when it was just spell magic that prevents them from blowing it up. The protections Dresden is talking about to get into the building or wards that were required Godlike strength to pass what Dragon Paradox says there is just Enchanted Rock.
Just rocks with magic on them not the Wards god dammit you're right it wasn't that deep I just got completely lead the wrong way and that's why I was confused in the first place my bad these Wizards are definitely going to blow this place up if they don't meet any resistance simply because they don't even have to contest the wards they just have to counter spell the rock until they can just break it apart.
I'm still going to finish writing that Ward primer because I've already got in a good start on it and I'm liking how it's coming along, but this was nonsense from start to finish the wards that keep out Gods have nothing to do with the Enchanted Rock strength under the castle Jesus.
@Degorium@BoredMan how about you both dismiss it and just accept the disagreement? You guys can't seem to convince each other so how about you both calm down?
The wards that prevent unauthorized entrance are very, very powerful, they are also directed outwards. A ward is not like a wall, it is specific to a certain circumstance.
Why were you talking to me about the white council's ward and outer defenses when it was just spell magic that prevents them from blowing it up. The protections Dresden is talking about to get into the building or wards that were required Godlike strength to pass what Dragon Paradox says there is just Enchanted Rock.
Just rocks with magic on them not the Wards god dammit you're right it wasn't that deep I just got completely lead the wrong way and that's why I was confused in the first place my bad these Wizards are definitely going to blow this place up if they don't meet any resistance simply because they don't even have to contest the wards they just have to counter spell the rock until they can just break it apart.
I'm still going to finish writing that Ward primer because I've already got in a good start on it and I'm liking how it's coming along, but this was nonsense from start to finish the wards that keep out Gods have nothing to do with the Enchanted Rock strength under the castle Jesus.
Ramirez made it out of that evening alive. He had four broken ribs and two dislocated shoulders, but he came through. With Butters's help, I was able to get him, Luccio, and Morgan back to my place. At some point in the evening, Butters had taken off his drum and let Morgan take over the drumming duties while he tried to help Luccio, and as a result her wound hadn't been quite as fatal as she had thought it would be.
They were far too badly hurt to stay at my place, though, and Senior Council member "Injun Joe" Listens-to-Wind himself showed up with half a dozen more stay-at-home wizards who knew something about medicine and healing to move them to a more secure location. "Just don't get it," Morgan was telling Listens-to-Wind. "All of these things happening at once. It can't be a coincidence."
"It wasn't," I heard myself say.
Morgan looked at me. The resentment in his eyes hadn't changed, but there was something else there that hadn't been before-dare I hope it, some modicum of respect.
"Think about it," I said. "All those heavy vampire attacks just when Cowl and his buddies most needed the White Council not to be involved."
"Are you saying that you think Cowl was using the vampires as a tool?" Morgan asked.
"I think they had a deal," I said. "The vampires throw their first major offensive at the right time to let Cowl pull off this Darkhallow." "But what do they get out of it?" Morgan asked.
I glanced at Listens-to-Wind and said, "The Senior Council."
"Impossible," Morgan said. "By that time, they had to know that the Senior Council was back at Edinburgh. The defenses there have been built over thousands of years. It would take…" Morgan paused, frowning.
I finished the sentence for him. "It would take a god to break through them and kill the Senior Council."
Morgan stared at me for a long time, but didn't say anything. It wasn't long before they left, pulling out the wounded Wardens and leaving.
There's a thing when talking about defenses in aggregate the wards almost certainly have to be a near deciding factor in that strength verdict otherwise that doesn't make any sense. Simply because we've seen the defenses on the inside of the white Council headquarters with the whole Peabody situation and there's nowhere near, anywhere near enough defensive strength to qualify for the rest of that statement.
The wards that prevent unauthorized entrance are very, very powerful, they are also directed outwards. A ward is not like a wall, it is specific to a certain circumstance.
There's a thing when talking about defenses in aggregate the wards almost certainly have to be a near deciding factor in that strength verdict otherwise that doesn't make any sense. Simply because we've seen the defenses on the inside of the white Council headquarters with the whole Peabody situation and there's nowhere near, anywhere near enough defensive strength to qualify for the rest of that statement.
Just going to note that the wards that prevent unauthorized entrance are not supposed to be the net sum of the magical defences around Edinburgh.
See for example, Demonreach, the only other fortification we have seen active, where when the defences are active, things are in layers. There's shields to prevent you even getting to the island. Then if you get to the island, the real fun starts, like the ground beginning to eat you, or a tree picking you up and flinging you a distance.
And thats just what we've seen; there are defensive secrets that have never been activated according to Dresden.
Thats why getting an authorized person to where the controls are supposed to be is critical.
Even if all Ebenezar does is turn on the local equivalent of the public-address system.
Just going to note that the wards that prevent unauthorized entrance are not supposed to be the net sum of the magical defences around Edinburgh.
See for example, Demonreach, the only other fortification we have seen active, where when the defences are active, things are in layers. There's shields to prevent you even getting to the island. Then if you get to the island, the real fun starts, like the ground beginning to eat you, or a tree picking you up and flinging you a distance.
And thats just what we've seen; there are defensive secrets that have never been activated according to Dresden.
Thats why getting an authorized person to where the controls are supposed to be is critical.
Even if all Ebenezar does is turn on the local equivalent of the public-address system.
True, but by design and necessity defenses are for the most part directed outwards. Sabotage is easier than a frontal assault, that is true for all defenses in general, which is why one tries to avoid being put in the position the Council is in right now.
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on Sep 18, 2024 at 2:55 AM, finished with 130 posts and 12 votes.
[X] Plan Divide and Conquer -[X] Split up, you and the Circle look for the source of the tremors the wizards try to find more of the Senior Council --[X] Molly, McCoy, Carlos, Tiffany, 1 War Weaver and A combat Sorcerer head to the Senior Council Chamber ---[X] Molly: All Things Betray: 1 WP ---[X] Molly: Rage Recast No Cost ---[X] Tiffany: Lore of Flesh 3(Perception) + Lore of Awareness 3(if necessary): 0 --[X] Morgan, Sophia, Harry, Lydia, Olivia, 4 War Weavers, 2 combat Sorcerers and the 2 Hand agents look for the source of the tremors ---[X] Sophia: Secret of Gaia + Sense The Unnatural: 1WP -[X] Stunt: You let out a sigh as you feel the tension of their enemies' plan already in action "Peabody is literally trying to tear down the walls of the Council headquarters and he certainly wants to stop us from getting the Defense Specialist in the form of Merlin" You say as the shadows around darken and the walls begin to tell the secrets of this ancient fortress "We have to split up or even if we get the Senior Council, the entire White Council will be homeless."
[X] Head right for the Senior Council Chambers -[X]Molly: All Things Betray: 1m -[X]Tiffany: Lore of Flesh 3(Perception) + Lore of Awareness 3(if necessary): 0 -[X]Sophia: Secret of Gaia + Sense The Unnatural: 1WP
@uju32 you have a good point, especially with those last quotes, but my problem is walking with everyone together when most of our companions do nothing when together with the most powerful ones (McCoy, Molly, Morgan), which is not wrong because they have more capabilities to affect things, but I feel bad with our war robots, veteran Warden and Lydia doing nothing behind us when they could be sent to stop/delay those seismic tremors we feel.
If most of our companions do nothing we wouldnt have brought them.
They cover our backs, protect us against ambush, hold prisoners that we capture, and principally soak the opposition's mooks so we can focus on the important stuff. If you remember Vegas, thats why we brought 20x troops with us into the caves.
We literally just stopped to vote specifically about sending two(!) War Weavers back to secure the Antonio prisoner, because that would have cost us soldiers and we dont have that many here.
Splitting the party now literally is pointing a shotgun at our own legs and pulling the trigger.
Please, look at what you are voting for. Our entire war party is roughly 20x people
Molly + Sophia + Tiffany + Lydia + Olivia + Carlos + Harry = 7
Sanctuary Fireteam = 10 (-2 at the gym, I think, leaving 8)
Morgan and his crew = 4 wizards
McCoy
Of that number, the thing you are voting for is sending Molly with only 5x people as backup to the Senior Council chambers.
Do you not see how mad that is?
Do you not think this place will be defended by the bad guys?
For reference, there are at least 49 wizards actively involved in the conspiracy, not counting the people we've captured or killed.
There were at least 7 of them in Edinburgh.
And Im not counting mind-controlled thralls or people who were deceived. Or summons.
Which, speaking of which, Molly is the only person here who can permakill Outsiders. Even Sophia cant do it.
Any group without Molly gets railed if they run into a sixpack of mistwraiths, or a Walker, in these tunnels.
And we know that Peabody canonically carried at least one with him.
Wards A Primer
To the Best of My understanding open to QM Interpretation and ruling. Dresden Files(Examples and Explanation).
A ward is a magic defense set up by a magic user. There are a variety of different ones, ranging from killing to detection to stopping hostile magic. More powerful wards are difficult to make without a threshold. It is possible though to make a strong ward if there is a strong enough power source like a ley line.[2]
The only known way for enemies to get passed this ward is to set the entire building on fire.
In Dresden files there are examples of wards being used to reflect hostile Magics to detect and stop vampires and ghosts but not to reinforce the buildings they are on even corpse taker particularly defending their own territory does not use Wards to reinforce the building they are in.
They exist primarily to prevent their inhabitants from meeting harm in the first place there are a multitude of examples of detection, deflection and consequence wards that inflict penalties on people being on the inside of them that are not supposed to be there.
The most prominent example are the wards protecting the Harry Dresden's apartment, which appear to be organized in a double layer. The first layer is permanent and would do unknown damage to a trespasser without an amulet or the skill to get through. The second layer is more like a panic room. It seals off the apartment making entry and exit impossible.
Joseph Talbot
However, his precautions did ultimately play a role in saving his family, as Harry Dresden was able to use the fence as a circle of power to create a defensive barrier against the creatures threatening the family.
Vampire Specific
In Summer Knight, the Wardens shared blueprints for newly developed wards — particularly effective against vampires — with members of the White Council.
Spirit Specific
In Death Masks, Bob returned from his info-hunt badly hurt by wards at John Marcone's estate.[6] It turns out that Gard did the wards. She is Marcone's newest security consultant.
Ghost Specific
In Ghost Story, Harry Dresden's ghost was bounced off a ward on Karrin Murphy's home nearly identical to his own. Karrin Murphy came out to investigate what triggered the ward. Dresden takes a closer look and saw a piecemeal sort of barrier instead of a solid wall. If some pieces were knocked out the rest of it would stand making it easier to repair. Dresden likened its appearance to LEGOS.[8]Abby proudly claimed that she and the Ordo Lebes—Chicago's branch of the Paranet—built the wards around Murphy's house. It took 300 people from the Paranet working together in less than a day and two hundred pizzas.[9]
Corpsetaker as the Grey Ghost had built a complex arrangement of wards around her stronghold hidden within "quazimagical" script that looked nonsensical. So, when Dresden's ghost led a troop of Mortimer Lindquist's ghosts, including Sir Stuart Winchester, to rescue him they could not enter and were forced to go through her fortifications in the Nevernever.
Mage the Ascension & Sorcerer Revised (A Wizard's & Talents Wards)
The mage sets the ward onto either a threshold or a surface. A threshold provides the line beyond which "You shall not pass," while a surface involves a given thing (a rock, a step, a fog, and so forth) that bears the ward.
You cannot set a ward onto both a threshold and a surface – it must be one or the other. In both cases, the ward begins at the line of the threshold (like the outer edge of a pentacle) or the edge of that surface (like the surface of a pool, a wall, or a protected dog's fur).
Costs
• Each ward costs a minimum of one point of Quintessence, plus one additional point for each objective – see Warding Against Objectives, below.
• Permanent wards cost the usual amount plus one point of Quintessence for every Sphere involved. A temporary ward against three objectives, then, costs four Quintessence; a permanent one costs that much plus one additional Quintessence for each Sphere involved
in that ward.
• By adding three additional successes to the ward, the mage may add one yard to the distance between the warded surface and the substance it has been warded against. At that point, the protection extends about three feet from the ward itself. Each three additional successes adds another three feet to that distance.
• Major Wards cost the usual cost + one additional Quintessence point per Sphere involved. Permanent major wards cost the usual cost + two Quintessence points for each Sphere involved.
Ward Types
• Correspondence 2 simply establishes a mage's influence within a small area. As described under the Correspondence Sphere entry in Mage 20, this Minor Ward Effect "thickens" the space, and – when combined with other Spheres as described below – allows that mage
to influence "objectives" within that area. While that won't actually block anyone from entering or leaving the area, it affects their ability to work within it. (See Warding Against Objectives and Minor Wards, below.)
• Correspondence 4 establishes an actual ward; that ward however, must be combined with other Spheres in order to effectively "set the bars" against the objective of that ward. Forces wards against elemental energies, Life wards against living organisms, and so on as described below under Major Wards.
Remember that any spell that combines Correspondence with other Spheres must employ at least one dot in Correspondence for every dot in the highest other Sphere involved. Correspondence 4/ Forces 4, Yes; Correspondence 2/ Forces 4, no.
(Dresden's double layered 'Wards' uses some mechanism probably Forces because that's his main thing to deal damage if they come in unannounced and the second uses matter two or three to shut doors and lock down a place if something manages to push past the first one.)
Locking the Ward
Wards are often "locked" into a given object, being, or area. This process integrates the ward into the Pattern of that protected thing:
• Forces 3 allows the ward to "transmute" the elemental energies enough so that the mage may integrate a ward into sources of fire and electricity, and into gadgets that employ those energies. Given the ephemeral nature of certain elements, however, wards cannot be "set" into air, light, radiation, temperature, and so forth – there's simply not enough "solidity" to lock such elements into something as "fixed" as a ward.
(Shadows and darkness, being the absence of light, hold a weird sort of middle-ground in that equation; darkness is not an "element" in itself, but shadows and darkness hold long traditional associations with demarcation, and so wards "stick" to them even though they really shouldn't be able to do so.) Vast areas require Forces 4 or 5
• Matter 2 sets that ward into a particular item, a substance, or a material (like floorboards or a door) that can secure that ward to an area. Matter 3+ can integrate it into a complex material objects (computer, car, TV, etc.
• Life 4 can integrate that ward into a living being, so that it travels with that creature. In the latter case, the forbidden subject cannot touch the protected creature until it overcomes the ward.
• If the ward is supposed to be able to travel around and retain its protective properties, then it also requires Prime 2 and costs one additional point of Quintessence.
Ward Duration and Expanse
Wards can be temporary, permanent, or circumstantial:
• A temporary ward – that is, a ward that lasts for the usual Duration of an Effect – requires the usual Arete roll for an Effect of the appropriate Rank. To find that Duration, check the Base Damage and Duration chart (504 Mage: The Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition)
Again, this ward costs one point of Quintessence, plus one additional point per objective.
• A permanent ward takes 10 successes, plus the usual one success per objective. It also requires one point of Quintessence for the ward, one point per objective, and one Quintessence point per Sphere involved in the ward. A permanent ward that locks out fire, steel, and insects, for example, would demand 13 successes and eight Quintessence points (one point for the ward, plus one point each for fire, steel, insects,
Correspondence, Forces, Life, and Matter).
• A circumstantial ward adds Time 4, plus an event that will trigger the activation of the ward. This sort of ward works only once, but it endures until that event comes to pass. Trigger event examples include When a red-haired girl opens this door, When the ghost of my father-in-law appears, or When the demon Moliax tries to grab my ass. This type of ward costs only one point of Quintessence, plus one point per objective.
Sorcerer Duration
● One Turn
●● Three Turns
●●● One Scene
●●●● One Day
●●●●● One Story
●●●●●● Permanent(?)
Warding Against Objects / Phenomenon / Class of Entity
By adding various Spheres to Correspondence, the mage impedes certain energies, forces, or beings when they cross the border of the ward and enter the protected space. In game-terms, we'll call those targets objectives: things that the ward is meant to impede. Think of it this way: When you set a ward against a given thing, then impeding that thing within the protected space is the objective of your ward. (From the Latin obiectum, "thing put
before the mind.")
Each individual objective costs one success and point of Quintessence, per objective, to block. A ward, then, that blocks out steel, insects, and ghosts would demand three successes and three points of Quintessence in order to ward against the three objectives.
Every type of thing that a ward is constructed to block is a separate objective. Steel would be one objective, insects would be one objective, and ghosts would be one objective. A single character would be an objective if that ward is meant to keep him out. Assuming that Dresden set up a ward against Mobsters, Mobsters would be the objective of his ward; if Dresden wants to block John Marcone only, then John Marcone would be the objective of that ward.
Against Misfortune
Entropy 2 or 3, when integrated into a ward, can shift probability in the mage's favor within the warded area, essentially by blocking out the odds toward misfortune.
Against Elements and Forces
Forces 3 sets the ward to block certain types of elemental energy: fire, air, electricity, light and sound spectrums, and so forth. Wards against really potent elements, like intense radiation and explosive nuclear forces, require Forces 5.
Warding a place against a nuclear blast would demand Correspondence 5/ Forces 5/ Matter 5, thanks to the titanic energies unleashed. Still, Forces 3 can make a ward airtight, which comes in especially handy when that portal's on one side of a hard vacuum or (when combined with Matter 2) water.
Against Living things/Individuals
Life 3 blocks a certain class of living thing: mammals, insects, fish, human beings, etc. Life 4/ Mind 4allows the ward to discern types of people within a given class (Mormons, liberals, Mobsters, White Council.).
Life 4 sets the ward against a specific living individual. To do the latter, though, the warding mage needs a sample of the forbidden character's Pattern: a lock of hair, drop of blood, DNA sample, whatever suits the mage and his warding spell.
Against Materials
Matter 2 can block simple homogenous substances (steel, glass, marble, water, etc.). Matter 3 can block most complex material objects (guns, cars, etc.); and Matter 4 blocks complicated artificial materials (robots, computers, etc.)
Against Mind or Mindset
Mind 2 can send "bad vibes" to trespassers, while Mind 3 or Life 3/ Mind 3 can give them a psychic shock if they try to pass the ward. Mind 4 allows the ward to "choose" certain individuals, mindsets, moods, or belief-systems, and then impede people with those mental constructs if and when they pass into the ward's protected space.
Against Time
Time 5 may be used to redirect the flow of time on one side of the ward. (That was one hell of a warlock).
Against Spirits
Spirit 4 sets the ward to block ephemeral entities.
Minor (Wizard) Wards & Sorcerer Wards
Other than being able to Ban entities all sorcerer Ward function as minor(Mage\Wizard) wards.
A very basic precaution, the minor ward requires Correspondence 2 and Prime 2, with either Life 2 (to hinder living things) or Spirit 2 (to hinder spirits). Like all wards, the minor ward costs one point of Quintessence to establish the protection, and one point of Quintessence for each objective that gets hindered by that ward.
This spell impedes its target in small ways, and although the entity won't be blocked or harmed directly, its ability to act against the mage is severely limited. For the duration of the Effect, each success from the mage subtracts one success from anything the entity does to affect that mage.(Sorcerer) Warding Strength Each dot causes the subject to lose one die from all actions against the sorcerer.
Minor Area Wards
A minor area ward uses Correspondence 2, Mind 2, Prime 2, plus perhaps Entropy 2 (to shift probabilities); Life 2 (to deter living things); Matter 2 (to deter non-living invaders);
Spirit 2 (to discourage Umbral intrusion); Time 2 (to guard against temporal trespassing); or a combination of them all.
The mage casts this on a specific location, in order to drive trespassers away or inspire "residents" to stay put. As with the Minor Ward described above, each success subtracts one success from an intruder's dice rolls within the area of the ward.
Meanwhile, a Mind-based impulse (fueled with Prime) radiates a KEEP OUT (or STAY IN) command. Although this impulse isn't strong enough to be actual mind-control(Wizard Wards) (it can be made that strong, however, by using Correspondence 4/ Mind 4), (Warlock wards) and the ward doesn't actually block anything from entering or leaving, it discourages intruders from coming in, or trapped parties from wanting out.
Finally the Big stuff Major Wards
A variety of major wards allow powerful mages to influence, protect, or seal areas and entities for long periods of time, invoking a number of potent Effects upon those who trespass against the borders of the ward in question.
To the Pain
An expensive optional addition to wards inflicts pain upon trespassing characters/Objectives. Prohibited objectives may enter the space, but will suffer any of a Myriad of Punishment Psychic Blast(Mind3)/ Lightning Strike,Fire Ball, Gravity Collapse/(Force 3/Prime 2),Flesh Melt(Life 3) and Many many more.
The ward inflicts one attack per Quintessence point spent upon that ward; if it's got 10 Quintessence invested into it, then the ward will blast trespassers up to 10 times before the ward needs to be refueled with more Primal Energy.
(Leyline access is really good for this)
Bans
The most basic form of major ward, a Ban demands Correspondence 4, plus Life 3 or 4 (to ban living things, as described above); Prime 2 or 4 (to invest the energy into the ward); and/ or Spirit 4 (Umbral entities); plus at least five successes on a vulgar magick roll (with or without witnesses, depending upon who's present at the time).(Probably not just a normal roll in quest).
If she also wants to Ban a particular spirit-entity (the demon Bufonite, for instance, as opposed to all demons), then the magus also needs a True Name or some other artifact of the summoned entity (a Fetter, a sigil, an object or creature associated with that
spirit, etc.) that she uses to "bind" the spirit's power.
If that individual is a mortal (like John Courage, as opposed to all human beings), then the mage still needs at least one item from that person's personal life, plus the addition of Mind 4 in order to discern that person from among all other people. Spirits, being composed of unique spiritual essence, need no such distinction, Spirit 4 alone is enough to discern one entity from another.
Throughout the Duration of that spell, the Ban prevents the entity from touching the summoner, and from using its powers or weapons against her directly. An angry spirit could not shoot the mage, but may control someone or something else to attack the summoner – the Ban won't protect against indirect, third-party assaults. (Sorcerers can use a Ban Equivalent at Warding Strength 3).
Co-Occupational Wards
Most often, wards either give off a "repulsor field" that deflects the objective, or else inflicts an impediment upon the objective as described throughout the various Major Wards
entries.
A Master mage, however, could use Correspondence 5 instead of 4, and then define that ward so that the warded object and its objective occupy different "levels" of the same
space, passing through one another without affecting one another, as objects do when co-located by Correspondence 5.
Yes, this looks suspicious as hell, and yes it's vulgar. If Dresden chooses to make his Beetle co-occupational, and a Mobster tries to grab it, then the muscle's hand passes right through the Car.
Until and unless that Man in Black manages to counter the ward, he can snatch at the door but never truly touch it. Everything else, however, interacts with the car normally. Gee, how frustrating such a ward must be…
The Psychic Wards
By incorporating the Mind Sphere into a ward, a mage can send out disconcerting emotions and subconscious impulses; blast trespassers with painful shocks;muddle the thinking of hostile parties; and even "change the mind" of someone within the presence of that ward.(Warlock Fodder in a lot of ways)
Suggestion of Unease
As mentioned earlier, Mind 2 implants a vague mood of discomfort, or simply pushes a suggestion that There's nothing here to see – move along now. Most people, when faced with such impulses, avoid the area under protection from the ward.
Psychic Pain
Mind 3, when connected to a ward, can stab the offending party with an invisible knife of psychic pain. If and when the trespasser crosses into the area of the ward, she suffers an
immediate bashing-damage attack. The caster's Arete provides the dice pool for this attack, and 6 – or the target's Willpower, whichever is highest – is the difficulty.
An especially ugly ward could add Life 3/ Mind 3 to the ward, dishing out an aggravated-damage.
Sensory Stunning
A far more subtle psychic ward uses Mind 3 to scramble the thoughts of trespassing characters. This assault works like the previous attack, except that it requires Mind 3, uses the defender's Willpower as the difficulty, and stuns the target if the number of successes equals or exceeds her Willpower. Each success over the target's Willpower stuns that character for one turn. The afflicted character can move if attacked, but loses one dice for each success.
Once the stunning effect ends, the target can act normally again… though probably with one hell of a headache. The ward floods the trespasser with a literally stunning rush of conflicting sensations and impressions. Many mages use such safeguards to protect their homes and strongholds, and then take advantage of the stunning effect by hitting the trespasser when he's down.
Change of Mind
A potent psychic ward can incorporate Mind 4 in order to turn people's minds around when they pass into the protected space. In this case, however, the trespasser simply suffers an Effect that was built into the ward during its creation; the mage who created the ward cannot control the trespasser from a distance, but merely determines what a trespasser will think when he enters the protected space.
Let's say, as an example, that Horace Shaw has cast this powerful ward on his favorite hideout. A trespassing character who falls under the ward's influence sees an empty room instead of the furniture that's actually present… or suddenly starts thinking that mass murder is a great idea… or takes his clothes off and starts dancing madly in the center of the room… or… or… or… Again, an affected character can try to resist the influence of this ward. A mage who's powerful enough to establish such protections, though, is going to be pretty hard to resist.
Mind-Barring
A similar Mind 4 variation allows the mage to forbid individual minds from crossing the ward. Essentially, the mage sets the ward to bar certain people,based upon that person's mental imprint.
Each barred individual, however, counts as a separate objective; if Dresden wants to ban Gard, Thomas, and Marcone, then Dresden must spend three points of Quintessence to ban those three individuals from his space.
If the mage has never read a given person's mind before the ward is set, then she cannot bar that person from entering. If she has read it before then, however, then she "programs" that mental "fingerprint" into the ward. If the person matching that imprint encounters the ward, then the Mind Effect reads his mind, sends out a strong mental impulse, and "deflects" his mind from entering that warded space.
The trespasser can try to resist that compulsion, as described above, but if he doesn't
manage to do so, then he will not enter that protected space. A mage whose concept of "identity" is more based on spiritual inclinations than on mental consciousness could use
Spirit 4 instead of, or in addition to, Mind 4.
If she's trying to ward the space against intensely and intrinsically spiritual beings (werecreatures, Umbral entities, and so forth), then the Spirit Sphere component would be essential.
Mood-Barring
A related ward, also based upon Mind 4, impedes people based upon a given "state of mind": sadness, grief, joy, lust,and so on. Essentially, the ward pushes away people who don't have the right state of mind to enter the space.
This ward could be set either to deflect people who do have the state of mind in questions, or else to deflect everyone who does not have it. A temple, for example, could be warded to drive away skeptics,or to allow only people with the proper amount of reverence for that temples and its gods.
Like the Mind-Barring ward above, this ward could incorporate Spirit 4 in addition to, or as well as, Mind 4. Also like that ward, this one lasts the normal Duration of time unless
Time 4 has been added or the ward has been made permanent.
Finally A direct Law breaker with no Question The Time Ward
Perhaps the most esoteric ward of all seals out time itself. On one side of the portal, time moves normally; on the other, time moves differently with regards to a traveler until that character passes through the portal again.
This phenomenon "holds time" until the traveler steps back across the threshold of the
gate. While he's on one side, he continues to move normally in relation to the time-flow on that side, and the other side seems to stop; when he crosses over, the original destination at least appears to be in more or less the same moment he left behind.
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on Sep 18, 2024 at 9:37 AM, finished with 135 posts and 13 votes.
[X] Plan Divide and Conquer -[X] Split up, you and the Circle look for the source of the tremors the wizards try to find more of the Senior Council --[X] Molly, McCoy, Carlos, Tiffany, 1 War Weaver and A combat Sorcerer head to the Senior Council Chamber ---[X] Molly: All Things Betray: 1 WP ---[X] Molly: Rage Recast No Cost ---[X] Tiffany: Lore of Flesh 3(Perception) + Lore of Awareness 3(if necessary): 0 --[X] Morgan, Sophia, Harry, Lydia, Olivia, 4 War Weavers, 2 combat Sorcerers and the 2 Hand agents look for the source of the tremors ---[X] Sophia: Secret of Gaia + Sense The Unnatural: 1WP -[X] Stunt: You let out a sigh as you feel the tension of their enemies' plan already in action "Peabody is literally trying to tear down the walls of the Council headquarters and he certainly wants to stop us from getting the Defense Specialist in the form of Merlin" You say as the shadows around darken and the walls begin to tell the secrets of this ancient fortress "We have to split up or even if we get the Senior Council, the entire White Council will be homeless."
[X] Head right for the Senior Council Chambers -[X]Molly: All Things Betray: 1m -[X]Tiffany: Lore of Flesh 3(Perception) + Lore of Awareness 3(if necessary): 0 -[X]Sophia: Secret of Gaia + Sense The Unnatural: 1WP
*Squint*
You don't have any other place to keep your brain. Your forced to keep it there. This is entirely different. An organization that has existed for over 1000 years with global reach is going to have critical assets in more than one place. I don't think it's reasonable to believe that they'd have every egg in one basket like your saying.
I really don't think your taking into account that they made do without this place for many many years and have more than likely lost bases over said years when they were less established. This place isn't the White Council it's a matter of convenience and strategic asset due to its location. Though those who have only ever known the WC after they made this place their main headquarters would probably feel differently ill admit.
Thats not right. It was Morgan getting blamed for Aleron LaFortier's assassination and his relationship with Merlin that had them on edge. Peabody getting exposed is what tipped it over. That hasn't happened here.
They're making use of the place at present but they've made do with others for all those same purposes before the HH was bought. The Hidden Halls isn't the White Council.
Merlin didn't make this place, it was bought. Before then common sense would dictate that they had other headquarters and that Merlin enhanced them. They're using this one right now.
You're missing the point I'm making. The sticker price of the building is not the only value it has.
The material loss is important, but consider my Cold War example again. Objectively DC is into really important in two ways; leadership infrastructure and political symbolism.
In the case of a war there were and are significant fallback locations for all the practical roles it fills because the feds aren't complete idiots all the time. That doesn't mean people would shrug off losing it.
The impact would change based on context; the Canadians/Brits kicking our asses and burning down the White House made us shut up, but it didn't shatter the country.
The US in the Cold War was a very different place, and the pressures in my hypothetical would place it under significant strain.
The council is under significant strain in all the wrong places. They don't just need to survive this, they need to crush it. The symbolic loss of their capital being obliterated is the sort of thing to cause a death spiral under these conditions.
I think you're severely discounting the fact the people are not perfectly rational and dispassionate actors. This is the kind of thing that encourages your enemies to act, your allies to hesitate, and your people to lose faith in their leaders.
You are focusing on real estate instead of people.
I put it to you those are the wrong set of priorities. Nobody is going to be particularly impressed that you own an empty fortress if you do so at the cost of all the people necessary to actually hold it.
I am focusing on people; I'm just focusing on how they might think and feel over a head count.
I'm not suggesting that keeping the fortress and losing the senior council would be better, I'm saying that losing the fortress is a blow to the existence of their nation because it compounds the attack on the fundamental narrative it tells itself to an excessive degree.
I can't be the only one who sees the narrative presented to people by this right?
The council hunts warlocks all around the world but appoints them to high office in its own halls. The council calls you to stand at their side and fight for their ideals, but stepping forward gets you twisted into breaking them. The council claims it can protect you, but at the heart of its power could not protect itself.
This kind of thing is very important to how people react to events.
One thing that hasn't been answered for me yet is the question of can anyone in this building survive it falling on them. On some level that is what is at risk there's been no reassurance that they aren't going to be able to break the building by the time we get to the senior Council it won't matter if we get there because we'll subsequently be buried in literally tons of rubble.
The building was literally shaking from explosions when we got here so it's not like they're making slow progress on that front. What good can possibly come of people attempting to blow up the building that you have to enter being unharassed in the attempt.
Divide and conquer does not attempt to abandon the people in charge of the wards and the council it just tries not to let the people that are actively destroying the building all of those things are in not do that completely unimpeded.
It just screams optimism in the worst way to just assume that getting to the senior Council will somehow magically make this all okay despite people magically attempting to blow up the building in the bottom of it. I don't get it I really do not get it.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Sep 18, 2024 at 12:42 PM, finished with 140 posts and 15 votes.
[X] Plan Divide and Conquer -[X] Split up, you and the Circle look for the source of the tremors the wizards try to find more of the Senior Council --[X] Molly, McCoy, Carlos, Tiffany, 1 War Weaver and A combat Sorcerer head to the Senior Council Chamber ---[X] Molly: All Things Betray: 1 WP ---[X] Molly: Rage Recast No Cost ---[X] Tiffany: Lore of Flesh 3(Perception) + Lore of Awareness 3(if necessary): 0 --[X] Morgan, Sophia, Harry, Lydia, Olivia, 4 War Weavers, 2 combat Sorcerers and the 2 Hand agents look for the source of the tremors ---[X] Sophia: Secret of Gaia + Sense The Unnatural: 1WP -[X] Stunt: You let out a sigh as you feel the tension of their enemies' plan already in action "Peabody is literally trying to tear down the walls of the Council headquarters and he certainly wants to stop us from getting the Defense Specialist in the form of Merlin" You say as the shadows around darken and the walls begin to tell the secrets of this ancient fortress "We have to split up or even if we get the Senior Council, the entire White Council will be homeless."
[X] Head right for the Senior Council Chambers -[X]Molly: All Things Betray: 1m -[X]Tiffany: Lore of Flesh 3(Perception) + Lore of Awareness 3(if necessary): 0 -[X]Sophia: Secret of Gaia + Sense The Unnatural: 1WP
[X] Head right for the Senior Council Chambers -[X]Molly: All Things Betray: 1m -[X]Tiffany: Lore of Flesh 3(Perception) + Lore of Awareness 3(if necessary): 0 -[X]Sophia: Secret of Gaia + Sense The Unnatural: 1W
One thing that hasn't been answered for me yet is the question of can anyone in this building survive it falling on them. On some level that is what is at risk there's been no reassurance that they aren't going to be able to break the building by the time we get to the senior Council it won't matter if we get there because we'll subsequently be buried in literally tons of rubble.
The building was literally shaking from explosions when we got here so it's not like they're making slow progress on that front. What good can possibly come of people attempting to blow up the building that you have to enter being unharassed in the attempt.
Divide and conquer does not attempt to abandon the people in charge of the wards and the council it just tries not to let the people that are actively destroying the building all of those things are in not do that completely unimpeded.
It just screams optimism in the worst way to just assume that getting to the senior Council will somehow magically make this all okay despite people magically attempting to blow up the building in the bottom of it. I don't get it I really do not get it.
Really? And how exactly did you expect to do anything about it?
What happens when they run into defenses that they cant actually hack?
Peabody had at least one mistwraith in canon. Deathstone-infused, insta-death touch, undamageable, gaseous form.
It took the combined Senior Council, all seven wizards, to get rid of the mistwraith in canon. Not kill it, or fight it, just hold and banish it. There were five hundred other wizards there, they couldnt do shit to it. In fact, it killed 50 of them.
Nobody here has the firepower to besides Molly. Not Morgan, not McCoy, not the fire team.
If they run into the mistwraith, the most likely sequence of events is that Sophia dies trying to buy everyone else time to run away. And thats if they're lucky; the mistwraith got what looked like multiple actions per turn in canon.
I find it frustrating to have to explain that performatively sending people into danger is not actually effective at solving the problem and just gets people killed.
That there are valid reasons to wait for support instead of trying to rush shit.
Decrying "optimism" when you just tossed a bunch of people who do not have poison resistance or Exalted counterspelling support against a mob of enemy wizards and allies and thralls with unknown capabilities.
Thats...aggravating.
Really? And how exactly did you expect to do anything about it?
What happens when they run into defenses that they cant actually hack?
Peabody had at least one mistwraith in canon. Deathstone-infused, insta-death touch, undamageable, gaseous form.
It took the combined Senior Council, all seven wizards, to get rid of the mistwraith in canon. Not kill it, or fight it, just hold and banish it. There were five hundred other wizards there, they couldnt do shit to it. In fact, it killed 50 of them.
Nobody here has the firepower to besides Molly. Not Morgan, not McCoy, not the fire team.
If they run into the mistwraith, the most likely sequence of events is that Sophia dies trying to buy everyone else time to run away. And thats if they're lucky; the mistwraith got what looked like multiple actions per turn in canon.
I find it frustrating to have to explain that performatively sending people into danger is not actually effective at solving the problem and just gets people killed.
That there are valid reasons to wait for support instead of trying to rush shit.
Decrying "optimism" when you just tossed a bunch of people who do not have poison resistance or Exalted counterspelling support against a mob of enemy wizards.
Thats...aggravating.
Okay that still doesn't answer the question what the fuck was their presence here going to do to stop the building from collapsing it was shaking when we got here. No one in this goddamn building can survive it falling on them. Why do you think leaving people with explosives in the bottom of it is a good idea in any universe. It doesn't matter how many Wizards are anywhere in this place if it fucking Falls.
The Mistfeinds not wraith those are from mistborn Chronicles are not Outsiders they're nevernever spirit things they are covered in mordite they can all be destroyed by any wizard with a forced spell like they were in Canon.
You are actively catastrophizing an already dangerous situation by overestimating the danger of a particular wizard while ignoring the clear and present danger of a collapse killing most of the senior counsel killing all the people in this building possibly killing us and everyone that we bought with us if we just ignore the fact that a castle made of stone is having its foundations blown apart are you crazy.
Edit, continue: this also is before the fact that we are still trying to get to the council the plan is to still get to the council it's just not to let the building fall down while we do that Peabody and the Mistfiends are almost certainly going to be there as when he released them they ran wild they're not actually domesticated in any way.
They can't be patrolling the building which is before to say we don't actually have an obligation to speedrun or perfectly protect members of the white Council if some of them die that's fine because we are not God and it's fine.
Crystals shine with a cold light onto the faces of men and the shells of War Weavers, they glitter in the eyes of a Shadow-Made-Flesh, they shake with growing tremors like the footsteps of a giant approaching. "I know it's not good tactics to split up when there's a fight ahead of us all, but I fear that if we don't stop that the fight won't matter."
"The wards will hold, they're old and strong," Carlos insists and Harry nods, probably thinking of Demonreach, but Lady Marguerite and oddly enough Morgan look a lot more doubtful about the whole thing. You can hear his breath grow just a little faster among the dripping of the water.
"They'll hold unless the bastards found a way around them. They were made by great wizards, but even the first Merlin wasn't perfect and given what's on the other side what's Outside...." His shrug has more fatalism to it than you'd like, but now's not the time to worry about it.
"Soph, can you find the source of..."
"On it," she says before you can even finish. "Left and down, way down. Things are going to get hot and not the fun kind."
In spite of everything, the peril and the treason Harry blushes, it's almost comforting in a way.
"Good luck."
The greater portion of the company heads off then following Sophia's lead on the reasoning that the worst of the traitors will be there. Even if they had found some way to subvert or overcome the wards it can't have been easy and they must have prepared for a challenge from other wizards at least. This isn't subtle.
So why haven't the senior council reacted yet? you ask yourself, rushing down steps that had been built half a millennia and more ago, not wanting to think of the worst. The others' footsteps soon vanish down a side tunnel while you, Carlos and Tiffany escort McCoy with a single War Weaver bringing up the rear, both because the Sutra is second only to you in being able to take a hit and that it's most likely to worry any defenders who might be confused or mislead rather than subverted.
"We need to get to the Warden Barracks, we will either find one or more of the Senior Council there organizing a defense or we will find it occupied by traitors or under siege in which case we need to clear it up to get to the Residential Hall, they'll be holed up inside if they are in the Halls at all," McCoy explains speaking quickly.
For his part Carlos looks horrified at the idea that the Halls could have been breached to this extent, but... Tremors come again, echoes of nothing but your own steps and voices hurled forward into the crystal-lit air, only the sound of water dripping.
Something's not right...
You raise a hand to stop the others and focus on senses sharpened to where you can count the drops of water falling by sound alone around the corner. Too regular you realize, it repeats, like a disk on replay.
Thinking quickly you sign your hand in front of your face. Veil.
"Stay back," McCoy speaks and his voice echoes with calm certainty, not a bit of hurry. "Wizard McCoy I am, myself whole and hale leading these folk so vow I by my power. If you are friends show yourselves and know that these are friends of the Council. If you aren't say your prayers."
"Sir is that..." a young voice calls, cut off by a horrible gurgle then a scream.
As you run around the corner you are hit with the smell of fresh blood first then the sound of a scuffle a pair of young wizards about of an age with Carlos are struggling with creatures around their wrists that look like they had taken all the worst features of a leech, a snake and a moray eel. One of the things had gone for the throat and... managed it. Tiffany might be able to save the man, but not much else, the woman meanwhile was still trying to fight it, to keep it off her.
Before you can help, before you can take one more step towards them, there's a flash of light further on in the tunnels blinding-bright, illuminating five figures, one of which seems to be some sort of crude golem, though that's not the focus of your attention, given what the wizard in the back is shouting.
"They got Yuki and Phil, trap's a bust! Shoot!"
The golem you now realize contains a red-haired woman, the same principle as a Sanctuary exoskeleton only it compensates with superior magical might what it lacks in technological support.
What do you do?
[] Try to incapacitate as many as you can as quickly as you can, let McCoy and Carlos handle the counter-spelling
[] Help weather the barrage of spells
[] Kill the leech things so Tiffany can hopefully save both the wardens being attacked
[] Write in
OOC: And we are off to a pretty good start, you did not fall into the ambush thanks to supernatural perception and good rolls. Still there are two people dying on the floor at your feet and five wizards about to blast you in the confines of a narrow tunnel.
Great, more blue-on-blue. Someone triggered their traps in those Wardens at just the right time to make it seem like we're the bad guys, or maybe they went off on a trigger and that one wizard who accused us is compromised. Either way, not great.
