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Traveller, The Rise of Empire: A Naval Design, Procurement and Command Quest

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Magnificate said:
More ideas? Basically, we don't rush into the trial to allow for proper investigations and we maintain cooperation with the Junta until their role in the incident can be verified.
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I rather like the idea of setting up our own naval intelligence service, though it needs a kind of fancy name so the Council can't accuse us of setting up our own spy network or secret police. Something like "Advanced Reconnaissance and Intelligence Service" or ARIS (pronounced Ares) that sounds harmless enough we can get it rubberstamped as something under command of the Admiralty- actually that's something we've not heard mention of any rank higher than Captain so far if I recall correctly. I mean like I feel like something like Operation Bowshot would have a rear admiral taking fleet command over the Monitor or Supply Ship.

Do we actually have Admirals? A fleet command? Or at least some sort of higher naval command that isn't our captains answering directly to the Home Military?
 
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Maxin_inc said:
I rather like the idea of setting up our own naval intelligence service, though it needs a kind of fancy name so the Council can't accuse us of setting up our own spy network or secret police.
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We'll vote on the name, I assume.
Halfshadows said:
We still do not have an answer for why the PMCS Indefatigable crossed the demarcation line and refused to respond to hails.
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We don't have confirmation that line was crossed. However, the question itself is valid.
Halfshadows said:
With the Indefatigable crossing the demarcation line, the Junta is the aggressor we likely would have backed them in the following war.
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Good point. However, notice it is unclear whether the Dynasts spotted the asteroid ship before the nukes flew.
Halfshadows said:
But my gut feeling is that something fishy is going on, this whole situation only benefits the Junta and is suicidality detrimental to the Dynasts.
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Yeah, the motivations of Dynasts are weird. Their situation improved after our arrival and even with HSWS favouring the Junta, we're not Home's government. The Dynasts weren't out of options.
 
[ ] Operation COSMIC DUST
-[ ] Consolidate extant military intelligence departments into a formal Intelligence Branch, whose staff can monitor political goings-on at home and abroad, and offer forewarning of any such tragedy as this occurring again.
--[ ] While fires on the ground are still hot and burning, deploy the marines of the HSWS Caturix to the surface. Wearing full NBC gear, they are to land at the (likely destroyed) Chambrestrong capital and attempt to recover surviving internal documents from the ruins of government buildings.
-[ ] Endorse a multinational tribunal at Armistice Station for trial of the Chambrestrong loyalists, with justices from the PMC, the states of S'Taxu-4, and Home. Lines of questioning to be raised at the tribunal should include...
--[ ] Questioning the crew of the HSWS Sakumo about the conditions on S'Taxu-4 as of late. Were there preceding tensions?
--[ ] Asking the PMC for what reason PMCS Indefatigable breached the demarcation line to the inner system.
--[ ] Questioning the Chambrestrong loyalists to clarify their actions during the exchange.
--[ ] Inquiring after the nuclear-armed orbital stations manned by HSWS personnel. What were their actions during the crisis? Do any survive? What were the corresponding actions of the Dynast personnel?
-[ ] Contact surviving Cassalonian and Xyphonite authorities to coordinate a humanitarian aid mission using both FFS's and any available Interstellar Conveyors.

Same things everybody else seems to want, but with my own spin on it. :tongue:
Posting with blank [ ]'s first to garner feedback.
 
Doubloon said:
Posting with blank [ ]'s first to garner feedback.
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If I read this right, the main difference between this plan and Investigation and Tribunals is that we don't conduct an investigation before the trial and instead use the trial itself to find the truth? I think we ought to be investigating regardless of whether and when the trial begins.

The other difference is using the marines to search for clues, which I'm not opposed to including in Investigation and Tribunals if players want it.
 
Magnificate said:
We don't have confirmation that line was crossed. However, the question itself is valid.
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If they didn't see Junta ships crossing the demarcation line then their actions make even less sense, if no ships crossed the line why fire the nukes at all? Besides given the transmission they sent I think they saw it.
4WheelSword said:
"Tally that, Pallas, thank-you. One of their big boys is rolling in."
"Think the Dynasts have spotted it yet?"
"I guess we'll see in the next couple hours. Stand ready."
-- A delay of several hours is logged.
"Pallas, Sakumo, sending recorded Dynast traffic, please advise"
-- Recording plays 'All you scut-merchants and cowards, you sailors in your pretty uniforms and your ugly ships, you wanted peace and you had it and you've thrown it away. Now you will see the error of your ways, now you will live with the consequences of your actions!"
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Maxin_inc said:
To be honest it's a good idea as long as we can do so without cutting the lives of our Marines in half from radiation exposure.
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Sure, I can make it conditional. Do we overall want it?
Halfshadows said:
If they didn't see Junta ships crossing the demarcation line then their actions make even less sense, if no ships crossed the line why fire the nukes at all? Besides given the transmission they sent I think they saw it.
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If they saw the asteroid ship, why haven't either their leaders or some line officers contacted our cruisers and said something to the effect of, "please tell them off or otherwise deal with this incident"?
 
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Rat King said:
If it's a false flag it's a damn thorough one to compromise multiple orbital stations and ground launchers.
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Nah, ground launches wouldn't be too difficult. All that is required would be to rebuild the surface launchers in the areas not occupied by the Dynasts. Besides, that quote is from HWSW Sakumo that is under Junta's care at the moment, so it's not impossible this report itself is doctored.
 
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Magnificate said:
Nah, ground launches wouldn't be too difficult. All that is required would be to rebuild the surface launchers in the areas not occupied by the Dynasts. Besides, that quote is from HWSW Sakumo that is under Junta's care at the moment, so it's not impossible this report itself is doctored.
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The update is presented as third person omniscient (or limited perspective) narration, not a recording, so I'm gonna doubt that.

Pinniped said:
Well, the stations and launchers do not need to be compromised at all if someone knew the launch codes and sent false orders to the launchers.
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If the PMC was able to effectively compromise the Dynast's launch codes that's a pretty catastrophic failure.
 
Magnificate said:
How would the Junta know the Dynast codes though? Hmmm... We did integrate some of their personel into HSWS, it's possible the information was gathered from our watchdogs, but it sounds a bit far-fetched.
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I doubt our watchdogs knew the actual launch codes, they're not there to turn the keys, just to make sure no one pulls the trigger without a good reason IIRC.
 
Rat King said:
If it's a false flag it's a damn thorough one to compromise multiple orbital stations and ground launchers.
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Its not that hard in theory at least. Depending on what the layout is like in the control room and the number of people on shift, one man with a pistol could take the control room quickly before anyone notices. They would just needs a predetermined signal to know when to take action.

If I remember right in the peace deal we had the stations be manned with watchdogs not just from us but from the Junta and other factions in S'taxu, this would make infiltration a bit easier.

Pinniped said:
Well, the stations and launchers do not need to be compromised at all if someone knew the launch codes and sent false orders to the launchers.
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If the procedure to launch nukes is anything like it is IRL you don't actually need the launch codes. The launch codes are just to confirm the order to fire is genuine and they change daily, it would be simpler and easier to just compromise stations than fake an order to fire.
 
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Halfshadows said:
Its not that hard in theory at least. Depending on what the layout is like in the control room and the number of people on shift, one man with a pistol could take the control room quickly before anyone notices. They would just needs a predetermined signal to know when to take action.

If I remember right in the peace deal we had the stations be manned with watchdogs not just from us but from the Junta and other factions in S'taxu, this would make infiltration a bit easier.
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If they're anything like missile silos, I have to imagine they have fail-safes in place to prevent one person from nuking everything.
 
Rat King said:
If the PMC was able to effectively compromise the Dynast's launch codes that's a pretty catastrophic failure.
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I mean... Everything is nuked. Any false-flag scenario is a catastrophic failure on the Dynasts part for allowing this to happen. It's less false flag and more using the Dynast's own nukes to nuke the Dynasts.
Magnificate said:
How would the Junta know the Dynast codes though?
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If the Junta is behind this, they obviously must have infiltrated the Dynasts somehow. Propably they could not have done this without a high-ranking traitor within the Dynasts.

Actually, speaking of traitors, as part of looking for answers we should check if any of the high-ranking Dynasts are conspiciously missing or getting soft treatment by the Junta.
 
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In my mind the fact that the Sakumo left the engagement so heavily damaged even after swatting down most of the incoming missiles means further ship designs need a higher point defense blanket as well as us focusing a higher production on the PD frigates. 4Wheel said in the discord that an equivalent vessel would have been firing 48 missiles a turn, not 18 like was being fired at the Sakumo.
 
Maxin_inc said:
In my mind the fact that the Sakumo left the engagement so heavily damaged even after swatting down most of the incoming missiles means further ship designs need a higher point defense blanket as well as us focusing a higher production on the PD frigates. 4Wheel said in the discord that an equivalent vessel would have been firing 48 missiles a turn, not 18 like was being fired at the Sakumo.
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To be fair, our Cruisers are specced for combat at long range and here the Sakumo was blindsided at short range. But I agree we should build 2-3 PD frigates per cruiser in order to migitate damage from fighters and missile barrages.
 
Magnificate said:
Yeah, the motivations of Dynasts are weird. Their situation improved after our arrival and even with HSWS favouring the Junta, we're not Home's government. The Dynasts weren't out of options.
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Speaking frankly, the authoritarian sides who formerly had absolute power in civil wars and wars of occupation rarely act rationally. See, for example, the Nazi plan to burn and blast Paris more or less out of spite when it became clear their hold on the city was not tenable, or the 1911 Burning of Cork.
 
Coyote Niff said:
Speaking frankly, the authoritarian sides who formerly had absolute power in civil wars and wars of occupation rarely act rationally. See, for example, the Nazi plan to burn and blast Paris more or less out of spite when it became clear their hold on the city was not tenable, or the 1911 Burning of Cork.
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Yeah but frankly if they were going to launch nukes it would have been after they lost that continent right before we arrived not after the situation started to improve. And since one of the representative factions is literally a Communist reign of terror who's notable trait was mass production of fictional crimes all attributed to the Dynasts, that the other planet based faction notable trait is a willingness to use the weapons it possess, which by the way include, Mobile ICBMs, and that the Junta ship entering the Inner System is what appears to the first visible sign something was going down. That all leads me to believe the representative factions started this whole situation including the nuclear exchange.
 
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