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Traveller, The Rise of Empire: A Naval Design, Procurement and Command Quest

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4WheelSword said:
The power plant can get a bit bigger, but i'm concerned bout what it would power. The only larger energy weapons is a particle beam, and we could probably fit a bay but that's not a laser.
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After opposing the idea during the last vote, now having seen the design I actually would not be opposed to adding a particle beam bay. It would allow the ship to fight better in its own weight class, which could be useful. It still could not and should not fight larger military vessels, but having more punching power would not hurt. Especially if said particle beam could be used to demolish "larger small craft" in the 50-100 ton range, which could perhaps otherwise take a few laser hits.
Pinniped said:
That said, can this ship dock with other ships in space or enter planetary orbits? Ship-to-ship docking capability at least would be highly desireable for a patrol craft role.
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@4WheelSword , can you comment on this? Any patrol ship should be able to dock with other ships in space for customs inspections, rescue operations and the like. Can either of the proposed designs do that? Can something to give that capability be added?
 
Yeah, I definitely think 40tons is going to cripple it when it comes to being a fighter. Perhaps we should re-focus that design on being a Bomber. I think a Fighter should remain within the 10-30 ton range to ensure it can achieve max speed and also only require 1 person to fly it.
 
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Pinniped said:
I was not thinking about crew comforts, but about using the weight for something useful for patrol missions. Maybe of allowing it to carry marines/space border guards or to provide medical care in border areas? It's going to be our smallest, fastest jump-capable ship, so letting it be used as a "space ambulance" would not be a terrible idea in my opinion.
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Hmmm... OK, an emergency room for one or two people might not be out of place, but marines would require a shuttle bay to deploy and there's no room for that, so I don't think it's the best idea.
4WheelSword said:
The power plant can get a bit bigger, but i'm concerned bout what it would power. The only larger energy weapons is a particle beam, and we could probably fit a bay but that's not a laser.
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I was thinking back to Beam Lasers but those are just turret-mounted. In that case, a particle barbette or two wouldn't be out of place. Nothing too heavy, just something to indicate that the ship has a main weapon.
WallFly said:
Interstellar Interdiction Frigate/Sloop?
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Not a bad idea.
 
I prefer the missile frigate and would rather have it over Bearings design. Bearings design can't do much more than swat small craft and the PMCA design can do that whioe still maintaining an anti-ship punch. The Bearing ship is just... not good and a waste of pilots.
 
Rat King said:
I prefer the missile frigate and would rather have it over Bearings design. Bearings design can't do much more than swat small craft and the PMCA design can do that whioe still maintaining an anti-ship punch. The Bearing ship is just... not good and a waste of pilots.
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Is your main issue with Bearings the lack of punching power? Would you be ok with it if we add a particle cannon/missile bay?

I think we can work out a compromise, I really like the Bearings design for the improved speed and PD capability. Don't underestimate the speed, being faster than the opposition can make up for a lot of deficencies.

Honestly a combination ship with the Bearings lasers and engines, and the missiles from the PMCA design might be the best here. Could we just combine both designs and have both Bearings and PMCA build it?
 
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Wiadi said:
did the Dynasts have any remaining independent access to orbital missile platforms? My understanding was that the peace deal left us operating those, but I'd like to confirm.
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They were shared, with HSWS crews operating as watchdogs.

Pinniped said:
can you comment on this? Any patrol ship should be able to dock with other ships in space for customs inspections, rescue operations and the like. Can either of the proposed designs do that? Can something to give that capability be added?
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Both have airlocks, neither has the ability to force a boarding. I can add that before it's finalised.
 
Pinniped said:
Is your main issue with Bearings the lack of punching power? Would you be ok with it if we add a particle cannon/missile bay?

I think we can work out a compromise, I really like the Bearings design for the improved speed and PD capability. Don't underestimate the speed, being faster than the opposition can make up for a lot of deficencies.

Honestly a combination ship with the Bearings lasers and engines, and the missiles from the PMCA design might be the best here. Could we just combine both designs and have both Bearings and PMCA build it?
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I just think the Bearing is a weak little ship and tweaking the design won't really help it; I'd rather have the missile vessel honestly, speed or not. It also works better as a cheap ship - the Bearing already costs almost 190 MCr, adding particle barbette will bump it up a bit more and if we want to have more of these the PMCA craft is affordable and does the job.

I wouldn't be opposed to to asking Bearing and PMCA to collaborate on a combined design, but from cost and firepower standpoint the PMCA design already looks like it wins out.
 
Rat King said:
I wouldn't be opposed to to asking Bearing and PMCA to collaborate on a combined design, but from cost and firepower standpoint the PMCA design already looks like it wins out.
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The problem with PMCA is politics. War just erupted in S'taxu, so using their design is questionable. Plus, remember that this ship exists mainly to serve as point defense platform. All other roles, such a patrolling or fighting with ships, are secondary. That said, we'll want to take some cues from PMCA and add a main weapon.
 
PMCA design is the way to go IMHO. Bearing is comfy which I like but the fact that it is noted as barely being able to punch below its own weight class concerns me.
 
@4WheelSword, would something like this be acceptable?

[ ] The BMF Sloop with caveats
-[ ] Replace the library and biosphere with an infirmary and emergency low berths

Emergency Low Berths are 'crash cryo'. The main thought is that not even the monitor has any real dedicated medical facilities. If we put them on our fastest and most maneuverable ship, then it can also double as an S&R for after combat actions/peacetime.

Edit:
To all those saying the speed is not that big a deal, M-6 allows the ship to switch from the front of a formation to the rear essentially in the time it is made aware of incoming threats, while not slowing the formation as a whole.
 
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I'd rather go for this:
[ ] The BMF Sloop with modifications
-[ ] Remove the library and biosphere. Add a Particle Beam barbette, upscale the power plant as needed. Add an infirmary and emergency low berths. If weight is an issue, replace staterooms for the lower ranking crew with shared rooms.

This allows the ship to fight better in its weight class and at long range, as well as utterly demolish any slow small craft. I chose a Particle Beam Barbette over Missiles purely due to tonnage limitations.
 
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Would it be feasible to put an M-6 on the PMCA? Might not have the tonnage.

With regards to S'Taxu I am somewhar reluctant to say "sure send the monitor" when if things get dicey on the jump in it will be stuck. Also not quite sure if we light to send everything, but....

Also on the crew accommodations the staterooms are much better for longer term deployments in terms of crew comfort.

EDIT: after reviewing tonnage etc we can squeeze an M-6 into th PMCA craft, swap the barbette's for a missile bay and probably get a fourth laser turret.
 
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Rat King said:
With regards to S'Taxu I am somewhar reluctant to say "sure send the monitor" when if things get dicey on the jump in it will be stuck. Also not quite sure if we light to send everything, but....
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It was purpose-built for situations such as the one we're dealing with now. We've got an FSS, so unless we jump in the middle of an ongoing battle, the refuelling can happen before the Monitor engages. I think it's safer than just sending the ICs, since these might take casualties if forced to fight bigger targets alone.

That said, we do want the Monitor back in Home as soon as the threat is neutralized, since Aslan finding and taking a swipe at Xyri remains a risk.

[X] Operation Tempest's End
-[X] Sending a force to ensure peace is re-established in S'Taxu. What ships?
--[X] 1x Monitor, 5x IC, 1x FSS, 1x DSS
---[X] FSS remains in S'taxu until the Monitor can be safely refuelled and basic intel about the war can be received from HSWS Sakumo or gathered. It then jumps back to Home with news.
---[X] Primary objective is remove threats to S'Taxu-4. Secondary objectives is link up with HSWS Sakumo and assess the scale of the damage to S'Taxu-4 to prepare for the relief effort. Tertiary objective is to prevent S'taxu yards from being destroyed.
-[X] The BMF Sloop
--[X] With modifications. Remove the biosphere & libraries. Add a particle barbette and upscale the power plant as needed. If able, add a small infirmary and some emergency low berths. If able, add drop tanks to provide for 2+2 range.
 
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[X]OPLAN: Bowshot
-[X] Sending a force to ensure peace is re-established in S'Taxu. What ships?
--[X] 1x Monitor, 4x IC, 1x FSS, 1x DSS
---[X] FSS to ensure monitor can refuel, then return to Home with data and intelligence. DSS to act as courier vessel between S'Taxu and home as needs dictate.
---[X] Objective is secure the orbitals, our watchdog crews, and ensure S'Taxu-4 is safe, as well as (re)-opening dialogue with the PMCA and ensuring our political partner (PMCA) remains in position to continue to assist. Reunite with HSWS Sakumo and ensure the safety of the crew (or any survivors if the worst has happened).

Include diplomatic staff on one of the more comfortable cruisers to ensure talks, if needed, can begin at once.

Begin relief efforts on S'Taxu-4 if needed.
-[X] The PMCA Missile Bombardment Vessel
--[X] With modifications: if possible upgrade to M-6 drive; replace barbettes with missile bay; add fourth turret (sandcaster). Spare tonnage should be used for sandcaster munitions, missile munitions, and crew comfort.
 
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[X]OPLAN: Bowshot

I don't think the Dynast were the one firing the nukes, "We have detected multiple missile launches against the surface and ourselves." Why would they start shooting at their own orbital platforms. Given how quickly they gave up full control of the orbital nukes in the peace deal makes me think the nuclear dead man switch was probably a lie by the Peoples Military Council or a bluff by the Dynast to stop the PMC from invading.

Either way the peace deal is looking like a way for the PMC to buy time to prepare for this offensive rather than a genuine offer of peace. I think we will probably need to be on the lookout for raids into Home by PMC.

I like the PMCA Frigate it cheap, has some offensive capability, and meets our demand for point defence. The new political situation does complicate thing but worse come to worse we could just do what the PLA did IRL with the Soviet BMP-1, shamelessly steal the design and rename it.
 
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Halfshadows said:
Given how quickly they gave up full control of the orbital nukes in the peace deal makes me think the nuclear dead man switch was probably a lie by the Peoples Military Council or a bluff by the Dynast to stop the PMC from invading.
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If that was the case, our watchdogs would've noticed and reported on it.
Halfshadows said:
Either way the peace deal is looking like a way for the PMC to buy time to prepare for this offensive rather than a genuine offer of peace.
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That's not impossible, but attacking a stronger opponent doesn't seem probable in their case. What's there to gain for them? At the moment, I'm guessing a rogue actor escalated the war.
 
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