What should your focus for the rest of the Quest be?


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Honestly all this religious stuff is just leaving me confused and I have no real interest in the details of it all. So I'll just skip this vote I am not one for deep theological history and how it was used here personally.

Like I can respect the effort that went into the Droman creed that it was designed to have this happen like well done there, but beyond that this deep religious stuff just bores me. So yeah I'll be back when all this is done with.
 
Honestly all this religious stuff is just leaving me confused and I have no real interest in the details of it all. So I'll just skip this vote I am not one for deep theological history and how it was used here personally.

Like I can respect the effort that went into the Droman creed that it was designed to have this happen like well done there, but beyond that this deep religious stuff just bores me. So yeah I'll be back when all this is done with.
Yes yes, I get it.

We are a bunch of NEEEERRRRRRDDDDDSSSSS.
 
I think the solution to these heresies is to incorporate them both as valid interpretations and use this opportunity to make the faith of the Star Child more tolerant and less dogmatic.
 
Particularists and Anti-Particularists seem to mostly just be people naturally trying to understand the paradox of the five aspects of the starchild rather than accepting that it is not something humans can easily understand. Fortuantly, I think we don't have to care to much about laypeople just getting it wrong so long as we can keep this out of the priesthood.
 
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Honestly, yeah - 50% of the population being technically heretics makes perfect sense. I mean, look at real life - even before you get into how every religion splinters into different groups, adherents of any given faith will very often hold doctrinal positions that go against the "official" position of their group - often, without even realizing it!


View: https://www.tumblr.com/prokopetz/740323677598597120/while-i-wont-pretend-to-understand-his-reasoning?source=share


Basically, this can be addressed by including a few religious studies classes in everyone's education.
 
The Heresies of the Particularists and Anti-Particularists are, without doubt, or compare, the singular most devious and deep-rooted within the Glimmering Federation, if not outright actions of memetic psykery. Both planets whose blasphemy laws are laxer and stricter experience these two heresies on a regular basis from every level of society and faith.

Be it infosphere forums where people develop the Particularist Heresy from first principles through lax theological discussions veering off due to oversimplifications that take roots within the minds of the posters, or overzealous priests and faithful trying to correct those mistakes before it is too late by using words and preachings that inevitably turn their congregations or listeners into Anti-Particularists, both heresies spawn again and again.
Uhhhh, what? WHAT? memetic psykery? Doesn't this just sound much worst then the other ones?

Further muddling the efforts of the righteous in stomping out these heresies is their ability to spread quickly through society when not encountered by the learned or the well-informed layperson, with members of those heresies often unable to effectively point out differences between the Droman Creed and their own, believing them to be one and the same. Likewise, efforts to educate people on the differences have come to crash, again and again, against the wall of sloth and ignorance, with many sects going undetected by the sheer fact that such theological differences prove of no impact on the day-to-day for most people, most do not care enough to report those holding these beliefs.

Unlike the other major Heresies, the Roses, Syncretists, Divine Lines, and Cogs, all efforts that could be taken before one needs to apply the flamer, the melta, and the bolter have been used throughout the history of the Federation...with some events proving that not even those tools are enough to stamp them out in full.

The Order of Cerberus estimates that at least 50% of the Federation's population holds to either the Particularists or Anti-Particularists or associates with them. While this has not yet caused any large-scale issues, an enemy at the gates often distracts people as anything else; lower-case chaos like war may be the bolt that breaks the ship.
OH, they can't explain their position or how it works in their version which starts to make the foundation of a doctrinal split like the Catholic church did. Though seems we let them lie after we correct them since this is 50 percent of the population are one of the two or knows people that follow them.

The idea that the end result of all of this is that Orthodoxy becomes more common in the Federation (y'know, more 60 or 70 than 50) but that neither Heresy disappear forever... but that Voxx Primus by the policy of making sure heresy isn't spread via missionaries, becomes the most Orthodox of all possible planets in the Droman Creed is... so fucking funny to me.

I want this to happen so much, holy shit.
Now that is fucking hilarious, biggest population that is 'pure' due to our correcting and streamlining this to be easier to explain to people and being the only one they know of. Nice irony for the history in the quest.

And thank you for the explanations about the how the various Heresies formed and to the guy who had the how the beliefs in the did start with the flow chart.

Makes a lot of sense in that people are trying to make them make sense and making Heresies unknowingly.

The first.
The Cog, lmao. :V
Wait wasn't that literally the first of the Heresies we tackled? That's hilarious, bad luck that we chose them first, never got off the ground for a more then a few turns. Then again we didn't root it out completely.... I'd like to say we solved it and in a way Chaos didn't expect and cannot use but you never know.

I like the implication that we took a Chaos Plot, said "Damn, you have a point", and essentially invented government therapy resources and career services centers to try to address the underlying bits of psychological discontent and disaffection developing within our population. Oh and we also then decided to fund research into the thing they were advocating for.

I kinda wish more Chaos Plots happened like that, assuming my understanding of the results of us addressing the Cog are correct?
Same, and I hope that's how it went. Like We took something they meant to be a trap or be implemented to leak true Heresy and corrupt only to treat the reasons people turned to it and fund research on the MMI on our terms with oversight and not like how that Heresy was trying to use it.
 
... For the vote, can we also ask our people specifically to not start fist fights over minor theological misunderstandings?

Star Child won't forbid someone from finding shelter under their wing for failing to get A+ on their theology exam.

Between our theology being a bit muddy and someone getting beat up for a priest-level error, the former is more resilient and safe.

Hell, this tolerance may be useful for some more alien species we integrate. Imagine the Star-Child-as-a-bee-on-Omnissiah-flower-with-Motive-Force-pollen heresy. Yes we need that misunderstanding fixed, but at some point peace wins over correctness.

Just a paragraph to stop at pointed words for minor things.
 
I said they aren't Chaos. I didn't say they weren't made by or for Chaos. :drevil:

I KNEW IT!

I KNEW IT WAS SOME WEIRD OFFBRAND NURGLE-FUCKERY LONG-CON!

I AM VINDICATED!

Ahem.

Anyways.

I'm fine with Laurent's suggestion. This is likely something that isn't ever going to really go away, but so long as it's treated as something we can correct via explanation in most it isn't really going to be a problem, so we can handle it with the velvet glove.
 
I KNEW IT!

I KNEW IT WAS SOME WEIRD OFFBRAND NURGLE-FUCKERY LONG-CON!

I AM VINDICATED!

Ahem.

Anyways.

I'm fine with Laurent's suggestion. This is likely something that isn't ever going to really go away, but so long as it's treated as something we can correct via explanation in most it isn't really going to be a problem, so we can handle it with the velvet glove.
Yeah, this sounds like the kind of thing that we could legalize and just have it be separate Schools of Thought on the Pentarchy since ultimately, it doesn't matter that much if people think the Omnissiah, the Star-Child, the Emperor, the Motive Force, and Body of the Faith are separate entities or all one. It's not worth sucking the Inquisition on someone and I doubt it would lead to major difference in views of policy.
 
[X] Practical Theology
-[X] These heresies are wrong, and yet it cannot be said that they are evil. What must be done is two-fold. First, there is the population at large that must be led towards wiser views. Second, and even more importantly, it is the leadership, especially religious leadership, that must be even more clear on the matter.
-[X] Create a document, introductory and ably understood by the layperson even before the education drives of the last decades, that explains the difference between Particularism, Anti-Particularism, and Orthodoxy, and allow the teaching of it further with Sunday schools or ties in with temples and so on.
-[X] Explain Particularism and state its greatest flaw: a "co-equal hierarchy" implies or can imply a segregation of persons or a support for hierarchy, held not in belief of Particularism--which is a mistake but one that should not be punished except by correction--but in the implication of the beliefs of Particularism.
--[X] It is the case that there is a (rather weak, but present) correlation between a defense of Hierarchy or an invocation of Difference, albeit within the bounds of the Federation's politics, and Particularism.
-[X] Explain Anti-Particuarlism and state its greatest flaw: a lack of uniqueness raises questions then on the existence of horizontal association, and indeed there is a (rather weak, but present) correlation between worries about free association leading to tyranny and Anti-Particularism.
--[X] Once again, most are fine, but this is an incorrect reading. Those found out are to be suggested towards educational resources and given the words of Teelin himself on the matter, spoken many centuries ago... but no more than that.
-[X] Explain the Orthodox perspective, which is that in one sense we lack the tools to obtain the knowledge that both Particularists and Anti-Particularists so confidently state. That is to say, the Orthodox position is a safe and sane compromise, because at this stage even the most learned person is not the Star Child. Knowledge should ever-advance, but the hubris to assume that because all might be known, all IS known, is a sort of heresy. Thus embrace that on this, we do not yet understand, and that if a time comes when we do it may be revisited... but that such an understanding will not be easily obtained.
-[X] These documents are to be freely and widely distributed, and are to be common material.
-[X] Similarly, teaching/educational Orders and a greater availability of education on the subject are to be taken as a given, and made more common and by using the Particularists and Anti-Particularists as too little and too much, it makes it easier to calibrate the understanding.
-[X] This educational push, combined with a convocation and a propaganda push, are not going to eliminate either heresy, but it might well defuse them and reduce the dangers and likely will decrease their overall numbers.
-[X] Emphasize again that even being wrong in this matter is something that should be answered by words and corrections, not fists. Buffeting a fellow believer with one's fists or killing them is ALSO a crime and a kind of heresy, and a rather worse one than any Particularism/Anti-Particularism alone.
-[X] Secondly, a push is made to make sure that all missionaries are Orthodox rather than Particularist and Anti-Particularist, and that the beliefs spreading on Voxx Primus and the Families are fully within the Orthodoxy, and that there is not at the highest levels any sort of mistake therein.
--[X] In a deep bit of historical irony, when combined with their experience of religion under the Imperium and the importance of believing the right things, the baffling reality is that the most fully and entirely Orthodox System in the entire Galaxy is, after these reforms are pushed... Voxx Primus.

May change this to suggestions, but posting first.
 
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[X] Practical Theology

My mind is in the clouds but I'll just assume this is fine.

The Heresy Slate is finally clear, now to hope there are some nice Benefits for clearing it that won't just become apparent in a sidebar dozens of turns later.
 
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[X] Practical Theology

Annnd heresies are done. Well, I doubt this one will have a follow-up action, anyway.

Hopefully we'll get an AP for mending all the wounds in our faith. But disarming those internal bombs is a reward in itself. We are safe. Safer, anyway.
 
[X] Practical Theology

And once again, the Faith is United (somewhat......mostly on paper, but hopefully the Star Child won't mind).

We may need to do another Voxx action next turn to make sure our rebels stay alive and don't starve, along with some more Hive prep actions. Maybe we do two Void station actions this time? Or two terraforming actions, so long as we do two of them next turn that is.
 
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