Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Did DragonParadox say that the clones do not get the passives? I am confused.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Can the clones even use Alchemy without retraining first? Pretty sure DP has said that they'd have to learn to do mortal magics the normal way, instead of cheating it with Essence like we do.
Short answer, yes they can. Long answer multiple talks dozens of replies resulting in the change from they have to learn the magic to being they just have it because of the version of the charm that we're using that doesn't just create vanilla Mortals.
I specifically checked if the write-in options were ok here. All my write-ins got approved.
Hey you still haven't cast your vote but if you want to get some back burner stuff done with The Shard or Peabody the vote you already contemplated and yog are probably the way to go.
- Location
- Brazil
I actually can't vote for Yog's plan because while I just want to protect the exaltation, he has been explicitly clear several times that he wants to release it instead and try to make circumstances to exalt some of our allies, which I'm not totally against but not now because this will absolutely be part of a long arc where we do several layers of preparations and I just want to rest for now, but also he hasn't disclosed any plans for dealing with the Abyssal exaltation that will be released immediately on the other side of the world.
Furthermore, my plan has both options of dealing with the baby wizards, which give the crown more focus on issues related to the White Council, and dealing with the traitors, as for me there would be a synergy.
So my real problem with Yog's plan is how he wants to deal with the exaltation situation. Sorry.
Last edited:
My understanding thus far is that the permanent clones get some passives, but not all of them.
But I could be wrong.
So I simply built a base clone from base Molly, and tried to keep the power levels down instead of trying to break the system.
While its entirely possible to build a end-boss tier combat monster within the rules of the source books Im using (source books being W20, W20 Book of the Wyrm, W20 Book of the Wyrm Companion)?
A Dexterity 15, Melee 5 SGI clone does not appear to fit the intent of the charm.
Hilarious as it might be.
I think they can.
Note that SGI clones cast like mortals, not like Molly Prime, which has multiple implications about the ease of use of Alchemy and other Path sorceries:
- They get no Key Abilities that allows them to ignore 1s so they can and do critfail their rolls
- They get no Excellencies to boost their dice pools for making potions and other sorcery
- They burn Willpower for each ritual
Its not as routine a process as some people appear to be portraying it, where you can take it for granted.
Especially for higher end recipes.
Last edited:
I'm pretty sure @Yog means that to be a future thing though I may be putting words in their mouth I'm pretty sure right now it's just to make sure nothing happens to us well it's still with the Sun worshipers Also I don't think they're just going to let us take it and we're not the kind of person to steal it so it's going to be there for right now. Which is to say I think if it's not under that Charm that lets the last exalted choose who the next one's going to be it's probably just going to be a protection mission set up defenses with our Arcane and crafting insights like Odin's TTVs and then get out of there.
Also you have a vote under yours to do the same task which is to say he's not alone and also a lot of people are against releasing it in the thread anyway so picking it doesn't necessarily guarantee that Yog's way will come to fruition. Let me be real with you if a plan just uses our resources I'm probably more likely to vote for it that's why I asked for prima Metallum I am absolutely loathe to spend experience and then not use the thing that you buy with said experience. Underutilizing splintered Gale and not even bothering to utilize the Alchemy makes me really want to reach out to people and get them on board with at least using the Alchemy we specifically bought counter magic potions please someone anyone use the Alchemy.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
They get ALL Passives. If you do not spend Essence to do it, they get it. Even new ones. At least that is what DragonParadox said last time that I am aware of.
This is a 5 Dot merit that allows a person to ignore 1s. So for crafter clones, this could be useful.
Charmed Existence Your unlife is somehow protected, and you do not face the perils that others must. It could be that you are simply lucky. Whatever the reason, you may ignore any "one" on every roll you make. This makes it far less likely that you will ever botch, and grants you more successes than others obtain.
I think thats for the temporary clones.
The ones that you get for free when you buy the Signature Charm version and activate Shintai.
These ones:
I am pretty sure those ones get all passives.
I dont think the QM intends to have the permanent clones get all passives.
Last edited:
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Once again, DP homeruled that the clones get all passives and mortal magics, like Sorcery and Qiao.
So it does not matter if it comes from the signature or not. They have it.
This turn is about protecting exaltation. Whatever comes later comes later. I have no illusions that we may do anything else this turn. We need it secure against attacks.
Since I'm out here campaigning would you mind adding [ ]PLAN SECURITY HOME AND ABROAD under your first vote as an approval vote it covers a lot of the same points.
That appears to be a Vampire merit from the phrasing.
Can you source this, if you dont mind?
I've spent the last 20 minutes looking in V20 Core, and it isnt there, which means that assuming its a canon merit, it has to be from an earlier book.
I dont speak for the QM.
But I think there's been a miscommunication somewhere.
@Artemis1992 @Yzarc since I'm out here campaigning for folks votes would you mind approval voting or just voting for [ ]PLAN THE ENEMY SITUATION I noticed both of you are looking for a vote to deal with the Wizards Peabody and general but don't want to deal with the solar Shard so here's a plan that does that.
Hey if you want to plan that doesn't involve poking the solar exaltation might recommend [ ]PLAN THE ENEMY SITUATION for your approval.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Do not have the exact book but it is either in the old Cores or the Camarilla book. Not sure as I was not able to track down the exact reference.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Do not think so. Here is the trail for questions where I confirmed what happens.
I then asked the question if they should or not get Mortal Magics like Qiao and Sorcery and made an argument as to why they should get it.
So DP has specifically allowed ALL Passives on Clones, even custom clones, which is also in the trail.
He allowed this as the clones can act as a Sorcerous link to us and if kidnapped (Not easily but it can happen) they are a serious danger to us.
So the charm, by base, poses a potential danger to us and probably why he buffed them up a bit.
@uju32 would you mind adding at least some of the following to your vote, since you have 6 SGI AP unassigned, and these cost us nothing:
--[][WRITE-IN INVESTIGATIONS][SGI] The stars were made to guide them: Investigate astrological systems in light of our Crown knowledge to find our what works, together with Bob: 1 SGI AP
--[][WRITE-IN INVESTIGATIONS][SGI] Little green men: you know where aliens are. Propagate that information back to SETI: 1 SGI AP
--[][WRITE-IN ARCANE ALLIES] From the pen of: Start working with Bob on your next book, "soul gazes made safer: tricks to protect your soul": 1 SGI AP
--[][WRITE-IN FAMILY TIME] [SGI] Family that crafts together: Help Michael in his mundane job: 1 SGI AP
--[][WRITE-IN ALCHEMY]: Cooking the good stuff: Produce Malcoffee, Astarte Venerian, Nabu Mercury, and Prima Metallum for yourself and your allies: 3 SGI AP
Also, again, I am willing to compromise on the either Peabody or Exaltation securing, but not both, and ok, fine, I am willing to put dealing with Charity's family back in, even though I think that's something that requires main body focus.
--[][WRITE-IN INVESTIGATIONS][SGI] The stars were made to guide them: Investigate astrological systems in light of our Crown knowledge to find our what works, together with Bob: 1 SGI AP
--[][WRITE-IN INVESTIGATIONS][SGI] Little green men: you know where aliens are. Propagate that information back to SETI: 1 SGI AP
--[][WRITE-IN ARCANE ALLIES] From the pen of: Start working with Bob on your next book, "soul gazes made safer: tricks to protect your soul": 1 SGI AP
--[][WRITE-IN FAMILY TIME] [SGI] Family that crafts together: Help Michael in his mundane job: 1 SGI AP
--[][WRITE-IN ALCHEMY]: Cooking the good stuff: Produce Malcoffee, Astarte Venerian, Nabu Mercury, and Prima Metallum for yourself and your allies: 3 SGI AP
Also, again, I am willing to compromise on the either Peabody or Exaltation securing, but not both, and ok, fine, I am willing to put dealing with Charity's family back in, even though I think that's something that requires main body focus.
Fair enough.
*tilts head*
I dont think he meant to give us the Signature charm functions as a base charm though.
On top of the fomor powers.
Which is why I think there's been a miscommunication somewhere along the line.
Either in the QM's understanding of the question, or their assessment of the implications.
Fortune 1 removes that as a consideration for 4xp, because it gives access to Death Curse.
Once the clone is dead, the body goes away.
And we have people with at least Fortune 4 available to be tutors in Sanctuary.
Not really a problem.
Certainly not one that requires a buff.
In order:
Im pretty sure astrology is explicitly not a thing in the Dresdenverse.
In Creation yes, not in the Dresden Files. Starborn is more a figure of speech than a literal stellar conjunction.
SETI is a terribad idea on general principles; we neither want nor need the exposure of being responsible for pointing them at signs of extrasolar life, and the social repercussions assuming the data is confirmed is non-trivial.
This isnt something you toss off as an aside.
Thats wizard lore. We literally learned this from a memory of an older wizard teaching a younger one. Either Dresden has holes in his education, which is plausible since it was deliberately incomplete because Justin DuMorne was a dirtbag, or they deliberately dont teach it to young wizards like Dresden anymore.
Just like they dont teach young wizards about the precog function of the Sight until they're much older, so they dont mislead themselves. And there's good reasons not to advertise that we have access to deep wizard lore.
I dont think this is a good idea.
Michael is a carpenter, though its not stated what type; he has not needed help with his job, and its not bring your daughter to work day. Molly lacks the certifications to legally be on a work site.
And there's actual good reason to give people their own space, even among a close family.
Last edited:
We can at least secure it so we don't have to worry about it being triggered. That's what the vote is about.
1) It's explicitly a thing here. We know the following:
Divination (in the sense of reading the future) is a thing, in a number of ways
"The stars were made to guide [STarborn]" - from Dresden's flashback
Exalted astrology is a thing
Even if it doesn't work, we lose nothing by trying
2) You are misreading what I am doing. "filter it back to SETI" is meant to mean "do it in a way that doesn't point to us". I'll make it clearer. And it's not going to be a huge revelation without years and years of work
3) It's a lost / super-obscure wizard lore that can bear systematization
4) Certifications are easy for us, and Michael has a workshop at home, if I recall correctly. We can help.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
What about the final suggestion from Yog's list?
Why not include this as well? IIRC, these are all XP cost reducers.
--[][WRITE-IN ALCHEMY]: Cooking the good stuff: Produce Malcoffee, Astarte Venerian, Nabu Mercury, and Prima Metallum for yourself and your allies: 3 SGI AP
1)I would appreciate the exact citation, if you can find it.
Either way, Exalted astrology is not a thing anymore. There is no Loom of Fate, and Holden explicitly says he ripped it out.
Even when it was, it was a thing for Sidereals.
Not Solaroids.
====
2) Do you remember the Heaven's Gate cult committing suicide in 1997 when Comet Haley-Bopp showed up in order to ascend to the aliens out there? Or the various scams, like Scientology, that make a killing from fleecing people's interest in aliens?
Do you remember the mass UFO sightings of the mid-Cold War era, and how they affected Western society?
Again, this is not stuff you throw out into the public sphere willy-nilly because lol.
And its frankly beyond the concerns of our game without you inserting it.
====
3) I dont agree. Harry Dresden did not know it.
That doesnt meant that senior wizards do not. Harry is a baby wizard, and he is lacking a lot of information that his elders have witheld for one reason or the other.
See my comment about the Sight having a precog function; Harry wasnt told that until the end of Small Favor, because telling a wizard about it prematurely is at best irritating as they start claiming to see prophecy all the time, and at worst can incentivize the sort of confirmation bias that gets them killed.
And we are deliberately not advertising the general breadth of our information-gathering ability.
Remember how the Big Book of Yomi Wan was literally delivered into the hands of Simon Peabody, giving him and his masters a detailed guide to Yomi Wan and revealing how much Molly knows about the place?
===
4) A professional carpenter's
This is much the same for a lot of practical trades and professions.
And Michael is a professional carpenter, not a woodworker that does woodcrafting. That suggests that he goes to worksites.
When he was crippled in Small Favor, he became an apparent construction manager/general contractor for building houses, because thats where his work experience apparently lies(most houses in the US are wood frame).
Last edited: