Sterbelicht - One Sacrifice At A Time Against The Galaxy (40K)
- Thread starter HeroCooky
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi
- Location
- ?????????
True but giving them a new market means they are inclined to like us more. Plus the trade would flow through our lands which is good for us.
Question is if 10 Choirs will actually work and if that'll mean that those Choirs will be unavailable for twice as long (30 turns)
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- ?????????
Somehow them being gone longer term is probably better? Because by 30 years they probably have been replaced and then some(especially as we are doing colony spam soon)
We are not training every psyker in the Alliance, we are training enough to give them their own psyker institution.
So I think 10 would be fine.
We kinda need @HeroCooky 's word in this. And honestly 20 Choirs aren't that big of a problem for us anyways, unless we design to surge out 9 colonies or something we'll more than likely be gaining Choirs even as we push colonization. If the average number of Choir gain per turn remains steady (though the number will only increase from now on) then we'll get 20 Choirs in 4 turns anyway.
But regardless, here:
[] Plan: Choir and Save An Action
-[] Federation will concede Yivv system and offer Choirs to train and build up the Shipwrights' psyker institution (namely teaching them navigation) in exchange for the following concessions.
--[] Try to bargain down the number of Choirs involved in the teaching mission to 10.
--[] Federation gains access to enough Arumite for study and research.
--[] Preaching rights
--[] Cultural Exchange between the Federation and the Alliance.
-[] Federation withdraws the offer to directly assist in reconstruction.
-[] Create an Official Donation Drive for the affected people of Sub-Sector 621. (No Action Cost)
The trace Arumite amounts on Tom is best used for research. It doesn't have enough for any real project otherwise.
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- Goose Land
Hmmm.
Here are some thoughts.
What are the benefits of putting two or even one step below our starting tech level on the table?
Like, outside of diplomatic hardball and miscommunications, these guys do seem actually fairly chill, and improving the lots of others helps lift the weight off everyone yeah?
So, here's a bare bones no fluff/roleplay suggestion for an exchange?
We offer:
-High Imperial++ (like, one step, maybe one step and a half below where we started)
-Giving up claims to Yivv
-Government Assistance With Rebuilding Like We Said We Were Gonna Do
-Donation Drive Offer For Our Civilian Population To Chip In
-Help Cleansing Tom
-10 Choirs Teaching In A School In Our Bordering Territory
-10 Rotating Choirs for 150 Years (so Choirs are able to come home and stuff) to help ID and Transport Psychers to the School As Well As Whatever Other Psychic Or Chaotic Bullshit Pops Up While They're On Deployment
-Defensive Military Assistance If Another Imperial (Remnant) Comes Knocking
-Trade
-Cultural Exchange
They offer:
-Shiny Tech Things We Don't Have Yet, Including That Special Compass Thing
-Shiny Psycher Things They Probably Don't Have But If They Do Then It Would Be Neat To Have On The Table
-10% to 30% of the Shiny Not!Gold With Special Properties That They Are Going To Be Mining (Tbh I'm inclined towards 10%, but if people want 30% or a third, fair enough)
-Collaborations On Ship Designs (They're a Shipyard Civ! That has to mean something!)
-Preaching Rights
-Permission For Our Scouts To Pass Through Their Systems To Check Things Out On The Other Sides Of Them (Intel Shared To Them As Well)
-Defensive Military Assistance If Another Imperial (Remnant) Comes Knocking
-Trade
-Cultural Exchange
You may notice that this is in fact lopsided towards them, by quite a bit even.
That's on purpose.
I'm thinking if we High Ball them and make it so that militarily we're both obligated to help each other out more than just if Chaos Comes Around, that'll firmly put them on the path to eventually merging with the Federation, either as a direct joining up eventually or as what would essentially be another Head if they prove themselves to be swole enough for it.
And if they don't join up and "just" become another Star Child Worshipping Civ out there that's also friendly towards us, that's not a bad thing.
Strong Allies/Friends in a hell universe like this one are worth their weight in Not!Gold, imo.
Thing is, I don't want to lock anymore actions on 621.
We have other stuff to do like colonization, heresy busting, research and a remodel for our ships. Then there's the other fronts like Voxx and the space balkans that will also need our attention.
That's why I prefer Aceraptor's plan.
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- ?????????
Yeah not exactly in the mood to do nation developing of other nations. We got our own to develop and boy howdy there is a lot to do
- Location
- United States of America, Michigan
If they don't have trained psykers and dealing with any psykers they get being chaos bombs that says to me that their "Fear the Witch, Burn the Witch!" stats are probably really high, at least for the larger population. So I feel like we're going to 'lend' choirs we're going to want to hardball a little for their protection cause I don't really trust randos in 40k (and the shipwrights are very much still randos from my point of view) taking proper care of our psykers even if the top level leadership paid for them and would much rather not have issues with us.
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- They/Them
Voxx Primus has many times the population of the entire Glimmering Federation, let alone the Alliance. If we really want to help a lot of people, we have other choices, lol. 
I personaly still think that we are "underleveled" to proparly safe Voxx, if military opposition is equal to the social one than we have less than 1/5 of resources needed and helping Alliance is easy enough to not be an issue
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
[X] Plan: Opportunity Knocks
-[X] Well, that makes a lot of sense, cards on the table, we do have an interest in the Auramite, but it's hardly existential for us, in light of your requirements, we're willing to cede Yivv to you, though we would like access to some down the line for our studies. We'll still send you the aid though, we've little desire in seeing someone who's halfway reasonable fall apart.
-[X] That being said, given the danger of Psykers and our own success at developing a functioning paradigm, we're willing to commit to establishing a school to to teach what we can. Full out sending twenty choirs into the territory of someone we just met is a bit much, but we Are willing to commit a similar number to instruction within one of our held systems in 621 if you're willing to reciprocate with any insights you and your allies hold.
--[X] In short, commit to establishing a University that deals in Psionics and Advanced Knowledge within 621, with the suggestion that we're willing to share what we know with the other parties if they reciprocate in kind. That this is also a chance to start getting some Social Engineering going on while also defusing potential Chaos resources is just an added bonus. Making it one of our systems in reach of them (And implicitly where they can keep half an eye on it) rather than deep in our territory where they might start worrying about never seeing anyone again.
-[X] Float the idea that we're not necessarily unwilling to lend out Choirs and pathfinding ships on a case by case basis in the future, but that's not exactly on the table right this second barring a major upset. A hundred and fifty years away from their people for someone we just met is a bit much.
--[X] TL;DR: Let them have the Auramite if they need it that badly, we'll leverage that unexpected withdrawal without getting petty about it to hopefully get a favorable deal that hopefully gets us access to a bit of it anyway and hopefully knocks their borders loose for our preachers. As a separate thing, offer the Psyker training they want, but hopefully leverage the goodwill gained here to retain control of the subsequent schoo and access to any tech insights on their end, in whatever form it takes. This approach will hopefully give us an avenue to start Missionary Work there, but we'll see how things pan out. If they get what they want and are still bullish, then just cut our losses. Can't preach to a brick wall.
I mean, I agree, but my opinion has been noted and considered irrelevant.
-[X] Well, that makes a lot of sense, cards on the table, we do have an interest in the Auramite, but it's hardly existential for us, in light of your requirements, we're willing to cede Yivv to you, though we would like access to some down the line for our studies. We'll still send you the aid though, we've little desire in seeing someone who's halfway reasonable fall apart.
-[X] That being said, given the danger of Psykers and our own success at developing a functioning paradigm, we're willing to commit to establishing a school to to teach what we can. Full out sending twenty choirs into the territory of someone we just met is a bit much, but we Are willing to commit a similar number to instruction within one of our held systems in 621 if you're willing to reciprocate with any insights you and your allies hold.
--[X] In short, commit to establishing a University that deals in Psionics and Advanced Knowledge within 621, with the suggestion that we're willing to share what we know with the other parties if they reciprocate in kind. That this is also a chance to start getting some Social Engineering going on while also defusing potential Chaos resources is just an added bonus. Making it one of our systems in reach of them (And implicitly where they can keep half an eye on it) rather than deep in our territory where they might start worrying about never seeing anyone again.
-[X] Float the idea that we're not necessarily unwilling to lend out Choirs and pathfinding ships on a case by case basis in the future, but that's not exactly on the table right this second barring a major upset. A hundred and fifty years away from their people for someone we just met is a bit much.
--[X] TL;DR: Let them have the Auramite if they need it that badly, we'll leverage that unexpected withdrawal without getting petty about it to hopefully get a favorable deal that hopefully gets us access to a bit of it anyway and hopefully knocks their borders loose for our preachers. As a separate thing, offer the Psyker training they want, but hopefully leverage the goodwill gained here to retain control of the subsequent schoo and access to any tech insights on their end, in whatever form it takes. This approach will hopefully give us an avenue to start Missionary Work there, but we'll see how things pan out. If they get what they want and are still bullish, then just cut our losses. Can't preach to a brick wall.
I mean, I agree, but my opinion has been noted and considered irrelevant.
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- They/Them
[X] Plan: Choir and Save An Action
-[X] Federation will concede Yivv system and offer Choirs to train and build up the Shipwrights' psyker institution (namely teaching them navigation) in exchange for the following concessions.
--[X] Try to bargain down the number of Choirs involved in the teaching mission to 10.
--[X] Federation gains access to enough Arumite for study and research.
--[X] Preaching rights
--[X] Cultural Exchange between the Federation and the Alliance.
-[X] Federation withdraws the offer to directly assist in reconstruction.
-[X] Create an Official Donation Drive for the affected people of Sub-Sector 621. (No Action Cost)
-[X] Federation will concede Yivv system and offer Choirs to train and build up the Shipwrights' psyker institution (namely teaching them navigation) in exchange for the following concessions.
--[X] Try to bargain down the number of Choirs involved in the teaching mission to 10.
--[X] Federation gains access to enough Arumite for study and research.
--[X] Preaching rights
--[X] Cultural Exchange between the Federation and the Alliance.
-[X] Federation withdraws the offer to directly assist in reconstruction.
-[X] Create an Official Donation Drive for the affected people of Sub-Sector 621. (No Action Cost)
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- ?????????
[X] Plan: Well if you want it
-[X] Okay, sure, we were of the impression that you were having a rough time and weren't in any position to handle anything like that. Sure then, you can have it, if you're doing well enough to cleanse the place and make sure they're properly cared for on top of everything else then, I don't think you need any special help getting back on your feet.
-[X] We are willing to give the system, all planets within, and will offer potential assistance/guidance/training in lieu of Choirs in the Glimmering Federation
--[X] In exchange for the compass they speak of, 1/3rd of Auramite mined, preferential trade agreements with us and the Ashan Families and for them to allow our priests to spread our faith in their lands unmolested.
-[X] Create an Official Donation Drive for the affected people of Sub-Sector 621. (No Action Cost)
-[X] TLDR: We rescind our action to aid. We give them the planet and offer training for their psykers in our lands. In exchange we get preaching rights and protections, 1/4th of Auramite mined and preferential trade for both us and Ashan. Also the compass to see what that's about
[X] Plan: Choir and Save An Action
I believe in my plan
-[X] Okay, sure, we were of the impression that you were having a rough time and weren't in any position to handle anything like that. Sure then, you can have it, if you're doing well enough to cleanse the place and make sure they're properly cared for on top of everything else then, I don't think you need any special help getting back on your feet.
-[X] We are willing to give the system, all planets within, and will offer potential assistance/guidance/training in lieu of Choirs in the Glimmering Federation
--[X] In exchange for the compass they speak of, 1/3rd of Auramite mined, preferential trade agreements with us and the Ashan Families and for them to allow our priests to spread our faith in their lands unmolested.
-[X] Create an Official Donation Drive for the affected people of Sub-Sector 621. (No Action Cost)
-[X] TLDR: We rescind our action to aid. We give them the planet and offer training for their psykers in our lands. In exchange we get preaching rights and protections, 1/4th of Auramite mined and preferential trade for both us and Ashan. Also the compass to see what that's about
[X] Plan: Choir and Save An Action
I believe in my plan
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...that's what happens when people disagree with you?
Though also honestly the worst thing we could do at this point is half-ass it to try to cause it to fail.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Yes, that's precisely why I didn't want to commit to it.
But you Insisted that we had to do it As soon as possible.
Now we're committed. You don't get to claim "Well let's just write these guys off except for the bare minimum" when you committed us to a quagmire that was grimly metastable until we started mucking with it. If you're going to go Full Paragon, you commit to the bit. You don't pick and choose who you help.
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Bullshit. I wonder why I might want to help hundreds of billions of people but think that a few billion isn't that important compared to doing actions to help those hundreds of billions.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Because we actually have the power to do something in this case, while the other side is using a bucket of water to put out a forest fire. No matter how many "Neat Tricks" you came up with to try and get everyone to think it was anything but a forlorn hope.
Look, I'm not saying it was an asshole move to make.
But it's very much trying to move a mountain with a spoon, and thinking that if your spoon is made of the best and most legendary materials, you can take bigger chunks off.
Crafter of War
The Dorf
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- Bend
[X] Plan: Opportunity Knocks
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Once again, nonsense. Just because you're being a sore loser doesn't mean you get to actively tell lies. I talked to HeroCooky, you're vastly underestimating what we can do. It's going to be a hell of an investment, but it can pay off if we keep at it.
- Location
- Goose Land
[X] Plan: Choir and Don't Save An Action
-[X] Federation will concede Yivv system and offer Choirs to train and build up the Shipwrights' psyker institution (namely teaching them navigation) in exchange for the following concessions.
--[X] Try to bargain down the number of Choirs involved in the teaching mission to 10.
--[X] Federation gains access to enough Arumite for study and research.
--[X] Preaching rights
--[X] Cultural Exchange between the Federation and the Alliance.
-[X] Federation does not withdraw the offer to directly assist in reconstruction.
-[X] Create an Official Donation Drive for the affected people of Sub-Sector 621. (No Action Cost)
-[X] Suggest potential Tech Exchanges as the next topic of diplomacy if this is not torn apart like prior settlement attempts.
I can't figure out how to phrase "Let's get some of their ship design experience to help us out", so have @The Laurent 's plan but keeping the Help Action and making potential Tech swaps (maybe including Ship Designs?) the next topic of discussion.
[X] Plan: Opportunity Knocks
-[X] Federation will concede Yivv system and offer Choirs to train and build up the Shipwrights' psyker institution (namely teaching them navigation) in exchange for the following concessions.
--[X] Try to bargain down the number of Choirs involved in the teaching mission to 10.
--[X] Federation gains access to enough Arumite for study and research.
--[X] Preaching rights
--[X] Cultural Exchange between the Federation and the Alliance.
-[X] Federation does not withdraw the offer to directly assist in reconstruction.
-[X] Create an Official Donation Drive for the affected people of Sub-Sector 621. (No Action Cost)
-[X] Suggest potential Tech Exchanges as the next topic of diplomacy if this is not torn apart like prior settlement attempts.
I can't figure out how to phrase "Let's get some of their ship design experience to help us out", so have @The Laurent 's plan but keeping the Help Action and making potential Tech swaps (maybe including Ship Designs?) the next topic of discussion.
[X] Plan: Opportunity Knocks
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
HeroCooky said "You can try", they didn't say anything about "This is definitely going to succeed in the way you expect in any reasonable period of time." Spending an action every two turns to support it for a hundred turns isn't much different than spending 50 actions to do it conventionally.
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Remember the part where I was like, "Oh, we might send a few preachers to begin doing stuff" and @HeroCooky pointed out that with a three-action investment we can send entire huge armies of experts and trained, hardened revolutionaries?
Well yes, we have to in fact keep on trying. It requires effort, rather than holding your head and declaring it's impossible when fundamentally any attempt to conquer the place from the outside is doomed to then immediately lead to self-destruction of Voxx Primus and collapse. Efforts need to be made both to bulk up the military, which we'll do once we're slightly more settled, and also continue supporting revolution. It's an investment, but... and?
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