Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Kinda weird idea, @DragonParadox but since we have effectively broken the regular systems for WoD, how about CkII/III style?

Molly can solve almost anything in front of her, so a game that is primarily concerned with the allocation of actions seems like a solution?
Also some abstraction would fix some broken combos that make encounters, social or combat, too easy.

A system in that direction could also let the Five Courts shine more than as a source of occasional reinforcements.

Edit: ALso it lets us make use of other assets, like the Film Studio, in some minor manner, instead of banishing it the realm of abstract ownership maybe.
 
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Would you believe that up to this point the main criticism I received was that the charms were too underpowered and needlessly restricted?
I did see the first few rounds of responses, but otherwise I wouldn't believe it :p
Like I mentioned, I have little knowledge of Exalted and am mostly responding based off vibes :V

This is a coup instrument as much as oath sanctification.
LOL, I see. Molly doesn't have high native Politics dots to see the implications of this Charm though, I worry she may not use it properly/with a full eye to what other people will think of this?

Infernal blah blah blah, but I worry Faction Leaders will react negatively to this Charm, or to the loyalties of people who have sealed deals through this Charm and so on.

Physical record was meant to be "printer book", "published cd disk" etc.
You need to clarify that, because what I was thinking of was "insert arbitary Red Court or Peabody secrets, keep trying until something poofs over" kind of thing: "Today I would like to see a record of Peabody's plans, let's summon it up through this Charm and hope he actually wrote that stuff down"? (And if that got nothing we know no such physical record exists)

Or was this Charm meant to replicate a portable library/non-secured collection of material through Essence?

It's a multi action charm by means of minions, and one I consider (fear to be) overpowered.
I see. It does require Molly's physical presence, so that's just gonna push the meta into attacking while Molly is not around. This would more likely be used in peer fights like the ones we just went through, and so probably not cover the use-case you want?


It's for a specific thing that is significantly less powerful than IDU or analogs.
Got it, ignore me then.

I only recall a Seven Shadow Evasion and Google got irrelevanr results. That one has a moderately onerous condition required to trigger (maybe I am recalling the wrong version of Exalted)?

Maybe key the release condition to them swearing fealty to Molly?
Not sure if Molly will be ok with that sort of thing IC though..
I wonder if you should add a X condition to release (Damage from Within/Without, Ally Rescue etc) and/or "only lasts for X days/months/hours" thing? Need to heavily discuss this with the QM and thread IMO, or this sort of thing is gonna break the narrative if you are not careful ("Time to seal literally every evil in the planet we can facepunch using this Charm goooooooo")

White God is the latter in the setting, so we are, at most, delaying stuff.
Good to know.

The second part is meant as a balance for the first, to encourage realistic death conditions.
Personally I would just totally ignore the second part, it doesn't really help here.

Also, remember the "be killed by a Knight of the Cross wielding the Sword of Love" death condition that was discussed? That is still not too difficult to set up for said Knights, and completely sidesteps your design intent.
 
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Kinda weird idea, @DragonParadox but since we have effectively broken the regular systems for WoD, how about CkII/III style?

Molly can solve almost anything in front of her, so a game that is primarily concerned with the allocation of actions seems like a solution?
Also some abstraction would fix some broken combos that make encounters, social or combat, too easy.

A system in that direction could also let the Five Courts shine more than as a source of occasional reinforcements.

Edit: ALso it lets us make use of other assets, like the Film Studio, in some minor manner, instead of banishing it the realm of abstract ownership maybe.

I mean if you guys are into it that level of abstraction can paper over a lot of concerns.
 
We can talk to people in-character. If they don't want to get boosts, that's something to be discussed.
This isnt an computer RPG and we do not get unlimited word count or unlimited AP to do whatever.
We dont spend much wordcount on routine training for much the same reason.

No. It lasts an action. So, if Peabody is doing crafting, making his magic ink for example, and we ssc him from afar, he'll lose dice on the crafting roll. Or if he's summoning something and accumulating successes, he loses dice on the action, not the turn.
Like I pointed out before, basic spirit charm provides defense or mitigation.
You could try to tap the person of power, but you have no way of knowing how much power they have available.

Why? No, serious question here - how and why? You might adjust the numbers so we can't carry aircraft carriers around, but how does this break storytelling?
I clarified a little under this post; you should have seen it.

These things are cooperative storytelling exercises between player and QM.
There's things I've seen in the books that are completely legal, and I've passed on bringing to the thread because of how they would complicate the QM's life. And our own.

You are ignoring carriage of the Ankou due to some strange (to me) hangup about what is and isn't personal transport, already demonstrated stuff like drones Lydia developed, and her ghost calling, which isn't a direct summon, but might be used this way.
Mab can seal the NeverNever against anyone going in or out. So can Ferrovax and Odin; we saw them do it to Chicago.
Mikaboshi just demonstrated the ability to contest Lydia's attempts to open a magic door.
River Shoulders can outright disrupt teleports of the Big Daddy of the Black Court.

A lot of people can contest that sort of thing.
And like I pointed out, the golems themselves are kinda shit, as per disposable units. Not terrible, but not really combat dealers.
They're just bags of 10 HP for enemies to batter through so she doesnt have to watch her back.

At least, until we max out her Familiar.
If the issue is the total carrying capacity, we can work on that. Adjust the scale, he'll, make it logarithmic. But in general I don't think bags of holding and similar items / magics break gameplay or story.
Both the carrying capacity, and the narrative implications.
Not to mention the extra ongoing bookkeeping to track inventory contents

That's your opinion, I disagree. Exaltation shards aren't to be left alone, way too dangerous. And Lydia will be getting a dog anyway, we may as well help her.
Yeah, we arent going to agree on that.
The shards have been where they are for thousands of years, they can wait a couple more months. We have put a lot of this social shit off for 8-9 months now IC, and there's few things as dangerous as ignoring your backyard to solve far-off problems.

As for Lydia, we have no control over her AP or her actions.
There's no indication she's travelling anywhere either, instead of having stuff brought to her. Like I pointed out, she's still significantly vulnerable, and after a raid on a major Power, she's not likely to be running around abroad, far from backup.

I'd like to note that Inugami were decent minions at the time this charm was created.
Brawl-dicepool like a professional, with a strong and armor-piercing bit, also a good deal tougher than humans, with more health and 4 dice of lethal soak.

I did not foresee the insane escalation of power this game would go through when making that Charm. It effectively replaces about 2 Dots of allies or retainers with free, replaceable combatants, which is not unreasonable in my eyes.
Look, thats what Exalted combat quests are like.
Im more offended by the fact that they literally do nothing else other than bite and soak damage. Whoever statted the damn things made them one-trick ponies.

That said, no that wasnt Allies 2/Retainers 2; they lack the power and skills to fit here.
2x Hounds? Thats sub-1 dot of the Backup Background.
IMO.

G'night yall.
 
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Kinda weird idea, @DragonParadox but since we have effectively broken the regular systems for WoD, how about CkII/III style?

Molly can solve almost anything in front of her, so a game that is primarily concerned with the allocation of actions seems like a solution?
Also some abstraction would fix some broken combos that make encounters, social or combat, too easy.

A system in that direction could also let the Five Courts shine more than as a source of occasional reinforcements.

Edit: ALso it lets us make use of other assets, like the Film Studio, in some minor manner, instead of banishing it the realm of abstract ownership maybe.
Personally, I am OK with anything, as long as it's fun for @DragonParadox to write and others to play. I like the exalted system, it gets some hilarious things sometimes, and I enjoy it, but I realize how it can break at the seems.
I mean if you guys are into it that level of abstraction can paper over a lot of concerns.
Anything is fine with me. I like numbers since they put some specific, well, numbers to the abstract "Molly is super good at crafting" or "Mab is very scary". They make it more possible to predict how things are going to do, and without them it might be harder to agree on stuff, and maybe harder to plan in general? Still, I like the story so far, and am here for it.
You need to clarify that, because what I was thinking of was "insert arbitary Red Court or Peabody secrets, keep trying until something poofs over" kind of thing: "Today I would like to see a record of Peabody's plans, let's summon it up through this Charm and hope he actually wrote that stuff down"? (And if that got nothing we know no such physical record exists)

Or was this Charm meant to replicate a portable library/non-secured collection of material through Essence?
Yeah, sure. I definitely didn't mean it like you read it. It's meant to be TTC but for books, and without built in comprehension, so, getting stuff like classified technical drawings of north korean nuclear missiles would be possible, but Molly wouldn't be able to read them.

I see. It does require Molly's physical presence, so that's just gonna push the meta into attacking while Molly is not around. This would more likely be used in peer fights like the ones we just went through, and so probably not cover the use-case you want?
It's primarily meant for fights when our circle mates are present. It's meant to combat heavy defensive spending, where every circle member has to have full list of all defensive charms, magics and equipment. This way they can specialize more. It's meant to make the charm buy more fun.

I only recall a Seven Shadow Evasion and Google got irrelevanr results. That one has a moderately onerous condition required to trigger (maybe I am recalling the wrong version of Exalted)?
Bloodless Murk Evasion. Sorry, got the name wrong. It's a 3 dot Kakuri charm:
Bloodless loodless Murk Evasion (•••)
The Infernal yields before the futile aggression of
her enemies, dissolving into a cold, bodiless darkness
and reforming somewhere nearby.
System: Reflexively spend 1 Essence. The attack
fails to strike the Infernal without any further dice
rolls, and she may teleport to any shadow within her
Willpower rating in yards. She may also simply use
Bloodless Murk Evasion to teleport to a shadow in the
absence of an attack. This Charm cannot be used in
direct sunlight, nor to avoid any attack enhanced by
magic designed to strike down creatures of darkness

Not sure if Molly will be ok with that sort of thing IC though..
I wonder if you should add a X condition to release (Damage from Within/Without, Ally Rescue etc) and/or "only lasts for X days/months/hours" thing? Need to heavily discuss this with the QM and thread IMO, or this sort of thing is gonna break the narrative if you are not careful ("Time to seal literally every evil in the planet we can facepunch using this Charm goooooooo")
Ally rescue is already built in. The charm leaves behind a physical anchor - an iron rod that can be destroyed relatively easily. Break that, and the prison breaks. The prison is only perfect from within.

Personally I would just totally ignore the second part, it doesn't really help here.

Also, remember the "be killed by a Knight of the Cross wielding the Sword of Love" death condition that was discussed? That is still not too difficult to set up for said Knights, and completely sidesteps your design intent.
That's true, but depends on having the knights on your side, and your targets bring evil. That's intended case use, I thought of that.
 
Still, I like the story so far, and am here for it.
That's my point kinda, to the things I've been thinking the last few days.

I like the story, I want to see it continue, but I'm not optimistic it can continue as an interesting and challenging story/quest in the current system for much longer.

Obviously I don't want to pressure @DragonParadox to change the system, if he is confident he can make this work without major changes I'd love to read that too.
But looking at just this vote, or the last turn, I'm just not really believing it. Sorry.
 
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classified technical drawings of north korean nuclear missiles would be possible, but Molly wouldn't be able to read them.
Hm, but Lash is getting Lore of Humanity 1 soon, or does that not cover what is needed to understand said diagrams?

Bloodless Murk Evasion
That one has a "sunlight" requirement, do you think that "requires more than 1 attacker"/only works on 2 people at one go is equivalent strictness?

Ally rescue is already built in.
Hm, it still does require a enemy to have said allies for it to work, so I think a time delay release might be also needed.

Then again, we could have plot points with Denarians collecting the iron rods Molly leaves behind, so maybe this might work?

Thank you for answering my many questions on your Charm set!
 
This isnt an computer RPG and we do not get unlimited word count or unlimited AP to do whatever.
We dont spend much wordcount on routine training for much the same reason.
We spend word count on school, and crafting. I plan to fold in proposals for boosts into crafting AP, it seems like a natural enough thing to do. And we consistently have training with shih.

Like I pointed out before, basic spirit charm provides defense or mitigation.
You could try to tap the person of power, but you have no way of knowing how much power they have available.
Since the charm doesn't spend resources, we'll win that.

I clarified a little under this post; you should have seen it.

These things are cooperative storytelling exercises between player and QM.
There's things I've seen in the books that are completely legal, and I've passed on bringing to the thread because of how they would complicate the QM's life. And our own.
Story wise we are already low key benefitting from this via stunts and politely ignoring some details (like how did we haul out that Malfean brass haul from Wicked City). This just makes it more defined. Maybe switch from mass to total number of items?

Hm, but Lash is getting Lore of Humanity 1 soon, or does that not cover what is needed to understand said diagrams?
Charm interactions and Circles being more than the sum of their members is the intended effect, as far as I am concerned. Exalts together strong. Solars with Sidereal advisors and dragonblooded legions are far more than just solars.

That one has a "sunlight" requirement, do you think that "requires more than 1 attacker"/only works on 2 people at one go is equivalent strictness?
I think "requires two attacks against us on one turn from two different sources" is a far more strict restriction than "cannot be done in direct sunlight or against anti-CoD attacks". It's a relatively rare situation, and part of the intended design is a multi-charm combo where we direct an EMH to attack us via proxy servant protocol on the same turn as the incoming attack. And other tricks where we Rube Goldberg the battlefield.

Hm, it still does require a enemy to have said allies for it to work, so I think a time delay release might be also needed.

Then again, we could have plot points with Denarians collecting the iron rods Molly leaves behind, so maybe this might work?
The charm is heavily patterned after the classic tale of Monkey King being sealed under a mountain for 5 hundred years. It's meant to make sealed evil in a can. The time release is the iron rod rusting through. It's on the scale of centuries, but it's there.

Thank you for answering my many questions on your Charm set!
Always glad to help.
 
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As far as I understand the problems with the Hammerspace charm it should probably have much more narrative restrictions than trying to tie them to hard numbers. Frankly, it's a problem with many WoD powers.

Something like:
-You can put small handheld items into a phone
-You can put clothing, armor and weapons into a notebook
-You can put furniture and the like into a PC
-You can put vehicles and similar stuff into a server
-You can put ships and small buildings into a supercomputer
 
As far as I understand the problems with the Hammerspace charm it should probably have much more narrative restrictions than trying to tie them to hard numbers. Frankly, it's a problem with many WoD powers.

Something like:
-You can put small handheld items into a phone
-You can put clothing, armor and weapons into a notebook
-You can put furniture and the like into a PC
-You can put vehicles and similar stuff into a server
-You can put ships and small buildings into a supercomputer
Yeah, something like that. That's basically the intent, yes. Well, with flash drives and such, but yeah, it's kinda like that.
 
God please no.

This would clash so badly with the rest of the quest it would hurt and require Dragon to wholesale create a new system for exalted in this style.
Molly is not built as a ruler first and foremost, she is built as a superhero with a kingdom. Therefore, the transition to the strategic level will have two problems. How to digitize a super unit in the person of Molly and how to digitize her as a not very good ruler in fact. Of course, there are problems with the system itself, as well as creating a big policy from scratch, but I believe in DragonParadox because he has already done this more or less successfully.

And honestly, big politics is not quite what this quest is ready for or what the Dresdenvers is good at.
 
Thinking about how the Prison/Hammerspace Charm can be used in a broken and presumably undesired way:

First Attempt:
"And now for the Order of Polishing Iron Rods/Hall of Iron Rods in Sanctuary's Labyrinth..."
(Not a problem, because if one breaks all breaks, and scattering them across the world has logistical issues with them being silently stolen - it's the Coin Problem all over again(

Second Attempt:
"And now for the kill team of Molly, Mab, Titania, Odin and Michael, fire at will after I break this rod..."

At minimum this involved a full Essence Molly in her Hell, but I think being able to scrounge up an appropriate tier team is an appropriate challenge, since people aren't made of time to help you kill things anyway.

Third Attempt:
"And now to digitise this Rod / Gate to space, wait for it to close and Gate again to interstellar region and exfiltrate through Molly's Soul..."

This might be an actual problem?

Also, it just occurred to me that RAW you can nest/recursively apply the Inventory Charm - is this intended?
It would be more inconvenient/Essence expensive, but this also works indefinitely so I'm not sure if that is a problem.
 
As far as I understand the problems with the Hammerspace charm it should probably have much more narrative restrictions than trying to tie them to hard numbers. Frankly, it's a problem with many WoD powers.

Something like:
-You can put small handheld items into a phone
-You can put clothing, armor and weapons into a notebook
-You can put furniture and the like into a PC
-You can put vehicles and similar stuff into a server
-You can put ships and small buildings into a supercomputer
Oh my god, this is just Applied Energistics from Minecraft... Molly becomes a proto Minecrafter...

I'd say we have left small adventures behind us pretty clearly.

Not sure where else to go.
Well, the big metaphysical league. Unfortunately, this is not DND and we do not have epic level adventures. And big politics requires a completely different character and approach than small politics. And the worst thing is that the setting itself is built on the basis of small events, be it battles with ancient evil or other such secrets. In many ways, this is why Molly can disrupt the canon so easily.

Ultimately, I see only a full-fledged war with the outsiders or attempts to reform the magical side of the world as worthy goals.
 
Molly is not built as a ruler first and foremost, she is built as a superhero with a kingdom. Therefore, the transition to the strategic level will have two problems. How to digitize a super unit in the person of Molly and how to digitize her as a not very good ruler in fact. Of course, there are problems with the system itself, as well as creating a big policy from scratch, but I believe in DragonParadox because he has already done this more or less successfully.

And honestly, big politics is not quite what this quest is ready for or what the Dresdenvers is good at.
In general, agreed. I am enjoying the adventures, and I'm not sure if I really want thr minute of politics. Molly is a hero-queen of old, first and foremost defender of the realm, not the economic manager and policy maker of modernity. She is the one who steals fire from the gods to bring to her people, and wrestles with the sun so the days get longer. Slayer of beasts, and tireless explorer pushing he border ever beyond. Yes, her word is law, but I think it's understood that she is the arbiter of ultimate justice, not thr day to day lawmaker.
As far as I understand the problems with the Hammerspace charm it should probably have much more narrative restrictions than trying to tie them to hard numbers. Frankly, it's a problem with many WoD powers.

Something like:
-You can put small handheld items into a phone
-You can put clothing, armor and weapons into a notebook
-You can put furniture and the like into a PC
-You can put vehicles and similar stuff into a server
-You can put ships and small buildings into a supercomputer
@DragonParadox what do you think of something like that? Would somethingmlike this be better for you? I think the intent of the charm is clear, it's the numbers that raise objections, and I perfectly understand them. I am not setting out to cheese the setting or break the gameplay or ruin the story for anyone.
As far as I understand the problems with the Hammerspace charm it should probably have much more narrative restrictions than trying to tie them to hard numbers. Frankly, it's a problem with many WoD powers.

Something like:
-You can put small handheld items into a phone
-You can put clothing, armor and weapons into a notebook
-You can put furniture and the like into a PC
-You can put vehicles and similar stuff into a server
-You can put ships and small buildings into a supercomputer
I'd say we have left small adventures behind us pretty clearly.

Not sure where else to go.
We are firmly in "grand adventures" territory, moving into "mythological epic" land.

Third Attempt:
"And now to digitise this Rod / Gate to space, wait for it to close and Gate again to interstellar region and exfiltrate through Molly's Soul..."

This might be an actual problem?
It shouldn't be, by the intent such action as digitizing it would count as breaking the rod / pillar, as it serves as an anchor/pin to reality (remove it, and the anchor is not there, and the target is released). I'll have to explain better in the text.

Also, it just occurred to me that RAW you can nest/recursively apply the Inventory Charm - is this intended?
It would be more inconvenient/Essence expensive, but this also works indefinitely so I'm not sure if that is a problem.
That wasn't an intended effect, no. I'll make that clear. At the very least the data file is magical, so it wouldn't be digitizable easily.
 
Well, the big metaphysical league. Unfortunately, this is not DND and we do not have epic level adventures. And big politics requires a completely different character and approach than small politics. And the worst thing is that the setting itself is built on the basis of small events, be it battles with ancient evil or other such secrets. In many ways, this is why Molly can disrupt the canon so easily.

We are firmly in "grand adventures" territory, moving into "mythological epic" land.
And the Grand Adventures and Ancient Evils is where we hit the mechanical limits of what can be done in WoD, and also what makes sense in the context of Dresden Files. Making something that doesn't casually annihilate Arete-4 Mage Dresden (who is already buffed by being vastly more permissive with lasting magical shields cast as reflexive actions than by-the-book Mages) in a single round but can also meaningfully challenge Molly is nearly impossible.

The fey are a cludge-job that are probably situationally to strong and too vulnerable for the story, the Senior Council would need a lot of tricks and handwaving to be actually relevant (because rolling Arete for all magic sharply limits dicepools compared to the shenanigans you can get up to by stacking Attribue+Skill rolls) and the Denarians are also too inconsistent in shown power to make any good mechanical approximation of them and believe me I've tried it different ways.

I don't believe in the ability of the setting to personally challenge Molly under the current mechanics, without breaking SoD in several other directions by making things too overpowered against things that are not Molly. And while I trust in DP's ability to make the occasional non-combat challenge, it's still a clear pattern that a good part of his challenges and stories are meant to include relevant combat.
 
Kinda weird idea, @DragonParadox but since we have effectively broken the regular systems for WoD, how about CkII/III style?

Molly can solve almost anything in front of her, so a game that is primarily concerned with the allocation of actions seems like a solution?
Also some abstraction would fix some broken combos that make encounters, social or combat, too easy.

A system in that direction could also let the Five Courts shine more than as a source of occasional reinforcements.

Edit: ALso it lets us make use of other assets, like the Film Studio, in some minor manner, instead of banishing it the realm of abstract ownership maybe.

I'd say we have left small adventures behind us pretty clearly.

Not sure where else to go.
I have not been really active in this quest since the previous arc, so I probably don't have any leg to stand on, but this is why I was opposed to unlocking Kingdom charm before the final stages of the quest. We could have faced a lot of problems in resources and personnel that are trivialised now, and that could have been a great opportunity for adventures for Molly and her gang.
If we turn this into another planquest, it will be a great loss, because Dresden Files are not suitable setting for this and we will loose all the best aspects of the Exalted and WoD systems.
 
Okay, I guess I'll just stay silent on this then.

I really don't want to ruin this for everyone or anything like that, maybe the quest doesn't need to be saved by any big change and I'm sorry if it looks like I'm trying to push this as some inevitability.
I'm not the QM after all, just occasionally helping with some design.

So I'll just keep my hands of the mechanics and enjoy this quest as a story.
 
The vote has not moved in twelve hours or so and we've already had two interludes, time to wrap it up

Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jun 5, 2024 at 6:52 AM, finished with 640 posts and 29 votes.

  • [X] Plan: courtly debut v2
    -[X] Molly, 37 XP
    --[X]Splintered Gale Incarnation: 20xp
    --[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
    --[X] Emergency Minion Hologram, 4 XP
    --[X] Digital Possessions Management, 4XP
    --[X] Shadow Spite Curse (••), 6 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 14 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Spirit, 3 XP
    --[X] Excellency: Wits, 3 XP
    --[X] Akashic Root Methodology (••), 6 XP
    --[X]Occult 2: 2xp
    -[X] Lash, 12 XP
    --[X] Lore of Humanity 1, 7 XP
    --[X] Lore of Light 2. 5 XP
    --[X]Investment: Fomor Power: Numbing 1: +3HL + wound penalty negation [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
    --[X]Investment: Special Advantage 6: Regrowth: [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
    --[X]Investment: Special Advantage 5: Soak Aggravated Damage [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
    -[X] Olivia, 12 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Fae, 3 XP
    --[X] Psychoportation 3, 6 XP
    [X]Plan Shadow Clones
    -[X]Molly: 40xp
    --[X]Splintered Gale Incarnation: 20xp
    --[X]Sandstrike Blast: 8xp
    --[X]Countermagic 2/4(Human + Vampire): 6xp
    --[X]Ox-Body Technique 3: 3xp
    --[X]By Rage Recast 3: Swift Stride: 3xp
    --[X]Lash raise Stamina to 5
    --[X]Remaining Bank: 1xp
    -[X]Lash: 11xp
    --[X]Investment: Fomor Power: Numbing 1: +3HL + wound penalty negation [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
    --[X]Investment: Special Advantage 6: Regrowth: [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
    --[X]Investment: Special Advantage 5: Soak Aggravated Damage [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
    --[X]Lore of Light 2: Bend Light: 5 XP
    --[X]Occult Aptitude: 3XP
    --[X]Countermagic 1/4(Spirit): 3xp
    -[X]Lydia: 11xp + Molly 1
    --[X]Occult 2: 2xp
    --[X]Ox-Body 4: 3xp
    --[X]Devil Fighter/Mo Kung 2: Dragon Speed: 4xp
    --[X]Countermagic 1/4 (Fae): 3xp
    -[X]Olivia: 11xp
    --[X]Bank XP
    [X]Plan Organizations, Pro and Con
    -[X]Molly: 40xp
    --[X]Splintered Gale Incarnation: 20xp
    --[X]Endless Torment Emanation: 12xp
    --[X]Countermagic 2/4(Human + Vampire): 6xp
    --[X]Lash raise Stamina to 5
    --[X]Bank 2 xp
    -[X]Lash: 11xp
    --[X]Investment: Fomor Power: Numbing 1: +3HL + wound penalty negation [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
    --[X]Investment: Special Advantage 6: Regrowth: [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
    --[X]Investment: Special Advantage 5: Soak Aggravated Damage [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
    --[X]Lore of Light 2: Bend Light: 5 XP
    --[X]Occult Aptitude: 3XP
    --[X]Countermagic 1/4(Spirit): 3xp
    -[X]Lydia: 11xp + Molly 1
    --[X]Occult 2: 2xp
    --[X]Ox-Body 4: 3xp
    --[X]Devil Fighter/Mo Kung 2: Dragon Speed: 4xp
    --[X]Countermagic 1/4 (Fae): 3xp
    -[X]Olivia: 11xp
    --[X]Bank XP
    [X] Plan Rounding out and Clones
    -[X] Molly (41 XP) 1 XP Banked
    --[X] Increase Craft to 5 Dots (4 XP)
    --[X] Increase Academics to 2 Dots (2 XP)
    --[X] Increase Leadership to 4 Dots (3 XP)
    --[X] Increase Alchemy to 5 Dot (12 XP)
    --[X] Buy Mana Manipulation to 3 Dots (7 XP)
    --[X]Splintered Gale Incarnation: 20xp
    --[X]Lash raise Stamina to 5
    -[X]Lash: 11xp
    --[X]Investment: Fomor Power: Numbing 1: +3HL + wound penalty negation [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
    --[X]Investment: Special Advantage 6: Regrowth: [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
    --[X]Investment: Special Advantage 5: Soak Aggravated Damage [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
    --[X]Lore of Light 2: Bend Light: 5 XP
    --[X]Occult Aptitude: 3XP
    --[X]Countermagic 1/4(Spirit): 3xp
    -[X]Lydia: 11xp + Molly 1
    --[X]Occult 2: 2xp
    --[X]Ox-Body 4: 3xp
    --[X]Devil Fighter/Mo Kung 2: Dragon Speed: 4xp
    --[X]Countermagic 1/4 (Fae): 3xp
    -[X]Olivia: 11xp
    --[X]Bank XP
    [X] Plan Combat not important
    -[X]Molly 42 XP spent
    --[X]Splintered Gale Incarnation: 20xp
    --[X]Verdant Emptiness Endowment (•••••) 20 XP
    --[X] Prayer Eating (•) 2XP
    -[X]Lydia 9 Xp spent and 2 XP banked
    --[X]Occult 2: 2xp
    --[X]Ox-Body 4: 3xp
    --[X]Devil Fighter/Mo Kung 2: Dragon Speed: 4xp
    -[X]Lash: 10xp spent 1 XP banked
    --[X] Buy down permeant torment by 1. 10 XP
    -[X]Olivia: 9xp bank 2 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
    --[X] Psychoportation 3, 6 XP
    [X] Plan Do Stuff
    -[X] Molly, 38 XP
    --[X]Splintered Gale Incarnation: 20xp
    --[X] Principle Invoking Onslaught (•••), 12 XP
    --[X] Shadow Spite Curse (••), 6 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 12 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Spirit, 3 XP
    --[X] Excellency: Wits, 3 XP
    --[X] Akashic Root Methodology (••), 6 XP
    -[X] Lash, 12 XP
    --[X] Lore of Humanity 1, 7 XP
    --[X] Lore of Light 2. 5 XP
    -[X] Olivia, 12 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Fae, 3 XP
    --[X] Psychoportation 3, 6 XP
    [X] Plan: courtly debut v1
    -[X] Molly, 38 XP
    --[X]Splintered Gale Incarnation: 20xp
    --[X] Treading the Golden Path, 4 XP
    --[X] Five Paths, One Ring, 4 XP
    --[X] Digital Possessions Management, 4XP
    --[X] Shadow Spite Curse (••), 6 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 12 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Spirit, 3 XP
    --[X] Excellency: Wits, 3 XP
    --[X] Akashic Root Methodology (••), 6 XP
    -[X] Lash, 12 XP
    --[X] Lore of Humanity 1, 7 XP
    --[X] Lore of Light 2. 5 XP
    --[X]Investment: Fomor Power: Numbing 1: +3HL + wound penalty negation [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
    --[X]Investment: Special Advantage 6: Regrowth: [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
    --[X]Investment: Special Advantage 5: Soak Aggravated Damage [Lore of Flesh 5, permanent]
    -[X] Olivia, 12 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Human, 3 XP
    --[X] Counterspell: Fae, 3 XP
    --[X] Psychoportation 3, 6 XP
    [X] Abstain
 
I have not been really active in this quest since the previous arc, so I probably don't have any leg to stand on, but this is why I was opposed to unlocking Kingdom charm before the final stages of the quest. We could have faced a lot of problems in resources and personnel that are trivialised now, and that could have been a great opportunity for adventures for Molly and her gang.
If we turn this into another planquest, it will be a great loss, because Dresden Files are not suitable setting for this and we will loose all the best aspects of the Exalted and WoD systems.
Absolutely agree, I honestly almost droped this quest when Molly got her own super-advanced kingdom. Luckly the QM was able to keep it from overwhealming the setting and the Quest. But in general I prefer this Quest to stay centered on Mollies adventures rather than a CK2 style kingdom builder. I like CK2 Quests but they need a compleatly different aproach and are not somethin you can easly transistion into
 
Possible, but Nemesis would permanently dimish itself and in exchange get a mortal agent who is new to his powers, not yet skilled or experienced and most critically might not be interested in doing Nemesis' will.
And can't be forced to, since most Exaltations have a mental defense that works even against that thing.

So it would be a bad investment.
Even in their own source materiel gods couldn't just shit out Exigents. Sol had to give them sparks to imprint their power on.

I maintain everything about them is stupid and exists to indulge the most chuuni impulse of Exalted's fan base, which is really saying something. Even they at least have a throttle beyond random gods feeling like sacrificing power.
 
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