Gems in the Wastes (Exalted/Warhammer Fantasy/CK2)

I have to write something, for a quest. I'll pull up some quotes from that Second Edition Malfeas book as soon as I am done. In the meantime though can you think of any instance of a demon betraying their patron? Not try to change their patron or fight other demons? Actively work against the goal of freeing themselves say.
Look at the explicit existence of a charm that turns demons into gods that has to be done via their free will. Yeah no, your talking out of your ass I know for a fact Second Edition Malfeas book also backs me up on this. End of Darkness if you want the charm name DragonParadox, a Sideral charm.
 
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Alright guys, please calm down the arguments. I'd rather the quest not get bogged down with tempers. We haven't even finished character creation, I think it's a bit early to have back and forths like this.
 
@DragonParadox This isn't for the sake of argument but for the sake of proving I am being truthful. It's End of Darkness, from Glories of the Most High Madiens. Sideral charm, on page 36.
Found it and you are right it does say consenting, I did not mean to imply you were lying, sorry if that is how I came across. It also says though that the demon is rather dramatically changed as it is pulled from the soul Hierarchy of the Yozis as though it had been killed with spirit killing. Despite being able to consent in that moment and be changed by a charm we do not have I think demons should be treated as agents of their masters first and everything else second. The realm does a lot of screwed up things, but I do not think keeping the demons away from the populace is one of them given how Yozi cults usually work out.
(You did come off as if I was lying which was my main issue. )
I honestly disagree outright tho, demons have to have free will for a list of reasons. Some are still agents of their masters first and everything else second. But that is an explicitly their choice. Demons have the free will to choose, that is possible even without that charm. That charm does nothing to the demon but it says, it doesn't make them consent or give them the ability to consent. Also, demon cults can be a lot of things, some of them even good things. But just saying that are all evil seems reductive given how much demons can do and be. Also, my core idea was worship to make use of them. But my main point here, and something your argument agrees on even if you don't realize it. A demon has to consent, something that they wouldn't be able to do if they were always agents of their masters first.
@DragonParadox This isn't for the sake of argument but for the sake of proving I am being truthful. It's End of Darkness, from Glories of the Most High Madiens. Sideral charm, on page 36.
Found it and you are right it does say consenting, I did not mean to imply you were lying, sorry if that is how I came across. It also says though that the demon is rather dramatically changed as it is pulled from the soul Hierarchy of the Yozis as though it had been killed with spirit killing. Despite being able to consent in that moment and be changed by a charm we do not have I think demons should be treated as agents of their masters first and everything else second. The realm does a lot of screwed up things, but I do not think keeping the demons away from the populace is one of them given how Yozi cults usually work out.
(You did come off as if I was lying which was my main issue. )
I honestly disagree outright tho, demons have to have free will for a list of reasons. Some are still agents of their masters first and everything else second. But that is an explicitly their choice. Demons have the free will to choose, that is possible even without that charm. That charm does nothing to the demon but it says, it doesn't make them consent or give them the ability to consent. Also, demon cults can be a lot of things, some of them even good things. But just saying that are all evil seems reductive given how much demons can do and be. Also, my core idea was worship to make use of them. But my main point here, and something your argument agrees on even if you don't realize it. A demon has to consent, something that they wouldn't be able to do if they were always agents of their masters first.

That fits more for the thread, and under an Exalted it's very easy to have not a yozi cult as you keep saying. Which is something I have said more then once I didn't want. I said demon cult, one mainly for helping demons regain their forms.


Yes because they do not understand humans, this is the point in 2e. Demons do not understand human biology half the time. They don't know humans have needs. They can be taught rather explicitly.
The thing is if you are directing faith at a demon, especially a Second Circle, it is going to talk about what it is to the morals you persuaded to worship it Humans want to know the nature of their gods. This is that Immaculate thing again, regulating Faith, but without the manpower the Immaculates have and with the added issue that the demon might kill its worshipers on accident
Let us take this back the to thread given if we are going to talk about that aspect. Mainly because it involved aspects of it. Mainly your point here fails falt to me given that is even more reason to have piety not be our lowest stat.
Sure, do you want to quote all the stuff on here for the thread? Because otherwise a people reading through are going to be confused.
Likely for the best, yeah give me a second to grab it all.

My main point stands even more if we want the Faith done right, we have to have a high piety stat to help deal with it, which is something hardly any plan does given how most want to make it the low stat which is a frankly horrible idea in my view. Demons and Gods alike, respect piety and we also have to consider we are also in 40k. The gods will not fully play by the normal Exalted rule which means that is something to consider and think about. Which means it's important to be able to interact with them. If they were just Exaltd gods maybe diplomacy would work, but even then I would prefer having piety.
 
My main point stands even more if we want the Faith done right, we have to have a high piety stat to help deal with it, which is something hardly any plan does given how most want to make it the low stat which is a frankly horrible idea in my view. Demons and Gods alike, respect piety and we also have to consider we are also in 40k. The gods will not fully play by the normal Exalted rule which means that is something to consider and think about. Which means it's important to be able to interact with them. If they were just Exaltd gods maybe diplomacy would work, but even then I would prefer having piety.

Per the tags we are in Fantasy not 40K, way less grim, but not really the main point.

As one of the Solar Exalted Sango is a being of cosmic perfection in whatever he does, but he does have some guidelines about where he is meant to advance, he is a Twilight not a Zenith, a magician and wondersmith not a priest. Happily there is a learning based way to engage with demons and that is Sorcery based on the Surrender Oaths.

As for the local gods we are far enough north that we're probably in Norsca, in which case we will have to beat the Chaos out of most of the locals until they stop worshiping things that want to eat their souls... or we are in Kislev wich is a land full of spirits we can definitely diplomance, the Hags do it all the time.
 
Per the tags we are in Fantasy not 40K, way less grim, but not really the main point.
40k was a fuck on my end, sorry about that. My main point from that stands.
As one of the Solar Exalted Sango is a being of cosmic perfection in whatever he does, but he does have some guidelines about where he is meant to advance, he is a Twilight not a Zenith, a magician and wondersmith not a priest. Happily there is a learning based way to engage with demons and that is Sorcery based on the Surrender Oaths.

As for the local gods we are far enough north that we're probably in Norsca, in which case we will have to beat the Chaos out of most of the locals until they stop worshiping things that want to eat their souls... or we are in Kislev wich is a land full of spirits we can definitely diplomance, the Hags do it all the time.
Demons also can be way more useful when you do both, Exalted may have their main role but they can be more than that. As door, as for the second bit. No way we aren't going to go unnoticed given where we are. If we are in the waste, we are going to get attention from something other then just chaos. And if we are in Kislev we have a lot of gods that we are going to have to deal with, they have more then just spirits
 
40k was a fuck on my end, sorry about that. My main point from that stands.

Demons also can be way more useful when you do both, Exalted may have their main role but they can be more than that. As door, as for the second bit. No way we aren't going to go unnoticed given where we are. If we are in the waste, we are going to get attention from something other then just chaos. And if we are in Kislev we have a lot of gods that we are going to have to deal with, they have more then just spirits

The thing is we do not have to engage with every god or take every single path of demonic rapprochement, that is the core of my argument. We should specialize where we can since time and skills are both limited. So since we already have good learning and most of that piety can do can also be done with learning focus on that.
 
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The thing is we do not have to engage with every god or take every single path of demonic rapprochement, that is the core of my argument. We should specialize where we can since time and skills are both limited.Sso since we already have good learning and most of that piety can do can also be done with learning focus on that.
It really can't is the issue, like let me go grab it. Because I feel you don't recall the piety links from the first page.

  • You work to create not just homes and structures, but shrines to the various divinities (hence why its Piety).
THIS, Piety is more than just that. It also working on infrastructure on top of that.
 
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It really can't is the issue, like let me go grab it. Because I feel you don't recall the piety links from the first page.

  • You work to create not just homes and structures, but shrines to the various divinities (hence why its Piety).
THIS, Piety is more than just that. It also working on infrastructure on top of that.

I agree, but there are things in Exalted as much as Warhammer which can be interacted with as gods (hence piety) or just as spirits (hence learning). There is also another issue with asking the populace to worship demons, they are kind of scary and we are starting at 3/10 popularity from being a Solar. Now of course eventually we can pull that number up and then get them to worship at the demon shrine, deal with any issues the inhumanity of the demon may cause etc..

Personally I would rather learn how to shove a minor leyline into the demon to get them to materialize more often, the Copper Spider Way. ;)
 
I agree, but there are things in Exalted as much as Warhammer which can be interacted with as gods (hence piety) or just as spirits (hence learning). There is also another issue with asking the populace to worship demons, they are kind of scary and we are starting at 3/10 popularity from being a Solar. Now of course eventually we can pull that number up and then get them to worship at the demon shrine, deal with any issues the inhumanity of the demon may cause etc..
Demons are kind of easy if we are given examples of fighting and proving their worth. Blood Apes are worth it for a list of reasons, but more than that. Demons can learn to be more about humanity to make them more able to deal with humanity. Something that can be done, a part of their inhumanity is they know nothing on humanity.
 
Demons are kind of easy if we are given examples of fighting and proving their worth. Blood Apes are worth it for a list of reasons, but more than that. Demons can learn to be more about humanity to make them more able to deal with humanity. Something that can be done, a part of their inhumanity is they know nothing on humanity.

I do not think it would be that easy, there are a lot of points of friction. Just as an example we know very little about what the native religion of the city was. What do the current priests we have with us think about worshiping things out of Malfeas?
 
Admittedly not sure yet. If I remember correctly Tiger Warrior Training is only a week's worth of time per squad? With turns taking 3 months, that's a lot of potential squads that can be upgraded. I might put a limit on it in the form of "Sango has to do refresher courses with the troops every so often, restricting how many squads he can keep re-training at once."
That is not part of the charm, however. Part of the allure of being a Solar is being able to do crazy stunts like turning an entire city into elite soldiers given time.

That said, keeping highly elite soldiers loyal will be important, and given we start with a 3/10 in peasant opinion, that makes it risky to recruit many of them.
 
Demons do not have free will, the Yozis have a bad history with free will, they would never make something that could betray them again. The reasons demons are willing to make deals, the reason sorcery works on them at all is the Surrender Oaths.
While they are limited in a number of ways, demons can still make choices. They are admittedly constrained by their nature to a strong degree, but compared to a daemon it is night and day.
 
Currently, Magic Revolution is winning, and Piety is definitely our worst stat, with Intrigue being second worst, leaving Diplomacy and Stewardship tied for 'middle of the road' stats, but Diplomacy probably higher due to the +1 'teaching magic' bonus.

So our stat priority is currently looking something like this:

Learning
Combat
Martial
Diplomacy
Stewardship
Intrigue
Piety

Which actually looks pretty good to me for a sorcerer-king, especially given the Solar ability to be at least decent at everything.
 
[X] Plan: Solars and Demons
-[X] Secrets and hidden meanings slipped past you like water around rocks (Intrigue)
-[X] Sword (Melee)
-[X] Compassion
-[X] become overwhelming (+1)
-[X] You were able to instruct a class of five random children from all walks of life, with all of them becoming Sorcerers in their own right. (Occult)
- [x] First Circle Demon
-[X] Second Circle Demon

Mainly voting for this to ensure access to demons, and I also prefer the Occult benefit of having 5 more Sorcerers on hand.
 
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Mainly voting for this to ensure access to demons, and I also prefer the Occult benefit of having 5 more Sorcerers on hand.
...I was about to say that wasn't part of the benefits you gained from that option, but then again, you keep the antibiotic recipe from the Medicine path and presumably at least a little stock of it, so... I'll compromise and say that you'll get 1 of the five by default, and depending on options you select in the next part, you might have more of that inaugural class remaining, since they could potentially have died in the escape from Uluiru. Of course, now I need to think of something for the Lore path to even it out as well.
 
...I was about to say that wasn't part of the benefits you gained from that option, but then again, you keep the antibiotic recipe from the Medicine path and presumably at least a little stock of it, so... I'll compromise and say that you'll get 1 of the five by default, and depending on options you select in the next part, you might have more of that inaugural class remaining, since they could potentially have died in the escape from Uluiru. Of course, now I need to think of something for the Lore path to even it out as well.
One thing that does come to mind, to account for, assuming that Demon Summoning is on the table to the students, it is feasible (although not without the good chance to go badly) to have a number of task-bound 1cd demons brought about by our students and made to serve us. Else sorry for presuming that, I've only recently entered the thread and haven't read everything yet to be up to date.


Otherwise, seeing as "Summon Second Circle" seem be favored as part of our spell-list, I'd thought I'd share the Green Cherry Demonomicon that's used in Kerisgame, aka Ascensions and Transgressions: the Tales of Keris Dulmeadokht, in case you wanted any additional ones.
 
@Critian Caceorte what do you think of demons? And know of their deep and esoteric lore.

They have all kinds of crazy bullshit but... do you know it? Do you want to engage with it?

Otherwise, seeing as "Summon Second Circle" seem be favored as part of our spell-list, I'd thought I'd share the Green Cherry Demonomicon that's used in Kerisgame, aka Ascensions and Transgressions: the Tales of Keris Dulmeadokht, in case you wanted any additional ones.
Interesting but why share purely homebrew demons as a first go?
 
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@Critian Caceorte what do you think of demons? And know of their deep and esoteric lore.

They have all kinds of crazy bullshit but... do you know it? Do you want to engage with it?
If you mean "Do I know about their whole deal in general," then yes. If you mean "how many demons do I know," then admittedly not very many. It's not been something I've engaged a lot with in my games in the past.

Something I should note for everyone picking 2nd Circle Demon as their control spell: Those can only be summoned on nights of the New Moon. Warhammer Fantasy has 2 Moons. That's going to affect how many 2nd Circles you can summon, at least early on. And that's not even getting into how the setting you're entering doesn't have Calibration as a thing. What I'm saying is that the purely demon summoning route won't always be the best option.
 
Something I should note for everyone picking 2nd Circle Demon as their control spell: Those can only be summoned on nights of the New Moon. Warhammer Fantasy has 2 Moons. That's going to affect how many 2nd Circles you can summon, at least early on. And that's not even getting into how the setting you're entering doesn't have Calibration as a thing. What I'm saying is that the purely demon summoning route won't always be the best option.
It will be interesting for sure. But 2nd Circle is the sort of thing I think we'd see our guy having taken before all this mess.
 
[X] Plan: Solars and Demons

eh, the grapple bonus REALLY isnt worth much to us, but I like first circle demons way better than second circle demons.
 
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