Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

DragonParadox said:

Not at all, he would have to change people to something dramatically and unrecognizably themselves. The problem is not with giving someone another point of DEX, it is with turning people into frogs.

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Is it? I would think it's something akin to a gateway drug of the law breaking, in the same way that curing Rosie of her drug addiction was a gateway drug to Molly's potential army of mind-controlled slaves.

On the other hand, they are consenting, enthusiastically even... I am probably wrong.

Yog said:

Is it? I would think it's something akin to a gateway drug of the law breaking, in the same way that curing Rosie of her drug addiction was a gateway drug to Molly's potential army of mind-controlled slaves.

On the other hand, they are consenting, enthusiastically even... I am probably wrong.

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I mean, he said (thought) that his stuff didn't really work on others.

DragonParadox said:

, and anyway they barely seemed to work for other people,

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So he doesn't seem likely to break the Law, even if he wanted to.

DragonParadox said:

his personal interpretation of Jim Carrey hair and an awkward smile tries to hang on to the least of one Labrador, one Husky and one German Shepherd.

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Actually, now that I looked up the stats for animals in V20 and M20, for Lydia's potential companions, I'll say mechanically 3 large dogs (or more precisely one medium sized dog, two large ones) are a hell of a lot better personal defense than anything a low-level hedgemage can do with alchemy, hellfire, shadow-weaving or anything else I can currently think of, except maybe Psychic Invisibility like Olivia has.

Sure, a few un-augmented dogs don't matter on the level Molly is fighting, but for any Sorcerer, young Ghoul, Neonate Vampire or overconfident minor fey, those things will mess you up.

Smart move of him, if they are for personal protection, not just because he likes dogs.

Yog said:

Is it? I would think it's something akin to a gateway drug of the law breaking, in the same way that curing Rosie of her drug addiction was a gateway drug to Molly's potential army of mind-controlled slaves.

On the other hand, they are consenting, enthusiastically even... I am probably wrong.

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Rosie was not an entrance drug, it was 'doing the thing'. A particularly zealous warden might see enhancing others as similar to doing necromancy on animals, but even then... there is a wide conceptual gap between those things. The point of not transforming others is the violation of the sanctify of their being, they have to become less themselves.

[X] Present yourself as a member of the Order of the Cauldron investigating events related to incidents of spontaneous human combustion, and other oddities, which occurred last year. If he's willing to share what he knows, along with any other information related to the supernatural in the area, we can make it worth his trouble.
-[X] "It's always interesting to meet a fellow alchemist. There are a few among the Order who could claim some some talent in the art of brewing, but it's fair to say I have the most expertise in that regard. I might be convinced to part with a recipe if your information proves helpful."
-[X] Empathy excellency

The white council impersonation strikes me as an especially bad idea because we may want to work with Karl extensively in the future. Part of what makes me think that is that the guy has many doggos and deeply regrets not helping his grandfather, yes... But I think it's worth considering that this is not the last we're going to see of Boston and we don't want to alienate potential allies.

It's a bit of a risk to trust him more rather than lie to him, but what exactly are we amassing all this power in terms of survivability for if not to take risks when the reward is worth it?

Artemis1992 said:

Actually, now that I looked up the stats for animals in V20 and M20, for Lydia's potential companions, I'll say mechanically 3 large dogs (or more precisely one medium sized dog, two large ones) are a hell of a lot better personal defense than anything a low-level hedgemage can do with alchemy, hellfire, shadow-weaving or anything else I can currently think of, except maybe Psychic Invisibility like Olivia has.

Sure, a few un-augmented dogs don't matter on the level Molly is fighting, but for any Sorcerer, young Ghoul, Neonate Vampire or overconfident minor fey, those things will mess you up.

Smart move of him, if they are for personal protection, not just because he likes dogs.

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And with alchemy, they might be augmented dogs, if they've been on a regimen of drugs designed to improve their development.

Time to involve Lydia in dogfighting! Not content with mere mundane canines, Molly shall magically transform and alchemically drug all of Lydia's prospective doggies until they become hulking bestial engines of rage! 🐶

Alratan said:

And with alchemy, they might be augmented dogs, if they've been on a regimen of drugs designed to improve their development.

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Well for that it's worth those dogs do look particularly healthy, shinny coats, bright eyes, energetic without seeming jittery, the works.

[X] Present yourself as a member of the Order of the Cauldron investigating events related to incidents of spontaneous human combustion, and other oddities, which occurred last year. If he's willing to share what he knows, along with any other information related to the supernatural in the area, we can make it worth his trouble.
-[X] "It's always interesting to meet a fellow alchemist. There are a few among the Order who could claim some some talent in the art of brewing, but it's fair to say I have the most expertise in that regard. I might be convinced to part with a recipe if your information proves helpful."
-[X] Empathy excellency

Worst case scenario, we lull him into false sense of security for better effect when Suddenly Infernal Exalted.

So what exactly are we looking for here? We have more to work with when doing personal investigations, but the goal changes the angle we approach from.

Are we recruiting? Looking for details of a dead plot? Stealing the well? Are we committing to a local presence to exploit this resource?

Showing up and playing hardball seems counterproductive in all the paths I see. If we just want to pump him for information we can ask questions on the stuff we care about using Karl and his dogs. If we're looking to move into town in any capacity having a local tainting our reputation would be a pain to clean up. If we're actively recruiting then it'd self evidently sour our working relationship.

fictionfan said:

Which is of course interesting when Molly disguises herself as normal Molly because she is reflecting the image in the principle's eye. A reflection of a reflection, but still made perfectly.

How well can BMI copy the functionality of Sidereal Dynamic Larping? If Molly say wants to disguise herself as a Police officer. Can she copy someone's idea of a police officer?

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This is firmly into the territory of needing a ruling from DP. Assuming my speculation so far has been roughly on course I don't think it works like that.

When Molly is making herself look mortal is either looking at the past or imagining a fiction of herself to airbrush over her true appearance.

It's not like dynamic larping at all because it generates specific image at our request. If we want to fit someone's image of a wizard, a cop, or whatever else it's on us to do the legwork to determine what that would look like, then angle our mirror in that direction to catch the image we want.

Yog said:

Now, the options gives... We are not here on White Council's behalf, and telling him we are investigating might spook him.

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Also a diplomatic issue. The council doesn't like impersonators, but one or two minor rumors mostly aren't going to make them move. Molly has been presenting herself as a state actor to them in a lot of ways though, which changes the calculus.

We can't have it both ways on this; Molly doesn't have to be a state actor at all times in all ways, but when invoking organizational authority she most certainly is.

fictionfan said:

Well at least we confirmed that he is actually a practitioner an alchemist even. Also we now know about a shame button we can hammer on if we ever want to drive him to action.

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Shame is not a universal lever, or even a useful angle in many situations. The charm is nice, but situational like TLF is. When it matters it really matters, but the rest of the time it's not terribly relevant.

So, talking about Olivia, how can we help her achieve her goals? She has motivations which she pursues, and we could probably offer support. The goal of better magical law enforcement (or, to be more broad, of moving magical human society to some semblance of modernity as opposed to wild west it's at now) is a noble one. I am guessing we could do the following relatively simply:
1) Put her in contact with SI, and Alphas, ie the local militia type groups that do street level supernatural crime handling. Possibly enhance both with IDU. If there's a canine unit attached to SI, enhance the dogs. Speaking of dogs, we should probably offer enhancements to pets of Cauldron members, to turn them into more effective home defenders.
2) Get law books from the Courts for her, and probably Murphy (I forget, did we do something like this for Christmas?) ir order to help set up more efficient policing
3) Set her up with some resources to start doing stuff
4) At some point soonish spend an AP on Order of Cauldron / Paranet setup.

We probably don't have time in the next two months, but after that it might be viable. We have school, finding new dwelling for Rosie, crafting for Archive and others as obligations next month. The three remaining things are most likely to be taken by White Council traitor purge, solar and abyssal exaltation handling (probably the prep. stage only), and helping Lydia find a powerful dog to further boost or meeting the Alphas. The month after that we have School, horror-con (if I remember correctly), possibly remains of crafting debt to handle, possibly continuation of exaltation handling, probably Flick's expedition (either setup or the whole mission, if it can even be organized so swiftly), and maybe we get the last slot free. We have a rather packed schedule with lots of stuff we can't delay (much).

BronzeTongue said:

So what exactly are we looking for here? We have more to work with when doing personal investigations, but the goal changes the angle we approach from.

Are we recruiting? Looking for details of a dead plot? Stealing the well? Are we committing to a local presence to exploit this resource?

Showing up and playing hardball seems counterproductive in all the paths I see. If we just want to pump him for information we can ask questions on the stuff we care about using Karl and his dogs. If we're looking to move into town in any capacity having a local tainting our reputation would be a pain to clean up. If we're actively recruiting then it'd self evidently sour our working relationship.

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Well, personally I am here for the information, and if there is something nefarious going on, then either helping the guy, or bringing him to (non-lethal most likely) justice. I definitely was a soft sell first, as a setup for cauldron's expansion into the area and transformation into the paranet.

Maybe talk shop with him about alchemy?

fictionfan said:

Which is of course interesting when Molly disguises herself as normal Molly because she is reflecting the image in the principle's eye. A reflection of a reflection, but still made perfectly.

How well can BMI copy the functionality of Sidereal Dynamic Larping? If Molly say wants to disguise herself as a Police officer. Can she copy someone's idea of a police officer?

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Not at all unfortunately. You can disguise Molly to look any person real or imagined that she can clearly visualize. So say you are trying to take on the guise of a police officer, she would need some clear idea of what a cop looks like in whatever area she's in and then take it on. A sidereal with Dynamic Larping would just pull out the conceptual Police Mask and let destiny handle the rest.

Wait, didn't we buy alchemy 4 in the last exp spend vote?

I don't see it on the sheet, and we didn't pick recipes for it. Do we not get those without additional study or did it just get lost in the shuffle?

Yog said:

So, talking about Olivia, how can we help her achieve her goals?

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She works for us, so I'd prefer if we started her with something more in house to get her feet under her. She also needs some exposure to things so that she gets a better idea of what the environment she's getting into is like.

I think it'd be interesting to have her work with the Jade Dogs organizing community security services for the Ordo.

People to call for a ride home, or when you think there might be trouble so they can get ahead of it instead of waiting till you need to run. Most issues they have would be unhappy to encounter 2 armed ghouls with a sniper on the nearest roof.

In particular I want her to get some experience with nonhumans as people so she doesn't go in trigger happy and kill someone she didn't need to.

Remember that minor talents pretty significantly other people who aren't human as a result of how commonly they get eaten or worse by them. Those attitudes aren't going to just go away now that she has power, and even if they made sense for minor talents to hold it doesn't make them right or the consequences of acting on them irrelevant.

Yog said:

Well, personally I am here for the information, and if there is something nefarious going on, then either helping the guy, or bringing him to (non-lethal most likely) justice. I definitely was a soft sell first, as a setup for cauldron's expansion into the area and transformation into the paranet.

Maybe talk shop with him about alchemy?

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That works, I just want to get us all on the same page. He seems like a good potential Ordo recruit and point of contact as we move into the area, but that assumes we're currently planning to do that.

BronzeTongue said:

Wait, didn't we buy alchemy 4 in the last exp spend vote?

I don't see it on the sheet, and we didn't pick recipes for it. Do we not get those without additional study or did it just get lost in the shuffle?

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Yep, we did. Pretty sure it got lost in the shuffle of the new arc.

BronzeTongue said:

Wait, didn't we buy alchemy 4 in the last exp spend vote?

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The Alchemy is coming up soon, I wanted to weave it into the narrative instead of just appearing in Molly's head.

Good plan all around. And yeah as usual NWS is very situational. Should probably save it for people we know are enemies in future.

[X] Present yourself as a member of the Order of the Cauldron investigating events related to incidents of spontaneous human combustion, and other oddities, which occurred last year. If he's willing to share what he knows, along with any other information related to the supernatural in the area, we can make it worth his trouble.
-[X] "It's always interesting to meet a fellow alchemist. There are a few among the Order who could claim some some talent in the art of brewing, but it's fair to say I have the most expertise in that regard. I might be convinced to part with a recipe if your information proves helpful."
-[X] Empathy excellency

BoredMan said:

Good plan all around. And yeah as usual NWS is very situational. Should probably save it for people we know are enemies in future.

[X] Present yourself as a member of the Order of the Cauldron investigating events related to incidents of spontaneous human combustion, and other oddities, which occurred last year. If he's willing to share what he knows, along with any other information related to the supernatural in the area, we can make it worth his trouble.
-[X] "It's always interesting to meet a fellow alchemist. There are a few among the Order who could claim some some talent in the art of brewing, but it's fair to say I have the most expertise in that regard. I might be convinced to part with a recipe if your information proves helpful."
-[X] Empathy excellency

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There are times when it's very beneficial, but I think it comes down to a judgment call about the target's character. I wouldn't say it's an enemy only thing, but it's definitely not useful as a general social charm.

BronzeTongue said:

Wait, didn't we buy alchemy 4 in the last exp spend vote?

I don't see it on the sheet, and we didn't pick recipes for it. Do we not get those without additional study or did it just get lost in the shuffle?

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Yeah, we did, and we should start thinking about what recipes to get. Currently, I am settled on the prima metallum (crafting material that grants bonuses for stuff made with it), bezoar (the custom alchemical pill that you ingest and that gives you a limited amount of protection from poison for the next week) for 3 dot potions, and some manner of learning aid that significantly accelerates your ability to gain abilities for the 4 dot version. Not sure about others. A shapeshifting potion maybe? One that allows you to change how you look (shift into other humans) is 2 dots, so a 4 dot should allow a temporary transformation into non-human shapes. 4 dots is the domain of starting to slow aging by a factor of 10 and other such feats. Near grandmaster level.

BronzeTongue said:

She works for us, so I'd prefer if we started her with something more in house to get her feet under her. She also needs some exposure to things so that she gets a better idea of what the environment she's getting into is like.

I think it'd be interesting to have her work with the Jade Dogs organizing community security services for the Ordo.

People to call for a ride home, or when you think there might be trouble so they can get ahead of it instead of waiting till you need to run. Most issues they have would be unhappy to encounter 2 armed ghouls with a sniper on the nearest roof.

In particular I want her to get some experience with nonhumans as people so she doesn't go in trigger happy and kill someone she didn't need to.

Remember that minor talents pretty significantly other people who aren't human as a result of how commonly they get eaten or worse by them. Those attitudes aren't going to just go away now that she has power, and even if they made sense for minor talents to hold it doesn't make them right or the consequences of acting on them irrelevant.

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Jade Dogs are a very good idea, yes, I somehow forgot about them. And working on the integration of some non-humans with minor practitioners could also work.

BoredMan said:

Good plan all around. And yeah as usual NWS is very situational. Should probably save it for people we know are enemies in future.

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BronzeTongue said:

There are times when it's very beneficial, but I think it comes down to a judgment call about the target's character. I wouldn't say it's an enemy only thing, but it's definitely not useful as a general social charm.

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While we didn't get much actionable intelligence, we did get some measure of his character from NWS, which is also valuable.

Yog said:

One that allows you to change how you look (shift into other humans) is 2 dots, so a 4 dot should allow a temporary transformation into non-human shapes. 4 dots is the domain of starting to slow aging by a factor of 10 and other such feats. Near grandmaster level.

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Seems redundant. Sure we can use it for others, but it'd make more sense to expand our capabilities than double up on things.

Alchemy 4 is enough for a 2 dot Dex booster, combine with another recipe to grant two dot of vampire celerity, and you can turn anybody into a potent combatant with that combination.

How about a utility potion? Something like this: an "inventory" potion. You pour it over an object, and the object transforms into a small clear gem with an image of the original object inside. When the gem is crushed, the object is released back into its original form. Essentially sorta-kinda one-time use Dragonball capsules. The maximum size scales with either the potency of the potion (the number of successes) or the quantity of the potion used.

Yog said:

How about a utility potion? Something like this: an "inventory" potion. You pour it over an object, and the object transforms into a small clear gem with an image of the original object inside. When the gem is crushed, the object is released back into its original form. Essentially sorta-kinda one-time use Dragonball capsules. The maximum size scales with either the potency of the potion (the number of successes) or the quantity of the potion used.

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I would much rather homebrew a charm allowing us to store and pull stuff out of our Hell. The capsule seems a bit weird for alchemy and clumsy to use in practice.

Vote closed.

fictionfan said:

I would much rather homebrew a charm allowing us to store and pull stuff out of our Hell. The capsule seems a bit weird for alchemy and clumsy to use in practice.

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The other big advantage of alchemy is the ability to spread its benefits around, a storage potion like this would let us give others heavy artillery and perhaps even small vehicles to carry around in their pockets, which can be very invaluable.
Olivia with a pocket anti-tank rifle for emergencies sounds pretty sweet